Top ten overall , Top 5 in terms of peak play.
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Top ten overall , Top 5 in terms of peak play.
But right, Iverson exploding as an instant draft impact and dominating for 10 years leading the league in steals, points, and minutes MULTIPLE times and having an MVP makes him worse than wade
[QUOTE=Rubio2Gasol]Top ten overall[/QUOTE]
I'd say he squeezes in here. But 3rd greatest of all time for 4-5 years of good play is a STRETCH. Guys have done what he did for way longer stretches
[QUOTE=kNicKz]But right, Iverson exploding as an instant draft impact and dominating for 10 years leading the league in steals, points, and minutes MULTIPLE times and having an MVP makes him worse than wade[/QUOTE]
Iverson was a beast but wade is superior to him in nearly every way.
[QUOTE=kNicKz]I'd say he squeezes in here. But 3rd greatest of all time for 4-5 years of good play is a STRETCH. Guys have done what he did for way longer stretches[/QUOTE]
Can't rank jerry west so we'll leave him out for now. That said, no shooting guard other than Jordan was as good as wade in the finals, no shooting guards other than Jordan and Kobe were as good in the playoffs, and once again no shooting guards other than Jordan, Kobe, and arguably Mcgrady were as good in regular season. What else is there to discuss? Looks like we about covered everything.
:cheers:
[QUOTE=red1]
Can't rank jerry west so we'll leave him out for now. That said, no shooting guard other than Jordan was as good as wade in the finals, no shooting guards other than Jordan and Kobe were as good in the playoffs, and once again no shooting guards other than Jordan, Kobe, and arguably Mcgrady were as good in regular season. What else is there to discuss? Looks like we about covered everything.[/QUOTE]
Factor in Sam Jones as well.
And he hasn't been better than Kobe in finals.
Lol'd @ "hard time putting him over jerry west"
Unless you are at least 50 years old (which I highly doubt you are), shut the **** up. How could u ever make a comparison one way or the other if u didn't even see the other guy play. Stats could only tell so much.
[QUOTE=onhcetum]Lol'd @ "hard time putting him over jerry west"[/quote]
If you're going to try and take a shot @ me, don't be a [()] ... quote me directly.
And when did I claim to have seen West within context? I've seen clips, and read quite a bit about him.
I have studied the history of the game, and understand his historical impact. Thus my statement for acknowledging why others would or could have him ranked ahead of Wade, a player I have more intimate knowledge of within context.
Try again, hoe.
Personally he is no. 3 for me. Jordan and Kobe are clearly ahead of him, but I think he has a good case against West and Drexler. I have nothing against those who put him behind West, because its highly arguable.
5th behind ai
Wade will probably going down as the best slasher and shot blocking SG.
[QUOTE=Sharmer]Wade will probably going down as the best slasher and shot blocking SG.[/QUOTE]
He is already the best shot blocking SG this game has ever seen.
[QUOTE=LEFT4DEAD]He is already the best shot blocking SG this game has ever seen.[/QUOTE]
I've been watching the NBA since 1992 and his the best shot blocking SG I've seen, can't compare to 80s or 70s SG because I never watched, other than replays.
Borderline top 10 at best.. Dude is overrated.. If not for the refs help, no one in their right mind will put this guy in the top 10.. Refs made him the player he was.. Even tho Wade is still in his prime, old ass Ray Allen is still better than him by far while playing 6th man and lesser minute.. People who put him in the top 5 or even near the top 5 are clearly trolling and should not be taken seriously..
Wade was a better player than Drexler and Iverson, no question in my mind. He's at least 4th for me, but I'm hesitant to put him over West, and really don't think I can do it. Wade's high points may warrant it such as his amazing peak season in '09, or his finals MVP in '06, but his whole prime from '06-'11 just isn't quite enough for me. It doesn't help that he had another excellent season interrupted in '07 and then one completely wasted in 2008 at 26 years old.
