MJ's 1988 DPOY is now being "Questioned". HOME vs ROAD Steals has twice as much Gap

[QUOTE=theman93;14923809]So then you’ll have to explain what, “Has Lebron James been chasing a ghost” has to do with the article.[/QUOTE]

To get people to click on the article.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14923810]It's an obvious hit piece.[/QUOTE]

How is it a hit piece when we can clearly see the games in question, the box scores.


Jordan got spoon fed free steals that year.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14923811]To get people to click on the article.[/QUOTE]

That’s not what I asked. I asked what relevancy does Lebron chasing a ghost have to do with an article written about stat discrepancies 40 years ago.

[QUOTE=theman93;14923808]Buddy, Lebron wouldn’t have been mentioned at all if this wasn’t a hit piece. In an article that had nothing to do with Lebron he somehow still made the headline? A headline about chasing MJ in the GOAT discussion? LOL cmon man we all know what this is really about. Take those blinders off sweety.[/QUOTE]

It's not a hit piece of the facts are all there in the article.


You can refute any of it.

[QUOTE=theman93;14923813]That’s not what I asked. I asked what relevancy does Lebron chasing a ghost have to do with an article written about stat discrepancies 40 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Because Jordan's GOAT status is highly dependant on awards he was given during his playing days. If certain awards were clearly fraudulent, Jordan's GOAT case is also discounted.


Haberstroh is allowed in 1 article to correct the record with Jordan's stats as well as write 1 paragraph here or there that Bron was chasing a ghost that was gifted inflated stats in 1988.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14923812]How is it a hit piece when we can clearly see the games in question, the box scores.


Jordan got spoon fed free steals that year.[/QUOTE]

Oh that's fine and all. You can believe that irrespective of an actual counter analysis. That's besides the point, though. It was made obviously with a clear intent in mind.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;14923794]All I take from this is that it's amazing the lengths Klutch are willing to go to prop up their guy. Putting analysts, reporters, anyone they can get their hands on, on the payroll. I was shocked when Broussard admitted the other day that Klutch "represent him". They are like a virus taking over.[/QUOTE]

Sickening.....truly puke worthy stuff!

Klutch Media should revise LBJ defensive seasons and try getting him into 200 and 100 Club.

Remember the talk, as soon as 1995 Pippen made to 200, 100 club, Pippen "deserves" DPOY award. in spite of All Defensive 1st team.

The amount of hate Jordan has for inventing 200 and 100 club is out in the open. Not just the guy got robbed of DPOY, now they want the legit, earned by doing even better following season DPOY award discredited.

I've never seen anything like this. In any other sport. NHL, NFL, MLB.

Only a joke of an association called NBA where all the power is held by one man, is where this charade is taking place.

No wonder no one watches NBA anymore.

Haberstroh did so much damage to Jordan's Legacy with this investigative journalism piece.


So delicious.


We can forever put a gigantic * on the 1988 DPOY award.

[QUOTE=theman93;14923813]That’s not what I asked. I asked what relevancy does Lebron chasing a ghost have to do with an article written about stat discrepancies 40 years ago.[/QUOTE]

The article says how James stated early in his career that he would like to win DPOY.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14923810][b]It's an obvious hit piece.[/b][/QUOTE]

A month ago, LBJ goes on his pod cast with JJ and literally questions how easily he should've ended up as 2013 DPOY.

A month later, Klutch Media minion publishes this poorly researched, fabricated article.

If there was ever a definition of "hit piece," look no further.

Here is one thing that baffles me.....

2013 LBJ is on SUPER STACKED team. His 2013 Season MVP is garbage in itself. Not earned but MANUFACTURED on his 2013 SUPER team.

Even LBJ 2012 season MVP is not legit. Entire world knew at some point, MIA SUPER team will have the best record by far in weak garbage East Conf.

His 2012, 2013 MVPs are ENGINEERED and this guy is worried about missing out on ENGINEERING 2013 DPOY. :roll:

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14923821]A month ago, LBJ goes on his pod cast with JJ and literally questions how easily he should've ended up as 2013 DPOY.

A month later, Klutch Media minion publishes this poorly researched, fabricated article.

If there was ever a definition of "hit piece," look no further.

Here is one thing that baffles me.....

2013 LBJ is on SUPER STACKED team. His 2013 Season MVP is garbage in itself. Not earned but MANUFACTURED on his 2013 SUPER team.

