the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]It doesn't matter what the average is if you have guys well below him on that formula.

Dumars has a finals mvp, but Gasol has better career numbers.

You really think the people voting will just ignore everything and only focus on the limited stuff you are looking at?

Nah...Gasol would make it on his NBA career alone.

I'd love to hear the argument for Dumars in and Gasol out. Solely because a finals MVP? Not good enough for people that actually know basketball.[/QUOTE]
Dumars shut down MJ. True story.

Wait do you even understand what you've posted? First you make this post --

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]just looked up the minimum average needed to make the HOF based on past inductees and their score

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html[/url]

Hall of Fame probabilities are presented for all players with a minimum of 400 NBA games played. Although it can be risky to make predictions for active players, you can think of these probabilities as answering the question "If this player retired today, what is the probability he would be elected to the Hall of Fame?". The model was built using a pool of 750 players. One method to assess classification accuracy is to compare the estimated Hall of Fame probability for the case to the actual result. [B]Of the 750 players, 89 had been elected to the Hall of Fame and 661 had not. If the player's predicted probability of election was greater than or equal to 0.5, I predicted that he was in the Hall of Fame. Of the 89 players in the Hall of Fame, 74 were correctly classified (83.1%) and 15 were not (16.9%). Of the 661 players not in the Hall of Fame, 651 were correctly classified (98.5%) and 10 were not (1.5%). Overall, 725 of the 750 players (96.7%) were correctly classified by the model.[/B]


[B]gasols .60 isnt enough[/B][/QUOTE]

A blurb that explicitly says that with Gasol's 60% probability basketball-reference.com would predict that the player would make the HOF; and has cited statistical proof stating he's right over 95% of the time.

Yet you still have nerve to post this?

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]gasols nba hof rating is 0.621

[B][U]the minimum to make the hall of fame is 0.83-0.84[/U][/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=2LeTTeRS]Wait do you even understand what you've posted? The blurb explicitly says that with Gasol's 60% probability basketball-reference.com would predict that the player would make the HOF; and has cited statistical proof stating he's right over 95% of the time.[/QUOTE]
60% of the time he's right 95% of the time.

Pau Gasol is a legit HOFer.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin][IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/287d81u.png[/IMG]

no other player in history has done it

[B]the only other guy on his team that might make it will be as an international contributor[/B]

Pau Gasols individual nba accolades arent up to par

4 reserve allstar selections
1 third team all nba
2 second team all nba's
0-16 in the playoffs without kobe bryant

just as a comparison.. this is anfernee hardaways career

4 starting allstar selections
2 first team all nba's
1 third team all nba
9 playoff wins without shaq


now.. say anfernee hardaway lucked out 2 rings with the suns behind jason kidd.. even if he had 2 good years.. he still wouldnt be a hall of famer.

and making the hall of fame based on winning olympic silver medals or euro competition gold isnt exactly on the same level as an nba hall of famer. considering that if an american wins a silver medal or some second rate international gold. that wouldnt get them a hall of fame nomination. plus its allot easier to be the best player on a euro national team than it is on the US team[/QUOTE]

Stop trolling asshole.
[B]
Gasol does not have the international accomplishments to make it off just international career. He does not stack up to the other guys that made it solely on that.[/B]

He would make it based off BOTH NBA career and that.

[B]STOP BEING A DAMN TROLL.[/B]

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Stop trolling asshole.
[B]
Gasol does not have the international accomplishments to make it off just international career. He does not stack up to the other guys that made it solely on that.[/B]

He would make it based off BOTH NBA career and that.

[B]STOP BEING A DAMN TROLL.[/B][/QUOTE]
Hey Euroleague, Kenneth believes that Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spanoulis. What do you think about that?

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]not an nba hall of famer though

:oldlol:

international contributions elect :bowdown:[/QUOTE]

There is no such thing as an "NBA Hall of Famer" you freaking idiot.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate......[/QUOTE]

The NBA Hall of Fame only exists in your delusional mind. It does not exist in the real world.

Idiot.

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]Since there is no NBA hall of fame, are you saying that the HOF commitee will specifically cite Gasol's international career as the reason for his induction? It's a legitimate question because I don't know how that works, but it seems rather unlikely especially for a guy who had a long productive NBA career.[/QUOTE]


It does not work like that at all.

