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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14508792]Both MUCH better than Kawhi[/QUOTE]
I'd argue peak Kawhi is right there with peak Kobe and I'd almost take Kawhi to start a team if I had the guarantee of good health (which I never would)..
Think about what Kawhi did on that 2019 run - destroyed goat Giannis and goat threesome Curry/Klay/Dray... no suspsension needed.. no comeback needed.. no equal-scoring partner needed (defeated max defensive attention)
Kobe's peak was just a lot longer - 2000-2010
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=3ba11;14508822]I'd argue peak Kawhi is right there with peak Kobe and I'd almost take Kawhi to start a team if I had the guarantee of good health (which I never would)..
Think about what Kawhi did on that 2019 run - destroyed goat Giannis and goat threesome Curry/Klay/Dray... [B]no suspsension needed.. no comeback needed.. no equal-scoring partner needed (defeated max defensive attention)[/B]
Kobe's peak was just a lot longer - 2000-2010[/QUOTE]
Only injuries to Durant & Klay needed
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14508824]Only injuries to Durant & Klay needed[/QUOTE]
Klay missing 1 game was offset by the Dray suspension - Kawhi otherwise beat a dominant Klay/Curry (26 & 31 ppg), while Lebron beat an inexperienced, bed-wetting Klay/Curry.
And KD played a quarter (12 points), which won one of the games.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=3ba11;14508829]Klay missing 1 game was offset by the Dray suspension - Kawhi otherwise beat a dominant Klay/Curry (26 & 31 ppg), while Lebron beat an inexperienced, bed-wetting Klay/Curry.
And KD played a quarter (12 points), which won one of the games.[/QUOTE]
Klay missed a game AND two separate 4th quarters, including the 4th in Game 6 when he was clearly best player on the floor before he got injured.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14508832]Klay missed a game AND two separate 4th quarters, including the 4th in Game 6 when he was clearly best player on the floor before he got injured.[/QUOTE]
splitting hairs now
Kawhi's goat win over the goat threesome of Curry/Klay/Dray is confirmed by him teaching Giannis how it's done in the previous round.. True goats have guys that cut their teeth on them.. I guess Lebron has Derozan, lol....
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=3ba11;14508840]splitting hairs now
Kawhi's goat win over the goat threesome of Curry/Klay/Dray is confirmed by him teaching Giannis how it's done in the previous round.. True goats have guys that cut their teeth on them.. I guess Lebron has Derozan, lol....[/QUOTE]
You want to bring up Dray missing one game then brag about Giannis' title run with legitimately every contender facing significant injuries :lol
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14508844]You want to bring up Dray missing one game then brag about Giannis' title run with legitimately every contender facing significant injuries :lol[/QUOTE]
I brought up dray missing 1 game because you brought up klay missing 1 game
As for Giannis - that's a talent level and performance that Lebron never reached, so not sure why you'd bring him up... A guy MORE powerful and superior to Lebron in pretty much every way (and no, we don't like high APG players/ball-dominators)
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=3ba11;14508846]I brought up dray missing 1 game because you brought up klay missing 1 game
As for Giannis - that's a talent level and performance that Lebron never reached, so not sure why you'd bring him up... A guy MORE powerful and superior to Lebron in pretty much every way (and no, we don't like high APG players/ball-dominators)[/QUOTE]
Superior to LeBron huh :lol
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/tMGnRnJ/Screenshot-2021-07-20-180658.png[/IMG]
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
Greek freak was big scottie pippen before the 2021 finals but soon enough that immediately changed after he went in it. Krazy. :biggums:
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=Axe;14508894]Greek freak was big scottie pippen before the 2021 finals but soon enough that immediately changed after he went in it. Krazy. :biggums:[/QUOTE]
He was never a Scottie not with back to back MVP’s. He was maybe like a David Robinson or something like that.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14508824]Only injuries to Durant & Klay needed[/QUOTE]
Same thing in 2016 except got someone suspended on purpose. And then they had more injuries after that with Iggy, Bogut, Curry was already hurt.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
Most players felt Kobe was better.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
No players feel Kawhi's better.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14544529]No players feel Kawhi's better.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://theundefeated.com/features/kawhi-leonard-is-the-best-player-on-the-planet/[/url]
Also Max Kellerman
