What are some unpopular basketball beliefs that you have?

[QUOTE=Tavr;15020198]Not sure they're LeBron stans who took to those polls, but even at that time, I remember there being a lot of debate on Curry being robbed. Saying thats "revisionist history" is completely incorrect. And ironically revisionism. I personally think Steph shouldlve won it just based on the criteria they've used since Jerry West.

Gotta wonder why they went astray?[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I was going to ignore those posts but when they started talking about revisionist history….that was just a bridge too far.

The reason they went astray? Well it’s an award voted by the media, and the media crafts their narratives they think will be the most popular. In this case it’s an all about Lebron James narrative. Some of them tried to give the MVP to him, but a lot ended up giving it to iggy which was pretty much a low key vote for Lebron. Iggy winning it was a way of the media circling it back around and making everything still about James.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;15020203]Who said he didn't need help? Which all-timer hasn't? Again, whatever prompts you to drag Lebron into spaces where there's zero reason to is your problem.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Who's to say it wasn't a greater strategic move to spread out scoring a bit because it increased the chances of the team being a consistent contender vs forcing the ball into Duncan to drop 25 a night? Who's to say its not the inverse of your point where it was his presence that opened up the game for them to score more, instead of it being a reliance? Duncan proved himself before those two came into the league. You're arguing the chicken or the egg.

His game wasn't flashy nor was his personality, and I think that is mostly why he tends to be overlooked. But this notion that this is the case because Manu and Parker took on greater scoring roles as he aged? Sorry, not buying that for a dollar. Ma[/QUOTE]
No need to discredit his fmvp teammates and Manu. Even Danny Green almost won it in 2013. You guys just pick and choose who you want to defend.

If Reinsdorf didn't own the White Sox.... no way Jordan walks away in the middle of his Bulls contract and look for a team who might hopefully sign him.

With Jerry owning the White Sox, MJ gets to be the highest paid minor leaguer by still collecting his Bulls checks.

Then MLB goes on strike. Jerry isn't going to just let Mike do nothing and still collect checks so he has no choice but to comeback to play for the Bulls the remainder of the 1995 season.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15020205]Agreed. I was going to ignore those posts but when they started talking about revisionist history….that was just a bridge too far.

The reason they went astray? Well it’s an award voted by the media, and the media crafts their narratives they think will be the most popular. In this case it’s an all about Lebron James narrative. Some of them tried to give the MVP to him, but a lot ended up giving it to iggy which was pretty much a low key vote for Lebron. Iggy winning it was a way of the media circling it back around and making everything still about James.[/QUOTE]

15-66

[QUOTE=LAL;15020206]No need to discredit his fmvp teammates and Manu.[/QUOTE]

Except that's not discrediting them. It's saying that Manu and Parker's contributions to those teams from the mid 2000s on doesn't diminish Duncan's greatness. It's saying that featuring Manu and Parker in scoring diversified the team offense, and made them more dangerous than forcing the ball into Duncan and kept them a contender over 15 years. Ballers argument was that Duncan needed to lean on those guys scoring, and my counter was to say why isn't it the inverse? Where is the line drawn between Duncan opening up the game for those guys, vs him benefiting from them? And even if its the latter, why does that make him any less great? Magic isn't less great because Worthy won the 88 finals MVP and often led the team in scoring. Bird isn't less great because he had years with Mchale averaging 26 a night. And if the net result of sharing the ball more was they won a title, isn't that the point? So yes, there is nuance here and then there is boiling things down to very simple, low hanging fruit talking points. Not to discount that Baller himself doesn't even agree with the idea that the extent of Duncan's greatness depends on the roles Manu and Parker played as the years passed, he's just saying this is his perception of why OTHERS downplay him.