He is just a mega troll spewing total and complete BULLSHIT.

EVERY player that played in the NBA is classed as an NBA player.

Every player that did not play in the NBA is classed as an international player.

Gasol is therefore classed as a NBA player.

EVERY player from North America is classed as a North American player.

Every player from outside North America is classed as as a foreign player.

Therefore Gasol is classed as a foreign player.

There can be separate voting committees. So, Gasol would obviously be under the NBA voting committee, just like every other NBA player, however, he could be placed under the foreign player one.

If he was voted in under international, then only one guy per year can get in under that.

But he would not be voted in just for "international play". No way. Because the guys like Dalipagic, Kosic, Belov, Schmidt that are in there solely for international play............the standard is incredibly high, almost unattainable, and takes many many years to get elected. Schmidt just made it and Galis still has not even made it.

Gasol's career solely on "international play" is not even remotely close to those above guys. So this whole premise is complete BULLSHIT.

If he got elected, it would be like Sabonis or Divac, or Petrovic, based on entire career, based on body of work, INCLUDING NBA. He does not have the resume, nor the credentials to make it just on "international play" - at least not for the next 20-30 years anyway.

Besides that, it should also be clarified that the voting committee for the foreign players is all former NBA players from what I remember almost all of them are Americans anyway.

So this is a total myth that somehow there is this different imaginary criteria for European players. How the **** can the criteria and voting preference be different, when American NBA players are the ones voting on whether or not European players make it anyway?

This guy is just trolling like crazy.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]its possible

kobe may play 5 more years. pau 3-4 if his legs/feet dont hold up
[B]
and itel be as an international contributor[/B] :cheers:[/QUOTE]

No it won't. Because Gasol isn't even eligible for any such thing. He's only eligible to enter as a player.

He's not even eligible to enter as a contributor you freaking moron.

If you think Pau Gasol had even 1/10 the impact on basketball development culturally in Spain that Yao did in China (which is why Yao is eligible for that) then you are replacing gabepizza as the new official biggest imbecile in this forum.

Pau Gasol has not done one single thing in his career to be eligible to make the hall of fame as a contributor. Maybe if he had a very long further career in the game for like another 30 years or so.................

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]I'm pretty sure that 14+ years in the NBA with 2 titles (as an all-star) assures that he won't be an "[B]international contributor"[/B]. It's not as if he's Arvydas Sabonis. Gasol has had a terrific NBA career.[/QUOTE]

He just made that up. Gasol isn't even eligible for that.

For example the Hall of Fame recently said that Sarunas Marciulionis could be eligible for that IF he wanted to be, ONLY because of his "extraordinary contributions to the sport of basketball in the nation of Lithuania"

as in, he is probably the single most important figure in the history of the country in terms of the history of the sport, created the league, created the freaking national team, etc.

And even then............they HESITATED to even offer it to him.

And this clown is trying to pretend that freaking Pau Gasol would be eligible for that.

:lol :oldlol: :rolleyes: :facepalm

[QUOTE=Euroleague]The NBA Hall of Fame only exists in your delusional mind. It does not exist in the real world.

Idiot.[/QUOTE]


you're the idiot

i didn't say theres an nba hall of fame

i said gasol wouldn't be going in based on his nba resume

hense... not a legit nba hall of famer

my point wasnt a factual classification. more of a metaphorical one

but there actually is class's of hall of famers .. yao ming played a long career in the nba. but he won't be going in as an nba player. hes elected as an international contributor to the game

now i agree gasol isnt a hall of fame international player either

i think hes got half of a hall of fame resume in the nba. and half of a hall of fame resume in international competition

if he does make it then whatever. but i still say its quite the loop hole for him to make it just based on some meaningless euro gold/olympic silver boost


as if a few international medals is anywhere close to being worth all the 1st team awards or allstar years hes missing

how hard is it to be the best player on spain? probably about half as difficult as being one of the 10 best players in basketball for a decade ( which he's nowhere close to being )


i think he had a good 3 year run. before that he was nowhere close to great. and after 2010 he dropped off the map

paus not a hall of famer IMO

and thats my opinion.