Even LBJ 2012 season MVP is not legit. Entire world knew at some point, MIA SUPER team will have the best record by far in weak garbage East Conf.

His 2012, 2013 MVPs are ENGINEERED and this guy is worried about missing out on ENGINEERING 2013 DPOY. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Meltdown.


Is Klutch Media in the room with us right now? :roll:


[IMG]https://i.imgflip.com/5s423z.png?a477528[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14923820]The article says how James stated early in his career that he would like to win DPOY.[/QUOTE]

2013 was his.


Mark Gasol wasn't even voted 1st team all defence that year.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14923815]Because Jordan's GOAT status is highly dependant on awards he was given during his playing days. If certain awards were clearly fraudulent, Jordan's GOAT case is also discounted.


Haberstroh is allowed in 1 article to correct the record with Jordan's stats as well as write 1 paragraph here or there that Bron was chasing a ghost that was gifted inflated stats in 1988.[/QUOTE]

Awards are only part of it. Statistical dominance and dominance on the court that led to winning that was only seen in the 60's is what else cements his status as GOAT.

Haberstroh is allowed to do whatever he wants. But let's stop pretending this wasn't written with the GOAT debate in mind.

Remember when MJ stans said that when "the last dance" project started back up again had nothing to do with James winning the title in 2016?

Now their saying that this embarrassing factual discovery of Jordsn stat fudging is a definite a hit piece by LeBron.

These mofos :cry:

[QUOTE=8Ball;14923823]2013 was his.


Mark Gasol wasn't even voted 1st team all defence that year.[/QUOTE]

Relax kid!

Gasol wasn't on NBA Royalty Elite Franchise like Kobe (LAL, BOS, PHILA, MIA)

Gasol was on garbage franchise (MEM). Who will vote him All Def 1st!

As long as he made it to All-D 2nd team, with Drating<100, 5.4 DWS, 1 SPG. He outright beat LeColluder and MIA who had easiest road offensively and defensively in East Conf.

None of LBJs MIA accolades and trophies are legit. It was forgone conclusion start of each season. and East Conf wasn't getting any better yr after yr.

[b]1987 Cooper DPOY was won at pathetic 108.4 DRtg @ 0.5 BPG @ 1.0 SPG. :roll:

Perks Cooper got for being on NBAs winningest franchise LAL :lol

1987 Cooper DPOY is considered the worst win of all DPOY wins so far![/b]

[QUOTE=theman93;14923813]That’s not what I asked. I asked what relevancy does Lebron chasing a ghost have to do with an article written about stat discrepancies 40 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Your question isn't relevant...

Plenty of articles have misleading titles to garner clicks. Lebron/Jordan is a hot topic so why not lead with that.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14923827]Your question isn't relevant...

Plenty of articles have misleading titles to garner clicks. [I][I][B]Lebron/Jordan is a hot topic so why not lead with that[/B][/I][/I].[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Because it’s written with that in mind. Why else would the article randomly quote Lebron on never winning DPOY near its end? Stop playing dumb lmao

This is a real bad look even for bron stan standards

Embarrassing

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14923825]Remember when MJ stans said that when "the last dance" project started back up again had nothing to do with James winning the title in 2016?

Now their saying that this embarrassing factual discovery of Jordsn stat fudging is a definite a hit piece by LeBron.

These mofos :cry:[/QUOTE]

This. The last dance was an 8 hour worship piece that told apparent half truths and these dudes are upset about an article with receipts. The thing that's always annoyed me about the goat debate is the hypocrisy and due to it I find myself defending my 2nd favorite player ever more than my favorite. :facepalm

[QUOTE=theman93;14923833]Exactly. Because it’s written with that in mind. Why else would the article randomly quote Lebron on never winning DPOY near its end? Stop playing dumb lmao[/QUOTE]

The connection between that and it being an actual hit piece is weak is all I'm saying. It's actually a well-constructed and thought-out article that doesn't really take a particular stance other than just reporting information.

It being under the guise of true Lebron vs MJ piece is secondary. It got people talking about it, which was the goal.

But this is nothing like that YouTuber who pores over hours of game tape to show Lebron's bad plays and his teammates good ones in a skewed context with a completely biased perspective.

