lol OH NO, NOT THE WORD "BULLSH!T"
ahaha, grow up..
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lol OH NO, NOT THE WORD "BULLSH!T"
ahaha, grow up..
ok Here is my top 9. i believe this is the best:
1-Kobe Bryant (he knows how to win. By himself he still makes the playoffs)
2-TIm Duncan (no doubt the best and most creative post player in the nba)
3-Lebron James(an unbelievable athlete who gets to the finals at age 21)
4-Kevin Garnett(An outstading big man, who can also shoot)
5-Steve Nash(3 or 4 mvps, also one of the best passers to play the game)
6-Dirk(an extrodinary big man who is 7 feet tall and can knock down a shot from where ever he wants, also has one of the best fade shots, and 2007 mvp)
7-Dwayne Wade(only about 23-24 years old and already has a ring, and possible another to come)
8-Allen Iverson(steals the ball better than anyone, can pass very well, and an awsome scorer, when on the sixers he scored as if he was kobe)
9-Tracy Mcgrady(amazing athlete, shoots extremely well, hits any shot on the court. When he played for Orlando he would average 30 a game. Also dont forget those 13 points he had in oly 30 seconds)
[QUOTE=jaydacris]lol OH NO, NOT THE WORD "BULLSH!T"
ahaha, grow up..[/QUOTE]
get a clue
he called me imature for say the word dipsh-it and "cursing" and then he goes on to scream out "BULLSH-IT"...
i was just pointing out how hypocritical he was being....moron
are you retarded? he used the word in a statement, to express how dumb something is. you used a word to offend him and attack him..
"you're a dipsh!t" versus "this is bullsh!t"
do you understand? comprendez?
[quote]hmmm....something seems.....hmmm[/quote]
Nice try, however, I wasn't swearing at you as if I was saying something bad. Swearing out of aggrovation is different from swearing AT somebody.
Try again.
[QUOTE=Free] [B]He helped lead a young and overachieving Heat team to the second round of the playoffs in his rookie year [/B][/QUOTE]
Against the .500 hornets. With Caron Butler and Lamar Odom...Hardly remarkable
[QUOTE]came close to knocking off the number one team in the East[/QUOTE] Pacers won 4-2...Not exactly close...while the Pacers were pretty good that year its nothing to brag about.
While im not gonna try to downplay Wades numbers, almost doesnt count. Same reason you see Kobe getting bashed on for the past couple years. Like I said, Wade is a newcomer in the league and he has all the time in the world to prove himself, but IMO he hasnt done it yet. Never did I say Wade wasnt good, I never really criticized him...all I said was that he isnt deserving of top 5 in my eyes...If you cant understand that then I'm sorry. But there are a lot of players who have done a lot in their careers..Wade hasnt yet. Will he? Probably..but not yet (In my eyes)....Dont get me wrong here..Like I said I dont hate wade...but top 5 is pushing it imo
[QUOTE=-primetime-]Yi is 19, Duncan is 32.....that is a 13 year differance...Sure Dunca would be better for the next 4 to 5 years....but then I have another 13 years to top that....I would take my chances with the youngster[/quote]
Good luck because in the 4-5yrs Duncan would accomplish more than Yi would. And you're banking on hope Yi pans out because you saw some youtube highlights and China league stats. I dont mind Yi protential but I'll go with the SURE thing before I put my entire franchise in an unknowns hands. With Oden, Durant I've seen what they are able to do live and direct. Yi? Nope.
[QUOTE]Shaq is the most dominating center no matter what league or era...keep pretending that shaq is done and means nothing...[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: Yeah man Shaq is dominating. You exagerrate the opposite then argue on it. Why? Who said Shaq means nothing? I simply said he is NOT the most dominating Center in the NBA. He is PAST his prime. He is often injured as his career winds down. I'm hitting you with realistic views and you're holding onto the Shaq of old as if he will 4ever be a dominant force. Not even MJ fans made this argument when he came back to play for the Wizards.
yeah, I guess I did...
[QUOTE]no, they were below .500 without Shaq....then Shaq brought them back above and into the playoffs....I have said this before.[/QUOTE]
So Miami Heat with Wade and without Shaq were below .500?
