Anyone believe Covid is very serious but at same time the vaccine ain't doing shit?

[QUOTE=tontoz;14432470]Interesting that you bring up driving. In order to drive a car legally you need a license, insurance, registration and you have to wear a seat belt. You can be ticketed for not wearing it.

Not to mention all the traffic signs and lights[/QUOTE]

True but I'm not forced to get any of that. I can take other means of transportation ane enjoy the same shit everyone else does who has a car. This isn't the case with covid and vaccines

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14432545]True but I'm not forced to get any of that. I can take other means of transportation ane enjoy the same shit everyone else does who has a car. This isn't the case with covid and vaccines[/QUOTE]

That certainly isn't the case where I live, even moreso prior to COVID and Uber.

20 years from now I expect car ownership to be pretty much obsolete though.

[QUOTE=dankok8;14432430]The vaccine ain't doing shit? :facepalm[/QUOTE]


Well... looks like those vaccines ain't doing $hit for Oscar De La Hoya

[img]https://lapelotita.s3.us-east-1.wasabisys.com/2021/09/03/oscar-de-la-hoya-has-covid-19-and-will-not-768x474.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Doomsday Dallas;14432560]Well... looks like those vaccines ain't doing $hit for Oscar De La Hoya

[img]https://lapelotita.s3.us-east-1.wasabisys.com/2021/09/03/oscar-de-la-hoya-has-covid-19-and-will-not-768x474.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]



Actually the vaccine may well be helping him get through this. Being a drug and alcohol abuser (which he's admitted) probably didnt help his immune system.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14432554]That certainly isn't the case where I live, even moreso prior to COVID and Uber.

20 years from now I expect car ownership to be pretty much obsolete though.[/QUOTE]

20 years from now we might all be in trouble. The world is a messed up place and it's only getting worse

[QUOTE=tontoz;14432579]Actually the vaccine may well be helping him get through this. Being a drug and alcohol abuser (which he's admitted) probably didnt help his immune system.[/QUOTE]
Idk why but magats do have a hard time believing this.

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14432523]I've been asking basic followup questions to tontoz's claims as well as regarding the benefits of forced vaccination ITT and other threads.

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14431187&viewfull=1#post14431187[/url]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14432299&viewfull=1#post14432299[/url]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14432305&viewfull=1#post14432305[/url]

#Crickets[/QUOTE]

Follow up questions ? Just you asking what the benefit of forced vaccinations are numbers wise.


We show you 80%+ of hospitalizations are amongst unvaccinated.

Anymore followup questions needed to understand basic facts?

[QUOTE=8Ball;14432855]Follow up questions ? Just you asking what the benefit of forced vaccinations are numbers wise.


We show you 80%+ of hospitalizations are amongst unvaccinated.

Anymore followup questions needed to understand basic facts?[/QUOTE]

Problem with that is i can show you data that shows the opposite. Alot of the new studies are showing that transmission is no different for vaxxers. There's also data coming out of Isreal showing that natural antibodies are way more effective than the vaccine. This is something the media and cdc has been lying about since this shit started. Common sense and factual data suggests that natural immunity is better and vaccines don't effect transmission but the majority has allowed fear Mongoring by the cdc and media to make them ignore facts and common sense.

The other part to this which is shameful and dangerous is the cdc and media denying this fact is giving millions of vaccines to people who have the antibodies and don't need it instead of giving it to other countries and people around the world that don't have antibodies and need it.

It's a shit show dude. That's why so many people distrust the cdc and media when it comes to the vaccine. Their incompetence or just flat out lying is literally killing people.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14433038]Pretty much sums everything up.

This was an obvious bait thread, but the number of people who ACTUALLY hold the views Mr. 8ball is trolling with... is pretty wild stuff.

Lot of really high strung folks out there motivated by insecurity and neurosis. And the corporate-political-media conglomerate can keep them under thumb with remarkable ease.