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
Kobe also head to head used to destroy Lebron as well and this before Lebron switched teams.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
The debate will end up being Kobe vs Giannis.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=kawhileonard2;14567257]The debate will end up being Kobe vs Giannis.[/QUOTE]
Looking that way now
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
I love Kobe but Lebron is the better more impactful player out of the two just better all around brings more to the table
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=Sportal;13810754]
You would start a franchise with LeBron over Kobe
[/Quote]
Lebron ties a coach's hands into playing 1 way and has the worst teammate fits and chemistry ever, so he needs a lot more help than Kobe and has lower team ceilings/Finals records.. Finals record is a measure of team ceiling and Lebron's is lower
So no - Kobe is much easier to build around because his goat scoring versatility fits with everyone and allows the best brand of ball, so he has better teams with less help
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=3ba11;14596269]Lebron ties a coach's hands into playing 1 way and has the worst teammate fits and chemistry ever, so he needs a lot more help than Kobe and has lower team ceilings/Finals records.. Finals record is a measure of team ceiling and Lebron's is lower
So no - Kobe is much easier to build around because his goat scoring versatility fits with everyone and allows the best brand of ball, so he has better teams with less help[/QUOTE]
Say what you will about 3ball but hes telling the truth here. Spot on kobe fits better
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
the heat and cavs played similar. the lakers didn't play anything like those championship teams. 3tard and gotard both dumb af.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14596361]the heat and cavs played similar. the lakers didn't play anything like those championship teams. 3tard and gotard both dumb af.[/QUOTE]
Why are you breathing?
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=Gohan;14596392]Why are you breathing?[/QUOTE]
fatboy got shit on with facts and now he's mad.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14596401]fatboy got shit on with facts and now he's mad.[/QUOTE]
Fat? Rofl yo momma got crabs
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
The initial instinct is Bron with his superior efficiency numbers but considering TRUE alpha mentality, defense and overall skill? Peak for peak, I lean towards Kobe. As 3ball has said many times, Kobe fosters a superior brand of ball. He mastered the triangle just like MJ. That means he can play off ball, within a system, with more flow.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=3ba11;14596269]Lebron ties a coach's hands into playing 1 way and has the worst teammate fits and chemistry ever, so he needs a lot more help than Kobe and has lower team ceilings/Finals records.. Finals record is a measure of team ceiling and Lebron's is lower
So no - Kobe is much easier to build around because his goat scoring versatility fits with everyone and allows the best brand of ball, so he has better teams with less help[/QUOTE]
Yep Kobe is a much better fit.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival;14596424]The initial instinct is Bron with his superior efficiency numbers but considering TRUE alpha mentality, defense and overall skill? Peak for peak, I lean towards Kobe. As 3ball has said many times, Kobe fosters a superior brand of ball. He mastered the triangle just like MJ. That means he can play off ball, within a system, with more flow.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
Kobe missed the playoffs with Prime Dwight, LeBron won a championship with a washed up Dwight
case closed...
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival;14596424]The initial instinct is Bron with his superior efficiency numbers but considering [B]TRUE alpha mentality,[/B] defense and overall skill? Peak for peak, I lean towards Kobe. As 3ball has said many times, Kobe fosters a superior brand of ball. He mastered the triangle just like MJ. That means he can play off ball, within a system, with more flow.[/QUOTE]
Is this the alpha mentality you speak of???
Here are Kobe's finals stats
2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%
Here are Kobe's game seven stats.
44.2 MPG
22.2 points
FG 38.9%
FT 67.3%
8 RPG
5 APG
1 SPG
1.3 BPG
Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.
22.3 PPG
5.8 RPG
3.5 APG
1.3 SPG
1.3 BPG
on a 50.3 TS
:roll:
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
Bran can barely win a poll on ISH, and that's with 10+ alts voting for him on the same poll. If even ISH thinks that Kobe's better.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
Here are Kobe's finals stats
2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%
Here are Kobe's game seven stats.
44.2 MPG
22.2 points
FG 38.9%
FT 67.3%
8 RPG
5 APG
1 SPG
1.3 BPG
Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.