None of that undermines that Duncan was 15x all-nba, 15x all-defense, 2 time MVP just in terms of individual accolades, and won two titles with Finals MVPs before Manu or Parker become anything else to all-star caliber players. So you can take away the final 2 rings that he didn't win FMVP for because you want to assign greater credit to Parker/Manu/Kawhi, and his career is still comfortably top 10. It's weird for a Kobe/LA fan to downplay how good he was to push a narrative that he's being overrated to boost Lebron. Really fukking weird, but do you.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15019978]It’s called a unpopular opinion, not a ridiculous statement that has no fundamental place even existing in the game.

Yea let’s make basketball a different sport. UNPOPULAR![/QUOTE]

Ok let’s just regurgitate the same wannabe edgy takes fools have had for 20 plus years?

Stfu sucker.

Here’s an unpopular opinion.

Jordan, LeBron, and Kobe are all not top 5.

Let’s go pages.

Lebron and Giannis are allowed to travel and push-off on most drives of their career. They're not as good as they are manufactured.

Almost ALL players carry the ball on every single dribble.

[QUOTE=fsvr54;15020225]Lebron and Giannis are allowed to travel and push-off on most drives of their career. They're not as good as they are manufactured.

[B]Almost ALL players carry the ball on every single dribble.[/B][/QUOTE]

Shit that's like the opposite of unpopular lol. That's a pretty widely held viewpoint. I mean, almost 'all' players and 'every' dribble is a bit over the top, but alot of today's moves are definitely only possible because they've swallowed the whistle on alot of things that would have been considered a travel/carry years ago.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15020205]Agreed. I was going to ignore those posts but [B]when they started talking about revisionist history….that was just a bridge too far.[/B]

The reason they went astray? Well it’s an award voted by the media, and the media crafts their narratives they think will be the most popular. In this case it’s an all about Lebron James narrative. Some of them tried to give the MVP to him, but a lot ended up giving it to iggy which was pretty much a low key vote for Lebron. Iggy winning it was a way of the media circling it back around and making everything still about James.[/QUOTE]

Its a bizarre claim considering MOST people here watched that series, and likely argued it on this very forum. :lol Sports talk shows around the freaking world debated whether Iguodala deserved it. I'm not going to say it was some elaborate "Pro LeBron" conspiracy, but you are 100% correct with them pushing a narrative. Back in 2015, LeBron was wildfire when it pertained to driving NBA interest.

[QUOTE=Tavr;15020228]Its a bizarre claim considering MOST people here watched that series, and likely argued it on this very forum. :lol Sports talk shows around the freaking world debated whether Iguodala deserved it. I'm not going to say it was some elaborate "Pro LeBron" conspiracy, but you are 100% correct with them pushing a narrative. Back in 2015, LeBron was wildfire when it pertained to driving NBA interest.[/QUOTE]

Yes. It was very controversial at the time. Acting like it was hands down Iguodala in June of 2015 and anyone questioning it now is “revisionist history” is just insane and laughable. Even more so because the posters who were peddling that were legit watching at the time and were there. It’s revisionist history calling what really happened revisionist history. Lol.

I’m not saying it’s any sort of conspiracy really. If Media guys think they are going to get more views by crafting a narrative a certain way, they will do it. Like you said LeBron in 2015 was the cash cow in this regard.

The actual narrative that a team that came out of nowhere got to the Finals and faced a Lebron James superteam who had some untimely injuries was not the most compelling storyline. They would rather craft it as a LeBron vs all odds and he was going to find a way to win somehow until Iguodala miraculously steps up to deny him. That’s not what happened but it is way more dramatic and sells better.

9/10 times the answer is money.

The only reason it was controversial in your mind is because you prematurely made a "Curry Finals MVP" celebration thread moments before they gave it to Iggy.

LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry, in fact Curry didn't receive a single vote.:oldlol:

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15020240]The only reason it was controversial in your mind is because you prematurely made a "Curry Finals MVP" celebration thread moments before they gave it to Iggy.

LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry, in fact Curry didn't receive a single vote.:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that’s the only reason.

Not like he dictated blitz traps from 30 feet out all game every game and still managed to beat them.

