What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

[QUOTE=97 bulls]I agree. Thats why I prefaced my statement by saying or better yet never did it. He was more than capable. Obviously, if he set out to score like that he could. But still the fact remains he never did it. So now were supposed to believe that a guy that hovered around 25-26 ppg for his prime, would avg 30 ppg? In an era where the available shot attempts are cut by roughly 20-25%? Better yet 30/14/8? GTFO[/QUOTE]

I think both sides tend to exaggerate quite a bit. Bird wouldn't be a 30/10/10 player today, of course not. But simply cutting down his numbers is the wrong approach, too. To me, the most likely scenario is something pretty much along his real stats depending on the players he's surrounded with. He wouldn't be god, but besides some sub par playoff runs he'd also have stretches of being the clear cut best player on the planet today.

Also, you raise an interesting point about Bird being capable of scoring more, but never doing it. Looking at his playing style, I'd say a ball dominating role wouldn't suit his skillset and also his physical limitations. People kinda underestimate how incredibly skilled a player has to be to survive amongst all these athletic freaks. And with Bird playing a one man army role for maybe 40 mpg, his all around production would probably suffer quite a bit.
I don't know, Bird was of course capable of averaging 30 ppg, but the downsides of that role should be taken into account, too.

That's the reason why I'd prefer Lebron in a ball dominant role. His durability and physical dominance makes him more suited for that. But Bird is a much more versatile offensive player, so it really comes down to the players they're supposed to work with. So both extremes are a bit silly to me. Bird and Magic would of course dominate today, but they wouldn't completely annihilate everybody.

80s NBA basketball averaged up to 115 poss. a game (pace)... 20+ more than today.... thats a much higher pace, especially for the showtime Lakers & Celtics who probably had the highest pace of those 80s teams... Not even the most famous run-n-gun team of this era (~2006 Phoenix Suns) averaged over 96 poss. a game....

So, i think its not very likely they would average more than they did.... the game is just slower today, more thinking, more half-court offense, ofcourse anybody would love to hurry up with the possessions, but teams wont allow you to do it as efficiently you were able to in the 80s...

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]ISHers severely under-rating Magic's offense here.

Do fans here really believe that Magic could "only" average 20 ppg? Here was a player who could hang 42 in a clinching Finals game in his rookie season. A player who was averaging 18 ppg on .561 and .565 FG%'s, and then had playoff runs of 22 ppg on .537 and .539 shooting. And seasons of 24 ppg and playoffs of 25 ppg. All while handing out 12+ apg in the regular season, and as high as 15 apg in the playoffs. He even had a Finals of 26 ppg, on .541 shooting, with 13 apg (as well as Finals' of 21 ppg on .573 shooting, and 22 ppg on .550 shooting.)

Psileas' research turned up a stretch in which Magic had 11 straight games of 30+ points. THAT is what Magic was capable of, had he been so inclined. My god, a 36 year old HIV Magic, four years removed from playing, and overweight, averaged 15 ppg on .466 shooting, with 6.9 apg...all while playing less than 30 minutes a game. Included were stretchs in which he averaged 20 ppg, including a high of 28 (on 9-12 shooting from the floor.)

Ask Magic to score first, and pass second, and he likely could have approached 30 ppg.[/QUOTE]
Again, the same logic applies, sure he could if he set out to do it. But that wasnt his game. Why do you even want to turn him into Michael Jordan? Magic was great in his own right.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]ISHers severely under-rating Magic's offense here.

Do fans here really believe that Magic could "only" average 20 ppg? Here was a player who could hang 42 in a clinching Finals game in his rookie season. A player who was averaging 18 ppg on .561 and .565 FG%'s, and then had playoff runs of 22 ppg on .537 and .539 shooting. And seasons of 24 ppg and playoffs of 25 ppg. All while handing out 12+ apg in the regular season, and as high as 15 apg in the playoffs. He even had a Finals of 26 ppg, on .541 shooting, with 13 apg (as well as Finals' of 21 ppg on .573 shooting, and 22 ppg on .550 shooting.)

Psileas' research turned up a stretch in which Magic had 11 straight games of 30+ points. THAT is what Magic was capable of, had he been so inclined. My god, a 36 year old HIV Magic, four years removed from playing, and overweight, averaged 15 ppg on .466 shooting, with 6.9 apg...all while playing less than 30 minutes a game. Included were stretchs in which he averaged 20 ppg, including a high of 28 (on 9-12 shooting from the floor.)

