Ben Wallace and Joakim Noah separated in locker room...at half time

[QUOTE=mhg88]:roll: I'm loving Ben's new "Wallets" nickname. Cracks me up every time[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

Me too. But was this his nickname for a while now? I just noticed it in the first post in this topic and was like "wow, this caught on quickly" when the next few posts all referred to him by the "Wallets" moniker. :oldlol:

I don't understand how anyone sides with Noah on this.

Yes, ok, maybe he has a valid point on the issue, but this is hardly the only time in NBA history that this has happened. It happens all the time.

And the real issue here is, his methods. You're a rookie. You've done squat in this league. Your the one paying his dues, putting up with all the degrading things they do to rookies. And you come in and start a confrontation with your teammates? And hasn't he allegedly been suspended already twice this season?

This kid is coming into the league and making a name for himself, but its not on the court where it should be.

Good players lead by example. They don't start crap with teammates and complain that the team is laughing instead of winning when they haven't even proven they have what it takes to win.

Noah has been a joke since day one in the league. And if you disagree with that, look no further than his draft day photos.

If there's any truth to any of this, he's going to find himself out of the league quickly.

Mathius

[QUOTE=Da KO King]Where did you get the story about a physical confrontation? Everything I read hinted at a shouting match.[/QUOTE]
yes it just says confrontation. perhaps I misread or picked it up from another post. Regardless, they call the wallace noah thing a confrontation as well

[QUOTE=boozehound]yes it just says confrontation. perhaps I misread or picked it up from another post. Regardless, they call the wallace noah thing a confrontation as well[/QUOTE]


Here is an article which rips on "Big Bum":

[url]http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariottiweb/743064,011608mariottiweb.article[/url]


Mariotti is a tool, but he sometimes hits the nail on the head like with this article about the moronic Wallet.

Ben Wallace is a cancer, nuff said.

Ben Wallace has no pride to be playing the way he is.

[QUOTE=boozehound]i love how everyone is acting like players on the bench laughing while there team is losing is sooo uncommon in the nba. where was the thread about what a little ***** noah is for physically confronting a coach. Yeah, thats not a more important issue to most coaches than laughing on the bench :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, however, if I read correctly, you're an idiot. This isn't solely about laughing on the bench, it's the PRINCIPLE of it. The Bulls played with heart last year and ended the year with a solid record. This year, not only are they playing like complete sh*t and losing games, they're laughing it up. Again, Noah confronting the coach has nothing to do with "laughing on the bench when you lose," it is the PRINCIPLE of doing it while consistently losing. Yes, Noah is a rookie and hasn't paid his dues, however, rookie or not, you don't laugh it up especially when you're having a season like the Bulls are having. Noah is doing what is right for the TEAM, while Big Ben Wallets is sitting back laughing it up with all money, what a f*cking liability.

[QUOTE=knickscity]Lmao...:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Balkman is gonna be sixth man of the year with 3 and 3.

[QUOTE=w00terz]Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, however, if I read correctly, you're an idiot. This isn't solely about laughing on the bench, it's the PRINCIPLE of it. The Bulls played with heart last year and ended the year with a solid record. This year, not only are they playing like complete sh*t and losing games, they're laughing it up. Again, Noah confronting the coach has nothing to do with "laughing on the bench when you lose," it is the PRINCIPLE of doing it while consistently losing. Yes, Noah is a rookie and hasn't paid his dues, however, rookie or not, you don't laugh it up especially when you're having a season like the Bulls are having. Noah is doing what is right for the TEAM, while Big Ben Wallets is sitting back laughing it up with all money, what a f*cking liability.[/QUOTE]

No, I think its you guys who are missing the point. Whether Noah is right or not, you don't go about fixing things by starting confrontations with your teammates, or getting suspended, or getting into it with your coach. Those are not the correct way of doing things, period.

The fact that Noah is a rookie makes it that much worse. Here is a guy who has done nothing in this league to prove he is a winner, and he has the audacity to rail into his teammates for having a good time when they're not winning.

What about a team like Seattle and Minnesota? Are they supposed to hang their heads in shame all year long and not have a moment of laughter because their record is so awful?