You talked about box score earlier which is hilarious because Steph is one of the number one guys where it comes to box scores not showing his true value due to his goat spacing and goat number of hockey assists which don’t get recorded.

You try to craft this “shut down by delly narrative” which is ridiculous since he was being hard doubled every time in half court situations from way behind the 3 point line. Trying to imply delly shut him down individually is just inaccurate and disingenuous. The entire Cavs team defensive gameplan was to deny Curry at any cost and let the others beat us. Guess what even with the strat to go all in on Curry. Klay Thompson scored under 16 ppg on an absolutely dreadful, worse than allen iverson, 51% TS.

Yet you guys wanna glaze Thompson as best second option ever when he can’t score 16 ppg on league average efficiency while Curry is legit getting double teamed 24/7.

You are a clown.

[QUOTE=John8204;15019736]The 77' Ring is the greatest championship of all-time.[/QUOTE]

One of the most impressive for sure.

Blazers played and beat the two best defensive teams in the league during the first two rounds, a peak Kareem in the WCF & a stacked Sixers team in the Finals after being down 0-2.

Steph scored 26 ppg on 59% TS while seeing aggressive double teams the entire series and Lebron stans try to fade him

Klay scores under 10 points less on 51% TS while seeing wide open looks and the same guys glaze him as this next level elite second option

Lebron stans are literally the worst

[I]I remember they were neck and neck, KD and Steph," Young recalled on a recent episode of "Gil's Arena," featuring host Gilbert Arenas. "And then Steph had one bad game and KD was hitting. [In the] locker room, Steph's head was down, damn near in tears -- after a win.

"He wanted to win that [award]. KD was trying to give it to him. KD had won it the year before so he was trying to give it to him. But Steph couldn't make a shot. He had like the lowest he's scored in the Finals. But it was a sweep."[/I]

[url]https://x.com/GilsArenaShow/status/1800671137111941171?s=19[/url]

[QUOTE=LAL;15020202]Sure bro tim duncan didn't need help from
Parker Manu or Kawhi and he could've averaged
35 past his prime but didn't want to. Great
eye compared to us sportscenter hightlight watchers.[/QUOTE]

If I missed a Spurs' game, looked at the box score and Duncan had more than 20/10, I knew that he had to step it up because his teammates were sucking that night. TD didn't care about scoring - he cared about winning. All great players need help, and he had the patience to WAIT a long time for Manu, Parker and Kawhi (all so raw) to mature.

His was a career of sustained excellence (sans 2011 when he had plantar fasciitis and suffering from Pop's fascination with Bonner/Blair). Plus hearing that Richard Jefferson commentate the entire NBA Finals reminded me of those "lost" drought years, but TD stuck it out and was rewarded with the icing on the cake - a beautiful 2014 Finals.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15020247][I]I remember they were neck and neck, KD and Steph," Young recalled on a recent episode of "Gil's Arena," featuring host Gilbert Arenas. "And then Steph had one bad game and KD was hitting. [In the] locker room, Steph's head was down, damn near in tears -- after a win.

"He wanted to win that [award]. KD was trying to give it to him. KD had won it the year before so he was trying to give it to him. But Steph couldn't make a shot. He had like the lowest he's scored in the Finals. But it was a sweep."[/I]

[url]https://x.com/GilsArenaShow/status/1800671137111941171?s=19[/url][/QUOTE]

You are the only guy I know with an IQ lower than Nick Young. :roll:

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15020260]You are the only guy I know with an IQ lower than Nick Young. :roll:[/QUOTE]

LOL - since I'm not a guy and you obviously don't know me, it's questionable what you know about my IQ.

My apologies, Warriorfan. Blame it on old eyes - bleary in the morning.

Penny Hardaways peak is overrated. I'm supposed to get excited over 20/7/4 over 2 seasons.

Maurice Stokes career and tragedy should get mentioned more often.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15019729]Gobert, bum, cotm, sloan, stockton... you all know :rockon:[/QUOTE]

So what is your actual take?