Not a great look for humanity. But a true portrait it is. Warts and all.[/QUOTE]

Right now the natural immunity vs vaccine debate is nothing but a side show. The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

We've got a conservative governor in WV who is against mask mandates literally begging people to get vaccinated because there are so many unvaccinated people in his hospitals. The funny part is that it was one of the antivaxers here who originally called attention to the governor, taking a one minute clip out of context while completely ignoring the other hour of the press conference.

At the 19:30 mark he announced they are giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated.

[video=youtube_share;XXQ64M1-ch4]https://youtu.be/XXQ64M1-ch4[/video]

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433056]Right now the natural immunity vs vaccine debate is nothing but a side show. The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

We've got a conservative governor in WV who is against mask mandates literally begging people to get vaccinated because there are so many unvaccinated people in his hospitals. The funny part is that it was one of the antivaxers here who originally called attention to the governor, taking a one minute clip out of context while completely ignoring the other hour of the press conference.

At the 19:30 mark he announced they are giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated.

[video=youtube_share;XXQ64M1-ch4]https://youtu.be/XXQ64M1-ch4[/video][/QUOTE]


You remember GOP house speaker John Boehener?

He was a staunch opponent of medical marijuana use. That is, until...

[quote] Acreage Holdings, which describes itself as "one of the nation's largest, multi-state actively-managed cannabis corporations," announced Wednesday that the former U.S. representative from Ohio has joined its board of advisors, and will join the board of directors once it is formed.[/quote]


Soon as he was offered a place on the board of a profitable marijuana company, suddenly he changed his tune. Imagine that!


“A conservative governor” has nothing to do with medicine and common sense. Politicians are self interested and duplicitous regardless of party. He could have any number of motivations and his public opinion is meaningless. I dont make decisions based on whether the source is red or blue.

Pointing to anything a politician does or says has no bearing on common sense analysis of an issue.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14433082]You remember GOP house speaker John Boehener?

He was a staunch opponent of medical marijuana use. That is, until...




Soon as he was offered a place on the board of a profitable marijuana company, suddenly he changed his tune. Imagine that!


“A conservative governor” has nothing to do with medicine and common sense. Politicians are self interested and duplicitous regardless of party. He could have any number of motivations and his public opinion is meaningless. I dont make decisions based on whether the source is red or blue.

Pointing to anything a politician does or says has no bearing on common sense analysis of an issue.[/QUOTE]



Right, a politician who is against mask mandates, and even says that during the vid, is just making up the hospital figures in his state. :facepalm

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433095]Right, a politician who is against mask mandates, and even says that during the vid, is just making up the hospital figures in his state. :facepalm[/QUOTE]


Drug companies dont profit from mask mandates :hammerhead:

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14433100]Drug companies dont profit from mask mandates :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]


So you think he is fabricating the hospital numbers of his state in a live press conference to cater to the drug companies? Wow

I guess some people will just see what they want to see.



[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20210906-143755.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433104]So you think he is fabricating the hospital numbers of his state in a live press conference to cater to the drug companies? Wow

I guess some people will just see what they want to see.



[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20210906-143755.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Youre making irrelevant arguments.

I said nothing partisan in the post you initially responded to, yet your immediate reaction was to claim “a conservative governor said x,y, and z!!!!! [I]Aha!!![/I]” It’s clear your opinions are easily colored by a partisan view of government.

I pointed out that politicians can have ulterior motives and youre insisting “but hes conservative!” You said something about mask mandates and hospitals, I pointed out that opposing the mask mandates is irrelevant. You transformed that into an assertion I didnt make that hes lying about hospital statistics.

Youre all over the place and it’s coming off shrill and defensive.

I really dont care how you want to personally approach masks, vaccines, covid, political orders, etc. I wish you would grant others the same courtesy. Perhaps in real life you do, but your innumerable posts splattered on every page of this topic across multiple threads give me the impression youve got an “enforcer” mentality when it comes to your views of how everyone should respond to this issue.

