Larry Bird discussion

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]

*That ofcourse if he plays in the Western Conference if he plays in the Actual Weaker East expect a rise for 8-10 Season on those Stats[/B][/QUOTE]

the western conference has been better, but i don't think the conference a player plays in affects their stats as much as the actual team they are on.
remember nba teams schedules are 71% the same as others (in terms of the amount of times they play teams and the where they play them because each team plays each other team at least twice- once at home, once on the road, so therefore 58 out of 82 games for all teams are the same- 71%).

if stats were affected my conference so much- why did KG, Ray Allens, and rashard lewis's numbers actually FALL when going to the east from the west- wheras al jefferson had an increase in scoring going from east to west?
thats cause it doesn't matter what conference you are in- it matters what team you are on regardless of conference as your opponents are 71% the same as any player in either conference.

but i digress... bird would be the best player in the game if he was healthy and at his peak. people say that unathletic BS when he played yet he still dominated, how would it be any different now? he is one of the smartest players ever to play the game adn he would dominate today and put up at LEAST the numbers he put up in his best years (26-30 ppg, 9-11 rpg, 6-8 apg with high percentages).

these forums have gotten extremely bad lately..

bird would excel and dominate in any era.... what some young folk don't understand about basketball is that you don't have to be athletic, have a high vert, or fast to dominant a game. Ask Tim Duncan.

Bird's sheer killer instinct, drive, focus, and love of the game was probably only matched by the GOAT himself, Jordan.

I hope some of the people that said Kobe would "own" Bird cause he played in a slow,weak era --- which is complete b.s. btw---- realize that in 2030 there will be some stud in the NBA named Rotouf Sizomep who averages 31-10-8 and kids who grew up in that generation will look back and say guys like kobe, jordan, shaq, etc. played in a weak era. Its a cycle and it will always continue.

[QUOTE=gabeh1018]these forums have gotten extremely bad lately..

bird would excel and dominate in any era.... what some young folk don't understand about basketball is that you don't have to be athletic, have a high vert, or fast to dominant a game. Ask Tim Duncan.

Bird's sheer killer instinct, drive, focus, and love of the game was probably only matched by the GOAT himself, Jordan.

I hope some of the people that said Kobe would "own" Bird cause he played in a slow,weak era --- which is complete b.s. btw---- realize that in 2030 there will be some stud in the NBA named [B]Rotouf Sizomep[/B] who averages 31-10-8 and kids who grew up in that generation will look back and say guys like kobe, jordan, shaq, etc. played in a weak era. Its a cycle and it will always continue.[/QUOTE]


rotouf sizomep is money.

[QUOTE=stephanieg]You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Anatomically modern day humans have been on this planet for approximately 200,000 years. About 50,000 years ago they became behaviorally modern (see "the great leap forward"). Ever since then humans have been constantly changing their environment to suit their needs. The human body has also changed in response to agriculture, modern day food processing, pollution, and other aspects of modern day living which didn't exist on the African savanna.

Basketball was invented a little over a century ago. Ever since then the human genome has been constantly at work producing generation after generation of new NBA stars. It's how evolution works. Fans want good players. Mother nature responds by making basketball players of increasing quality or "fitness."

You think Bird is a good player because he looks great competing against equally bad players by today's standards. It'd be like if you played against fifth graders. Sure, you look good, but only by comparison. If Bird played today he would be extremely limited given his stiffness, immobility, non-European whiteness, and slow decision making skills compared to modern day blurs like Troy Murphy or Tim Duncan.

You have to understand that if Hedo Turkoglu was sent back in a time machine he would dominate the NBA that Bird and his contemporaries played in. But nowadays he's just an OK player. Things move so fast.

But we shouldn't look back on past weaker eras arrogantly. Bird retired only a generation ago. In another generation players will be dunking from the three point line and looking back at our era with equal derision.[/QUOTE]


Are you serious? Evolution does not happen that fast!
Decision making has gone downhill; Bird would easily be in the top 5.