[QUOTE=theman93;14923833]Exactly. Because it’s written with that in mind. Why else would the article randomly quote Lebron on never winning DPOY near its end? Stop playing dumb lmao[/QUOTE]



You Jordan fans loved it when Jordan made his own documentary to shit on Pippen in 1994 even when it had nothing to do with the "Last Dance".

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14923825]Remember when MJ stans said that when "the last dance" project started back up again had nothing to do with James winning the title in 2016?

Now their saying that this embarrassing factual discovery of Jordsn stat fudging is a definite a hit piece by LeBron.

These mofos :cry:[/QUOTE]

Yeah Jordan green lit the propaganda documentary the day of Bron's parade.

[QUOTE=theman93;14923833]Exactly. Because it’s written with that in mind. Why else would the article randomly quote Lebron on never winning DPOY near its end? Stop playing dumb lmao[/QUOTE]

How was it written with it in mind?



95% of the article is about Jordan's inflated stats in 1988 which led to him winning dpoy. The writer threw 5% of Bran in there for clicks, which is fine.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14923826]Relax kid!

Gasol wasn't on NBA Royalty Elite Franchise like Kobe (LAL, BOS, PHILA, MIA)

Gasol was on garbage franchise (MEM). Who will vote him All Def 1st!

As long as he made it to All-D 2nd team, with Drating<100, 5.4 DWS, 1 SPG. He outright beat LeColluder and MIA who had easiest road offensively and defensively in East Conf.

None of LBJs MIA accolades and trophies are legit. It was forgone conclusion start of each season. and East Conf wasn't getting any better yr after yr.

[b]1987 Cooper DPOY was won at pathetic 108.4 DRtg @ 0.5 BPG @ 1.0 SPG. :roll:

Perks Cooper got for being on NBAs winningest franchise LAL :lol

1987 Cooper DPOY is considered the worst win of all DPOY wins so far![/b][/QUOTE]

Gasol didn't even deserve all-defensive team. Look at where he ranked in the votes:

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/L9ZXGd5/Screenshot-2024-06-24-at-4-22-58-PM.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=8Ball;14923852]How was it written with it in mind?



95% of the article is about Jordan's inflated stats in 1988 which led to him winning dpoy. The writer threw 5% of Bran in there for clicks, which is fine.[/QUOTE]

Because he spends the whole article attempting to discredit MJ’s DPOY, and then ends the final segment of the article talking about how it’s used to help build MJ’s GOAT case and Lebron chasing MJ. Like I said, obvious hit piece is obvious.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;14923794]All I take from this is that it's amazing the lengths Klutch are willing to go to prop up their guy. Putting analysts, reporters, anyone they can get their hands on, on the payroll. I was shocked when Broussard admitted the other day that Klutch "represent him". They are like a virus taking over.[/QUOTE]

Telling the truth about something is bad. Got it.

Pathetic.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14923846]The connection between that and it being an actual hit piece is weak is all I'm saying. It's actually a well-constructed and thought-out article that doesn't really take a particular stance other than just reporting information.

It being under the guise of true Lebron vs MJ piece is secondary. It got people talking about it, which was the goal.

But this is nothing like that YouTuber who pores over hours of game tape to show Lebron's bad plays and his teammates good ones in a skewed context with a completely biased perspective.[/QUOTE]


Road records were MUCH worse in prior eras, which accounts for the home inflation of players back then.

Period

The assumption that the inflation was due to bad-record keeping was always a dumb assumption and Nick Wright said that he consulted on the project, so it WAS a hit piece - Lebron pays people to tear down his so-called childhood hero.. There's never been a bigger fraud.

But no one cares if you watched 5 games and think some of the steals weren't really steals - there's no reason to believe your new subjective ruling is better than the 1st subjective ruling... If you go into a project purposefully looking to reverse steals, assists or whatever you're looking for, you can always find examples because many hoops stats are subjective like assists, rebounds, steals and blocks.

[QUOTE=theman93;14923824]Awards are only part of it. Statistical dominance and dominance on the court that led to winning that was only seen in the 60's is what else cements his status as GOAT.

Haberstroh is allowed to do whatever he wants. But let's stop pretending this wasn't written with the GOAT debate in mind.[/QUOTE]

Who even cares if it was? It's interesting information regardless how you want to take it. You don't owe Jordan anything. No need to instantly dismiss everything that goes against what you believe.