Anyway, you may carry on. For my end Ill leave it at what Ive already said.

Btw Ill just lastly point out that altho it’s not scientific, there’s a respected tradition of proverbial wisdom in politics that says:

“If rrr3 is on your side... youre probably wrong.”


Just something to keep in mind.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14432579]Actually the vaccine may well be helping him get through this. Being a drug and alcohol abuser (which he's admitted) probably didnt help his immune system.[/QUOTE]
I doubt that,

you put too much faith in vaccines and lab created medicine and not enough faith in the human bodies ability to naturally fight off illnesses

How do you think we were able to survive as a species for 100s of millions of years before vaccines were created

A big reason why I choose not to get vaccinated is that I literally never get sick, I worked through this "pandemic" as a key worker in a field where I was highly exposed to a lot of people and I still didn't get sick not even once

Especially seeing the potential side effects out there, you have to respect other people's personal decisions

[QUOTE=Manny98;14433115]I doubt that,

you put too much faith in vaccines and lab created medicine and not enough faith in the human bodies ability to naturally fight off illnesses

How do you think we were able to survive as a species for 100s of millions of years before vaccines were created[/QUOTE]

In a lot of cases we didn't. There were a lot of mass deaths along the way but i get it you are young, think you are bulletproof and DGAF about anyone else.

650k+ dead bodies just in the US (in spite of wearing masks, social distancing etc) tell me just letting nature take it's course isn't a good idea. Not only because of the covid deaths but also the people who died because their weren't ICU beds available.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14433110]Youre making irrelevant arguments.

I said nothing partisan in the post you initially responded to, yet your immediate reaction was to claim “a conservative governor said x,y, and z!!!!! [I]Aha!!![/I]” It’s clear your opinions are easily colored by a partisan view of government.

I pointed out that politicians can have ulterior motives and youre insisting “but hes conservative!” You said something about mask mandates and hospitals, I pointed out that opposing the mask mandates is irrelevant. You transformed that into an assertion I didnt make that hes lying about hospital statistics.

Youre all over the place and it’s coming off shrill and defensive.

I really dont care how you want to personally approach masks, vaccines, covid, political orders, etc. I wish you would grant others the same courtesy. Perhaps in real life you do, but your innumerable posts splattered on every page of this topic across multiple threads give me the impression youve got an “enforcer” mentality when it comes to your views of how everyone should respond to this issue.

Anyway, you may carry on. For my end Ill leave it at what Ive already said.[/QUOTE]


LOL i literally went a year without posting about the topic at all.

In case you haven't been paying attention there has been a clear divide in how people view Covid based on politics. Typically Republican governors more likely to be anti vax and anti prevention. In Florida the governor there is actually selling anti-Fauci tee shirts to fund his re-election campaign. He's banned masks in schools. Texas has already banned vaccine passports. And so on.

Dems have typically been more pro mask pro vaccine.

Whether you like it or not people's responses have been very political.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433120]In a lot of cases we didn't. There were a lot of mass deaths along the way but i get it you are young, think you are bulletproof and DGAF about anyone else.

650k+ dead bodies just in the US (in spite of wearing masks, social distancing etc) tell me just letting nature take it's course isn't a good idea. Not only because of the covid deaths but also the people who died because their weren't ICU beds available.[/QUOTE]
We would have reached herd immunity and deaths would have eventually started to go down.

You're acting like the human race would have gone extinct if it wasn't for lockdowns and mask wearing which has been proven to do f*ck all

Isreal despite being the most vaccinated country in the world have record high number of cases which proves vaccines don't prevent transmission

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433056]Right now the natural immunity vs vaccine debate is nothing but a side show. The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

We've got a conservative governor in WV who is against mask mandates literally begging people to get vaccinated because there are so many unvaccinated people in his hospitals. The funny part is that it was one of the antivaxers here who originally called attention to the governor, taking a one minute clip out of context while completely ignoring the other hour of the press conference.

At the 19:30 mark he announced they are giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated.

