Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Cleverness;13953171]True. The question has always been: is the cure worse than the disease?
Because we could save lives by doing lots of things every year, including shutting down the NBA and NFL seasons.. theoretically this would save lives, but is the cure worse than the disease? It's tough to measure[/QUOTE]
You really going to regurgitate Fox's talking point word for word unabashedly? Here's a game. Was that Trump's genius take or was it Fox's first? Is there even a difference at this point?
Imagine thinking the "cure is worse than the disease," ripped straight from a news corporation's teet, is proper policy during a global pandemic as opposed to the preferences of any virologist or epidemiologist........what does a scientist know anyway?
Just have the automatons work through the illness that surrounds them. The numbers clearly say they'll be just fine in the end.
Clever....................
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE]If truly "saving lives" is what we care about, hiding indoors is probably the opposite of what we should be doing. For people age 15-24, suicide is the second most common cause of death. Forcing young people with mental health issues and/or zero economic prospects to avoid human contact and hide indoors while society collapses around them will obviously result in an increase in suicide rates.[/QUOTE]
You know saving lives is to be talked about but not really done until now. I asked people here if they were more pro individual freedoms or public safety years ago and generally the answer was freedom....because it was about gun control.
The shooter in vegas shot hundreds of people in a matter of moments. How long did it take this virus to catch the orlando club shooters death toll from 5 minutes?
I was told in no uncertain terms that just because gun control would gradually get us to a place to save millions of lives(at a shooting death rate of 30K a year...forever...cutting it even in half would be millions eventually) society should go for freedom over safety because its nobody's job to protect others in the abstract over themselves specifically. And theres a case to be made both ways. I just find it odd how people both support individual freedom over increased safety....and shutting down society...because a disease that will kill less people even in a worst case than something as simple as bad eating habits.
If you could get sugar out of society im sure it saves more lives than sheltering in place but as you said that really isnt the goal.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;13953182]You know saving lives is to be talked about but not really done until now. I asked people here if they were more pro individual freedoms or public safety years ago and generally the answer was freedom....because it was about gun control.
The shooter in vegas shot hundreds of people in a matter of moments. How long did it take this virus to catch the orlando club shooters death toll from 5 minutes?
I was told in no uncertain terms that just because gun control would gradually get us to a place to save millions of lives(at a shooting death rate of 30K a year...forever...cutting it even in half would be millions eventually) society should go for freedom over safety because its nobody's job to protect others in the abstract over themselves specifically. And theres a case to be made both ways. I just find it odd how people both support individual freedom over increased safety....and shutting down society...because a disease that will kill less people even in a worst case than something as simple as bad eating habits.
If you could get sugar out of society im sure it saves more lives than sheltering in place but as you said that really isnt the goal.[/QUOTE]
100 kids on a playground. 1 of them is yours. 2 or 3 have to die to continue normalcy. You playing the game?
To your last thought, we both know every one of us is going to choose a long drawn out, almost "unnoticeable" death that takes 40 plus years to develop over an acute, more grisly, observable one. There should be no surprise there. The second one is much more fearsome/dramatic. The first, everyone can feign ignorance and claim surprise at the sudden loss.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Loco 50;13953183]100 kids on a playground. 1 of them is yours. 2 or 3 have to die to continue normalcy. You playing the game?
To your last thought, we both know every one of us is going to choose a long drawn out, almost "unnoticeable" death that takes 40 plus years to develop over an acute, more grisly, observable one. There should be no surprise there. The second one is much more fearsome/dramatic. The first, everyone can feign ignorance and claim surprise at the sudden loss.[/QUOTE]
Of course. But the same applies even with sudden death situations. Try passing a law requiring nascar style roll cages, helmets, and cross body 5 strap seatbelts. You would save hundreds of thousands from brutal deaths but it would annoy society too much to do it.
We just choose to join team safety on this one instead of team freedom even if the loss of life is similar.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Loco 50;13953180]You really going to regurgitate Fox's talking point word for word unabashedly? Here's a game. Was that Trump's genius take or was it Fox's first? Is there even a difference at this point?
Imagine thinking the "cure is worse than the disease," ripped straight from a news corporation's teet, is proper policy during a global pandemic as opposed to the preferences of any virologist or epidemiologist........what does a scientist know anyway?
Just have the automatons work through the illness that surrounds them. The numbers clearly say they'll be just fine in the end.
Clever....................[/QUOTE]
The podcast I listen to asked this question when the panic first began. It's an important question to ask whenever any major regulation is proposed. And you didn't even try to answer it, but that's cool.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;13953192]Of course. But the same applies even with sudden death situations. Try passing a law requiring nascar style roll cages, helmets, and cross body 5 strap seatbelts. You would save hundreds of thousands from brutal deaths but it would annoy society too much to do it.