Anyways

2017 Cavs are the best offensive team in NBA history and would beat 90% of teams that won a championship they got unlucky and ran into the greatest team of all time

Curry deserved finals MVP in both 2015 & 2017

The top Euro league teams can beat the top NBA teams in a 7 game series

Cant quit me!

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15019714]I'll start.

- Shawn Kemp was the best defender on the '96 Sonics, even over Gary Payton who won DPOY that season.[/QUOTE]

Best player on those Sonics teams as well.

[video=youtube;Ud4RNjjwg_8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud4RNjjwg_8[/video]

[video=youtube;RfDmNdN-8FA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfDmNdN-8FA[/video]

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15020298]Penny Hardaways peak is overrated. I'm supposed to get excited over 20/7/4 over 2 seasons.
[/QUOTE]

20pts was a lot for anyone back then, almost unheard of for a PG. Plus the way he orchestrated that team and the athleticism was off the chart. A complete unicorn.

Basketball fans are the most inconsistent in their line of reasoning when it comes to their logic about how they perceive players. 90-95 percent debate like a female would.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15020324]20pts was a lot for anyone back then, almost unheard of for a PG. Plus the way he orchestrated that team and the athleticism was off the chart. A complete unicorn.[/QUOTE]
Tim Hardaway avg 23 and 11 and couldn't dunk.

[QUOTE=rmt;15020286]LOL - since I'm not a guy and you obviously don't know me, it's questionable what you know about my IQ.

My apologies, Warriorfan. Blame it on old eyes - bleary in the morning.[/QUOTE]

Was posting at Hey Yo, not you

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15020334]Tim Hardaway avg 23 and 11 and couldn't dunk.[/QUOTE]

Taking a lot more shots and with less efficiency. Run TMC may as well have had Mike D'Antoni coaching them.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15020357]Taking a lot more shots and with less efficiency. Run TMC may as well have had Mike D'Antoni coaching them.[/QUOTE]

46 % ain't that bad when shooting five 3's in like 1991. Unheard of back then lol.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15020357]Taking a lot more shots and with less efficiency. Run TMC may as well have had Mike D'Antoni coaching them.[/QUOTE]

Timmy was a beast and had the best non carry crossover.

[video=youtube;mEULrOSvmXY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEULrOSvmXY[/video]

Funniest thing about this I think it was a preseason game. He was a competitor in every sense of the word and that goes along way.

If Jordan doesn’t get hurt, the 02 Wizards would’ve made the playoffs and could’ve realistically gotten to the Finals, only to get destroyed by the Lakers. Has just as much, if not more to do with how incredibly weak the East was as it does to do with Jordan’s greatness.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15020298][B]Penny Hardaways peak is overrated. I'm supposed to get excited over 20/7/4 over 2 seasons.
[/B]
Maurice Stokes career and tragedy should get mentioned more often.[/QUOTE]

Eh, I mean I was always of the view that Grant Hill was a hair better in the mid/late 90s and just had a bit more size and versatility to go with comparable athleticism. But I wouldn't go as far as saying Penny's peak was overrated, for no other reason that he didn't really have one. Unless you're saying the best we saw from him is what you're calling overrated? Penny was 24 for the 96 season, Derrick Rose was 23 his MVP year, Tmac was 23 for the 03 season. We really never got to see the 'peaks' of any of them. Penny's peak should have really started at the exact time his knees went out, around 98 or so. Maybe he does benefit a bit from the 'what if' aspect of things, but we can't act like there wasn't a period in that 95/96 timeframe when he was matching up with Jordan and Pippen and not giving them the business at times.

We saw in real time how good he actually was 2-3 years in without boiling it down to the numbers you dropped. And he gave a glimpse of what he was capable of when Shaq was out for part of the 96 season, 26/6/5 in 28 games. It's very obvious he was well-positioned to be the leagues best guard and probably the league's face (or it would have been him and Hill battling for that) bridging the 2nd phase of MJs career and when Kobe took off.