[quote]no, but I guess you can pretend that Shaq sucks[/QUOTE]
No one pretends Shaq sucks. You called Shaq the most dominant Center in the NBA. A topic and topics here have been made on this. Majority overrules. Shaq is not the dominant force he used to be. He can dominate a game, he is not a dominant player anymore. There is a difference. He is not the best Center in the NBA either, something you claim he is. Yao Ming is. And again topics here were made and majority overruled.
See the difference with me and you? Your arguments are nothing more than talkin out your ass, fabricating points/putting words in others mouths then ARGUING them.
Example?
"Shaq is not the best Center in the NBA. Last 2yrs he has been playing less, getting injured more and has to play himself into shape as the season progresses"
Your reply "Ok so Shaq sucks and you would take Dalembert over him. GoBB you're an idiot"
Thats how your mentality here operates when you're challenged and backed into a corner like a putty cat. Everyone sees it but you. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=jaydacris]are you retarded? he used the word in a statement, to express how dumb something is. you used a word to offend him and attack him..
"you're a dipsh!t" versus "this is bullsh!t"
do you understand? comprendez?[/QUOTE]
he said this....
[QUOTE=Richie2k6]Gonna start swearing now? Come on, you're more mature than that.[/QUOTE]
maybe he should have said this....
[QUOTE=Richie2k6]Gonna start [B]insulting[/B] now? Come on, you're more mature than that.[/QUOTE]
you know what he means, are you gonna go around correcting everyones little typing/grammar errors as well? i would tell you to stick to arguing about basketball, but you suck at that just as bad as you suck at everything else, and yes im insulting you, and having lots of fun doing it.
ok, we have different opinions about shaq....i think he was still dominate when he won with the heat and you don't....let's leave it at that
[QUOTE=GOBB]
So Miami Heat with Wade and without Shaq were below .500?
[/QUOTE]
I don't know the exact percentage, if it wasn't below .500 then it was right at .500 or a little bit above....
what I do know is that when Wade got injured it was Shaq that brought the team out of the hole that they were in...
Shaq w/o Wade > Wade w/o Shaq
[QUOTE=Devientz]Against the .500 hornets. With Caron Butler and Lamar Odom...Hardly remarkable
Pacers won 4-2...Not exactly close...while the Pacers were pretty good that year its nothing to brag about.
While im not gonna try to downplay Wades numbers, almost doesnt count. Same reason you see Kobe getting bashed on for the past couple years. Like I said, Wade is a newcomer in the league and he has all the time in the world to prove himself, but IMO he hasnt done it yet. Never did I say Wade wasnt good, I never really criticized him...all I said was that he isnt deserving of top 5 in my eyes...If you cant understand that then I'm sorry. But there are a lot of players who have done a lot in their careers..Wade hasnt yet. Will he? Probably..but not yet (In my eyes)....Dont get me wrong here..Like I said I dont hate wade...but top 5 is pushing it imo[/QUOTE]
Seriously, how has he NOT proven himself. You're not giving any valid points here. Are you using his age against him, if so LeBron shouldn't be in the discussion. And he has already accomplished more than guys like Garnett and Dirk in his short career. So a guy that's advanced to at least the second round of the playoffs in his first three years, led his team to the conference finals his second year and led his team to the championship in his third year as an underdog hasn't proven himself??? If he was being compared to all time greats, I'd understand but we're talking about Top 5 players today. And why don't Wade's numbers count when they've resulted in success?
Oh and Caron Butler was injured most of his rookie year and he was a 9ppg player, NO WHERE near the player he is today.
[QUOTE=jaydacris]you know what he means, are you gonna go around correcting everyones little typing/grammar errors as well? i would tell you to stick to arguing about basketball, but you suck at that just as bad as you suck at everything else, and yes im insulting you, and having lots of fun doing it.[/QUOTE]
just shut the fu-ck up and go listen to your Ludacris cd...
i read some of the posts and its funny. mav fans crying for dirk and hating on wade/nash. but whatever. i don treally care about dirk being top 5, personally i dont think he is, but im not in the mood to make a list and argue since its already been established that he isnt. only thing going on is complaining. dirk is top 10 though =). congratulations.
oh man, you're mean. :(
[QUOTE=-primetime-]ok, we have different opinions about shaq....i think he was still dominate when he won with the heat and you don't....let's leave it at that
I don't know the exact percentage, if it wasn't below .500 then it was right at .500 or a little bit above....
what I do know is that when Wade got injured it was Shaq that brought the team out of the hole that they were in...