[QUOTE=GOBB]Bird today

NBA comparison: Mike Dunleavy Jr[/QUOTE]

Are you suggesting that Bird would be on the level of Mike Dunleavy Jr. (assuming he was in the league right now)?


As for my opinion, prime Bird would be the best player in the league right now.

1. Bird
2. Lebron
3. Kobe

[QUOTE=abuC]Sir Charles is a horrible poster, jesus why isnt he banned?

Why do people say Bird wasnt athletic though, the guy had PF size but played SF, that alone should tell you he was athletic. He wasnt athletic by elite guard standards, but how many 6"10 guys are?[/QUOTE]

[B]Do I qualify your posts and ask for bans when I don`t agree with you? Dam you seem like the cry baby semi stars of today that hardly get hit and to crying to the refs asking for fouls :rolleyes:

Bird had below average speed, leap, potence and was not the strongest of 6`9ers but then again he was the "Most Skilled Player" in the NBA til 1986, "The Clutches"t and the "Smartest by a Miles". No other Player dominated the "Boxing Out Skill" Better than Bird for Rebounds (helped alot with a great desire), his Shooting is Legendary (and its not all Percentages because Bird used to like to play with the crowd have fun and shoot in some difficult shots to challange himself and he many times was guarded the tightest any player was guarded outside the paint), his "Eye & Body Coordinatin" and "Domination of Both Hands" is the Greatest of All Time (its funny when an unathletic guy has that much coordination, very rare to find = genious like) and ofcoruse his "Passing Abilities", "Strength of Rists" and "PG Guard like Vision" was out this earth.

Bird Would Dominate in Every Era and These Where his Unathletic, Weak and Bad Forward Competitions whom many Times Guarded Him:[/B]

[B][U]Old Larry v.s Slow Unskilled Pathetic [COLOR="Orange"]James Worthy[/COLOR][/U][/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=worthja01&p2=birdla01[/url]

[B]22.5 PPG (46.7% FG), 9.3 RPG; 6.5 APG, 1.8 SPG and (54.5% 3-Point FG)

[U]Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Defensive/Rebounding Machine [COLOR="Blue"]Dennis Rodman[/COLOR][/U]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=rodmade01[/url]

24.7 PPG (48.7% FG), 8 RPG; 6.9 APG, 1 SPG, 1 BPG and (48.7% 3-Point FG)

[U]Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic and Pathetic Defender [COLOR="Red"]Scottie Pippen[/COLOR][/U]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=pippesc01[/url]

25.9 PPG (50.3% FG), 8.3 RPG; 6.1 APG, 1 BPG (45% 3-Point FG)

[U]Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic [COLOR="DarkRed"]Dominique Wilkins[/COLOR][/U]

22.4 PPG (50.4% FG), 8 RPG; 6.4 APG, 1.6 SPG

[U]Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic [COLOR="Green"]Shawn Kemp[/COLOR][/U]

20.6 PPG (54.5% FG), 10 RPG; 6 APG, 1.6 SPG [/B]

[B][SIZE="4"]Larry Bird definetly played against Weak, Unathletic and Bad NBA Forwards[/SIZE][/B]

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:sleeping

It seems like 75% of this thread is either sarcasm, or serious responses to sarcasm, or sarcastic responses to serious responses to sarcasm. It's a mess.

The inevitable comparisons between a prime Bird and Lebron would be really fun. Mostly because they'd be putting up very similar numbers, with Bird drawing a few more rebounds. But I really think the variety of ways in which Bird can score is what made him devastating, and it wouldn't change at the moment. It's also why he's considered so clutch, because he's almost impossible to gameplan for because he's got too many weapons to beat you with.
In fact, in the current environment, things would almost work more to his favor. He's really tough to zone against, yet his defensive shortcomings (which are really overstated) could be hidden some. As the league has shrunk, he's probably a better rebounder now than he was then (even at the faster pace back then, he was a 10 board a night guy next to two HOF frontliners). His post game would be among the top five in the league at the moment, and with more mismatched inside out games being played against the more side limited defenses, that would be really exploitable. Even the more limited physicallity would mean his first step would be better because guys would have to get so close to him to defend his jumper. And the increase in those touch fouls called would benefit him since he's gonna shoot 90% from the stripe.

