The Last of Us is the best game ever made

[QUOTE=Shade8780]Beating out all-time greats like Destiny and Watch Dogs?

Seriously though, Shadow of Mordor and Dragon Age are the best games of 2014.[/QUOTE]

It beat out GTA V & Infinite for GOTY in 2013.

[QUOTE]The witcher 3 sold 6 million in 6 months. Arkham knight had 5 million in a few months too. Your comparing games that are still selling well to a game that has been out longer and was and still is in alot of console bundles. Tlou was a good game but come on stop being a **** please[/QUOTE]

[B]PlayStation 4[/B]

TLOU - 3.27 million
Arkham City - 2.50 million
Witcher 3 - 2.29 million

[B]Xbox One[/B]

Arkham City - 0.93 million
Witcher 3 - 0.77 million

TLOU is only exclusive on the PS4 and outsold Witcher 3.
Where the hell do you get your information from again?

[URL="http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/68/xbox-one/"]Source[/URL]

[QUOTE=West-Side]It beat out GTA V & Infinite for GOTY in 2013.



[B]PlayStation 4[/B]

TLOU - 3.27 million
Arkham City - 2.50 million
Witcher 3 - 2.29 million

[B]Xbox One[/B]

Arkham City - 0.93 million
Witcher 3 - 0.77 million

TLOU is only exclusive on the PS4 and outsold Witcher 3.
Where the hell do you get your information from again?

[URL="http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/68/xbox-one/"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE]
Google their sales and you'll find multiple news articles. Why are you linking xbox one sales only? I was wrong in my memories anyway it was 6mil in 6 weeks for witcher 3 and that was months ago. You have no idea what you are talking about anymore. Next time you make a list call it your favorite games don't call it a goat list if you have your own rules on systems you don't play.

Beat out gta v for goty? On some sites yes and on a bunch of others it lost to gta5 or Zelda. Don't misrepresent the info fool.

[QUOTE=outbreak]Google their sales and you'll find multiple news articles. Why are you linking xbox one sales only? I was wrong in my memories anyway it was 6mil in 6 weeks for witcher 3 and that was months ago. You have no idea what you are talking about anymore. Next time you make a list call it your favorite games don't call it a goat list if you have your own rules on systems you don't play.

[B]Beat out gta v for goty?[/B] On some sites yes and on a bunch of others it lost to gta5 or Zelda. Don't misrepresent the info fool.[/QUOTE]

Just click on the PS4 you ****ing moron, and you'll see the sales.

Hey goof, read very carefully.

* The Winners of this year *


[B]The Last of Us - 249

The Critics' Picks - 191

The Readers' Picks - 58[/B]


Grand Theft Auto V - 159

The Critics' Picks - 107

The Readers' Picks - 52


Bioshock Infinite - 43

The Critics' Picks - 40

The Readers' Picks - 3

[URL="http://gotypicks.blogspot.ca/2013/09/2013-game-of-year.html"]http://gotypicks.blogspot.ca/2013/09/2013-game-of-year.html[/URL]

A source that highlights all that sites and their winners.

[QUOTE]The Last of Us has sold 3.4 million units worldwide in its first three works according to Sony SNE +0.00%.

Earlier this year we reported that the game was also the number one launch of the year, moving 1.3 million units in its first week.

Naughty Dog

[QUOTE=West-Side]Just click on the PS4 you ****ing moron, and you'll see the sales.

Hey goof, read very carefully.

* The Winners of this year *


[B]The Last of Us - 249

The Critics' Picks - 191

The Readers' Picks - 58[/B]


Grand Theft Auto V - 159

The Critics' Picks - 107

The Readers' Picks - 52


Bioshock Infinite - 43

The Critics' Picks - 40

The Readers' Picks - 3

[URL="http://gotypicks.blogspot.ca/2013/09/2013-game-of-year.html"]http://gotypicks.blogspot.ca/2013/09/2013-game-of-year.html[/URL]

A source that highlights all that sites and their winners.[/QUOTE]
So it still lost on a bunch of sites? Loke metacritic those aggregates ate useless when they include all sites like the international versions of ps only magazines. Its another reason you should read up on how the industry is trying to get away from these things.

In the future say it win goty in some places.

Im not clicking on every link on your page when theres numerous others telling me the witcher 3 sold 6mil in 6 weeks which is far more than tlou remastered. Stop manipulating facts and stop making claims that aren't 100% true.