Shaq w/o Wade > Wade w/o Shaq[/QUOTE]
The HEat were 18-14 with Wade and without Shaq, they were 16-8 with Shaq and without Wade. Shaq had a much healthier team to work with not to mention the additon of Eddie Jones who was huge and the return of RIley.
[QUOTE=Free]The HEat were 18-14 with Wade and without Shaq, they were 16-8 with Shaq and without Wade. Shaq had a much healthier team to work with not to mention the additon of Eddie Jones who was huge and the return of RIley.[/QUOTE]
well, it still can't be denied that the Heat would not be in the playoffs without shaq's performance during Wade's absence
[QUOTE=-primetime-]well, it still can't be denied that the Heat would not be in the playoffs without shaq's performance during Wade's absence[/QUOTE]
Okay, your point?
[QUOTE=-primetime-]well, it still can't be denied that the Heat would not be in the playoffs without shaq's performance during Wade's absence[/QUOTE]
And vice versa!
This is a worthless debate, stop wasting your ****ing time people.
its only a worthless debate, because some people, like to make up false claims about a player as a way of degrading the quality/performance of another player. i wont say any names ;]
[QUOTE=Richie2k6]Okay, your point?[/QUOTE]
that Wade needs shaq to make the playoffs unlike Kobe or Lebron
that Wade is overrated...
that is the point here
and when shaq is all but gone we will see if Wade can do what Lebron did this year in the East....my guess is that everyone will realize just how overrated wade is.
[QUOTE=-primetime-]that Wade needs shaq to make the playoffs unlike Kobe or Lebron
that Wade is overrated...
that is the point here
and when shaq is all but gone we will see if Wade can do what Lebron did this year in the East....my guess is that everyone will realize just how overrated wade is.[/QUOTE]
there should be a documentary made on maverick fans and dwade. maybe they should get together for lunch or something.
[QUOTE=The Hurricane]This is a worthless debate, stop wasting your ****ing time people.[/QUOTE]
there is no debate here that isn't...we are just posting our thoughts like any other thread here.
I think that right now based off of this season that Dirk > Wade....and I use Shaq and injuries to back it up...that is all
[QUOTE=artest 93]there should be a documentary made on maverick fans and dwade. maybe they should get together for lunch or something.[/QUOTE]
I would bring a gun and murder Wade, probably.
[SIZE="1"]im joking[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=Free]Seriously, how has he NOT proven himself. You're not giving any valid points here. Are you using his age against him, if so LeBron shouldn't be in the discussion. And he has already accomplished more than guys like Garnett and Dirk in his short career. So a guy that's advanced to at least the second round of the playoffs in his first three years, led his team to the conference finals his second year and led his team to the championship in his third year as an underdog hasn't proven himself??? If he was being compared to all time greats, I'd understand but we're talking about Top 5 players today. And why don't Wade's numbers count when they've resulted in success?
Oh and Caron Butler was injured most of his rookie year and he was a 9ppg player, NO WHERE near the player he is today.[/QUOTE]
The thing I hold against Wade is the team he had when he won his championship. While I know none of them were in their prime and Wade, being young, led the team....You had Shaq, Payton, Mourning, walker, williams.ect...a ton of great vetarans. and thats half the battle...Again I DO think Wade is a great player..easily top 10 right now...but leading a team of veterans to the finals vs leading a team of inexperienced players are very different. Leading a team with those players to a ring is great and all but it doesnt overthrow the likes of Garnett Kobe and Nash IMO. I dont know why you cant understand my reasoning, its not that unreasonable..In my list, Wade was #6/7....I also said if he could easily change my mind next season
[quote=-primetime-]that Wade needs shaq to make the playoffs unlike Kobe or Lebron
that Wade is overrated...
that is the point here
and when shaq is all but gone we will see if Wade can do what Lebron did this year in the East....my guess is that everyone will realize just how overrated wade is.[/quote]
LeBron has a better supporting cast than Wade does when Wade doesn't have Shaq. He has better role players and the defense is about even. Without Shaq the Heat wouldn't make the playoffs but thats because they have a bad team not because Wade is any less of a player. Wade had a winning record without Shaq so in the weak east he might make the playoffs without Shaq and with the weak current line up.