Ask Magic to score first, and pass second, and he likely could have approached 30 ppg.[/QUOTE]

Nice post, JLauber. :applause:

[QUOTE=pauk]80s NBA basketball averaged up to 115 poss. a game (pace)... 20+ more than today.... thats a much higher pace, especially for the showtime Lakers & Celtics who probably had the highest pace of those 80s teams... Not even the most famous run-n-gun team of this era (~2006 Phoenix Suns) averaged over 96 poss. a game....

So, i think its not very likely they would average more than they did.... the game is just slower today, more thinking, more half-court offense, ofcourse anybody would love to hurry up with the possessions, but teams wont allow you to do it as efficiently you were able to in the 80s...[/QUOTE]
Funny thing is, neither the Lakers or Celtics had the highest oace in the 80s. The Celtics were routinely near the bottom, whike the Lakers were middle of the pack.

[QUOTE=pauk]80s NBA basketball averaged up to 115 poss. a game (pace)... 20+ more than today.... thats a much higher pace, especially for the showtime Lakers & Celtics who probably had the highest pace of those 80s teams... Not even the most famous run-n-gun team of this era (~2006 Phoenix Suns) averaged over 96 poss. a game....

So, i think its not very likely they would average more than they did.... the game is just slower today, more thinking, more half-court offense, ofcourse anybody would love to hurry up with the possessions, but teams wont allow you to do it as efficiently you were able to in the 80s...[/QUOTE]
What was the Lakers pace in 90 when Magic won mvp?

[QUOTE=Psileas]Well, I don't recall this specific number, maybe you meant something else. However, you can see that in the 1987 season, there's a [B]34[/B] game stretch when Magic averages [B]27.0 ppg[/B] (on 52.2% FG) in no more than 38.3 mpg, to go with his usual 11.8 apg and 6.1 rpg. Magic never cared to dominate the ball or shoot that much. But, whenever he wanted to turn it on, he had no problem putting up LeBron-like scoring numbers. But that wasn't what made his teammates better and himself happy.[/QUOTE]

Sorry about that. I was going on memory instead of actually verifying it myself. It could be that I was completely wrong, which is likely; or I read it somewhere else, and by someone else; or the number of games was incorrect.

In any case, I could not find a stretch where Magic scored 30+ in 11 straight games. In fact, MJ's best 30+ run was 11 straight games (and another of 10.)

But thanks for the other info. Clearly, Magic could have scored much more in his career. Those posters claiming he would be around a 20 ppg scorer today must be basing it on his career average.

As a sidenote, Magic had four post-season games of 40+, with a high of 44, which included back-to-back 43 point games in the '90 playoffs.

They would both be top 5 players in the NBA today. Who cares what their stat line would be.

[QUOTE=97 bulls][B]Its hard to acknowledge because he coukdnt or never did it when he played. [/B]In an era where he had ample opportunity. Comparing guys like Durant and Bryant isnt feasible because they did take shots at a league leading rate.

Heres another example. Bill Russell routinely shot in the mid 40s percent throughout his career. Thats terrible for a center now, but thats was
the norm back then. And if you were to ask me what his percentage woukd be today id say low 50s. The leavue is different.[/QUOTE]


What? He did that in the 80s. He averaged 19 shots in his career and had 22 shots before. Even after his surgery, he came back and average 20 FGA while he dealt with injuries in 89-90. You really think that he wouldn't have 18-21 shots per game of he played in this era? Especially since he did it against players who played late into the 90s who had the same amount of shots like they did in the 80s. And Bird was better than them. Even old Jordan had 20 shot attempts when he wasn't as agile as he was in the 80s and early 90s. He always had the skill to get his own shot and play within the team offense. These type of skills would go for any era.

You don't think a mid 80s Bird would average about 18-21 shots in the mid 90s (pnly two or three years after he retired)all the way to the early 00s? Especially since he played against some of the best players, and was considered better than all of them except for Jordan?

If you put Bird on another team where he is the number 1 option, which would be most teams, then I don't see why he wouldn't take the most shots of the team. Especially since Mchale is probably better than most teams first option.

[QUOTE=Micku]What? He did that in the 80s. He averaged 19 shots in his career and had 22 shots before. Even after his surgery, he came back and average 20 FGA while he dealt with injuries in 89-90. You really think that he wouldn't have 18-21 shots per game of he played in this era? Especially since he did it against players who played late into the 90s who had the same amount of shots like they did in the 80s. And Bird was better than them. Even old Jordan had 20 shot attempts when he wasn't as agile as he was in the 80s and early 90s. He always had the skill to get his own shot and play within the team offense. These type of skills would go for any era.