if rodman and reggie were 2nd ballot.. then pau will probably be left off the ballot for 20 years.. then when he gets in nobody will give a sh*t anyway

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]it was terrific


i like gasol. hes a really good player. for a few years he was great. even on an allstar level

and we couldnt have won without his help

[B]but to say hes a hall of fame nba player is a joke[/B][/QUOTE]

There is no NBA Hall of fame genius.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]There is no NBA Hall of fame genius.[/QUOTE]


look up

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]you're the idiot

i didn't say theres an nba hall of fame

i said gasol wouldn't be going in based on his nba resume

hense... not a legit nba hall of famer

my point wasnt a factual classification. more of a metaphorical one

but there actually is class's of hall of famers .. yao ming played a long career in the nba. but he won't be going in as an nba player. hes elected as an international contributor to the game

now i agree gasol isnt a hall of fame international player either

i think hes got half of a hall of fame resume in the nba. and half of a hall of fame resume in international competition

if he does make it then whatever. but i still say its quite the loop hole for him to make it just based on some meaningless euro gold/olympic silver boost


as if a few international medals is anywhere close to being worth all the 1st team awards or allstar years hes missing

how hard is it to be the best player on spain? probably about half as difficult as being one of the 10 best players in basketball for a decade ( which he's nowhere close to being )


i think he had a good 3 year run. before that he was nowhere close to great. and after 2010 he dropped off the map

paus not a hall of famer IMO

and thats my opinion.

if rodman and reggie were 2nd ballot.. then pau will probably be left off the ballot for 20 years.. then when he gets in nobody will give a sh*t anyway[/QUOTE]

You are a moron.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]You are a moron.[/QUOTE]


you're just mad cause you assumed i was saying something that i wasn't. thought you'd look real awesome proving someone wrong with your limited knowledge by propping up a widely known fact that there is no actual nba hall of fame. but now that you have nothing to argue with you've resorted to a single sentence name calling response.... sorry man. better luck next time


and btw


nba > euroleague

nba inducted hall of famers > international inducted hall of famers

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]you're just mad cause you assumed i was saying something that i wasn't. thought you'd look real awesome proving someone wrong with your limited knowledge by propping up a widely known fact that there is no actual nba hall of fame. but now that you have nothing to argue with you've resorted to a single sentence name calling response.... sorry man. better luck next time


and btw


nba > euroleague

nba inducted hall of famers > international inducted hall of famers[/QUOTE]

But he would get in on his NBA resume alone.

Dumars got in. Gasol is getting in. End of story.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]But he would get in on his NBA resume alone.

Dumars got in. Gasol is getting in. End of story.[/QUOTE]
Gasols career is similar to Kevin McHales as well

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Gasols career is similar to Kevin McHales as well[/QUOTE]

I just cringed. Kevin McHale is one the best post scorers the game has ever seen....his career is nothing like Gasols......he is a first ballot pick...Gasol is a fringe international pick.

That was disrespectful...

[QUOTE=kNicKz]I just cringed. Kevin McHale is one the best post scorers the game has ever seen....his career is nothing like Gasols......he is a first ballot pick...Gasol is a fringe international pick.

That was disrespectful...[/QUOTE]
I said career. And Gasol is an excellent post player in his own right. But compare their accomplishments, theyre very similar

Mchale has more rings 3-2

All-NBA team Gasol has him beat.

Gasol won rookie of the year. Mchale has two sixthman trophies.

Mchale kills as far as All-Defense teams.

Their stats are similar. Mchale is the better scorer and Gasol is the better rebounder and passer.

Gasol did much better leading a team. But granted Mchale only did that the one year Bird was out

How is this an insult to Mchale?

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Gasols career is similar to Kevin McHales as well[/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=kNicKz]I just cringed. Kevin McHale is one the best post scorers the game has ever seen....his career is nothing like Gasols......he is a first ballot pick...Gasol is a fringe international pick.

That was disrespectful...[/QUOTE]

McHale was the better player, but it's not cringe worthy to claim Gasol has had a similar career to McHale.

This is my exact point.

You don't think prime Gasol could have had a similar stretch of great play like McHale did from 85 to 90? Or whatever his prime was...