[QUOTE=-primetime-]that Wade needs shaq to make the playoffs unlike Kobe or Lebron
that Wade is overrated...
that is the point here
and when shaq is all but gone we will see if Wade can do what Lebron did this year in the East....my guess is that everyone will realize just how overrated wade is.[/QUOTE]
You do know that when Shaq is gone, that's 20 million dollars of cap space being released right??? What do you think that the heat are not going to acquire other palyers to build around Wade??? Seriously!
Here's my top 5:
1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. Lebron
4. Dirk
5. Garnett
Dirk is the MVP of the season and I still dont understand why other people being injured is used against him.
Nonetheless, I can understand the dislike for him and his game but please listen to this.
The reason why he doesnt drive/post-up is b/c that isnt the way he plays. If he starts playing like that, then the way the mavs play on offense changes. So i think thats a reason why he doesnt post-up so much.
[QUOTE=The Hurricane]I would bring a gun and murder Wade, probably.
[SIZE="1"]im joking[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
I would murder the refs, not wade...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk[/url]
the Mavs were not allowed to play any defense that series
[QUOTE=-primetime-]I would murder the refs, not wade...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk[/url]
the Mavs were not allowed to play any defense that series[/QUOTE]
that still amazes me every time i see that. I cant believe you can ACTUALLY call that a foul.
[QUOTE=Devientz]The thing I hold against Wade is the team he had when he won his championship. While I know none of them were in their prime and Wade, being young, led the team....You had Shaq, Payton, Mourning, walker, williams.ect...a ton of great vetarans. and thats half the battle...Again I DO think Wade is a great player..easily top 10 right now...but leading a team of veterans to the finals vs leading a team of inexperienced players are very different. Leading a team with those players to a ring is great and all but it doesnt overthrow the likes of Garnett Kobe and Nash IMO. I dont know why you cant understand my reasoning, its not that unreasonable..In my list, Wade was #6....I also said if he could easily change my mind next season[/QUOTE]
Oh come on, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, and countless of other greats have led more talented teams to championships, are you going to discredit them also? NOt to mention the Heat were heavy underdogs in the finals, people said they were old and slow beforhand. Wade led a veteran team to a championship but he did some heavy lifting himself. Oh and I'm not arguing your top five, that's your peragative, I'm just arguing your statement that Wade is overrated or that he's unworthy of a top five player.
[quote=Hawker]Here's my top 5:
1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. Lebron
4. Dirk
5. Garnett
Dirk is the MVP of the season and I still dont understand why other people being injured is used against him.
Nonetheless, I can understand the dislike for him and his game but please listen to this.
The reason why he doesnt drive/post-up is b/c that isnt the way he plays. If he starts playing like that, then the way the mavs play on offense changes. So i think thats a reason why he doesnt post-up so much.[/quote]
You think that Dirk doesn't post up or drive is because that would change the offense of the Mavs, why exactly is that a bad thing? The team can't get it done in the post season and they have a very weak post why would they welcome a post up player or a player that drives? He doesn't do those things because he can't do them well.
[QUOTE=Free]Oh come on, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, and countless of other greats have led more talented teams to championships, are you going to discredit them also? NOt to mention the Heat were heavy underdogs in the finals, people said they were old and slow beforhand. Wade led a veteran team to a championship but he did some heavy lifting himself. Oh and I'm not arguing your top five, that's your peragative, I'm just arguing your statement that Wade is overrated or that he's unworthy of a top five player.[/QUOTE]
I DO think Wade is overated...maybe not by you...maybe not by anyone who reads this...but I cant even tell you how many times Ive see people say that wade is "[U][B]the[/B] best[/U]" player in the league.