You don't think a mid 80s Bird would average about 18-21 shots in the mid 90s (pnly two or three years after he retired)all the way to the early 00s? Especially since he played against some of the best players, and was considered better than all of them except for Jordan?

If you put Bird on another team where he is the number 1 option, which would be most teams, then I don't see why he wouldn't take the most shots of the team. Especially since Mchale is probably better than most teams first option.[/QUOTE]
Lol. I think your being unreasonable bro. Youre totally dismissing my points. And now rehashing.

I already stated you cant compare Jordan and Malone because their situations were different. Thurl Bailey avg roughly 13 shots per game with Utah. Who was Thurl Bailey in late 90s Utah? Jeff Malone was Hornacek, I believe Eaton and Ostertag took the same amount if shots, Antine Carr (late 90s Utahs Thurl Bailey) took only 6 shots. Byron Russell took less shots than the 80s Jazz SF.

The same applies for Jordan and the Bulls. Both Oakley and Grant took more than twice as many shots as Rodman. Kukoc and Armstrong took basically the same shots Pippens FGAs dropped a tad. Longley and Cartwright paralled each other.

So somethings gotta give. If Bird keeps taking the same amount if shots, then the rest of the Celtics numbers fall. Then that starting five isnt that impressive

Its like I always said put the 90s Bulls in the 80s and theur stats look on par with the Lakers and Celtics.

Well, LeBron averaged 27-7-8...

Considering he is much better, and more athletic than both, I'd say considerably less than what LBJ could muster in today's athletic league, filled with complex defensive schemes and rotations.

Magic: 19-9-5

Bird: 22-6-7

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Well, LeBron averaged 27-7-8...

Considering he is much better, and more athletic than both, I'd say considerably less than what LBJ could muster in today's athletic league, filled with complex defensive schemes and rotations.

Magic: 19-9-5

Bird: 22-6-7[/QUOTE]
Trolling? Must be...

If not:
[COLOR="White"]Just the PPG you listed for either player is LMFAO-worthy. And how would the best PG ever not average over 9 assists per game?[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Living Being]Trolling? Must be...

If not:
[COLOR="White"]Just the PPG you listed for either player is LMFAO-worthy. And how would the best PG ever not average over 9 assists per game?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Pace.

Rondo was the only player to get over 9.7 and he INTENTIONALLY gives up shots to pad his assists. Shit, CP3, D-WIll, etc couldn't get 10. Not even close...

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Pace.

Rondo was the only player to get over 9.7 and he INTENTIONALLY gives up shots to pad his assists. Shit, CP3, D-WIll, etc couldn't get 10. Not even close...[/QUOTE]
:biggums: :applause: :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Living Being]:biggums: :applause: :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

This ain't 1980 playboy. It's 2013.

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Pace.

Rondo was the only player to get over 9.7 and he INTENTIONALLY gives up shots to pad his assists. Shit, CP3, D-WIll, etc couldn't get 10. Not even close...[/QUOTE]
even tho i dont think bird/magics stats should be that low you have a point. today's game is more half-court oriented than the 80s was, the possessions per game are down, and most of all you have a lot of athletic forwards that can give bird or magic a much harder time than the 80s. everyone was either a druggie or just cared about scoring. i swear one of the reasons why the fastbreak was so successful early on before teams started to catch up was bc everyone was too coked out to hustle down the floor everytime magic pushed the ball. u cant say that today.

Gotta lol at this "pace" BS. People don't think Bird would, I don't know, just shoot more?!?! Dude was a scorer. One of the greatest scorers EVER. Quit talking out of your asses. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Gotta lol at this "pace" BS. People don't think Bird would, I don't know, just shoot more?!?! Dude was a scorer. One of the greatest scorers EVER. Quit talking out of your asses. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

LeBron got 27 on 17.8 FGA

Bird, in the weaker defensive era, got 21.3 on 17.8 FGA, and 19.4 ppg on 17 FGA.

Let it sink in.

Let. It. Sink. In.

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]This ain't 1980 playboy. It's 2013.[/QUOTE]
Chris Paul averaged 23/11 in 2009 at a slower league pace and 21/11.6 in 2008 at about the same league pace.

Nash averaged 19/11 during years with slower league pace than 2013.

Magic averaged 12.6 ast/g in 1991 at league pace 5.9% higher than 2013 (and the Lakers team pace was only 2% higher than 2013 average). Lakers PPG was 99.6 compared to 2013 average of 98.1.