He's not thought about for it because he's generally not considered an end to end player (another overstatement), but he would have been a monster in the wide open Suns system from the past few years. Spreading the floor with his jumper. Outrebounding the SF position like crazy, or isoing against PFs. The floor spaced and cutters flying through where his vision would shine. His decision making on the fly. And it's not like he'd be opposed to a scheme asking to pump up a shot every 6-10 seconds. Even the defensive philosophy asking to jump passing lanes play into his strengths.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Do I qualify your posts and ask for bans when I don`t agree with you? Dam you seem like the cry baby semi stars of today that hardly get hit and to crying to the refs asking for fouls :rolleyes:

Bird had below average speed, leap, potence and was not the strongest of 6`9ers but then again he was the "Most Skilled Player" in the NBA til 1986, "The Clutches"t and the "Smartest by a Miles". No other Player dominated the "Boxing Out Skill" Better than Bird for Rebounds (helped alot with a great desire), his Shooting is Legendary (and its not all Percentages because Bird used to like to play with the crowd have fun and shoot in some difficult shots to challange himself and he many times was guarded the tightest any player was guarded outside the paint), his "Eye & Body Coordinatin" and "Domination of Both Hands" is the Greatest of All Time (its funny when an unathletic guy has that much coordination, very rare to find = genious like) and ofcoruse his "Passing Abilities", "Strength of Rists" and "PG Guard like Vision" was out this earth.

Bird Would Dominate in Every Era and These Where his Unathletic, Weak and Bad Forward Competitions whom many Times Guarded Him:[/B]

[B][U]Old Larry v.s Slow Unskilled Pathetic [COLOR="Orange"]James Worthy[/COLOR][/U][/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=worthja01&p2=birdla01[/url]

[B]22.5 PPG (46.7% FG), 9.3 RPG; 6.5 APG, 1.8 SPG and (54.5% 3-Point FG)

[U]Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Defensive/Rebounding Machine [COLOR="Blue"]Dennis Rodman[/COLOR][/U]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=rodmade01[/url]

24.7 PPG (48.7% FG), 8 RPG; 6.9 APG, 1 SPG, 1 BPG and (48.7% 3-Point FG)

[U]Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic and Pathetic Defender [COLOR="Red"]Scottie Pippen[/COLOR][/U]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=pippesc01[/url]

25.9 PPG (50.3% FG), 8.3 RPG; 6.1 APG, 1 BPG (45% 3-Point FG)

[U]Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic [COLOR="DarkRed"]Dominique Wilkins[/COLOR][/U]

22.4 PPG (50.4% FG), 8 RPG; 6.4 APG, 1.6 SPG

[U]Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic [COLOR="Green"]Shawn Kemp[/COLOR][/U]

20.6 PPG (54.5% FG), 10 RPG; 6 APG, 1.6 SPG [/B]

[B][SIZE="4"]Larry Bird definetly played against Weak, Unathletic and Bad NBA Forwards[/SIZE][/B]

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:sleeping[/QUOTE]


There's no chance Im reading this.

Bird's era was nothing like the era of today.

People seriously need to realize this.

There are literally millions more kids who grew up playing basketball since the MJ era, both in this country and abroad. The game is so much more competitive, and the play itself is evolved as well.

Now if Bird were growing up today playing the modern game, would he be great? Who knows. But believe me, if you put the Bird who played ball in the 80's in the current game, GOBB is right, he'd be about Mike Dunleavy Jr. but would look even a lot more awkward with the stiff, hunched over dribbling and jerky movements.