22.3 PPG
5.8 RPG
3.5 APG
1.3 SPG
1.3 BPG
on a 50.3 TS
:roll:
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
You can post averages across eras and pretend like it's better to get swept while padding stats, but the smart ones know that Kobe played a superior brand of basketball, which is why he won more with less help. Keep trying though, maybe you'll win someone over. You've been trying for over a decade.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
Here are Kobe's finals stats
2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%
Here are Kobe's game seven stats.
44.2 MPG
22.2 points
FG 38.9%
FT 67.3%
8 RPG
5 APG
1 SPG
1.3 BPG
Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.
22.3 PPG
5.8 RPG
3.5 APG
1.3 SPG
1.3 BPG
on a 50.3 TS
:roll: :roll:
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
LeBron eclipsed Kobe a while ago
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14596617]Here are Kobe's finals stats
2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%
Here are Kobe's game seven stats.
44.2 MPG
22.2 points
FG 38.9%
FT 67.3%
8 RPG
5 APG
1 SPG
1.3 BPG
Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.
22.3 PPG
5.8 RPG
3.5 APG
1.3 SPG
1.3 BPG
on a 50.3 TS
:roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Superior brand of basketball my ass.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=ImKobe;14596616]You can post averages across eras and pretend like it's better to get swept while padding stats, but the smart ones know that Kobe played a superior brand of basketball, which is why he won more with less help. Keep trying though, maybe you'll win someone over. You've been trying for over a decade.[/QUOTE]
Lolol, I still remember when you posted selective clutchtime stats for the playoffs, when I asked you to show them for 06-18 for LeBron compared to 01-12 for Kobe you were a goner :lol
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
I don’t even know if Kobe’s gonna be able to hold off Curry & Giannis at this point.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14596759]Lolol, I still remember when you posted selective clutchtime stats for the playoffs, when I asked you to show them for 06-18 for LeBron compared to 01-12 for Kobe you were a goner :lol[/QUOTE]
What? I think I quoted a post that had the Playoff clutch stats for their entire career. It might not have included the '18 run as I think the post I referenced was made prior to that season, but it wouldn't change the data that much based on how many Playoff games Bran already played at that point.
Here's the post I quoted which was made 5 years ago
[QUOTE]"Clutch" is 2 minutes left with margin of 3 in playoffs,
I will be only talking about Lebron and Kobe, considering these two were heads and shoulders beyond everyone else for their efficiency and volume.
Playoffs:
Lebron
He is 40/106 in clutch situation
His free throw shooting is 49/67
True Shooting is, 49.8%
Assist per 36: 4.2 assists
Turnovers per 36: 4.2 turnovers
Kobe
He is 40/96 in clutch situations.
His free throw shooting is 67/79
His true shooting is 58 %
Assists per 36: 4.3 assists
Turnovers per 36: 1.7 turnovers
[B]Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.[/B]
Lebron
He is 4/23 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 10/14
His true shooting is 31%
Assists per 36: 3.7 assists
TO per 36: 3.7 TO
Kobe
He is 10/20 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 4/5
His true shooting is 56.4%
Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
TO per 36: 1.5 TO
[B]Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.[/B]
Lebron
17/62 in clutch situations in the finals.
32% EFG
43% TS.
Assists per 36: 4.26
TO per 36: 3.1
Kobe
28/63 in clutch situations in the finals.
46% EFG
53% TS.
Assists per 36: 3.6
TO per 36: 1.08
Tbh, I wasn't surprised about the field goals considering Kobe is the much better shooter in the playoffs, but I was shocked to see Kobe as the better playmaker and distributor in crunch time.
Thoughts?
Edit: all sources are from NBA.com[/QUOTE]
No need to be butthurt about it tho.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14596767]I don’t even know if Kobe’s gonna be able to hold off Curry & Giannis at this point.[/QUOTE]
Easily Curry especially if he never wins FMVP but Giannis is up for debate atm.
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Re: Kobe vs Lebron - Who is considered better?
[QUOTE=Westbrook_Fan;14596597]Kobe missed the playoffs with Prime Dwight, LeBron won a championship with a washed up Dwight
case closed...[/QUOTE]
2012 Dwight wasn’t prime Dwight especially after back surgery 2011 was Dwight at his peak.