Why not link the forbes article about witcher 3 sales?
[url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/08/27/the-witcher-3-sold-6-million-copies-in-its-first-6-weeks/[/url]

You are acting like euroleague putting your own rules on things and ignoring things that don't fit your picture

[QUOTE=outbreak]So it still lost on a bunch of sites? Loke metacritic those aggregates ate useless when they include all sites like the international versions of ps only magazines. Its another reason you should read up on how the industry is trying to get away from these things.

In the future say it win goty in some places.

Im not clicking on every link on your page when theres numerous others telling me the witcher 3 sold 6mil in 6 weeks which is far more than tlou remastered. Stop manipulating facts and stop making claims that aren't 100% true.[/QUOTE]

:facepalm

Are you for real?
You just called me out about TLOU not winning GOTY, and I gave you a source breaking down how many publishers named TLOU the winner. Beating the same game you claimed was the winner. :rolleyes: You ****ing named Zelda, a game that didn't even finish 3rd in the race.

You're so pathetic its funny, calling me out when you're talking out of your ass. I just showed you a source that said TLOU sold 3.4 million copies on ONE platform in THREE weeks. Witcher is a multi-platform game as well, and is a sequel. TLOU is a new IP and still received rediculous regocnition for a genre that's no where near as popular as an RPG or FPS or Sandbox.

That only highlights how great the game is.

[QUOTE=outbreak]So it still lost on a bunch of sites? Loke metacritic those aggregates ate useless when they include all sites like the international versions of ps only magazines. Its another reason you should read up on how the industry is trying to get away from these things.

In the future say it win goty in some places.

Im not clicking on every link on your page when theres numerous others telling me the witcher 3 sold 6mil in 6 weeks which is far more than tlou remastered. Stop manipulating facts and stop making claims that aren't 100% true.

Why not link the forbes article about witcher 3 sales?
[url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/08/27/the-witcher-3-sold-6-million-copies-in-its-first-6-weeks/[/url]

You are acting like euroleague putting your own rules on things and ignoring things that don't fit your picture[/QUOTE]

Okay, and as of June 2014, TLOU exceeded the 7 million copies mark.
What's your point?

Games like Witcher and Call of Duty are far more popular anyways and they have the advantage of being a multi-plat game.

[URL="http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/the-last-of-us-sales-pass-7-million-with-new-dlc-coming"]http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/the-last-of-us-sales-pass-7-million-with-new-dlc-coming[/URL]

That was over a year ago now.
TLOU is an exclusive as well, and the genre is action-adventure.
It's never really going to outsell a FPS game like Call of Duty or RPG like Skyrim. The fanbase is too large and they aren't exclusives.

Think before you speak.

You never said you were only including certain platforms in your sales. Yes it gets a benefit being mutli plat but you never said that you just made claims as if true that weren't.

You claimed it won goty when on some sites it didnt. Goty isnt a universale award.

Quit being full of shit and quit making blanket statements that aren't true.

Its fine if you like a game and tlou is a good game but stop making silly claims. Its a video game. Some people don't enjoy things as much as you do. When you turn 13 maybe you can accept these things.

[QUOTE=outbreak]You never said you were only including certain platforms in your sales. Yes it gets a benefit being mutli plat but you never said that you just made claims as if true that weren't.

[B]You claimed it won goty when on some sites it didnt. Goty isnt a universale award.[/B]

Quit being full of shit and quit making blanket statements that aren't true.

Its fine if you like a game and tlou is a good game but stop making silly claims. Its a video game. Some people don't enjoy things as much as you do. When you turn 13 maybe you can accept these things.[/QUOTE]

Then how do you define GOTY. :oldlol:
TLOU received the [B]most[/B] votes from game critics, so its considered the best game of the year, no?

Similar to the way in the NBA we vote for the MVP.
Kobe might receive 98 votes, Duncan 101 and Shaq 160.
Who's the winner?

Someone's butt hurt because I make too much sense.
I don't care if you don't like TLOU, to (you) it isn't one of the best games ever. To me it is.
The gaming world tends to agree a lot more with my views than yours, in regards to this particular topic.

Get over it.

49th best. The Scottie Pippen of video games. Respekt. :applause:

As far as number of reviews, that's purely a product of the internet age. Newer games will get more reviews than older games because they're newer and will be looked at by more reviewers because the internet. We're going to fault games for the era that they were created in?

I'm not even trying to argue that Last of Us isn't a great game, just that it doesn't belong in a video game pantheon and has no case for being the GOAT game. Because it doesn't.

We seriously gonna act like Ocarina wouldn't have been praised as the GOAT by more people if there had been more people to review it? It has held up incredibly well and is still widely recognized as the GOAT game despite an influx of new titles since.