Paul and Nash >>>> Magic f*cking Johnson?

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]LeBron got 27 on 17.8 FGA

Bird, in the weaker defensive era, got 21.3 on 17.8 FGA, and 19.4 ppg on 17 FGA.

Let it sink in.

Let. It. Sink. In.[/QUOTE]

Bird also "got" 30 on 21 shots. Sit your ass down, kiddo. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Bird also "got" 30 on 21 shots. Sit your ass down, kiddo. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

False.

NEXT

Magic: 17 ppg, 7 rpg, 10 apg, 45% FG
Bird: 19 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, 48% FG

The game has evolved, the tempo of the game has changed and guys are much bigger / more athletic nowadays. Since they're basketball prodigies they will still find a way and make the necessary adjustments, but you're an idiot if you expect them to dominate like they did, it's like expecting Carl Lewis to outrun Usain Bolt.

[B]Larry Bird in the Half Court Situation:[/B] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU[/url]

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Human Error]Magic: 17 ppg, 7 rpg, 10 apg, 45% FG
Bird: 19 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, 48% FG

The game has evolved, the tempo of the game has changed and guys are much bigger / more athletic nowadays. Since they're basketball prodigies they will still find a way and make the necessary adjustments, but you're an idiot if you expect them to dominate like they did, it's like expecting Carl Lewis to outrun Usain Bolt.[/QUOTE]

Basketball isn't track and field, you moron.

Please explain why Jordan, who played in the 80's, had SEVEN 40pt games (not including his [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw"]51pt game[/URL]) at 39 and 40 years old. I'll wait.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Basketball isn't track and field, you moron.

Please explain why Jordan, who played in the 80's, had SEVEN 40pt games (not including his [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw"]51pt game[/URL]) at 39 and 40 years old. I'll wait.[/QUOTE]
Oh my god you freaking idiot, MJ only shot 41.5% from the field and 18.9% from beyond the arc that season. Of course he still averaged 22.9 ppg and his sheer greatness was able to give you occasional classic games but you're a stupid cotdamn moron if you thought he dominated like he used to. I believe a prime MJ would fare better than Bird or Magic in this era but his numbers would still have taken a hit regardless, the teams don't average 120+ points a game anymore.

If you do not like the track and field comparison(you have a point but basketball, among all major professional sports, still requires the most physical tools and athleticism), what about Jack Nicklaus vs Tiger Woods? John McEnroe vs Rafael Nadal? Hulk Hogan vs Brock Lesnar? Games evolve you idiot and it's not the other way around.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Bird also "got" 30 on 21 shots. Sit your ass down, kiddo. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

He had 29 on 22 shots and 30 on 22 shots... but that's not what impresses me about Bird. Are posters aware that he lead the league minutes per game twice ? I don't see him slowing down any less with slower pace and a league that benefits his scoring skills.

Ditto for Magic, who would cause mis-matches with his size and could get his points in the paint.

Bird would be a Top 3-5 scorer today, IMO. Magic would be around the 17-23pig range, depending what his role is. I don't see him cranking over 25+ (he wasn't really that type of player), but low 20's as a top scoring option seems right.

[QUOTE=Human Error]Oh my god you freaking idiot, MJ only shot 41.5% from the field and 18.9% from beyond the arc that season. Of course he still averaged 22.9 ppg and his sheer greatness was able to give you occasional classic games but you're a stupid cotdamn moron if you thought he dominated like he used to. I believe a prime MJ would fare better than Bird or Magic in this era but his numbers would still have taken a hit regardless, the teams don't average 120+ points a game anymore.[/QUOTE]

I never said, "he dominated like he used to". Learn to read.

If this guy, because of his "sheer greatness", was able to put up multiple 40 point games at 39 and 40 years old, just think what he would have done in his 20's. The guy would dominate the landscape of the NBA today; maybe even more-so with the lax perimeter rules. Educate yourself.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]He had 29 on 22 shots and 30 on 22 shots... but that's not what impresses me about Bird. Are posters aware that he lead the league minutes per game twice ? I don't see him slowing down any less with slower pace and a league that benefits his scoring skills.

Ditto for Magic, who would cause mis-matches with his size and could get his points in the paint.