[video=youtube_share;XXQ64M1-ch4]https://youtu.be/XXQ64M1-ch4[/video][/QUOTE]

It's way more than a side show. Hundreds of millions of people worldwide wide are being given a vaccine who don't need it taking it away from millions who need it but can't get it. Thousands of people are dying because of this.

The overwhelming hospitals argument is a faulty one but i'm sure most people who aren't vaxxed would be willing to go to the back of the line for care if that would solve the issue

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433135]It's way more than a side show. Hundreds of millions of people worldwide wide are being given a vaccine who don't need it taking it away from millions who need it but can't get it. Thousands of people are dying because of this.

[/QUOTE]


Once again you are leaning on assumptions.

1) If people didn't get vaccines here, those doses would have been shipped overseas. Do you actually have any evidence of this? Have you ever considered that the drug companies have a certain percentage of the vaccine earmarked for us and for other countries?

2) The lack of vaccinations overseas is entirely due to a lack of supply. You completely ignore the logistics (distribution, storage, appointments, administering the vaccine) that were problematic in the rollout here. I doubt that India can handle it as well as we did.

3) You are assuming that the masses in other countries actually want to take the vaccine. This is comical coming from someone who hasn't taken it himself.

[QUOTE] The overwhelming hospitals argument is a faulty one but i'm sure most people who aren't vaxxed would be willing to go to the back of the line for care if that would solve the issue [/QUOTE]

Somehow i doubt a guy in ICU will willingly give up his bed for someone else.

[QUOTE=Manny98;14433133]We would have reached herd immunity and deaths would have eventually started to go down.

You're acting like the human race would have gone extinct if it wasn't for lockdowns and mask wearing which has been proven to do f*ck all

Isreal despite being the most vaccinated country in the world have record high number of cases which proves vaccines don't prevent transmission[/QUOTE]


We already knew the vaccines don't totally prevent transmission. What the vaccines do is minimize the effects and help prevent severe cases.

Found a lengthy article breaking down Isreali hospitalizations.

[url]https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated[/url]




[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_2021-09-07_4.12.31_PM.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433139]Once again you are leaning on assumptions.

1) If people didn't get vaccines here, those doses would have been shipped overseas. Do you actually have any evidence of this? Have you ever considered that the drug companies have a certain percentage of the vaccine earmarked for us and for other countries?

2) The lack of vaccinations overseas is entirely due to a lack of supply. You completely ignore the logistics (distribution, storage, appointments, administering the vaccine) that were problematic in the rollout here. I doubt that India can handle it as well as we did.

3) You are assuming that the masses in other countries actually want to take the vaccine. This is comical coming from someone who hasn't taken it himself.



Somehow i doubt a guy in ICU will willingly give up his bed for someone else.[/QUOTE]

1) the us and other wealthy nations absolutely has vaccines earmarked. That's part of the the problem they have more than they need earmarked. The us and uk has twice as many vaccines as it needs and canada has almost 5 times more than it needs. This earmarking or hoarding of vaccines by the wealthy nations is a problem Thatmany poor nations have been complaining about but its not something your gonna hear from our media obviously. [url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2021/4/28/22405279/covid-19-vaccine-india-covax[/url]. This article goes into more depth of it and is proof that poor countries clearly want and need way more vaccines.

2) yes it's all about lack of supply. Not for the wealthy they have plenty as i already pointed out. And plenty of countries like india have the capacity to administer vaccines. The supply just isn't there because as i pointed out the wealthy countries are hoarding them. Even if for argument sake if there were poor countries that couldn't it would be in everyones interest to help facilitate that process. It is a global pandemic.

3) not sure what my personal choice has to do with poor countries not being able to get vaccines. Like all countries some want the vaccine and some don't. The problem is the ones that want it can't get it.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433205]1) Thatm[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2021/4/28/22405279/covid-19-vaccine-india-covax[/url].[/QUOTE]


The first line of the article tells the story. The operative word is 'purchased'. After all the time and resources companies invested into developing and manufacturing the vaccines I don't expect them to just give them away for free.