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]49th best. The Scottie Pippen of video games. Respekt. :applause:

As far as number of reviews, that's purely a product of the internet age. Newer games will get more reviews than older games because they're newer and will be looked at by more reviewers because the internet. We're going to fault games for the era that they were created in?

[B]I'm not even trying to argue that Last of Us isn't a great game, just that it doesn't belong in a video game pantheon and has no case for being the GOAT game. Because it doesn't.[/B]

We seriously gonna act like Ocarina wouldn't have been praised as the GOAT by more people if there had been more people to review it? It has held up incredibly well and is still widely recognized as the GOAT game despite an influx of new titles since.[/QUOTE]

That's your opinion.
And yes, Ocarina would not have received a 99 overall rating if more reviews were made about the game. I've already demonstrated to you two different sources. The reviews scores were lower as more reviews were accumulated.

It's not the 49th best game either because there are many duplicates.
For example, GTA IV is rated 98 for both PS3 & X360. GTA V is rated 97 for XONE, PS3, PC and PS4. Pro Skater 2 is rated for both PS & DC).

1) Ocarina
2) Pro Skater 2
3) GTA IV
5) SoulCalibur
6) Super Mario Galaxy
7) Super Mario Galaxy 2
8) GTA V
9) Pro Skater 3
10) Perfect Dark
11) Metroid Prime
12) GTA III
13) Halo
14) NFL 2K1
15) Half-Life 2
16) GoldenEye 007
17) Uncharted 2
18) Resident Evil 4
19) The Orange Box
20) Arkham City
21) Tekken 3
22) Mass Effect 2
23) Twilight Princess
24) Skyrim
25) Half-Life
26) The Wind Waker
27) Gran Turismo
28) BioShock
29) MGS 2

Those are the only games that are actually rated higher.
Out of those games, only seven of them have a higher user score than TLOU.
Most of these games are also on multi-platform.
Majority of those older games have less than 30 reviews.
TLOU has 98 reviews, and still maintained an impressive 95 rating.

On PS3, only Arkham City, GTA V & GTA IV have a higher critic score.
None of those games have a higher user score than TLOU.

TLOU also won GOTY over GTA V.

Yeah it has no case whatsoever.
:rolleyes:

Ocarina still #1. :applause:

[QUOTE=Shade8780]you're trolling.

this is just unreal.[/QUOTE]

Coming to the same conclusion.

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]Ocarina still #1. :applause:



Coming to the same conclusion.[/QUOTE]

I'm interested in hearing which games qualify for the GOAT discussion?
I mean, to idiots like Shade its the MGS; despite TLOU receiving more recognition.

Name me 10 games you think are better games.

[QUOTE=West-Side]Then how do you define GOTY. :oldlol:
TLOU received the [B]most[/B] votes from game critics, so its considered the best game of the year, no?

Similar to the way in the NBA we vote for the MVP.
Kobe might receive 98 votes, Duncan 101 and Shaq 160.
Who's the winner?

Someone's butt hurt because I make too much sense.
I don't care if you don't like TLOU, to (you) it isn't one of the best games ever. To me it is.
The gaming world tends to agree a lot more with my views than yours, in regards to this particular topic.

Get over it.[/QUOTE]

GOTY awards are handed out by outlets based on different criteria and systems.

YOU need to read up on this because it's an issue the industry has been trying to fix recently. I know i have friends in the industry. Right now publishers uses things like metacritic and aggregate sites like the goty one you linked as a means to determine if a team gets their bonus and it's bullshit.

Those sites don't curate they data. They grab things from all over the shop and it can skew the results or be misleading. It's more akin to the MVP award being given out based on ALL media including ISH's opinion. It polls unreliable sources and biased sources as well as legit sources.

I'm not arguing tlou didn't win a lot of awards, the game did well and was a good game, what I am arguing is you acting like GOTY is a single award handed out. It isn't, every outlet gives it's own GOTY award and you should have posted some reliable places where it won (because it did win in many reliable places). Tlou is a good game, this has gone on too long. Your list was narrow and you've said yourself you left out a lot of games and plat forms so i think it's time to just acknowledge some people value different aspects of games and rate games differently.

Greater and better aren't the exact same thing. It's like comparing the GOAT NBA players to the most skilled; there's definite overlap but it's not absolute.