[QUOTE=SATAN;14923928]Who even cares if it was? It's interesting information regardless how you want to take it. You don't owe Jordan anything. No need to instantly dismiss everything that goes against what you believe.[/QUOTE]

It’s a bball forum nerd. I’ll post what I want.

[QUOTE=theman93;14923931]It’s a bball forum nerd. I’ll make a fool out of myself desperately trying to move the goal posts while defending MJ at all costs.[/QUOTE]

We know.

[img]https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.makeagif.com%2Fmedia%2F6-23-2024%2FS7PyT5.gif[/img]



[B]1990 Hakeem

HOME'....... 233 blocks... 103 steals... 131 assists
ROAD........ 143 blocks..... 71 steals... 102 assists[/B]



[QUOTE=mullen;58616506]Amazing how all of that home energy and horrible road play didn’t help Scottie Pippen much. In the first 6 years of Pippen’s career COMBINED (1988-1993), he had a whopping 34 more steals at home than on the road.

MJ had 71 more steals at home than on the road during his 1988 season alone (lol), and 188 more steals at home than the road during that 6 year period.[/QUOTE]


Haberstroh is basically saying that all stats in the 80's and 90's were blatantly cheated and inflated [i]league-wide[/i] by record-keepers because it's been shown that Hakeem had the same kind of inflation in 1990, or Alvin Robertson in 1986.

But I'm realizing that these examples of massive inflation are [i]one-offs[/i] - Jordan achieved nearly the same blocks and steals in 87' but with little or no inflation, so 88' is a one-off of massive inflation for him, while 86' is a one-off for Robertson, and 90' is a one-off for Hakeem - these one-offs could be due to personal issues that affected their home/road performance... Otherwise, their other years have the standard "normal" inflation that occurred back then due to tougher road environments and the subsequent horrible road records of teams compared to today's teams.. Only 2 teams had .500 records on the road in 1988, while half the league does today (15 teams).

carry on but I really think I solved it - the "normal' inflation of home stats n previous eras was due to the tougher road environments and significantly worse road records that teams had back then, while the abnormal one-offs of massive home inflation like 90' Hakeem, 88' Jordan, or 86' Robertson are likely due to personal issues that affected home and road play.


[img]https://media1.tenor.com/m/6h6RdNXjrzEAAAAd/satisfaction-satisfied.gif[/img]

That doesn't clear Mjs name :oldlol: it just incriminates more of the era with him. What an unintentional idiot.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14923936]That doesn't clear Mjs name :oldlol: it just incriminates more of the era with him. What an unintentional idiot.[/QUOTE]


I wouldn't expect you to get it the first time around.. Hopefully, you'll skim through it again because I made it pretty clear... and simple evidence, aka road records of then vs now to explain the "normal' home inflation of all players back then, or the one-off nature of MJ, Hakeem or Alvin's massive inflation years (probably due to one-off personal issues that affected home vs road play)

[QUOTE=3ba11;14923942]I wouldn't expect you to get it the first time around.. Hopefully, you'll skim through it again because I made it pretty clear... and simple evidence, aka road records of then vs now to explain the "normal' home inflation of all players back then, or the one-off nature of MJ, Hakeem or Alvin's massive inflation years (probably due to one-off personal issues that affected home vs road play)[/QUOTE]

Sorry to burst you bubble, but the guy who made the article actually went back and watched games and saw fraud steals credited to MJ. This damage control is embarrassing.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14923944]Sorry to burst you bubble, but the guy who made the article actually went back and watched games and saw fraud steals credited to MJ. This damage control is embarrassing.[/QUOTE]


Subjective stats cannot be replaced by new subjective stats - I'll take the original, professional scorekeepers' ruling over some guy 30 years later with an axe to grind.

And I posted a gif in slow-motion of the play that Haberstroh mentioned on the Broussard show and it was a Jordan steal!!... Anyone can take the most negative interpretation every play and turn a few close calls the other way without anyone noticing.

Look at it from the other perspective... How much would you respect an article where the author said he watched 5 games of Lebron and noticed that 1-2 assists each game weren't really assists, AND THEREFORE lebron is not as good a passer as we thought... Would you respect this person's new subjective ruling of the assists over the original subjective ruling?... What if the mainstream media accepted it hook-line-and-sinker and started saying Lebron was just a "good" passer now and no longer "great"... Would that make sense?... Becauae that's what they've done with Jordan's defense..

