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[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Link to article about Dirk's dad? I never heard that before...[/QUOTE]
Dirk never talk about it b/c he didnt want excuses but his sis talk about it
[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4094/a-close-look-at-dirk-nowitzki[/url]
[QUOTE=Black and White]Wrong, it is not clear cut, they were both as good as each other, but on the offensive end i think z-bo was the first option, gasol was second[/QUOTE]
Ok if i give u that Zbo wasnt even top 3 best defender for them
Marc
Tony
Conley
all more important for defense
so when u look at both ends Marc was their best
[QUOTE=Hamtaro CP3KDKG]Dirk never talk about it b/c he didnt want excuses but his sis talk about it
[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4094/a-close-look-at-dirk-nowitzki[/url][/QUOTE]
Wow...I can't believe I never heard about that.
There were rumors in Dallas about something being wrong with Dirk emotionally the last month of the season, but there was a lot of speculation he was hiding an injury.
Cool...thanks for that. :cheers:
[QUOTE=Hamtaro CP3KDKG]Ok if i give u that Zbo wasnt even top 3 best defender for them
Marc
Tony
Conley
all more important for defense
so when u look at both ends Marc was their best[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's quite as clear as you do, but I think Gasol was their overall best player...or at least most important.
I do think Z-Bo was the clear cut go to guy on offense though.
Dirk in replace of Durant on the Thunder would have won a title IMO. Main reasons:
1. Dirk would have a playmaker/ball handler on his team, Dirk isn't a playmaker ofcource (2ast type player) but he would have Westbrook, that's an automatic upgrade over Terry and Barea combined.
2. Ibaka>>>Chandler...Ibaka not only brings you defense and rebounding like Chandler, but he does it more consistently and better while having a better offensive game.
3. Giving Dirk THAT team, including how much better in the 4th Dirk is than Durant, Dirk's Thunder beat Heat in 12'.
But that's all hypotheticals and pure speculation on my part....Neway, I choose Dirk. Yea, Durant is a better scorer, but Dirk has that winning blood that gives him the edge over Durant here. Yea Dirk shot like 42% in the Finals, but watching those games he effected the whole team because the defenses were geared to stop him and he still dominated 4th quarters and closed games. Same shit with Kobe shooting 43% vs Magic, he dominated and had a huge impact 34ppg 7reb 6ast and defensive attention being glued to him freeing up Gasol...Players like Dirk, Kobe have winning blood....So yea, Dirk>>>Durant for me.
[QUOTE=branslowski]Dirk in replace of Durant on the Thunder would have won a title IMO. Main reasons:
1. Dirk would have a playmaker/ball handler on his team, Dirk isn't a playmaker ofcource (2ast type player) but he would have Westbrook, that's an automatic upgrade over Terry and Barea combined.
2. Ibaka>>>Chandler...Ibaka not only brings you defense and rebounding like Chandler, but he does it more consistently and better while having a better offensive game.
3. Giving Dirk THAT team, including how much better in the 4th Dirk is than Durant, Dirk's Thunder beat Heat in 12'.
But that's all hypotheticals and pure speculation on my part....Neway, I choose Dirk. Yea, Durant is a better scorer, but Dirk has that winning blood that gives him the edge over Durant here. Yea Dirk shot like 42% in the Finals, but watching those games he effected the whole team because the defenses were geared to stop him and he still dominated 4th quarters and closed games. Same shit with Kobe shooting 43% vs Magic, he dominated and had a huge impact 34ppg 7reb 6ast and defensive attention being glued to him freeing up Gasol...Players like Dirk, Kobe have winning blood....So yea, Dirk>>>Durant for me.[/QUOTE]
Truth.com
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
[QUOTE=branslowski]Dirk in replace of Durant on the Thunder would have won a title IMO. Main reasons:
1. Dirk would have a playmaker/ball handler on his team, Dirk isn't a playmaker ofcource (2ast type player) but he would have Westbrook, that's an automatic upgrade over Terry and Barea combined.