If I had to create a top 10 GOAT list(no order outside of the #1 spot):

Ocarina of Time
Diablo (though I prefer 2/3 to the original)
Half-Life (preferred the sequel, either could slot in here)
Chrono Trigger
Link to the Past
DOOM (sequel was just as good, if not better)
Super Mario 64
FFVII
Majora's Mask
Super Metroid

Games that would come close and could possibly slot in on a different day: Street Fighter II, Oblivion (ugh), Shadow of the Colossus, possibly Bioshock or the first Halo, Resident Evil 2/4, CS, Civilization, Quake, UT, TF2, WCIII, etc.

If I reworked it to include the top 10 BOAT, majority of what's there would stay but some of the fringe games that I listed might move into a spot.

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]Greater and better aren't the exact same thing. It's like comparing the GOAT NBA players to the most skilled; there's definite overlap but it's not absolute.

If I had to create a top 10 GOAT list(no order outside of the #1 spot):

Ocarina of Time
Diablo (though I prefer 2/3 to the original)
Half-Life (preferred the sequel, either could slot in here)
Chrono Trigger
Link to the Past
DOOM (sequel was just as good, if not better)
Super Mario 64
FFVII
Majora's Mask
Super Metroid

Games that would come close and could possibly slot in on a different day: Street Fighter II, Oblivion (ugh), Shadow of the Colossus, possibly Bioshock or the first Halo, Resident Evil 2/4, CS, Civilization, Quake, UT, TF2, WCIII, etc.

If I reworked it to include the top 10 BOAT, majority of what's there would stay but some of the fringe games that I listed might move into a spot.[/QUOTE]

See I don't agree with everything on your list but it's a much more fair list imo. A list like that wouldn't make me go "wtf"

[QUOTE=outbreak]See I don't agree with everything on your list but it's a much more fair list imo. A list like that wouldn't make me go "wtf"[/QUOTE]

I'm definitely forgetting things. There are too many great games out there, I'm looking through my Steam library now and regretting not mentioning certain series/games as being borderline already. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]

As far as number of reviews, that's purely a product of the internet age. Newer games will get more reviews than older games because they're newer and will be looked at by more reviewers because the internet. We're going to fault games for the era that they were created in?
[/QUOTE]

this is essentially how i felt reading through all the posts in here, citing review, on top of review, on top of review.

[QUOTE=Shade8780]Beating out all-time greats like Destiny and Watch Dogs?

Seriously though, Shadow of Mordor and Dragon Age are the best games of 2014.[/QUOTE]

If we're including remasters? Hell no. TLOU and GTA V absolutely shit on everything that came out that year.

[IMG]http://www.mtgeezer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Legend-of-Zelda-Ocarina-of-Time-Title-Screen.png[/IMG]

GOAT. :applause:

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]Greater and better aren't the exact same thing. It's like comparing the GOAT NBA players to the most skilled; there's definite overlap but it's not absolute.

If I had to create a top 10 GOAT list(no order outside of the #1 spot):

Ocarina of Time
Diablo (though I prefer 2/3 to the original)
Half-Life (preferred the sequel, either could slot in here)
Chrono Trigger
Link to the Past
DOOM (sequel was just as good, if not better)
Super Mario 64
FFVII
Majora's Mask
Super Metroid

Games that would come close and could possibly slot in on a different day: Street Fighter II, Oblivion (ugh), Shadow of the Colossus, possibly Bioshock or the first Halo, Resident Evil 2/4, CS, Civilization, Quake, UT, TF2, WCIII, etc.

If I reworked it to include the top 10 BOAT, majority of what's there would stay but some of the fringe games that I listed might move into a spot.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for at least sharing your list.
I think the problem we have is simply difference in preference.
A LOT of these games would never make my list, I do not play RPG's at all honestly. The most time I've spent on an RPG was with Mass Effect 2, Skyrim and Jade Empire.

I think Halo 1, BioShock, all the Zelda's, Half Life 2, Super Mario 64, Chrono Trigger would definitely be games I'd consider as the greatest of all-time.

But there's games like Oblivion and Shadows, or FF I just wouldn't. I don't enjoy them at all, and I've given them my share of time.

The thing I don't understand about your point of view is you have no problem including a game like BioShock yet you have a problem including The Last Of Us? Both have received a lot of praise from the gaming world and both are classics. There are MANY people that consider TLOU the best title during the PS3 generation.

If you receive such praise, I'm pretty sure you're worthy of being in the discussion with the best of the best.

In conclusion, we have completely different taste. I could never stand games like Diablo or Final Fantasy etc. It's also funny how you haven't mentioned a single action-adventure title; which is arguably my favorite genre. Or sandbox games (GTA, RDR) which is also a genre I love.