Btw, do you realize that "the guy" who made the article is Lebron James and Klutch Sports?.. Nick wright already admitted to "consulting on the project"... they called it a "project" (to take down Jordan)... the entire media for some reason wants to do that.. I have no idea why... Is it because MJ doesn't give a crap about them?... Maybe that's why

[QUOTE=3ba11;14923950]Subjective stats cannot be replaced by new subjective stats - I'll take the original, professional scorekeepers' ruling over some guy 30 years later with an axe to grind.

And I posted a gif in slow-motion of the play that Haberstroh mentioned on the Broussard show and it was a Jordan steal!!... Anyone can take the most negative interpretation every play and turn a few close calls the other way without anyone noticing.

Look at it from the other perspective... How much would you respect an article where the author said he watched 5 games of Lebron and noticed that 1-2 assists each game weren't really assists, AND THEREFORE lebron is not as good a passer as we thought... Would you respect this person's new subjective ruling of the assists over the original subjective ruling?... What if the mainstream media accepted it hook-line-and-sinker and started saying Lebron was just a "good" passer now and no longer "great"... Would that make sense?... Becauae that's what they've done with Jordan's defense..

Btw, do you realize that "the guy" who made the article is Lebron James and Klutch Sports?.. Nick wright already admitted to "consulting on the project"... they called it a "project" (to take down Jordan)... the entire media for some reason wants to do that.. I have no idea why... Is it because MJ doesn't give a crap about them?... Maybe that's why[/QUOTE]

The author’s sources are a CEO of a Boys & Girls Club and a VP of development of a youth league in Europe who allegedly obtained 80’s/90’s tape from…..underground online trading forums (LMAO). No reason to take this seriously :lol

[QUOTE=theman93;14923965]The author’s sources are a CEO of a Boys & Girls Club and a VP of development of a youth league in Europe who allegedly obtained 80’s/90’s tape from…..underground online trading forums (LMAO). No reason to take this seriously :lol[/QUOTE]

These games are incredibly rare, the fact that he found these games from a seller in Europe just adds to his credibility.

I remember buying 80's NBA Finals games on Ebay when I was like 18, I can't imagine finding random regular season games from the same era on there. in the end it doesn't matter where he got these games as long as he has them.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14923966]These games are incredibly rare, the fact that he found these games from a seller in Europe just adds to his credibility.

I remember buying 80's NBA Finals games on Ebay when I was like 19, in the end it doesn't matter where he got these games as long as he has them.[/QUOTE]


Thread Cliffs and Synopsis of Fraud Exposure

Hakeem had massive home inflation of stats in 90', just like Alvin Robertson in 86', and MJ in 88'... But these were one-offs that could've occurred due to personal issues that affected their home/road performance... Otherwise, their other years have the standard "normal" inflation that occurred in previous eras due to tougher road conditions (no days off, no private jets, etc) [I]and the subsequent poor road records of teams compared to today's team[/I]s.. Only 2 teams had .500 records on the road in 1988, while half the league does today (15 teams).

[I]To summarize[/I], the "normal' inflation of home stats in previous eras was due to the tougher road environments and significantly worse road records that teams had back then, while the abnormal one-offs of massive home inflation like 90' Hakeem, 88' Jordan, or 86' Robertson are likely due to personal issues that affected home and road play.. Carry on.

Thread Cliffs

MJ was exposed.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14923970]Thread Cliffs

MJ was exposed.[/QUOTE]


Revised Thread Cliffs and Synopsis of Fraud Exposure

Hakeem had similar massive inflation of home stats in 90', just like Alvin Robertson in 86', and MJ in 88'... But this extreme inflation were one-offs that could've occurred due to personal issues that affected their home/road performance... Otherwise, their other years have the standard "normal" inflation that occurred in previous eras due to tougher road conditions (no days off, no private jets, etc) and the subsequent poor road records compared to today's teams.. Only 2 teams had .500 records on the road in 1988, while half the league does today (15 teams).

To summarize, the "normal' inflation of home stats in previous eras was due to the tougher road environments and significantly worse road records that teams had back then, while the abnormal one-offs of massive home inflation like 90' Hakeem, 88' Jordan, or 86' Robertson are likely due to personal issues that affected home and road play.. Carry on.