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]I'll share my full opinions tomorrow. But just wanted to say. I really hope D-Wade looks at himself in the mirror, realizing he's still an elite player, and goes to work on that jumper, goes to work on that post game, goes to work on some footwork issues. This dude is only 30 years old, and if he can improve in all of those assets of his game, this guy can still have a good 3-4 years of great play and possibly a Finals MVP or Two.[/QUOTE]
The only thing Wade isn't doing is shooting with volume...blame Ray Allen.
His jumper is at '09 levels right now so pretty much best of his career.
Lebron is the only one that hasn't changed his offensive role on the team, apart from going a bit more in the post
[QUOTE=KOBE143]Borderline top 10 at best.. Dude is overrated.. If not for the refs help, no one in their right mind will put this guy in the top 10.. Refs made him the player he was.. Even tho Wade is still in his prime, old ass Ray Allen is still better than him by far while playing 6th man and lesser minute.. People who put him in the top 5 or even near the top 5 are clearly trolling and should not be taken seriously..[/QUOTE]
You mad cause his 2006 finals performance is better than any of Kobe's finals???:pimp:
AI has no case over Wade, Wade is not only the much better player peak wise but also better resum
01 - Michael Jordan
02 - Kobe Bryant
03 - Jerry West
04 - Dwyane Wade
05 - George Gervin
06 - Allen Iverson
07 - Clyde Drexler
08 - Sam Jones
Honorable mention: Pete Maravich, Hal Greer, Bill Sharman, Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Dennis Johnson, Earl Monroe, David Thompson, Joe Dumars, etc.
anyone who has him over west or iverson or tmac is a moran. not even close.
[QUOTE=LamarOdom]AI has no case over Wade, Wade is not only the much better player peak wise but also better resum
[QUOTE=Rysio]anyone who has him over west or iverson or tmac is a [B]moran[/B]. not even close.[/QUOTE]
:coleman:
[QUOTE=HiphopRelated]:coleman:[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/James_Moran_Official_Congressional_Portrait.jpg/220px-James_Moran_Official_Congressional_Portrait.jpg[/IMG]
if he wins another ring he's number three in my book after kobe and MJ
Jerry West was a killer but the SG position since the 90s has been one of the hardest positions to excel at in the NBA. There have been many GOOD SGs, but not many superstar calibre ones.
there was a resurgence of the two guard position in the early 2000s (TMac, Kobe, VC, AI, Houston, Ray Allen etc) but the one thing they all lacked (save Kobe, and to a certain extent Ray) is longevity and sustained elite levels of performance.
If Wade can find a way to reinvent his game w/o the explosiveness he used to have and will continue to lose, he will definitely be no. 3
on a side note i think reggie should be in everyone's top 10. one of the most clutch players ive ever seen play in my lifetime
[QUOTE=Rysio]anyone who has him over west or iverson or tmac is a moran. not even close.[/QUOTE]
:wtf:
[QUOTE=Burgz V2]if he wins another ring he's number three in my book after kobe and MJ
Jerry West was a killer but the SG position since the 90s has been one of the hardest positions to excel at in the NBA. There have been many GOOD SGs, but not many superstar calibre ones.
there was a resurgence of the two guard position in the early 2000s (TMac, Kobe, VC, AI, Houston, Ray Allen etc) but the one thing they all lacked (save Kobe, and to a certain extent Ray) is longevity and sustained elite levels of performance.
If Wade can find a way to reinvent his game w/o the explosiveness he used to have and will continue to lose, he will definitely be no. 3
on a side note i think reggie should be in everyone's top 10. one of the most clutch players ive ever seen play in my lifetime[/QUOTE]
Category --- West --- Wade
Points --- 25192 --- 15340
Rebounds --- 5366 --- 3087
Assists --- 6238 --- 3777
All-Stars --- 14 --- 8
All-NBA 1st --- 10 --- 2
Championships --- 1 --- 2
Finals --- 9 --- 3
It's not (and never will be) close. West was better than Wade.