I also love sport games and you didn't mention NFL 2K series.

So we'll just agree to disagree on this discussion.
I have no problem whatsoever with you putting up Ocarina as the GOAT; it truly is a master-piece, and deserves the praise.

You might have a hard time believing this, but I genuinely enjoyed RDR, U2 and TLOU more. It just fits my preference more.

I like games I can beat in a week or so. Every time I start an RPG game, I get bored and quit. I did play on 3 sports teams in high school and still do baseball, golf and football regularly, which is probably why I could never get involved with an RPG game.

Anyways thanks for sharing your list.
Cheers.

It's the best game I've played.

The singleplayer deserves all the praise it gets and the online multiplayer (Factions) is pretty amazing too.

[QUOTE=T_L_P]It's the best game I've played.

The singleplayer deserves all the praise it gets and the online multiplayer (Factions) is pretty amazing too.[/QUOTE]

It's funny; myself, you, Heavincent and I'm sure a few others on this forum would consider TLOU a candidate for GOAT game.

I know my boy Thorpe loves that game too.
I guess this is a case of preference. I will never understand how people love games like Diablo or Oblivion, because I simply don't enjoy those type of games. But I know millions of gamers do, and I can respect them picking it as GOAT candidate.

I guess this discussion was unnecessary for the simple fact that we'll never agree. To me, TLOU is definitely a GOAT candidate but then there are people who simply don't agree and have a different game (that I don't enjoy) as a candidate.

The problem becomes simple.
We are arguing subjective matters here; I enjoy a game like TLOU because my expectations are simply different than other gamers. They prefer a role-playing game, or a FPS game and that's fine. We'll agree to disagree.

The point that I've been trying to make is that you have to look past personal preferences when it comes to greatness, as odd as that might sound. I've come to ****ing hate Oblivion but I can still acknowledge that it was a great game, even though it wasn't one that I liked. Same thing applies to Street Fighter II (and the rest of the series/fighting genre as a whole, can't stand it anymore). A list of my 10 favourite games would look quite different (and there would probably be at least 5 Zelda titles :oldlol:).

Sports games just haven't had the same kind of impact or drawn the same kind of praise as the other titles that I listed, imo. I'm a fan of baseball games, same thing with NBA 2K, but I was trying to separate favouritism from greatness. The only two sports games that I can think of off of the top of my head that might have a shot would be Tecmo Bowl and Punch Out.

Action-adventure is a fairly broad genre though, several games that I listed could fit into it (even if only partially). Zelda, Resident Evil, Oblivion, Final Fantasy, etc. are all action-adventure games, even if they fit into different sub-genres.

:cheers:

[QUOTE=West-Side]I'm interested in hearing which games qualify for the GOAT discussion?
I mean, [B]to idiots like Shade its the MGS[/B]; despite TLOU receiving more recognition.

Name me 10 games you think are better games.[/QUOTE]
:banghead:

i swear, i've [I]never[/I] come across a more annoying person on the internet. you're so fvcking immature it's incredible.

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]The point that I've been trying to make is that you have to look past personal preferences when it comes to greatness, as odd as that might sound. I've come to ****ing hate Oblivion but I can still acknowledge that it was a great game, even though it wasn't one that I liked. Same thing applies to Street Fighter II (and the rest of the series/fighting genre as a whole, can't stand it anymore). A list of my 10 favourite games would look quite different (and there would probably be at least 5 Zelda titles :oldlol:).

Sports games just haven't had the same kind of impact or drawn the same kind of praise as the other titles that I listed, imo. I'm a fan of baseball games, same thing with NBA 2K, but I was trying to separate favouritism from greatness. The only two sports games that I can think of off of the top of my head that might have a shot would be Tecmo Bowl and Punch Out.

Action-adventure is a fairly broad genre though, several games that I listed could fit into it (even if only partially). Zelda, Resident Evil, Oblivion, Final Fantasy, etc. are all action-adventure games, even if they fit into different sub-genres.

:cheers:[/QUOTE]

[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered_the_best"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered_the_best[/URL]

Well, 13 sources have considered TLOU the best game ever made.
It is by FAR the latest entry into the gaming world as well.
The 2nd entry was Shadow of the Colossus, which was developed in 2005.

I mean you did name BioShock, a game that received 14 similar considerations yet was released 6 years earlier.

Majora's Mask received 16 considerations and was released 13 years earlier.
Half-Life received 17 considerations and was released 15 years earlier.
Doom was released 20 years ago, and only received 4 more considerations.