Bird would be a Top 3-5 scorer today, IMO. Magic would be around the 17-23pig range, depending what his role is. I don't see him cranking over 25+ (he wasn't really that type of player), but low 20's as a top scoring option seems right.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that was just off the top of my head. Good points, btw.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Yeah, that was just off the top of my head. Good points, btw.[/QUOTE]

I knew that was the 87-88 season you were referring to, as well.

Bird had a damn good case of winning MVP 4 times in 5 years.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]I never said, "he dominated like he used to". Learn to read.

If this guy, because of his "sheer greatness", was able to put up multiple 40 point games at 39 and 40 years old, just think what he would have done in his 20's. The guy would dominate the landscape of the NBA today; maybe even more-so with the lax perimeter rules. Educate yourself.[/QUOTE]
You have to learn to read, did I say that MJ would suck today? Damn no, I believe he would be still great, but I just don't see him average 35 points on 60% shooting like some of you nostalgic dinosaurs seem to believe. And what's even funnier is you guys who aren't even half as old as me think "it was all better in 80s". The game has evolved and the best defenders he faced at that times were the likes of Craig Ehlo / Joe Dumars.

[QUOTE=Human Error]Magic: 17 ppg, 7 rpg, 10 apg, 45% FG
Bird: 19 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, 48% FG

[B]The game has evolved, the tempo of the game has changed and guys are much bigger / more athletic nowadays[/B]. Since they're basketball prodigies they will still find a way and make the necessary adjustments, but you're an idiot if you expect them to dominate like they did, it's like expecting Carl Lewis to outrun Usain Bolt.[/QUOTE]
You are a human error you waste.

Your numbers make no sense in reference to pace or playing level. We're talking about going from 105-110 pts/g to 98 pts/g. Their stats will not drop 20%. Rebounds per game stats has hardly even changed LMFAO and you dropped their rebound #'s dramatically like your are some bball expert.

Carmelo averaged 29/7/3, Chris Paul averaged 17/4/10, Paul George averaged 17/8/4, and you think Bird will average 19/6/6 and Magic 17/7/10?

Who the hell? You know you are talking about GOAT players who played against MJ and Wilkins? Yeah, they will find a way to adjust to all these freakish players like Carmelo and Chris Paul.

[QUOTE=Human Error]You have to learn to read, did I say that MJ would suck today? Damn no, I believe he would be still great, but I just don't see him average 35 points on 60% shooting like some of you nostalgic dinosaurs seem to believe. And what's even funnier is you guys who aren't even half as old as me think "it was all better in 80s". The game has evolved and the best defenders he faced at that times were the likes of Craig Ehlo / Joe Dumars.[/QUOTE]

And guys like. Nate McMillan, Xavier McDaniel, Richmond, Sprewell, Dennis Rodman, Terry Cummings, Alvin Robertson, Nick Anderson, Gerald Wilkins, Stacey Augmon.

Defensively Jordan's era was tougher, more physical, and handchecking was still allowed on the perimeter, unlike today. You have just forgotten, or never knew, what good defense looks like.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]And guys like. Nate McMillan, Xavier McDaniel, Richmond, Sprewell, Dennis Rodman, Terry Cummings, Alvin Robertson, Nick Anderson, Gerald Wilkins, Stacey Augmon.

Defensively Jordan's era was tougher, more physical, and handchecking was still allowed on the perimeter, unlike today. You have just forgotten, or never knew, what good defense looks like.[/QUOTE]

no it wasn't man...people stay making up shit

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rto2_oYVs0I[/url]


this 1985, the "golden era of basketball...where the hand checking at?



this when he dropped 63 against the Celts, where the Handchecking?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0ZS8HWw5A[/url]


people exaggerate the physicality

[QUOTE=aburre21]no it wasn't man...people stay making up shit

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rto2_oYVs0I[/url]


this 1985, the "golden era of basketball...where the hand checking at?



this when he dropped 63 against the Celts, where the Handchecking?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0ZS8HWw5A[/url]


people exaggerate the physicality[/QUOTE]

I'm not making up anything. The footage is there for you to see...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ[/url]

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Pace.

Rondo was the only player to get over 9.7 and he INTENTIONALLY gives up shots to pad his assists. Shit, CP3, D-WIll, etc couldn't get 10. Not even close...[/QUOTE]

I was reading the last few pages through this thread and then I read this one in response to why Magic wouldn't average more than 9 assists a game :roll: Using Rondo and co. as a comparison to why Magic would struggle is the worst logic I could possibly think of :lol:

You stupid child, why don't you get a clue first before you start talking about players you never saw or even know about. Why don't you stick to the threads that demonstrate how clueless and out of touch you are about basketball-maybe start with the "Lebron is the Greatest" fapping threads and leave these threads to people who know what they are talking about.