Bird was more athletic than some of you think. Watch his top ten playoff moments, hes divin for loose balls, fillin the lane on the break and puttin in reverse layups, etc.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_nfsq4pTpI&feature=related[/url]

[QUOTE=starface]Bird's era was nothing like the era of today.

People seriously need to realize this.

There are literally millions more kids who grew up playing basketball since the MJ era, both in this country and abroad. The game is so much more competitive, and the play itself is evolved as well.

Now if Bird were growing up today playing the modern game, would he be great? Who knows. But believe me, if you put the Bird who played ball in the 80's in the current game, GOBB is right, he'd be about Mike Dunleavy Jr. but would look even a lot more awkward with the stiff, hunched over dribbling and jerky movements.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

You're off your rocker. [b]That[/b] Larry Bird -- the same one we're seeing in videos from old games -- can come in today and dominate. Never mind if he "came up today" with all of today's benefits and a more modern handle. THAT Bird would be the #1 player today. Whatever else you want to assume he'd have if he came up today is just extra. You know nothing about the game if you can watch prime Bird play and not realize that he'd kill in any era.

[QUOTE=starface]Bird's era was nothing like the era of today.

People seriously need to realize this.

There are literally millions more kids who grew up playing basketball since the MJ era, both in this country and abroad. The game is so much more competitive, and the play itself is evolved as well.

Now if Bird were growing up today playing the modern game, would he be great? Who knows. But believe me, if you put the Bird who played ball in the 80's in the current game, GOBB is right, he'd be about Mike Dunleavy Jr. but would look even a lot more awkward with the stiff, hunched over dribbling and jerky movements.[/QUOTE]

I used to believe this theory too, but from talking with other people, I think that this would really only apply to before the 80s for the NBA, and before the 70s as a whole. The reason being is cause that was the baby boomer. Maybe for the population of kids growing up after the Jordan era, there was a greater percentage of that population playing basketball, but with the baby boomer generation, there population was larger. I think it evens out that way. Kareem, Dr. J, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Barkley, Hakeem were all part of the baby boomer generation. Either way, I doubt Bird would be Dunleavy Jr. If he was able to dominate games with the SFs of the 80s guarding him, I highly doubt it would be that different today. Maybe he wouldn't be as good, but I think to say he would be Dunleavy Jr. is really underrating his era/overrating this era.

Dirk can lead a team to 67 wins win MVP yet Bird who was more skilled and more athletic wouldn't thrive?:roll:

[QUOTE=starface]Bird's era was nothing like the era of today.

People seriously need to realize this.

There are literally millions more kids who grew up playing basketball since the MJ era, both in this country and abroad. The game is so much more competitive, and the play itself is evolved as well.

[B]The Game Might Be More Competitive but does that Mean The Quality of COmpetition is Good? :no:

Back in the 80s till about 92 Very Few AMERICANS or NON AMERICANS MADE IT TO THE NBA. The league was not watered down as it was in the mid 90s-2000s. ONLY THE BEST OF THE BEST...MADE IT TO THE NBA...NOT JUST HIGH LEAPING ATHLETIC THUGS THAT CAN DUNK COOL and have ZERO FUNDAMENTALS...which there has been an Increase off since the Mid 90s till today[/B]

Now if Bird were growing up today playing the modern game, would he be great? Who knows. But believe me, if you put the Bird who played ball in the 80's in the current game, GOBB is right, he'd be about Mike Dunleavy Jr. but would look even a lot more awkward with the stiff, hunched over dribbling and jerky movements.

[B]1st of All....Get Your Facts Straight:

Bird can Shoot Better than Any SF today
Bird can Pass Better than Any SF today
Bird can Rebound Better than Any SF today
Bird has a Higher FT than Any SF of today
Mird has More Fundamentals than any Player Today
Bird has More Clutch play than any Player Ever
Bird has More Court Awareness tha any Player Ever or Era Ever
Bird has more Eye and Hands (both left and right) Coordination than Any Player Ever or Era Ever
Bird has more Witts than Any Player Today
Bird has more Heart than Any Player Today

Finally, Bird played when there where more Players with Talent, Sklill, Fundamentals, B-Ball IQ and when:

Handcheckign Was Allowed, Physical Play Was Allowed, No Rules that Favored Shooters where in place (like the Handchecking) and with the Zone Defense Bird implanted Bird would make the 1st All Defensive Team Every Year because he was the Best Off Man Defender SF Ever.