You have to remember, TLOU was only released 2 years ago and already beat out games like Mega Man 2, Final Fantasy IV, Metroid, Mass Effect 2, Gran Turismo, Chrono Cross, Twilight Princess.

It is a worthy candidate.

[QUOTE]For some strange reason, Resident Evil 4 kept coming up in my head as I advanced through The Last of Us. Both seem like completely different games at first glance. However, the more I thought about it, the more similarities kept popping up. Not necessarily in a gaming sense, but more on a personal level. Resident Evil 4 was released in January of 2005, and completely revolutionized action games. It set the new standard and every great series from God of War to Uncharted has seen some inspiration from it. I didn

[QUOTE=West-Side]Thanks for at least sharing your list.
I think the problem we have is simply difference in preference.
A LOT of these games would never make my list, I do not play RPG's at all honestly. The most time I've spent on an RPG was with Mass Effect 2, Skyrim and Jade Empire.

I think Halo 1, BioShock, all the Zelda's, Half Life 2, Super Mario 64, Chrono Trigger would definitely be games I'd consider as the greatest of all-time.

But there's games like Oblivion and Shadows, or FF I just wouldn't. I don't enjoy them at all, and I've given them my share of time.

The thing I don't understand about your point of view is you have no problem including a game like BioShock yet you have a problem including The Last Of Us? Both have received a lot of praise from the gaming world and both are classics. There are MANY people that consider TLOU the best title during the PS3 generation.

If you receive such praise, I'm pretty sure you're worthy of being in the discussion with the best of the best.

In conclusion, we have completely different taste. I could never stand games like Diablo or Final Fantasy etc. It's also funny how you haven't mentioned a single action-adventure title; which is arguably my favorite genre. Or sandbox games (GTA, RDR) which is also a genre I love.

I also love sport games and you didn't mention NFL 2K series.

So we'll just agree to disagree on this discussion.
I have no problem whatsoever with you putting up Ocarina as the GOAT; it truly is a master-piece, and deserves the praise.

You might have a hard time believing this, but I genuinely enjoyed RDR, U2 and TLOU more. It just fits my preference more.

I like games I can beat in a week or so. Every time I start an RPG game, I get bored and quit. I did play on 3 sports teams in high school and still do baseball, golf and football regularly, which is probably why I could never get involved with an RPG game.

Anyways thanks for sharing your list.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]

Without drawing from metacritic or published reviews can you tell me why YOU think ocarina is a masterpiece?

[QUOTE=West-Side]Thanks for at least sharing your list.
I think the problem we have is simply difference in preference.
[/QUOTE]
DING DING DING DING!!!

[QUOTE=nightlight]Without drawing from metacritic or published reviews can you tell me why YOU think ocarina is a masterpiece?[/QUOTE]
I've been asking that for weeks.

You're not getting it.

[QUOTE=nightlight]Without drawing from metacritic or published reviews can you tell me why YOU think ocarina is a masterpiece?[/QUOTE]

I think mainly because of the story itself.
I loved the supporting characters and enemies.
But most importantly, the sense of adventure. The maturation that Link must go to succeed was great characterization. Also, the purpose of the adventure makes it extremely intriguing to play.

I am definitely a sucker for a well-written game and Ocarina really achieved that. The music was superb as well. Ultimately, it was the freedom and more importantly interactivity that I felt throughout the quest. I also thought the narrative was well developed.

Ultimately, I seem to really enjoy well written game that connect me to the characters. It is probably one of the longest games I've ever actually beaten.

(Note: I haven't played Ocarina in years though, so my memory is cloudy)

Which characters? Zelda was a damsel in distress. Nothing earth shattering there. What sets it apart from a link to the past? One is a shift fomr light to dark and the other is a leap in time. Adventure? It's formulaic Zelda collect stuff, get stronger, collect more stuff, fight Gannon.

It's not fun when people attack you for having your own opinion is it?

My point is -- relax. Stop being so abrasive towards anyone with a different opinion than your own. There's no correct answer, and it doesn't make shit of a difference if metacritic falls in line with your own personal taste in gaming.

But all of that feeds into an earlier point that I made about reviews; newer games are going to be reviewed more because there are so many more video game publications, websites, etc.