We just choose to join team safety on this one instead of team freedom even if the loss of life is similar.[/QUOTE]
Yep. I've been saying it too. Pass a law that bans all gatherings of over 100 people during flu season, including NBA/NFL/MLB.. this would save a lot of lives.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Loco 50;13953180]You really going to regurgitate Fox's talking point word for word unabashedly? Here's a game. Was that Trump's genius take or was it Fox's first? Is there even a difference at this point?
Imagine thinking the "cure is worse than the disease," ripped straight from a news corporation's teet, is proper policy during a global pandemic as opposed to the preferences of any virologist or epidemiologist........what does a scientist know anyway?
Just have the automatons work through the illness that surrounds them. The numbers clearly say they'll be just fine in the end.
Clever....................[/QUOTE]
Nobody on ISH watched Fox dude. Stop it with the straw man.
[URL="https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/comment-page-23/#comments"]https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/comment-page-23/#comments[/URL]
Is a Stanford Med professor good enough for you?
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;13953192]Of course. But the same applies even with sudden death situations. Try passing a law requiring nascar style roll cages, helmets, and cross body 5 strap seatbelts. You would save hundreds of thousands from brutal deaths but it would annoy society too much to do it.
We just choose to join team safety on this one instead of team freedom even if the loss of life is similar.[/QUOTE]
Cars are already very safe with strict regulations, airbags and advanced warning nowadays. Whether that is joining team safety or freedom is our own subjective feeling.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=iamgine;13953459]Cars are already very safe with strict regulations, airbags and advanced warning nowadays. Whether that is joining team safety or freedom is our own subjective feeling.[/QUOTE]
and yet 3 million people are injured and 40,000 people die in car accidents every year in the USA.
At a certain point there's only so much you can do. There will always be casualties.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=iamgine;13953459]Cars are already very safe with strict regulations, airbags and advanced warning nowadays. Whether that is joining team safety or freedom is our own subjective feeling.[/QUOTE]
It's all about status quo. We rarely examine whether things are safe or not or if our freedom is under threat or not unless there is a change.
[QUOTE=tpols;13953478]and yet 3 million people are injured and 40,000 people die in car accidents every year in the USA.
At a certain point there's only so much you can do. There will always be casualties.[/QUOTE]
Maybe there's something they know that they aren't telling us that has them spooked about covid and they won't tell us! Boris was shrugging it off and then did a 180 into lockdowns!!! Why???? So we should panic even more!!!! We need martial law NOW!
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=tpols;13953478]and yet 3 million people are injured and 40,000 people die in car accidents every year in the USA.
[/QUOTE]
Even with that number some will say it's quite low and some will say it's a lot. There's no team safety.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=FKAri;13953487]
Maybe there's something they know that they aren't telling us that has them spooked about covid and they won't tell us! Boris was shrugging it off and then did a 180 into lockdowns!!! Why???? So we should panic even more!!!! We need martial law NOW![/QUOTE]
you would think this is like airborne HIV or polio or something...
if that was the case, id understand the reaction.
Re: A different perspective on covid
Agreed.
Weare run by idiots and the majority of the public is intolerant sheep that cannot think for themselves, moral superiors (I care! "Stay the fck home dummie!" Cause you got nothing better to do huh..) or fearmongers(on themselves)/scared
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Cleverness;13953418]The podcast I listen to asked this question when the panic first began. It's an important question to ask whenever any major regulation is proposed. And you didn't even try to answer it, but that's cool.[/QUOTE]
If only more people had been asking your question after 9/11... maybe we wouldnt have lost trillions of dollars and ended countless lives fighting pointless wars, or maybe we wouldnt have given away our constitutional right to privacy.
Re: A different perspective on covid
[QUOTE=Cleverness;13953418]The podcast I listen to asked this question when the panic first began. It's an important question to ask whenever any major regulation is proposed. And you didn't even try to answer it, but that's cool.[/QUOTE]
Interesting what questions are fair play and what aren't in your mind. I have questions about what has actually happened while you have questions about what could happen. Your mentality is pretty frivolous to me.
I'd like to know why Trump didn't jump on things early and contain/quarantine the sick people when he had clear models in China, South Korea and Italy to learn from?
I'd like to know why we didn't immediately test everyone that was in contact with those sick people?
I'd like to know whose dumbass idea it was that we wait until people become symptomatic to test them when pertinent info from China was already out there saying that there were many asymptomatic carriers?
I'd like to know why he didn't recognize the need for increased ppe for his healthcare providers when we saw what was happening in Italy and China?
I'd like to know why instead of relying on expert knowledge he keeps trying to base decisions on his own fears?
I'd like to know where he thinks we're supposed to treat the heart attack/stroke/appendicitis type acute cases when our hospitals are overwhelmed with sick people that can't breathe that were told to go back to work?
I'd like to know why he jumped the gun on telling the public about two medications that can cause heart block with unsupervised use before it's even proven that they work?
Many, many important questions...