Not to mention: In a Slow Paced Game = Everyone in The League Would be Falling in to the BIRD TRAP = that was his game, his style...!!!

Magic prooved this in 1996 as a 36 year old man that had not been playing Pro for 5 years (and came as PF not eve as PG, that is playing a different position) The Level of the League had gone done.

And the Level of the League has gone Down Even more the Last 10 Years.

A 1981 to 1986 Bird (ages 25-30) would not just be The Best SF but he would

DESTROY TODAY`S LEAGUE

With todays weight training and vitamin complementation he would be a 240 lbs SF that can Shoot like the Best Ever SFs, Rebound like the Best PFs and Pass like the Best PGs. If he gets fouled he shoots at 90% FT

Bird Would Own The League[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][QUOTE=starface]Bird's era was nothing like the era of today.

People seriously need to realize this.

There are literally millions more kids who grew up playing basketball since the MJ era, both in this country and abroad. The game is so much more competitive, and the play itself is evolved as well.

[B]The Game Might Be More Competitive but does that Mean The Quality of COmpetition is Good? :no:

Back in the 80s till about 92 Very Few AMERICANS or NON AMERICANS MADE IT TO THE NBA. The league was not watered down as it was in the mid 90s-2000s. ONLY THE BEST OF THE BEST...MADE IT TO THE NBA...NOT JUST HIGH LEAPING ATHLETIC THUGS THAT CAN DUNK COOL and have ZERO FUNDAMENTALS...which there has been an Increase off since the Mid 90s till today[/B]

Now if Bird were growing up today playing the modern game, would he be great? Who knows. But believe me, if you put the Bird who played ball in the 80's in the current game, GOBB is right, he'd be about Mike Dunleavy Jr. but would look even a lot more awkward with the stiff, hunched over dribbling and jerky movements.

[B]1st of All....Get Your Facts Straight:

Bird can Shoot Better than Any SF today
Bird can Pass Better than Any SF today
Bird can Rebound Better than Any SF today
Bird has a Higher FT than Any SF of today
Mird has More Fundamentals than any Player Today
Bird has More Clutch play than any Player Ever
Bird has More Court Awareness tha any Player Ever or Era Ever
Bird has more Eye and Hands (both left and right) Coordination than Any Player Ever or Era Ever
Bird has more Witts than Any Player Today
Bird has more Heart than Any Player Today

Finally, Bird played when there where more Players with Talent, Sklill, Fundamentals, B-Ball IQ and when:

Handcheckign Was Allowed, Physical Play Was Allowed, No Rules that Favored Shooters where in place (like the Handchecking) and with the Zone Defense Bird implanted Bird would make the 1st All Defensive Team Every Year because he was the Best Off Man Defender SF Ever.

Not to mention: In a Slow Paced Game = Everyone in The League Would be Falling in to the BIRD TRAP = that was his game, his style...!!!

Magic prooved this in 1996 as a 36 year old man that had not been playing Pro for 5 years (and came as PF not eve as PG, that is playing a different position) The Level of the League had gone done.

And the Level of the League has gone Down Even more the Last 10 Years.

A 1981 to 1986 Bird (ages 25-30) would not just be The Best SF but he would

DESTROY TODAY`S LEAGUE

With todays weight training and vitamin complementation would be a 240-245 lbs SF that can Shoot like the Best Ever SFs, Rebound like the Best PFs and Pass like the Best PGs. If he gets fouled he shoots at 90% FT

Bird Would Own The League[/B][/QUOTE]

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