Mathius

[QUOTE=rawimpact]What i'd do to see:

[IMG]http://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/standalone/gq/feature/1106/athletes/00016f.jpg[/IMG]


[SIZE="7"]VS[/SIZE]

[IMG]http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/ap_joakim_noah_070629_ms.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

ROFLMFAO :bowdown: :applause: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:
That looks like Sabertooth vs. Bozo The Clown

[QUOTE=w00terz]Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, however, if I read correctly, you're an idiot. This isn't solely about laughing on the bench, it's the PRINCIPLE of it. The Bulls played with heart last year and ended the year with a solid record. This year, not only are they playing like complete sh*t and losing games, they're laughing it up. Again, Noah confronting the coach has nothing to do with "laughing on the bench when you lose," it is the PRINCIPLE of doing it while consistently losing. Yes, Noah is a rookie and hasn't paid his dues, however, rookie or not, you don't laugh it up especially when you're having a season like the Bulls are having. Noah is doing what is right for the TEAM, while Big Ben Wallets is sitting back laughing it up with all money, what a f*cking liability.[/QUOTE]
first off, noah isnt doing ****. second when you have been one of the most disruptive memebrs of the team (which seems to be the case based on media reports, etc), no one is going to take it well when you try and lead (esp. since you arent doing it by example). Wallace may suck, I never denied that. My point was simply that laughing on the bench of the losing team happens every week in the nba, and noah's brief history in the nba puts him about as far from a team leader as you can be. grow up you homers. If you took all of bens mins and split them between noah and thomas (or aaron or whatever), you would still have the same crappy record and be the worst team in the central.

so if the coach doesnt think its a big deal, maybe you homers should relax?

[B]

Coach Jim Boylan didn't think the issue of players laughing on the bench late in Tuesday's ugly loss to Orlando merited much attention. "I don't that it's indicative of the way the guys feel about the game," Boylan said. "We have guys in the locker room who really care. There are moments on the bench too when they're looking really down. In the locker room after the game, they're quiet, they're upset."[/B] Arlington Heights Daily Herald

Chris Duhon gave some additional insight into Joakim Noah's rant against assistant coach Ron Adams last week and Jim Boylan's reaction to it. "As soon as it happened, Jim wanted him gone for the whole trip," Duhon said Wednesday during an appearance on WMVP 1000-AM. "When it happened, Jim was really upset and just wanted him to get on a plane then and there and go back to Chicago." Arlington Heights Daily Herald

Despite reports in two newspapers that Ben Wallace and rookie Joakim Noah had to be separated after exchanging words in the locker room following a loss in Orlando, the Bulls maintain there was no altercation or argument. ''Maybe y'all messed it up,'' Wallace said to reporters before the game. ''Go ask Joakim. I know I'm not gonna talk about it because I don't have anything to say about it.'' Chicago Sun-Times

[B]Bulls coach Jim Boylan had plenty to say. ''I know all about it, and there was no argument,'' he said. ''I don't know why it was reported that way. A couple of things were said, but there was no confrontation. There was no one going after each other. There were no angry words. ''I spoke to both guys together this morning. They laughed about it. They can't believe that it was reported like that. I find it disappointing that it's put in the paper without really being substantiated in any way and to have it said by someone. I don't think that's fair.''[/B] Chicago Sun-Times

Guard Chris Duhon said the other players rallied around Noah and labeled the reports ''a lot of false accusations.'' ''After the suspensions, they were trying to make Joakim seem like a bad guy, like he was tearing apart this team,'' Duhon said. ''He's not. We enjoy his energy. He's a great kid. There's times where he has too much energy and needs to take a step back, but other than that, we love him." Chicago Sun-Times


[URL="http://insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml"]http://insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml[/URL]

Is Ben Wallace wrong for laughing during a close (but slightly behind) game is going on? Yes - 5 badness points

Has Wallace underperformed this year? Yes - 10 badness points

Is Noah wrong for complaining loudly in the lockerroom? (i.e. addressing the problem in the most confrontational way possible) Yes - 3 badness points

Is Noah a rookie who hasn't paid his dues yet or performed at a level deserving shaming rights? Yes - 2 badness points

Is Noah wrong for constant tardiness? Yes - 15 badness points

Is Noah wrong for calling out his teammates after his first NBA game? Yes - 5 badness points

Is Noah wrong for the verbal confrontation with an assistant coach? Yes - 20 badness points.