The US is already subsidizing the rest of the world for drugs. Pretty much any drug you can name is far more expensive here than any other country. We are the ones who pay the costs to develop the drugs and the rest of the world benefits.

There is no law against other countries developing drugs of their own rather than waiting on handouts from us.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433216]The first line of the article tells the story. The operative word is 'purchased'. After all the time and resources companies invested into developing and manufacturing the vaccines I don't expect them to just give them away for free.

The US is already subsidizing the rest of the world for drugs. Pretty much any drug you can name is far more expensive here than any other country. We are the ones who pay the costs to develop the drugs and the rest of the world benefits.

There is no law against other countries developing drugs of their own rather than waiting on handouts from us.[/QUOTE]

Come on man you have to be joking? It's not about saving lives its big buisness. It's not about free. It's about making a trillion dollars or a billion dollars. Highest bidder gets it. It's a joke. If it was about saving lives and stopping the pandemic They would sell it at a fair price on needs basis. They'd still make billions. Your being very nieve about this. The pandemic like most pandemics is being used to make the rich richer. You don't actually believe half of the loaded shit the media tells you do you?

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433246]Come on man you have to be joking? It's not about saving lives its big buisness. It's not about free. It's about making a trillion dollars or a billion dollars. Highest bidder gets it. It's a joke. If it was about saving lives and stopping the pandemic They would sell it at a fair price on needs basis. They'd still make billions. Your being very nieve about this. The pandemic like most pandemics is being used to make the rich richer. You don't actually believe half of the loaded shit the media tells you do you?[/QUOTE]

Like it or not drug companies are in business to make money. If they didnt have financial incentives to develop and make the drugs then there would be no vaccines.

It is always easy to spend someone else's money. Some current vaccines (not covid) cost over $100. Pfizer's is charging the government $19.50 per dose. That isn't a lot and if other countries can't pay that i can't blame Pfizer.

Should our govt buy the doses and then ship them overseas? That would certainly be a better use of fund than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. i would guess there will be a compromise solution at some point. Maybe the drug companies sell at cost or maybe our govt helps with some of the cost.

Companies are in business to make money so i can't fault them. If there are any charity doses sent out it will probably have to be subsidized by the government ie our tax dollars.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433264]Like it or not drug companies are in business to make money. If they didnt have financial incentives to develop and make the drugs then there would be no vaccines.

It is always easy to spend someone else's money. Some current vaccines (not covid) cost over $100. Pfizer's is charging the government $19.50 per dose. That isn't a lot and if other countries can't pay that i can't blame Pfizer.

Should our govt buy the doses and then ship them overseas? That would certainly be a better use of fund than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. i would guess there will be a compromise solution at some point. Maybe the drug companies sell at cost or maybe our govt helps with some of the cost.

Companies are in business to make money so i can't fault them. If there are any charity doses sent out it will probably have to be subsidized by the government ie our tax dollars.[/QUOTE]

I get companies are in to make money but when it comes to a global pandemic they could do the right thing and make billions instead of trillions. Your acting like it's a matter of them barley being able to get by.

So no they shouldn't buy them and ship them for free they should only buy what they need and allow other countries to buy the rest. Again it's a matter of greed in both instances. Greed that's leading to millions getting sick and thousands dying. How you can ignore or accept this fact is interesting giving your stance on the problem the unvaccinated are causing.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433306]I get companies are in to make money but when it comes to a global pandemic they could do the right thing and make billions instead of trillions. Your acting like it's a matter of them barley being able to get by.

So no they shouldn't buy them and ship them for free they should only buy what they need and allow other countries to buy the rest. Again it's a matter of greed in both instances. Greed that's leading to millions getting sick and thousands dying. How you can ignore or accept this fact is interesting giving your stance on the problem the unvaccinated are causing.[/QUOTE]

Trillions? I think someone posted that there have been 380 million doses given out. No idea if that is right but let's use that.