Put it this way...Pau Gasol is a hell of a lot closer to Kevin McHale...than he is to not being in the Hall of Fame.

that mchale comment proved who the troll is

Better question, besides Mike's Bulls and Lebron's Heat, what teams have won a championship or multiple championships without an elite frontcourt? In the last 30 years?

Guys wont automatically double Gasol. Give McHale the ball in the post and watch Kareem and half of Showtime swarm him.

[QUOTE=LA Lakers]Better question, besides Mike's Bulls and Lebron's Heat, what teams have won a championship or multiple championships without an elite frontcourt? In the last 30 years?[/QUOTE]


never really understood this

rodman is a rebounding/defensive legend/HOF'r

grant was an allstar and great defensive player

pippen could also defend SF's and PF's.. and hes a HOF'r and defensive legend

rodman locked up shaq.. so he could defend any center


pippen was a post up scoring machine

:confusedshrug:

people forget how long pippen was. he could post up anyone..



pippen and rodman combined >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gasol as far as post up scoring or inside defense goes



bynum didnt play at all for those 2 rings

odom never made an allstar team

I think Pau gets in the HOF. Sure he's never really been a dominant alpha dog like some of the other great PF's. But Pau is still a very good scorer who's a 20-10 guy at his best. And in terms of skill level, Pau is one of the most talented PF's ever. Great post game, one of the top 7-8 most skilled PF's ever down there. He's also one of the most skilled passing PF's ever as well. Those two rings and international stuff will get him in. Even to this day, he's a top five player currently at PF or at C. Whichever spot he plays.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]McHale was the better player, but it's not cringe worthy to claim Gasol has had a similar career to McHale.

This is my exact point.

You don't think prime Gasol could have had a similar stretch of great play like McHale did from 85 to 90? Or whatever his prime was...

Put it this way...Pau Gasol is a hell of a lot closer to Kevin McHale...than he is to not being in the Hall of Fame.[/QUOTE]

Agreed! The only PF's I can say FOR SURE are better on the block than Pau are McHale and Duncan. I'm talking in terms of footwork, craftiness with both hands, etc. Other than that, Pau has a case over any PF on the block. But I concur Mchale was better because he was more dominant. And had the ability to defend SF-C.

[QUOTE=LA Lakers]Guys wont automatically double Gasol. Give McHale the ball in the post and watch Kareem and half of Showtime swarm him.[/QUOTE]

I agree. But I think that's because McHale was simply more dominant than Pau. But Pau is still one of the premier low post PF's ever. McHale and Duncan are two guys better than Pau on the block. But after than Pau's name should come up soon for PF's on the block.

Horace Grant was a Chris Bosh type.Could do everything and do it well, even had an elbow shot, but I wouldn't call him and Cunningham elite like McHale, or Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem etc etc. Lets not get carried away. Grant was a great 3rd option on a team that had the greatest basketball player of all time, so that makes him pretty damn good, but still wouldn't put him in a league with other forwards or centers mentioned. And Mikes 2nd repeat were with guys like Australian Luc Longley and Bill Wennington, need I say more? Odom was a stud and so was Gasol and Bynum was always healthy enough come playoff time to make a little bit of a difference. Not like the Kobe/Shaq duo but still. And no one ever "locked up" Shaq, not Rodman, not anyone. They may have harassed him, or pestered him, but he never got locked up. And when he started breaking down after Phoenix and Cleveland journeyman/ ring chasing years that was simply age and wear and tear taking its toll.

The thing the 90s Bulls had going for them was what every great team needs: Depth. Ive mentioned this before, Toni Kukoc was coming off the bench When you have a guy like Kukoc coming off the bench you have a solid unit. Same with Miami, they are stacked. Christ, Ray Allen and Battier? Helps when you have the best player in the world on a stacked team, too. I don't care what anyone says, those repeat Lakers were stacked too. We had Ariza. Lose Ariza, pickup Artest. We had Farmar coming off the bench for Christ sake. Three 7 footers, yall! Three really good 7 footers.

lol trolls.

-Smak

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]But he would get in on his NBA resume alone.

Dumars got in. Gasol is getting in. End of story.[/QUOTE]

Who are you trying to convince with the "end of story" mantra?

Yourself?

[QUOTE]And on NBA alone...it's very close[/QUOTE]

:facepalm