Wallace - 15 badness points
Noah - 45 badness points

Both players are bringing their team down, but I think Noah's collective actions are causing much bigger problems. Also, you can't blame Wallace for signing a big contract - that's the GM's fault. This instance is probably more Wallace's fault than Noah's fault, but the kid has NO IDEA how to be appropriate with coaches, teammates, or the media. Shoving a sock in it is recommended.

Noah isn't bringing the team down one iota. it all stems from big bum. he is what has brought this team down and continues to do so. all noah is doing is bringing down Big Bum's fraudulent team and i'm glad that he is doing so. noah is a bad ass rookie. he doesn't get enough PT but if he did, he could easily get a double double every night plus you gotta love Noah's battle crys. right now, this team just isn't trying very hard because they look at Big Bum and do what he is doing. that's the whole problem and that's why Big Bum is a cancer. there's nothing wrong wtih the other guys when you look at the magnitude of ****edupness that is Ben Wallace.

[QUOTE=JPR]Noah isn't bringing the team down one iota. it all stems from big bum. he is what has brought this team down and continues to do so. all noah is doing is bringing down Big Bum's fraudulent team and i'm glad that he is doing so. noah is a bad ass rookie. he doesn't get enough PT but if he did, he could easily get a double double every night plus you gotta love Noah's battle crys. right now, this team just isn't trying very hard because they look at Big Bum and do what he is doing. that's the whole problem and that's why Big Bum is a cancer. there's nothing wrong wtih the other guys when you look at the magnitude of ****edupness that is Ben Wallace.[/QUOTE]
nice excuses. so the "professional" athletes who are all well past their rookie season on the bulls see big ben sucking it up and say hey why dont I suck it up as well? Of course hes an easy scapegoat, he makes retarded money and is an undersized hustle guy past his prime. To blame all the bulls problems on him is obviously a stupid and childish way to approach it.

[QUOTE=ChiBulls7]Just to add to the bulls problems. Wonderful.
Quick photoshop for ya rawimpact
[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/JakeN7/haha.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

That's great haha! :applause:

[QUOTE=boozehound]nice excuses. so the "professional" athletes who are all well past their rookie season on the bulls see big ben sucking it up and say hey why dont I suck it up as well? Of course hes an easy scapegoat, he makes retarded money and is an undersized hustle guy past his prime. To blame all the bulls problems on him is obviously a stupid and childish way to approach it.[/QUOTE]

then you just don't know basketball or the concept of a leader.

[QUOTE=JPR]Noah isn't bringing the team down one iota. it all stems from big bum. he is what has brought this team down and continues to do so. all noah is doing is bringing down Big Bum's fraudulent team and i'm glad that he is doing so. noah is a bad ass rookie. he doesn't get enough PT but if he did, he could easily get a double double every night plus you gotta love Noah's battle crys. right now, this team just isn't trying very hard because they look at Big Bum and do what he is doing. that's the whole problem and that's why Big Bum is a cancer. there's nothing wrong wtih the other guys when you look at the magnitude of ****edupness that is Ben Wallace.[/QUOTE]

While the +/- stat agrees with you that Noah is outplaying Wallace, it seems that Gordon and Hinrich are a bigger problem on the court this season. If you want to place blame, I can assure you it doesn't all stem from Wallace:

[url]http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22007&split=9&team=Bulls[/url]

However, I think Noah has been the biggest off-the-court problem for them this season, and based on this thread there are quite a few that agree with me.

[QUOTE=JPR]then you just don't know basketball or the concept of a leader.[/QUOTE]

Anyone who understands that there are 5 teammates on the court at once can understand that the problems are more than Wallace.

Anyone who has noticed that Noah has conflicted with both his coach and teammate understands that Noah is the problem here. Wallace isn't fighting with anyone else, and nobody on the Bulls is speaking up for Wallace to sit out games. Can't say that for Noah.

[QUOTE=Patrick27]While the +/- stat agrees with you that Noah is outplaying Wallace, it seems that Gordon and Hinrich are a bigger problem on the court this season. If you want to place blame, I can assure you it doesn't all stem from Wallace:

[url]http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22007&split=9&team=Bulls[/url]

However, I think Noah has been the biggest off-the-court problem for them this season, and based on this thread there are quite a few that agree with me.[/QUOTE]
are you sure? Im getting[URL="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joakim_noah/index.html"]noah at +7.10[/URL] and [URL="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_wallace/"]wallace at +12.91[/URL] for the EFF stat.