Pfizer is charging 19.5 per dose. Let's assume their profit is $6 just a guess.

6 x 380 mill = 1.9 billion in profit so far. Just a guestimate but I don't think they are getting that rich on this at that price. Apparently moderna is charging only $15.

The road to a trillion is pretty long.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433319]Trillions? I think someone posted that there have been 380 million doses given out. No idea if that is right but let's use that.

Pfizer is charging 19.5 per dose. Let's assume their profit is $6 just a guess.

6 x 380 mill = 1.9 billion in profit so far. Just a guestimate but I don't think they are getting that rich on this at that price. Apparently moderna is charging only $15.

The road to a trillion is pretty long.[/QUOTE]

It was just a comparison it's not trillions but we are talking billions in sales. It's significantly higher than 1.9 billion. Here are some articles that highlight this.

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/17/rich-countries-hoarding-vaccines-us-eu-africa[/url]

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/2017272/rich-countries-are-buying-up-all-the-covid-19-vaccines/amp/[/url]

Here's another article highlighting how the greed of these wealthy countries will not only cost lives but cost the everyday person money. Meanwhile big pharma get filthy rich. [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/failure-vaccinate-globally-could-cost-2000-person-year-rich-nations[/url]

[QUOTE=8Ball;14432855]Follow up questions ? Just you asking what the benefit of forced vaccinations are numbers wise.

[B]We show you 80%+ of hospitalizations are amongst unvaccinated.
[/B]
Anymore followup questions needed to understand basic facts?[/QUOTE]

The bolded statement does not answer the basic questions I presented and it needs context. See this post here for more details: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14432305&viewfull=1#post14432305[/url]

Anyways, the basic questions I asked were never answered. I'll try again.

1) What is the absolute risk reduction for hospitalization/death over 6-12 months after becoming fully vaccinated? You can break it down by age groups.

2a) Suppose the unvaccinated (group A) are forced to become vaccinated. How many from group A would have to become vaccinated to save 1 life from the group that voluntarily chose to become vaccinated (group B)? And over what timeframe?

2b) Suppose forcing person A to be injected with a drug reduced the chances of person B to die by 0.001% over the course of 12 months. Would it be worth it to force person A to be injected? At what point would it be worth it?

3 & 4 are more directed at Tontoz for his absurd claims, but I'll list them again in case you happen to agree with his narrative regarding "overwhelmed hospitals" due to covid and the necessity to force masking and social distancing:

3a) How many infections did school closures prevent from March 2020 to June 2021?

3b) How many infections have masks prevented so far, or through June 2021?

4) There are 3,006 counties and 50 states in the US. How many counties & states had overwhelmed hospitals due to Covid-19 in 2020? 2021? Let's take a look at the data.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433056][B]The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals[/B].[/QUOTE]

Ah, see guys, the "real problem" is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals... or so he claims.

Let's see if tontoz can even back up his claim with basic data.

Let's break down what tontoz is claiming here:
After 18 months of preparation
$13.3 trillion in allocated spending in the name of Covid-19
Navy ships sailed out in April 2020 without seeing any patients
Field hospitals all torn down in April & May 2020
Hospitals emptier in 2020 than 2019 (without a vaccine)
70-80% of the high risk group now fully vaccinated
The unvaxxed have some level of immunity
States "hardest hit" have more hospital beds available than they had in March 2020 before Covid-19

His conclusion? The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

Well let's see if he has the data to back up his claim. We'll start with the basics:

Out of all the people in the hospitals, how many are vaccinated? How many are unvaccinated?

(No, I'm not talking about people who had a positive PCR test for Covid-19 while in the hospital, I'm asking out of all the people in the hospitals, how many are vaccinated? How many are unvaccinated?)

What is the absolute risk reduction for being hospitalized within 6 months of becoming fully vaccinated?

