What is talent? (Vince Carter related)

nice thread great comments... this is ISH right?

to me talent is something that is fluid, liquid constantly changing depending on it's owner's use of it..

as an example kobe has talent, he had it from the day he picked up a basketball most likely, but he also groomed that talent, refined reshapped it as his body grew and continues to do so even today, his game is ever evolving to make the greatest use of his athletic and learned basketball skills... talent is a combination of things, natural, learned and critiqued, but to me it is not anyone thing, it is the combination of things the end product but an end product that will be different under different situations/inputs.. i don't think we can define talent in any one way..

as mentioned before Bird had talent so did Magic... two totally different games two totally different players with different skills but both with incredible talent

[QUOTE=elementally morale]Are you sure that things like mentality and athletic ability cannot be worked on, especially when one is younger, brah? Is the ABILITY to work on 'raw talent' considered TALENT itself?

Fill me in, brah.[/QUOTE]
ay ya dont get it but its okay brah. imma explain it to ya.

Everybody got raw talent for everything brah, just not in the same amount. Even da worst singer has talent to sing, just not as much as mariah carey.

[QUOTE=globarticles]ay ya dont get it but its okay brah. imma explain it to ya.

Everybody got raw talent for everything brah, just not in the same amount. Even da worst singer has talent to sing, just not as much as mariah carey.[/QUOTE]

Thx, brah. I always knew I had talent in figure skating, even though I really su(k at it. But it's nice of you to confirm I have talent. Not as much as the average person on Earth, but it still is TALENT. I knew this, I knew this. I'm so relieved now. Thx, brah.

:banana:

[QUOTE=Solid Snake]1) There's no such thing as destiny. That's gets into the realm of fate, which is dangerously close to the man-made concept of the ill-fated idea of religion. [B]There is no god[/B].[/QUOTE]


Well, prove it.

Not here, but I can make you a thread where you can show me proof there is no god. You will have a tough time, because I will show you in 5 easy steps that believing there is no god is just another belief and in fact believing in man-made science is just another belief (even though it is a different approach).

I'm a scientist by training, but I can debate that god-thingy with you. I also have no god.... errr... dog in this fight, but to make a bold statement like you just did is a bit premature as far as our knowledge as humans is concerned.

elementally morale is the most talented poster on ISH's NBA forum :D

[QUOTE]Insinuating that the act ifself of choosing that craft was a talent[/QUOTE]


What makes it insinuation?

It is decision making. You need a level-head as well as some intuition to make it work. You have to take an in-depth look at the details but you cannot lose sight of the big picture. Decision making is not easy, especially if there is more than one thing to choose from. :oldlol:

GMs had better be talented at decision-making, right? Coaches had better be talented at running a team, right? Choosing which player to play when, which play to run when... deciding all that is some kind of talent.

When deciding the same things about yourself (i.e.: decision-making) why cannot that be called talent?

great thread e m . . . . i hope you're not done with it as
i'd greatly appreciate your response to the following:

what is talent? . . . . is it the same as athletic ability?

athleticism to me is running , jumping and throwing

everybody can run , but everybody can't run "fast"
everybody can jump , but everybody can't jump "high"
everybody can throw , but everybody can't throw "far"

what makes usain bolt faster than everyone else
what made jordan jump higher than everyone else
what made elway throw farther than everyone else

is the difference talent level? . . . what about

run fast and change directions
jump high and hang in the air
throw far and hit a target

many claim that usain's the world's greatest athlete
. . . . . . . . no doubt he's insanely talented

but what if he had to run while dribbling a ball thru traffic
what if he then had to throw the ball and hit a moving target
and to finish the event , he then had to vault over a 10 foot pole

i know , , they're not answers
just questions and things that came to mind

for reasons that i'll elaborate upon your response , my initial
answer to the question "what is talent" . . . . i say it's

.

.

.

Hidden

Rasheed Wallace = most talented basketball player ever

[QUOTE=IInvented]Rasheed Wallace = most talented basketball player ever[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your contribution.

cool enough e m

i'd still like to elaborate on this topic especially after last nite when
my son (soph) played his 1st varsity game , his 1st game ever
running the point and played extremely well . . . to the point
i feel a lil prophetic because he did things i'd never seen
him do before , , , obviously he's been hiding talent

funnily
as he was leaving for school this morning he received a text from
state champ , crosstown rival and the soon-to-be LA City POY
Dwayne Polee Jr telling him . . ."you're losing your next game"

kid is like my nephew . . . i played against his dad and his uncle
graduated from my alma mater a year ahead of me . . . now
if y'all wanna see talent youtube the name D P Jr and look
for the hilite reel "mattsballislife" or som'n like that
kid is rediculous , , , , , has stupid hops

anyway , the reason i say talent is hidden is because while you
may be looking at the end result where it's on full nba display
somebody or some thing (beit coaching or competition)
had to bring it to the surface . . . well i coach at the
level where that talent gets brought to the surface

high schools , colleges and pros simply reap the benefits

a guy that can run fast (talent) can run even faster if taught
the proper technique (skill) . . . . a guy with bounce could
jump a lot higher and longer if given the proper training

perfect example in closing , anyone with ath.ability can do it
i know because i taught it to my son and he's no leaper
by any stretch . . . . i'ma tell you a simple way to
jump , adjust your body , and hang in the air
in other words , i'ma show you a way to fly