2. Ibaka>>>Chandler...Ibaka not only brings you defense and rebounding like Chandler, but he does it more consistently and better while having a better offensive game.
3. Giving Dirk THAT team, including how much better in the 4th Dirk is than Durant, Dirk's Thunder beat Heat in 12'.
But that's all hypotheticals and pure speculation on my part....Neway, I choose Dirk. Yea, Durant is a better scorer, but Dirk has that winning blood that gives him the edge over Durant here. Yea Dirk shot like 42% in the Finals, but watching those games he effected the whole team because the defenses were geared to stop him and he still dominated 4th quarters and closed games. Same shit with Kobe shooting 43% vs Magic, he dominated and had a huge impact 34ppg 7reb 6ast and defensive attention being glued to him freeing up Gasol...Players like Dirk, Kobe have winning blood....So yea, Dirk>>>Durant for me.[/QUOTE]
This
Cosigning "winning blood" and "killer instinct" as a basis for argument? Really?:coleman:
[QUOTE=moe94]Cosigning "winning blood" and "killer instinct" as a basis for argument? Really?:coleman:[/QUOTE]
Yeah, let's rather add "intimidation" to the equation, like "Pointguard".
[QUOTE=moe94]Cosigning "winning blood" and "killer instinct" as a basis for argument? Really?:coleman:[/QUOTE]
you don't know about that winning blood? It's a lot better than losing blood
[QUOTE=moe94]Cosigning "winning blood" and "killer instinct" as a basis for argument? Really?:coleman:[/QUOTE]
It's what he means by it. We know Brans and what he means by that...he's talking about tangible stuff.
I'm a huge Durant fan...he's going to be a top 20 player when it's all said and done imo...
But if he wants to be on Dirk's level...he needs to win a title with the kind of rosters he's had now since 11
There is a reason why Dirk improves his teams' offense so much vs Durant.
Regular season? Dirk improve his teams offense by 9.3 points per 100 possessions
Durant improves it by 5.1
Playoffs? Dirk improves it by 6.2
The Thunder actually get better offensively without Durant in the playoffs by 1.2 points. This is not me saying Durant doesn't make the Thunder much better offensively...he of course does...It's a limited sample size and just speaks to how good the Thunder can still be without him on the floor.
But those numbers represent a little of the hidden value of what Dirk brings. A 7 foot elite shooting/scoring pf that is elite and running pick and rolls and spaces the floor has huge value that doesn't show up in the stat sheets.
I just don't think Durant is much better than his numbers...and his numbers are great, but Dirk is a guy that is way better than his numbers...as is a guy like Kobe. Don't think Durant falls into that category yet.
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]you don't know about that winning blood? It's a lot better than losing blood[/QUOTE]
Please. Nobody is born with winning and losing blood.
Situations determine a lot on who wins and who doesn't.
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Please. Nobody is born with winning and losing blood.
Situations determine a lot on who wins and who doesn't.[/QUOTE]
I think dude is being sarcastic.
[QUOTE=moe94]I think dude is being sarcastic.[/QUOTE]
Reading it again, your probably right. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=moe94]I think dude is being sarcastic.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Reading it again, your probably right. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
:cheers:
'losing blood' get it..? :yaohappy:
losing blood is never a good thing
Could the poster that believes Dirk has "winning blood" and apparently Durant doesn't, tell me which playoff series Durant lost that he was a decided favorite in? Christ, he's 25 years old and already has a trip to the Finals (losing to LeBron at his peak), and a trip to the WCF losing to Dirk in "God Mode" with a savvy, veteran supporting cast playing very well. Yes, I would argue the 2011 Thunder had more talent than the 2011 Mavericks, but that talent was a bunch of 21-22 year olds getting their fist taste of playoff basketball past the 1st round.