Going on past history and 80's-90's being a tougher era, I'd say Magic would go 22pts 8 rebs and 12 assts, Bird would go 28-30 pts 10 rebs and 6 assists. Also depending what type of team they land on, give or take a point or an assist a game.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]I agree. Thats why I prefaced my statement by saying or better yet never did it. He was more than capable. Obviously, if he set out to score like that he could. But still the fact remains he never did it. So now were supposed to believe that a guy that hovered around 25-26 ppg for his prime, would avg 30 ppg? In an era where the available shot attempts are cut by roughly 20-25%? Better yet 30/14/8? GTFO[/QUOTE]

He didn't average 25-26 in that era because he wasn't capable of shooting more. He averaged that in a team that had at least 3 very good scorers. He averaged 30 in the late 80s when his same partners in crime were injured/unhealthy. So why couldn't he do the same thing in an era where he can clearly shoot enough to score that much, and in this era he won't have competition in his own team to the extent that those Celtics did? That's why in a weak team in this era he could clearly average 30. Pace doesn't matter for stars...their team composition matters more. Bird averaged 25-30 playing on all-time great sides, why couldn't he score that much in a good side in this era (which doesn't require him to share the ball near as much)?

The same things go for his rebounding and assists. When he was playing PF he was an 11RPG player and in 87 when he had to shoulder a lot of the load he was an 8APG player. As aforesaid, clearly the team composition and his role plays a large part of how he'd do. You're especially talking about a player who had f-all usage in comparison to 90% of stars.

It is simple logic that you get but don't apply for some reason.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Lol. I think your being unreasonable bro. Youre totally dismissing my points. And now rehashing.
So somethings gotta give. If Bird keeps taking the same amount if shots, then the rest of the Celtics numbers fall. Then that starting five isnt that impressive.

[B]So somethings gotta give. If Bird keeps taking the same amount if shots, then the rest of the Celtics numbers fall. Then that starting five isnt that impressive[/B][/QUOTE]
Did you change your argument? I was talking about Bird capability of being able to shoot 18-22 shots a game if he is the number 1 option in this era. But you are mentioning the 80s Celtics team in general if they were to play within this era and whatever or not the team would get their shots?

Well, there were a couple teams like I said that have similar starting five like the 95 an 96 Magic. The 95 magic had 5 guys that had over 13 points per game. The celtics had four. And look averages. With the Magic:
Shaq had 20 FGA
Penny had 15 FGA
Nick Anderson had 12
Dennis Scott had 10
Horace Grant had 10

67 shots average with those five.

With the 1986 Celtics:
Bird had 20 FGA
Mchale had 14 FGA
Dennis Johnson had 14 FGA
Robert Parish had 12 FGA
Danny Ainge had 9 FGA

69 shots on average with them.

Virtually the same, but with more talent and better team ball. The Lakers of 97 and 98 were similar. They may not play the same, and the bench won't that many shots, but it isn't impossible for the Celtics starting team to get amount of shots. But this conversation is about the team and not Bird being able to get that many shots today without having the same teammates.

:facepalm [B]at people thinking a difference of like 10 in pace would considerably change a star's averages.

Bird's stats over the course of 75 games at a average pace of 93.0 is virtually the same, even considering 23 games from 1989-1992 when he was a freaking shell, plus he had low USG% compared to other superstars and he wasn't the main ball-handler:[/B] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA[/url]
[B]
Oh, and great athletes and/or great defensive players? He went up against the likes of Bobby Jones, Dennis Rodman, Dominique Wilkins, Michael Cooper, Scottie Pippen, Orlando Woolridge, Clifford Robinson, Michael Jordan, Rodney McCray, Larry Nance, Dan Roundfield, Julius Erving, Buck Williams, Xavier McDaniel, Paul Pressey, Jerome Kersey, Clyde Drexler, Lonnie Shelton, Sidney Moncrief, Kenny Walker, Horace Grant, Tom Chambers... Look them up if you don't know them and be impressed. Plus taller, better and tougher bigmen packing the paint, and rules didn't benefit offense like nowadays.
If anything he would've had life considerably easier nowadays, looking at all of that above
Also, back on d, the lack of bigmen and zone defenses helps him even more because he could play even more PF, as he was a better and good post defender, and he's one of the goat team defenders.

I'm pretty sure that for Magic it would be the same.[/B]

I think their numbers would basically be the same.