Next, there are 3,006 counties and 50 states in the US. How many counties & states had overwhelmed hospitals due to Covid-19 in 2020? 2021? Today? Let's take a look at the data.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433343]It was just a comparison it's not trillions but we are talking billions in sales. It's significantly higher than 1.9 billion. Here are some articles that highlight this.

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/17/rich-countries-hoarding-vaccines-us-eu-africa[/url]

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/2017272/rich-countries-are-buying-up-all-the-covid-19-vaccines/amp/[/url]

Here's another article highlighting how the greed of these wealthy countries will not only cost lives but cost the everyday person money. Meanwhile big pharma get filthy rich. [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/failure-vaccinate-globally-could-cost-2000-person-year-rich-nations[/url][/QUOTE]



My 1.9 billion number is meant to be profit, not revenue, on 380 million doses. There are a lot of costs for the R&D, production, storage and distribution of the vaccines. If they are selling for $20 or less i seriously doubt their profit margin is 40% or more.

If we are going to give away cheaper doses it has to be the governments call. The drug companies aren't going to do it voluntarily. They certainly aren't going to give away their patents to other countries.

Joe Rogan did a good podcast back in July where he brought in Abby Martin who completely trashed Israel for their treatment of Palestinians. Ugly stuff going on there. There were US citizens traveling over there to squat in Palestinian homes in occupied territories, basically stealing their homes right in front of them and there was nothing the Palestinians could do about it.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433128]LOL i literally went a year without posting about the topic at all.

In case you haven't been paying attention there has been a clear divide in how people view Covid based on politics.[B] Typically Republican governors more likely to be anti vax and anti prevention.[/B] In Florida the governor there is actually selling anti-Fauci tee shirts to fund his re-election campaign. He's banned masks in schools. Texas has already banned vaccine passports. And so on.

Dems have typically been more pro mask pro vaccine.

Whether you like it or not people's responses have been very political.[/QUOTE]

Lmao. There were masks and lockdowns in almost every "red" state in the country, including the two you just listed. Every governor promoted the shit outta the Trump vaccine and Operation Warp Speed. Hell, they still do! Abbott, the guy you claim "banned vaccine passports," was just telling everyone how wonderful the Trump vaccine is a week or so ago.

Literally zero governors swore in their Public Health Officials (which ALL promoted social distancing & wearing masks) for cross examination. The two you listed in particular, Florida and Texas both had lockdowns and mask mandates in most cities within the state in 2020. Did you read the Texas and FL bills regarding "vaccine passports?" They didn't ban vaccine passports bro. Companies all over the state require vaccines, including the Trump vaccine. Read the actual bill, not CNN headlines.

Both governors supported Trump's National State of Emergency, which provided the trillions of dollars to the states to go on with the charade. Both governors supported Trump's social distancing guidelines, Trump's mask urgency, Trump's travel bans, etc... and it appears you also support all of Trump's policies, including Trump's very own team members, such as Fauci.

At no point did any of those governors stand up in 2020 and tell people to stop social distancing, stop wearing masks, stop travel bans, and don't get the Trump vaccine. If they did, show it. Trump didn't do it either.

Anyways, let's see you back up your bold claims you keep making about masks, lockdowns, hospitals, and the Trump vaccine.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14433113]Btw Ill just lastly point out that altho it’s not scientific, there’s a respected tradition of proverbial wisdom in politics that says:

“If rrr3 is on your side... youre probably wrong.”


Just something to keep in mind.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

tontoz comes off as a guy who is well versed in mainstream narratives. probably has read dozens of articles from various corporate media outlets all pushing the same Official Narrative, thinking he's 'well rounded' on the topic.

"I even read some of the (controlled) opposition," he says unironically, "they think the masks are the sign of the devil and the (Trump) vaccine has microchips! LOL now I know I'm right!"

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433363]My 1.9 billion number is meant to be profit, not revenue, on 380 million doses. There are a lot of costs for the R&D, production, storage and distribution of the vaccines. If they are selling for $20 or less i seriously doubt their profit margin is 40% or more.