Granted, I guess if you say you're going by current Durant vs. prime Dirk, I guess Dirk eventually won a title in his prime and showed he had that "winning blood", but he had that "winning blood" before winning a ring and so does Durant. To argue otherwise is just stupid. If your team is winning 50 or 55+ games and making deep playoff runs year in and year out, you've got "winning blood".
[QUOTE=moe94]Cosigning "winning blood" and "killer instinct" as a basis for argument? Really?:coleman:[/QUOTE]
If you didn't get it, go back to school Peter Griffin.
[QUOTE=KG215]Could the poster that believes Dirk has "winning blood" and apparently Durant doesn't, tell me which playoff series Durant lost that he was a decided favorite in? Christ, he's 25 years old and already has a trip to the Finals (losing to LeBron at his peak), and a trip to the WCF losing to Dirk in "God Mode" with a savvy, veteran supporting cast playing very well. Yes, I would argue the 2011 Thunder had more talent than the 2011 Mavericks, but that talent was a bunch of 21-22 year olds getting their fist taste of playoff basketball past the 1st round.
Granted, I guess if you say you're going by current Durant vs. prime Dirk, I guess Dirk eventually won a title in his prime and showed he had that "winning blood", but he had that "winning blood" before winning a ring and so does Durant. To argue otherwise is just stupid. If your team is winning 50 or 55+ games and making deep playoff runs year in and year out, you've got "winning blood".[/QUOTE]
a simple blood test between the two should clear this right up :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=branslowski]If you didn't get it, go back to school Peter Griffin.[/QUOTE]
That garbage will never go over anyone's head. The fact that you think it's a valid argument is hilarious, however.
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]a simple blood test between the two should clear this right up :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Is it transferable? Can we cut Dirk during their next game and have Durant rub up against him? Taint himself with that "winning blood".
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]:cheers:
'losing blood' get it..? :yaohappy:
losing blood is never a good thing[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=33028p[/IMG]
[QUOTE=KG215]Could the poster that believes Dirk has "winning blood" and apparently Durant doesn't, tell me which playoff series Durant lost that he was a decided favorite in? Christ, he's 25 years old and already has a trip to the Finals (losing to LeBron at his peak), and a trip to the WCF losing to Dirk in "God Mode" with a savvy, veteran supporting cast playing very well. Yes, I would argue the 2011 Thunder had more talent than the 2011 Mavericks, but that talent was a bunch of 21-22 year olds getting their fist taste of playoff basketball past the 1st round.
Granted, I guess if you say you're going by current Durant vs. prime Dirk, I guess Dirk eventually won a title in his prime and showed he had that "winning blood", but he had that "winning blood" before winning a ring and so does Durant. To argue otherwise is just stupid. If your team is winning 50 or 55+ games and making deep playoff runs year in and year out, you've got "winning blood".[/QUOTE]
I hate to speak for Brans, but I'll try. Hopefully he clears it up.
I think what he is saying...is that currently Durant's numbers perhaps over-state his actual impact. And I agree with that. I don't think Durant does things to his teams offense or the opposing defense the way prime Dirk was able to do.
I posted both of their impacts on offense on/off in both the regular season and playoffs...and it's clear that dirk improves it significantly more. Now, I don't want to say that means I think Durant isn't great or close to Dirk...I definitely think he is.
But Durant just has to prove it. I'm not even a big "title" guy because it's such a team thing. Like you said...Dirk was good enough to win a title from about 02 or 03 on...he just didn't have the right team and right circumstances. However, he did win...and he won with less than what Durant has been working with now for a few years...
So until Durant wins...or at least starts making that offensive impact that Dirk did...I think we have to take prime Dirk over current Durant
[QUOTE=KG215]Could the poster that believes Dirk has "winning blood" and apparently Durant doesn't, tell me which playoff series Durant lost that he was a decided favorite in? Christ, he's 25 years old and already has a trip to the Finals (losing to LeBron at his peak), and a trip to the WCF losing to Dirk in "God Mode" with a savvy, veteran supporting cast playing very well. Yes, I would argue the 2011 Thunder had more talent than the 2011 Mavericks, but that talent was a bunch of 21-22 year olds getting their fist taste of playoff basketball past the 1st round.