Im not gonna post in this thread anymore...Ill just leave it at this:
"In my opinion, Wade isnt worthy of top 5....close....but not there yet"
That is all:pimp:
I don't know how this "top 5 players... is Dirk still there?" turned into
"top 5 players ... is D Wade still there?" :roll:
So to all those people who keep criticizing Wade < Dirk, I have a question.. Why do you attack only Wade? By doing this, are you acknowledging that besides Wade, you think that (My top 5 w/o wade)
1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. Nash
4 and 5. LeBron / Garnett tied
are all better than Dirk? If that's the case, then wouldn't the thread be over b/c Dirk would still not be in top 5 regardless of whether he is better than Wade or not?
Or perhaps you think Dirk is better than maybe LeBron or Garnett as well except you attack Wade maybe because you feel he is the easiest one to outcast from the top five or maybe you might dislike how he sometimes does get unfair calls his way. I'm not sure. But either way, in my opinion I believe that [B]if Dwayne Wade never existed in the league, Dirk would STILL not be in the top 5[B]. Feel free to debate my first point if you'd like to downplay a player besides Wade for a change.
Secondly, I will concede that although both players had disappointing seasons, Wade did not perform as well as Dirk [B]this past season[/B]. So top five for last season only, Wade is not there. However, if I were to pick a healthy Dwayne Wade or a healthy Dirk Nowitzki, I'd go with DWade. D Wade at his best has already proven that he can outplay a healthy Dirk.
I'd put Wade on my list tied with LeBron and Garnett. Dirk would be a lower tier top 10 player.
[QUOTE=Devientz]I DO think Wade is overated...maybe not by you...maybe not by anyone who reads this...but I cant even tell you how many times Ive see people say that wade is "[U][B]the[/B] best[/U]" player in the league.
Im not gonna post in this thread anymore...Ill just leave it at this:
"In my opinion, Wade isnt worthy of top 5....close....but not there yet"
That is all:pimp:[/QUOTE]
For every person that overrates Wade there are those who underrate him. This is usually the case for most players. Anyways I respect your opinion although I strongly disagree.
[QUOTE=Rockets(T-mac)]You think that Dirk doesn't post up or drive is because that would change the offense of the Mavs, why exactly is that a bad thing? The team can't get it done in the post season and they have a very weak post why would they welcome a post up player or a player that drives? [B]He doesn't do those things because he can't do them well[/B].[/QUOTE]
you are right...
kinda like Duncan doesn't shoot threes
Dirk is an outside shooter, plain and simple
[QUOTE=Free][B]For every person that overrates Wade there are those who underrate him.[/B] This is usually the case for most players. Anyways I respect your opinion although I strongly disagree.[/QUOTE]
I don't think so...
there are enough Wade/Barkley commericials on for every casual fan in the world to think Wade is jordan...
[quote=-primetime-]I don't think so...
there are enough Wade/Barkley commericials on for every casual fan in the world to think Wade is jordan...[/quote]
There are enough Lebron commercials as there are casual fans that think Lebron is better than Jordan. What your point? Wade has been getting underrated ever since he got injured, because pre injury he was top 5 for sure and now he isn't top 5 at all.:rolleyes: :ohwell:
I find it funny that everyone speaks so highly about Lebron and so poorly of Dirk. Did Dirk struggle in a playoff series. Absolutely, he got double and triple teamed and had a very poor series against a very hot team. Lebron James led the Cavs to the Finals in the terrible Eastern Conference. He played good up until the Finals and then what? He faded in the Finals just like Dirk did against the Warriors. Once SA sent double and triple teams at him, he struggled. Obviously Cleveland's loss to SA isn't comparable to Dallas against GS because it was the biggest upset in NBA history, but I just find it funny how all of you ignorant people who criticize Dirk define a player based upon 6 games. He went cold for 6 games. Apparently that drops him out of the so called "Top 5" when he's only led Dallas to to winning no less than 50 games since 2000, but no, it's these 6 games that should make his status completely plummet.
[QUOTE=-primetime-]I don't think so...
there are enough Wade/Barkley commericials on for every casual fan in the world to think Wade is jordan...[/QUOTE]
If that were the case, the ratings would be much higher and he'd be considered far and away the best player in the league.