If we are going to give away cheaper doses it has to be the governments call. The drug companies aren't going to do it voluntarily. They certainly aren't going to give away their patents to other countries.

Joe Rogan did a good podcast back in July where he brought in Abby Martin who completely trashed Israel for their treatment of Palestinians. Ugly stuff going on there. There were US citizens traveling over there to squat in Palestinian homes in occupied territories, basically stealing their homes right in front of them and there was nothing the Palestinians could do about it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah i Don't know the exact profit but it's a shit ton i know that. That could take 10 times less profit and still get rich af. It really is disgusting. Here's an article showing how ridiculous it is [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/vaccine-monopolies-make-cost-vaccinating-world-against-covid-least-5-times-more[/url] I'm all for making a profit but not as much as it is and especially not at the expense of lives in a pandemic.

I see Cleverness popping in from time to time. If anyone is wondering why i don't respond to him i put him on the ignore list awhile back. He is literally the only person i ever put on ignore that i never even argued with. :oldlol:

The reasons should be obvious.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433375]Yeah i Don't know the exact profit but it's a shit ton i know that. That could take 10 times less profit and still get rich af. It really is disgusting. Here's an article showing how ridiculous it is [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/vaccine-monopolies-make-cost-vaccinating-world-against-covid-least-5-times-more[/url] I'm all for making a profit but not as much as it is and especially not at the expense of lives in a pandemic.[/QUOTE]

@ Bronbron

[url]https://covidmoneytracker.org/[/url]

Wait for it to load. Doing a simple search using the word "vaccine" shows at least $80 billion is allocated for Covid vaccinations.

Important to note that all of this spending is thanks to [B]Donald Trump's National declaration of Emergency[/B]. None of this is possible without it. The states simply don't have the funds to print $13.3 trillion for a War on Covid-19. This is Trump's War - Biden is just continuing where Trump left off.

If Trump didn't want any of this, he would have ended the emergency in March or April 2020 when the field hospitals were being torn down and Navy ships sailed out due to the rate of hospitalization being a tiny fraction of predicted (~2% vs 20-50%).

He could have ended his Nat'l Emergency (cuts off the $$$), said "stop social distancing, stop wearing masks, stop travel bans," swear-in and cross examine his entire team of quacks and fire them, etc. Republicans would be on board and the governors would (as they always had) followed Trump's lead, not only politically, but the states simply don't have trillions of dollars to support any sort of lockdowns to continue on and on like they did. I can go on but I think you get the point. I hope the link helps you.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433379]I see Cleverness popping in from time to time. If anyone is wondering why i don't respond to him i put him on the ignore list awhile back. He is literally the only person i ever put on ignore that i never even argued with. :oldlol:

The reasons should be obvious.[/QUOTE]

I asked you basic followup questions regarding your bold claims.

You haven't been able to answer them.

I'm guessing the cognitive dissonance started to get too heavy and the only way to block it out was to ignore any questioning to your absurd assertions.

You are literally insane.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433375]Yeah i Don't know the exact profit but it's a shit ton i know that. That could take 10 times less profit and still get rich af. It really is disgusting. Here's an article showing how ridiculous it is [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/vaccine-monopolies-make-cost-vaccinating-world-against-covid-least-5-times-more[/url] I'm all for making a profit but not as much as it is and especially not at the expense of lives in a pandemic.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but this doesn't pass the sniff test. The US govt has a lot of leverage when negotiating prices with the drug companies due to their buying power.

Even if that $1.20 production cost number was true, which i doubt, production is only one of the costs of bringing a vaccine to market. R&D, testing, storage, distribution... probably forgetting some things. Over time the cost will come down but that is not a believable number.

Do you really think our govt is so weak that they are willing to give the drug companies roughly an 85% profit margin in an emergency situation, especially when there has been so much talk about cutting drug prices in recent years?

I don't buy it.