I'm taking nothing away from Wade - I have him 4th all-time at SG - but he's no Jerry West.
[QUOTE=Money 23]Wade has five legit seasons where he was a top five player in the league.
[/QUOTE]
Yep. Clearly top 3 in 2009/10/11, has a case for top3 in 2007 before the injury, top 5 in 2006. He was basically top ten as early as his second season, he made a huge leap from his rookie year.
Wade is better than T-Mac all time. People can really only make a case about peak with T-mac. I wish he stayed healthy
[QUOTE=kNicKz]Wade is better than T-Mac all time. People can really only make a case about peak with T-mac. I wish he stayed healthy[/QUOTE]
yep. T Mac career was Waltonesque
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]yep. T Mac career was Waltonesque[/QUOTE]
Only without the NBA championship successes or NCAA titles.
Otherwise, just like it.
[QUOTE=red1]You are seriously underrating lebron. Lebron >>> west or baylor. That miami team was struggling at the start of the season because the coaches couldn't decide who should handle the ball more since lbj/wade are clones. They ended up taking turns going ISO, if lebron is paired with those guys then he instantly becomes the #1 option on the team and does whatever the f*ck he wants with the ball.[/QUOTE]
LeBron > Wade too, but I'm saying that West could certainly be considered 1b, that's what I was trying to get at.
I also forgot to mention that West was 1b to Wilt Chamberlain in later career too. LeBron vs Wilt more comparable ?
And they still struggle today because of LeBron and Wade playing similar.
[QUOTE=kNicKz]SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was
:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
You're trying way to hard.
More like :oldlol: @ Pistol Pete being in the same conversation as Wade.
[QUOTE=kNicKz]Wade over Gervin, Iverson, Havlicek?!?!?[/QUOTE]
Yup. Perhaps not Hondo because of his team success and he played longer, but I could certainly see that.
[QUOTE=kNicKz]Apparently he's already the third greatest shooting guard of ALL TIME
:roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Maybe he won't be the 3rd greatest, but nothing wrong with being 4th either.
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]I just get so ****ing mad when thinking back to the 2011 Finals. Wade would be a Top 20 player right now, 3rd greatest SG, and people wouldn't be able to say shit. I just hope he can get on fire in the Playoffs one of these years and pull one out.[/QUOTE]
You do realize if we are playing the "what if ?" game...
West could have won more rings if Wilt Chamberlain, Elgin Baylor, and other key players made big shots or contributed better in certain finals. And he would certainly would get more praise for being a Top 2 SG and people wouldn't be able to say shit either, right ? :confusedshrug:
So, what ever did happen in the past happened, but the main thing is to keep track of level of play FIRST and Wade played very well.
[QUOTE=Money 23]LMAO @ Gervin, Pistol Pete, and especially Havlicek being better players[/QUOTE]
Why especially Hondo ?
Hondo > Gervin > Pete, all-time.
[QUOTE=Money 23]George Gervin and Pistol Pete were Gilbert Arenas caliber players.
Amazing volume shooters / scorers, did little else, certainly played no defense and were stat padding losers (Gervin specifically)[/QUOTE]
Pete was a great passer too, though. Infact, I believe that was his best attribute.
[QUOTE=onhcetum]Lol'd @ "hard time putting him over jerry west"
Unless you are at least 50 years old (which I highly doubt you are), shut the **** up. How could u ever make a comparison one way or the other if u didn't even see the other guy play. Stats could only tell so much.[/QUOTE]
What do statements like this even mean ?
It's all relative to era. Do I discredit Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and all the legends from the 50's and so on because "I didn't watch them play" and just totally disregard what they did in the league and how they changed the game ?
Jerry West deserves the respect of his peers, fans, and what he did for the game. He's the logo for a reason.
Havlicek is a SF.