Granted, I guess if you say you're going by current Durant vs. prime Dirk, I guess Dirk eventually won a title in his prime and showed he had that "winning blood", but he had that "winning blood" before winning a ring and so does Durant. To argue otherwise is just stupid. If your team is winning 50 or 55+ games and making deep playoff runs year in and year out, you've got "winning blood".[/QUOTE]
Nothing in my post was a diss towards Durant. You also don't actually disagree with my choosing of Dirk. I think Dirk is more of a winner and posses better intangibles ESPECIALLY in 4th quarters inwhich I alluded to.
No one is saying Durant can't win. I just prefer Dirk...But if you wanna just nitpick words to argue over because you still salty over previous ISH encounters between us, then be my guess, get mad. I know I'm not rightnow.:lol
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]a simple blood test between the two should clear this right up :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Winning blood has a nice zing to it actually.....Tis be da new word.:bowdown:
Truth.com
I'll take Durant.
I like both players but you have more options with Durant on you're team.
Dirk has never been considered top 2 overall in the league
[QUOTE=TheReal Kendall]I'll take Durant.
I like both players but you have more options with Durant on you're team.
Dirk has never been considered top 2 overall in the league[/QUOTE]
This just isn't true on either front...
People definitely rank Dirk as one of the 2 best players in the 2011 season.
[QUOTE=TheReal Kendall]I'll take Durant.
I like both players but you have more options with Durant on you're team.
Dirk has never been considered [B]top 2 overall in the league[/B][/QUOTE]
Alot of people think Paul George is going to challenge Durant for the #2 spot this season tho.
And i agree with Dmavs Dirks 11 season he was one of the best that year
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]This just isn't true on either front...
People definitely rank Dirk as one of the 2 best players in the 2011 season.[/QUOTE]
That was only 1 season though and even then he wasn't the 2nd best in the league
If I had to pick one or the other to be my main guy I would go with Durant but that's just my opinion.
Everything has already been stated in the thread, hate I joined the convo late
[QUOTE=TheReal Kendall]That was only 1 season though and even then he wasn't the 2nd best in the league
If I had to pick one or the other to be my main guy I would go with Durant but that's just my opinion.
Everything has already been stated in the thread, hate I joined the convo late[/QUOTE]
I know he wasn't 2nd best in 2011
He was the BEST...:pimp:
[QUOTE=Black and White][B]Alot of people think Paul George is going to challenge Durant for the #2 spot this season tho.[/B]
And i agree with Dmavs Dirks 11 season he was one of the best that year[/QUOTE]
Challenging and taking it is 2 different things.
I'm not saying Dirk wasn't one of the best that season but I don't feel like he was the 2nd best in the league.
People just "overrating" Dirk cause of that playoff run and cause he beat the heavily favored Heat. ( Not taking anything from Dirk and the Mavs)
[QUOTE=TheReal Kendall]Challenging and taking it is 2 different things.
I'm not saying Dirk wasn't one of the best that season but I don't feel like he was the 2nd best in the league.
People just "overrating" Dirk cause of that playoff run and cause he beat the heavily favored Heat. ( Not taking anything from Dirk and the Mavs)[/QUOTE]
Yep i agree with you and see your point, if you take out Dirks playoff run LeBron and Durant were 1 and 2.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Of course. That is why I said 03 was your best bet. If Dirk doesn't go down...I actually think the mavs would have won.
Again...they had talent...it was the wrong kind though. It would be like having Durant, Harden, Westbrook, and Curry on the Thunder in 12. Although that's better than what the Mavs had in 03...you get the point.