Think about where PC gaming (and really, gaming as a whole) was when DOOM was released. The majority of pre-DOOM great games were either Nintendo products or arcade style games, DOOM was something entirely different. From Wikipedia,
[QUOTE=]Doom was widely praised in the gaming press and is broadly considered to be one of the most important and influential titles in gaming history.[/QUOTE]

THAT is why it's a [B]great[/B] game. Modern FPS games owe their existence to DOOM and a handful of other early shooters that broke ground for them. DOOM (along with DOOM II) is one of my all-time favourite games, but that's not why I think that it's great. It's great because it defined the FPS genre, drew critical acclaim, revolutionized online gaming, and continues to be a relevant part of gaming today. You guys are posting Last of Us sales that totaled what, 8-9 million between the base game and the remastered edition? That's in a modern era where everyone has a gaming system and everyone is being drawn into game releases. DOOM was played by 15-20 million people within two years of release; it was the birth of mainstream PC gaming.

That's why DOOM topping 4 lists, or whatever the number was, is irrelevant to its greatness.

Every game that I listed in my primary list, with the possible exception of Majora's Mask (which is a fringe top-10 title) was either genre or gaming defining:

[QUOTE=]Ocarina of Time
Diablo (though I prefer 2/3 to the original)
Half-Life (preferred the sequel, either could slot in here)
Chrono Trigger
Link to the Past
DOOM (sequel was just as good, if not better)
Super Mario 64
FFVII
Majora's Mask
Super Metroid[/QUOTE]

Ocarina brought graphics, storytelling, gameplay, an immersive 3D world, a near flawless combat system, etc.

Diablo was a prototypical dungeon crawler, influenced the development of future action RPGs, could be counted as an early MMO with its multiplayer component, and spawned countless Diablo imitations and clones in the same way that DOOM influenced FPS games.

Half-Life was the best post-DOOM FPS (at least partially because it brought a significant degree of originality) and brought storytelling, an immersive and detailed environment, a complex and interactive gaming experience, and was also the starting point for two of the best multiplayer FPS games ever in CS and TF2.

Every game that I listed had a similar type of effect as those listed above, though the scope differs from game to game. They're not great games because I like them, they're great games because they're pinnacles of the gaming world and just happened to be exceptional games in their own right. Preference has nothing to do with the games that I named, they're there for what they brought to the table in the immediate and distant gaming world, and their flawless execution of it.

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]But all of that feeds into an earlier point that I made about reviews; newer games are going to be reviewed more because there are so many more video game publications, websites, etc.

Think about where PC gaming (and really, gaming as a whole) was when DOOM was released. The majority of pre-DOOM great games were either Nintendo products or arcade style games, DOOM was something entirely different. From Wikipedia,


THAT is why it's a [B]great[/B] game. Modern FPS games owe their existence to DOOM and a handful of other early shooters that broke ground for them. DOOM (along with DOOM II) is one of my all-time favourite games, but that's not why I think that it's great. It's great because it defined the FPS genre, drew critical acclaim, revolutionized online gaming, and continues to be a relevant part of gaming today. You guys are posting Last of Us sales that totaled what, 8-9 million between the base game and the remastered edition? That's in a modern era where everyone has a gaming system and everyone is being drawn into game releases. DOOM was played by 15-20 million people within two years of release; it was the birth of mainstream PC gaming.

That's why DOOM topping 4 lists, or whatever the number was, is irrelevant to its greatness.

Every game that I listed in my primary list, with the possible exception of Majora's Mask (which is a fringe top-10 title) was either genre or gaming defining:



Ocarina brought graphics, storytelling, gameplay, an immersive 3D world, a near flawless combat system, etc.

Diablo was a prototypical dungeon crawler, influenced the development of future action RPGs, could be counted as an early MMO with its multiplayer component, and spawned countless Diablo imitations and clones in the same way that DOOM influenced FPS games.

Half-Life was the best post-DOOM FPS (at least partially because it brought a significant degree of originality) and brought storytelling, an immersive and detailed environment, a complex and interactive gaming experience, and was also the starting point for two of the best multiplayer FPS games ever in CS and TF2.

Every game that I listed had a similar type of effect as those listed above, though the scope differs from game to game. They're not great games because I like them, they're great games because they're pinnacles of the gaming world and just happened to be exceptional games in their own right. Preference has nothing to do with the games that I named, they're there for what they brought to the table in the immediate and distant gaming world, and their flawless execution of it.[/QUOTE]

So is Julius Erving better than Michael Jordan because he was considered a pioneer?

I think maybe you ought to stop mentioning why those games you mentioned are great and start realizing why so many people consider TLOU a great game.

Have you honestly even played it?