[QUOTE=JPR]then you just don't know basketball or the concept of a leader.[/QUOTE]
newsflash buddy. Ben has NEVER been a leader. if your front office thought thats what they were getting from him, then they are as stupid as the homer fans littering this thread. He quit on saunders during the post-season right before you gave him the contract. What in the world ever made you think hed be a leader on the team? He can be a lockerroom enforcer type, but he was never a leader

[QUOTE=boozehound]are you sure? Im getting[URL="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joakim_noah/index.html"]noah at +7.10[/URL] and [URL="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_wallace/"]wallace at +12.91[/URL] for the EFF stat.[/QUOTE]

Hmm... Don't see where you're getting that number. My common sense is telling me that Wallace hasn't been winning games this season.

My link is based on individual game +/- for this whole season. Maybe yours is a different timeframe?

[QUOTE=Patrick27]Hmm... Don't see where you're getting that number. My common sense is telling me that Wallace hasn't been winning games this season.

My link is based on individual game +/- for this whole season. Maybe yours is a different timeframe?[/QUOTE]
yeah, I dont really know. Its the eff stat from the nba players page (in the little stat box to the right of the picture). Supposed to be like PER maybe? I havent looked at the game +/-

the idea is ben wallace can lead by example like he did with the Pistons when he won a ring. blaming the young bulls and not ben wallace is like blaming soldiers on a battlefield who get ambushed and killed because their general led them there. ben wallace isn't doing anything but collecting checks. he is a multiple defensive player of the year award winner, all star, and world champion. he has a resume and accolades like nobody on the Bulls roster and like nobody in the NBA. by ben wallace, the veteran leader, giving 20% it naturally rubs off on the other players.

you haters can say what you want but the chicago papers have it right just like i do. big bum is a joke and the reason as to why this team is 2 games outside of a playoff spot instead of a top 4 seed. 90% of bull fans want ben wallace gone. there's a reason for that and i just told you what it is. bull fans like the other players on the roster because they are young and have shown progress unlike the old fart big bum.

[QUOTE=JPR]the idea is ben wallace can lead by example like he did with the Pistons when he won a ring. blaming the young bulls and not ben wallace is like blaming soldiers on a battlefield who get ambushed and killed because their general led them there. ben wallace isn't doing anything but collecting checks. he is a multiple defensive player of the year award winner, all star, and world champion. he has a resume and accolades like nobody on the Bulls roster and like nobody in the NBA. by ben wallace, the veteran leader, giving 20% it naturally rubs off on the other players.

you haters can say what you want but the chicago papers have it right just like i do. big bum is a joke and the reason as to why this team is 2 games outside of a playoff spot instead of a top 4 seed. 90% of bull fans want ben wallace gone. there's a reason for that and i just told you what it is. bull fans like the other players on the roster because they are young and have shown progress unlike the old fart big bum.[/QUOTE]

Are you hating on Shaq for killing the Heat too? He's old. Miami and Chicago are paying for prior results. Don't blame the players because they aged, blame your front office for expecting them to turn back the clock.

[SIZE="7"]15,500,000 4ppg 8rpg 33%FG 47%ft 34 minutes per game[/SIZE]

Can't be stressed enough, and Ben has been a diva since he got to Chicago. Just because he is a vet and the one initiating meetings to have Noah's suspension extended doesn't mean he can't be in the wrong. Admitting you gave up on your last coach while asking to have him fired, pushing to get other teammates disciplined, laughing and playing pattycakes on the bench while down 30 in a game you got 4/3 in, hardly a shining example of leadership.

[QUOTE=DatZNasty]Can't be stressed enough, and Ben has been a diva since he got to Chicago. Just because he is a vet and the one initiating meetings to have Noah's suspension extended doesn't mean he can't be in the wrong. Admitting you gave up on your last coach while asking to have him fired, pushing to get other teammates disciplined, laughing and playing pattycakes on the bench while down 30 in a game you got 4/3 in, hardly a shining example of leadership.[/QUOTE]

Nobody's arguing that he's a good leader. Noah and Wallace are both terrible leaders. Neither one should even pretend to be. The problem is, while Wallace can be successful as a non-leader, I don't think Noah will ever listen to anybody except himself.

Bulls signing Ben Wallace was one of the biggest mistakes in their franchise history.