It's not always just about raw talent. Winning with no center or defense is really hard. the Mavs might have been able to do it in 03, but my point was that I would have gladly traded finley for a defensive big. The thunder team had loads of talent and was properly built for playoff success.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if they'll win it, but it'll be a closer competition. They odds would've been more in their favor if Dirk didn't get hurt.
I think the Mavs needed a better coach to manage the talent together than anything else. They did need a better defensive center or a defensive player.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]And I honestly don't know what you are talking about with Bradley in 03.
He gave us 7/6/1 in the regular season and 3/4/0 in the playoffs. Perkins gave the Thunder 5/7/1 in the regular season and 5/6/1 in the playoffs. I just don't think there is any difference at all in those guys...[/QUOTE]
Because Bradley played lesser minutes, but his production was better or same. He averaged like 21 mpg to Perkins 27 minutes. Bradley got like 2.1 blocks comparison to 1.1 blocks. He was one of the best shot blockers in the league, and solid rim protection. He also rebound better within his minutes than Perkins. That's what the Mavs got him was because of they hoped he'll play defense. His problem was he was injury prone and the coaches didn't know how to handle him. He wasn't good on offense, but he was better than Perkins. He wasn't great at defense like a Ben Wallace or Mutombo, but he was very solid and better than Perkins.
[QUOTE=Black and White]Who would you rather have tho, Juwan Howard or Serge Ibaka?[/QUOTE]
Depends on the team. Unless we're talking Ibaka beyond 12 then I would take Ibaka all the way.
The Mavs needed Ibaka more than they needed Juwan Hoard tho.
[QUOTE=Black and White]Yep i agree with you and see your point, if you take out Dirks playoff run LeBron and Durant were 1 and 2.[/QUOTE]
:lol
Even with that playoff run Dirk wasn't even top 5 that season
[QUOTE=TheReal Kendall]:lol
Even with that playoff run Dirk wasn't even top 5 that season[/QUOTE]
I would put him in the top 5 that season, but thats just my opinion, he played so well and i just cant ignore it. But if you dont want to include him in there thats fine also.
[QUOTE=TheReal Kendall]:lol
Even with that playoff run Dirk wasn't even top 5 that season[/QUOTE]
No, he was.
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]No, he was.[/QUOTE]
Zero case for top 2, though.
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]No, he was.[/QUOTE]
I don't think he was consider top 5 until afterwards or during his playoff run. I think most ppl had (no order)
LeBron
Wade
Howard
Kobe
Rose (mvp)
Durant
Something along those lines. Nobody really expected Dirk to go off like that. He didn't even made the all nba first team that year. Durant and LeBron beat him.
Dirk was the best player in 11 and 2nd in 06 to Kobe. The Heat having the most preferential bias in ref history doesnt change that. Dirk murdered the #1 defense in the league in the 1st round, output more offense than prime Nash against the Suns and outplayed Duncan all in one playoff.
He also saw more double and triples than Wade who Dallas was using against Shaq. Dirk also has many other years as top 5 easy and the top 5 in that era was way more stacked than this year u had prime Shaq, KG, Duncan, Kobe T mac etc
[QUOTE=Micku]I don't think he was consider top 5 until afterwards or during his playoff run. I think most ppl had (no order)
LeBron
[B]Wade[/B]
Howard
Kobe
Rose (mvp)
Durant
Something along those lines. Nobody really expected Dirk to go off like that. He didn't even made the all nba first team that year. Durant and LeBron beat him.[/QUOTE]
:biggums: Everyone else ok, but not him.
[QUOTE=Black and White]:biggums: Everyone else ok, but not him.[/QUOTE]
Wade was easily a top 5 player in 2011
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]Wade was easily a top 5 player in 2011[/QUOTE]
Your entitled to your opinion, but i disagree. I think it was (in no order)
Lebron
Durant
Dirk
Kobe
Rose