[URL="http://www.empireonline.com/features/100greatestgames/game.asp?title=1"]Yet, I have no case.[/URL]

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]Every game that I listed had a similar type of effect as those listed above, though the scope differs from game to game. They're not great games because I like them, they're great games because [B]they're pinnacles of the gaming world and just happened to be exceptional games in their own right.[/B] Preference has nothing to do with the games that I named, [B]they're there for what they brought to the table in the immediate and distant gaming world, and their flawless execution of it.[/B][/QUOTE]

That should make it more than clear that games aren't being considered just because they're pioneers. They all remain flawless or near flawless titles today despite their age.

I have played Last of Us, though I didn't finish it. Didn't do anything special for me. I think that I mentioned earlier though, liking a game has jack shit to do with ranking with it as far as greatness. I didn't like Oblivion or Street Fighter, Civilization has fallen out of my personal favour, SC has gotten boring (just realized that I forgot to mention this in my list), etc. but I still acknowledge them as great games for what they did [B]and what they are[/B].

You're citing one list from a website/magazine that focuses primarily on movie reviews. Is it any surprise that they're picking a modern, plot-centric title? They have Skyrim over Oblivion and Morrowind, Call of Duty over DOOM, Tomb Raider over Majora's Mask, Diablo II without mention of the original, Chrono Trigger all the way down at 76...I could poke holes in their credibility all day.

If all you're going to post is lists/reviews, let's end this here. We're bringing fundamentally different perspectives on greatness to the table and it looks like there's no way that either of us will break ground on the other's view.

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]That should make it more than clear that games aren't being considered just because they're pioneers. They all remain flawless or near flawless titles today despite their age.

[B]I have played Last of Us, though I didn't finish it. Didn't do anything special for me.[/B] I think that I mentioned earlier though, liking a game has jack shit to do with ranking with it as far as greatness. I didn't like Oblivion or Street Fighter, Civilization has fallen out of my personal favour, SC has gotten boring (just realized that I forgot to mention this in my list), etc. but I still acknowledge them as great games for what they did [B]and what they are[/B].

You're citing one list from a website/magazine that focuses primarily on movie reviews. Is it any surprise that they're picking a modern, plot-centric title? They have Skyrim over Oblivion and Morrowind, Call of Duty over DOOM, Tomb Raider over Majora's Mask, Diablo II without mention of the original, Chrono Trigger all the way down at 76...I could poke holes in their credibility all day.

If all you're going to post is lists/reviews, let's end this here. We're bringing fundamentally different perspectives on greatness to the table and it looks like there's no way that either of us will break ground on the other's view.[/QUOTE]

Okay fair enough, and close to 75% of the games you listed didn't do anything for me. None of them were special to me, which is why so many of them I bought but never finished.

You just act like your criteria is somehow fundamentally correct when evaluating games, and mine isn't.

If you really care, I could write a detailed review on why I believe TLOU is very much a candidate but I feel like I'd be wasting my time.

[QUOTE=West-Side]You just act like your criteria is somehow fundamentally correct when evaluating games, and mine isn't.

If you really care, I could write a detailed review on why I believe TLOU is very much a candidate but I feel like I'd be wasting my time.[/QUOTE]
Thing is though we haven't seen your criteria, just lists on top of lists.

I don't mean to speak for others, but I would like to see why you think it's the GOAT. That's what this discussion always should've been.

Impact, game quality, and originality seem like solid criteria to me, but I digress. Agree to disagree looks like all we've got. :oldlol:

[URL="http://www.businessinsider.com/the-top-50-video-games-of-all-time--ranked-2014-11?op=1"]Ranks TLOU 16th best of all-time[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gamesradar.com/best-games-ever/"]GamesRadar ranks it 14th best[/URL]

The point I'm making is simple: it is consistently mentions among the top 20 or so best games of all time. Some lists have it in the top 10, some have in the top 5.

It's funny, I also see similarities between their lists and yours. A lot of the games you consider GOAT, are also on these same lists. Yet you think TLOU doesn't deserve to be considered with them.

Last of Us was a good game, and definitely one of the better games to come out of 2013, but I don't know about best game ever made. That's pretty high praise for a game that I don't think will have any real lasting impact on the industry.

[QUOTE=nightprowler10]Thing is though we haven't seen your criteria, just lists on top of lists.

I don't mean to speak for others, but I would like to see why you think it's the GOAT. That's what this discussion always should've been.[/QUOTE]

For me, the video in the OP perfectly summarizes why it's such a great game. I'll post the link again because I don't think anyone actually watched it and just focused on the list [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzVwbs-lsg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzVwbs-lsg[/URL] He puts it more elegantly than I ever could.