.

dribble from the wing into a reverse layup

do it again , but this time when you plant your foot to leap
STOP and HOLD that pose . . . your jump foot should be
planted and ready to explode up and your raised knee
should be flexed just a bit above your waist . . . .

now start over , only this time when you plant your foot and
explode off the ground . . . as you approach your apex
bring the opposite knee to the same level as your
raised knee (like a seated position) and force
yourself to glide from one side to the other

man , i kid you not , i taught my son this a couple of years ago
he's been killing folks with not only the hanging reverse layups
but the jump , absorb contact and finish front side as well

with polee jr on the schedule twice this year , he's definitely
going to need it cause he know dwayne will text message
that crap into the seats and tell him about it afterwards

.
.

i know how folks are today so i've contemplated bringing my son
to the board for a long time now for fear of bragging or jinxing
i'd always said once someone other than myself mention his
name i'd do it , but even then i neglected to do so . . . .

but after last nite i just said fug it . . if you guys are interested
i'd gladly share with you his progression thru high school
that you can follow him and polee at maxpreps.com

Nice thread, elementallymorale.

I think there is so much more to talent than natural athletic ability. People can't convince me that Josh Smith is more talented than Larry Bird. Yeah, jumping is a cool talent, but what about hand-eye coordination, timing, court awareness, etc.?

Just look at pure shooters. Some guys practice for hours on end and can't make a jumpshot to save their lives. Other guys haven't shot in years and they can shoot better than 90% of basketball players. I don't know how to qualify that talent, but there is definitely some type of talent there.

[QUOTE=aau]cool enough e m

i'd still like to elaborate on this topic especially after last nite when
my son (soph) played his 1st varsity game , his 1st game ever
running the point and played extremely well . . . to the point
i feel a lil prophetic because he did things i'd never seen
him do before , , , obviously he's been hiding talent

funnily
as he was leaving for school this morning he received a text from
state champ , crosstown rival and the soon-to-be LA City POY
Dwayne Polee Jr telling him . . ."you're losing your next game"

kid is like my nephew . . . i played against his dad and his uncle
graduated from my alma mater a year ahead of me . . . now
if y'all wanna see talent youtube the name D P Jr and look
for the hilite reel "mattsballislife" or som'n like that
kid is rediculous , , , , , has stupid hops

anyway , the reason i say talent is hidden is because while you
may be looking at the end result where it's on full nba display
somebody or some thing (beit coaching or competition)
had to bring it to the surface . . . well i coach at the
level where that talent gets brought to the surface

high schools , colleges and pros simply reap the benefits

a guy that can run fast (talent) can run even faster if taught
the proper technique (skill) . . . . a guy with bounce could
jump a lot higher and longer if given the proper training

perfect example in closing , anyone with ath.ability can do it
i know because i taught it to my son and he's no leaper
by any stretch . . . . i'ma tell you a simple way to
jump , adjust your body , and hang in the air
in other words , i'ma show you a way to fly

.

dribble from the wing into a reverse layup

do it again , but this time when you plant your foot to leap
STOP and HOLD that pose . . . your jump foot should be
planted and ready to explode up and your raised knee
should be flexed just a bit above your waist . . . .

now start over , only this time when you plant your foot and
explode off the ground . . . as you approach your apex
bring the opposite knee to the same level as your
raised knee (like a seated position) and force
yourself to glide from one side to the other

man , i kid you not , i taught my son this a couple of years ago
he's been killing folks with not only the hanging reverse layups
but the jump , absorb contact and finish front side as well

with polee jr on the schedule twice this year , he's definitely
going to need it cause he know dwayne will text message
that crap into the seats and tell him about it afterwards

.
.

i know how folks are today so i've contemplated bringing my son
to the board for a long time now for fear of bragging or jinxing
i'd always said once someone other than myself mention his
name i'd do it , but even then i neglected to do so . . . .

but after last nite i just said fug it . . if you guys are interested
i'd gladly share with you his progression thru high school
that you can follow him and polee at maxpreps.com[/QUOTE]


Nice post. I felt it was very helpful and I wanted to ask your advice on like footwork and such. I would consider myself quite an athletic player (not in a cocky way) but in game situations I fail to use it. I find myself playing way below the rim and not finishing consistently. I am 5-10 i dont know my vert but I got my first dunk like a week ago. Have any tip on using my athleticism in games? Thanks.

bump
just because i still find this topic interesting

One more bump. I'm curious what you guys think about it now.

One more bump. I'd like to know what you guys think of this now.

This is interesting i guess its just the natural ability i don't think athleticism and skills have anything related to talent. If you take a bunch a kids that don't how to play basketball there is going to be some players that stand out these players have natural basketball instincts court vision, first step, good footwork things that can not be taught. Why is lebron james so much better than josh smith theres no clear advantage lebrons more of a basketball player. Two other things that i think are related to talent are natural finishing ability just having a good touch around the net and ball handling i know you can work but theres players that look so much better at handling the ball there just smooth.