He's #26.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]Havlicek is a SF.[/QUOTE]
I think he was talking about all-time ranking in general, not just SG ranking.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]Havlicek is a SF.[/QUOTE]
Hondo was a swing man, played a lot of games at what today would be called the 2. There wasn't really a shooting guard like it's called today, and there wasn't a point guard either. Not by the names. Today those guards would be called combo guards.
Point guard was a name used in college for a long time before anybody started using that in the pros, and it's false to say the name started with Magic Johnson, as I have seen around on boards. People were using that name around the NBA as early as maybe '75 or '77. No question that it really caught on with Magic though, maybe you could say he popularized it.
But anyhow, Havlicek was a swing man by any name of any era. He played a lot of frontcourt and he played a lot of backcourt.
In many ways, today's NBA is based on the John Havlicek model of player, more than any other single player, except maybe the sort of "cult of the next Mike Jordan" that's out there. Not because Havlicek is necessarily a guy the players or the fans respect or emulate or even heard of, but because that's the most effective way to play basketball. And the coaches and GMs all know it and look for that type of player.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]Havlicek is a SF.[/QUOTE]
Gervin too...
[QUOTE=fpliii]Gervin too...[/QUOTE]
I've wondered about this...but looking at that Spurs roster, it seems he played a lot more at SG than he did at SF.
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I think he was talking about all-time ranking in general, not just SG ranking.[/QUOTE]
:hammerhead:
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]Hondo was a swing man, played a lot of games at what today would be called the 2. There wasn't really a shooting guard like it's called today, and there wasn't a point guard either. Not by the names. Today those guards would be called combo guards.
Point guard was a name used in college for a long time before anybody started using that in the pros, and it's false to say the name started with Magic Johnson, as I have seen around on boards. People were using that name around the NBA as early as maybe '75 or '77. No question that it really caught on with Magic though, maybe you could say he popularized it.
But anyhow, Havlicek was a swing man by any name of any era. He played a lot of frontcourt and he played a lot of backcourt.
In many ways, today's NBA is based on the John Havlicek model of player, more than any other single player, except maybe the sort of "cult of the next Mike Jordan" that's out there. Not because Havlicek is necessarily a guy the players or the fans respect or emulate or even heard of, but because that's the most effective way to play basketball. And the coaches and GMs all know it and look for that type of player.[/QUOTE]
I did not know that about the PG position. I know guys were often referred to as lead guards but I didn't know the name had caught on so late.
Interesting on Havlicek. I've heard this before, him as a swingman. From what I've seen, I'd certainly consider him a SF tho. But about him being, essentially, the model for the prototypical swingman or wing player..that's certainly interesting.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]I've wondered about this...but looking at that Spurs roster, it seems he played a lot more at SG than he did at SF.
:hammerhead:[/QUOTE]
Not sure that I agree, but I suppose that's a defensible position. Then again, there really hasn't been much differentiation between the two wing positions in quite some time (since the 50s/60s, when teams would typically line up one offensive player and one defensive player at each of G/F), so I guess the distinction's not terribly important.
[QUOTE=fpliii]Not sure that I agree, but I suppose that's a defensible position. Then again, there really hasn't been much differentiation between the two wing positions in quite some time (since the 50s/60s, when teams would typically line up one offensive player and one defensive player at each of G/F), so I guess the distinction's not terribly important.[/QUOTE]
It's not always hugely important, but I certainly there is a difference. I think someone like Thabo could play SF just fine, as he doesn't do much off screens or anything. He's obviously not a scorer and tho his handles don't suck he doesn't create anything. He can just run to a corner and spot up and he'll guard 1-3, depending on where the best player is. He could do what Bowen did, but I think Bowen was a terrible fit at SG, as there was no spacing there or a partner for Parker.
Hell, look how Iguodala looks playing the 2 so far...that's not the only thing wrong with him, but I think I don't think it helps.