[QUOTE=guy;15020408]If Jordan doesn’t get hurt, the 02 Wizards would’ve made the playoffs and could’ve realistically gotten to the Finals, only to get destroyed by the Lakers. Has just as much, if not more to do with how incredibly weak the East was [B]as it does to do with Jordan’s greatness.[/B][/QUOTE]


So a hypothetical that didn't come close to occuring is a statement to Jordan's greatness?

Right.

Most players in the nba couldnt function without a pick. They would be helpless even with handchecking and playing physical defense banned. They need switches and or screens to score.


If the nba ever banned PnR a lot of your favorite players would be out of the league within 3 years.

Jordan vs LeBron vs Curry vs Pippen vs your mom 12 plus pages of so called unpopular opinions.

Y’all are a disgrace to the human race.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15020050]Sam Jones doesn't get enough recognition for the Celtics Dynasty. Was probably the 2nd most important player after Russell. They didn't miss a beat after Cousy retired.[/QUOTE]

Prime for prime Hal Greer may have been better. Better all-around for sure.

I was doing some research on Greer years ago and was surprised how well his defense was regarded. Jones was just a scorer.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;15020418]Eh, I mean I was always of the view that Grant Hill was a hair better in the mid/late 90s and just had a bit more size and versatility to go with comparable athleticism. But I wouldn't go as far as saying Penny's peak was overrated, for no other reason that he didn't really have one. Unless you're saying the best we saw from him is what you're calling overrated? Penny was 24 for the 96 season, Derrick Rose was 23 his MVP year, Tmac was 23 for the 03 season. We really never got to see the 'peaks' of any of them. Penny's peak should have really started at the exact time his knees went out, around 98 or so. Maybe he does benefit a bit from the 'what if' aspect of things, but we can't act like there wasn't a period in that 95/96 timeframe when he was matching up with Jordan and Pippen and not giving them the business at times.

We saw in real time how good he actually was 2-3 years in without boiling it down to the numbers you dropped. And he gave a glimpse of what he was capable of when Shaq was out for part of the 96 season, 26/6/5 in 28 games. It's very obvious he was well-positioned to be the leagues best guard and probably the league's face (or it would have been him and Hill battling for that) bridging the 2nd phase of MJs career and when Kobe took off.[/QUOTE]

Yea this is why I hate hyper focusing on stats. Penny is one of the most special players my eyes have seen in my 32 years watching basketball.

The word that comes to mind with Penny for me is "poise". Whenever he had the ball you just trusted him to make the right decision. Plus he could beat you 1 on 1.

He always looked like he had total control of the game.

'92 Dream Team would lose against the 2012 USA Basketball team

- Peak LeBron
- Peak CP3
- Kobe

KD & Carmelo who were monsters in international play.

Only weak spot was their big men. But Chandler was coming off a DPOY award.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15021127]'92 Dream Team would lose against the 2012 USA Basketball team

- Peak LeBron
- Peak CP3
- Kobe

KD & Carmelo who were monsters in international play.

[B]Only weak spot was their big men.[/B] But Chandler was coming off a DPOY award.[/QUOTE]

You say that so flippantly. They would have no answer to absolute prime David Robinson and Ewing. Not to mention Malone.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15021139]You say that so flippantly. They would have no answer to absolute prime David Robinson and Ewing. Not to mention Malone.[/QUOTE]

Chandler doesn't bring much offense but at least he is a proven defender and a big body you could throw at D-Rob/Ewing. I can see LeBron not doing so bad on Malone. Can't imagine Magic guarding CP3. Bird would be damn near unplayable guarding LeBron, Durant, & Melo.

What people have to keep in mind is that Durant & Melo were probably better international players than NBA players, especially Melo.

2012 team has more shooting and more versatile defenders from top to bottom. The '92 team had 4-5 players who got heavy minutes who could be defensive liabilities at times, especially Magic & Bird.