Shaquille Oneal
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Shaquille Oneal
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]The #7 spot is probally the toughest spot in the top 10 IMO
Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, and Duncan all can go there[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with anyone taking Shaq over Hakeem or the other way around, personally I have them both at same place. But I really don't think Duncan was better than any of those 2 players and Duncan should be happy he didn't enter the league in the late 80's or early 90's. Having to battle prime Malone, prime Barkley, prime Hakeem, prime Robinson, prime Ewing and young and beasty Shaq would probably hurt his legacy big time and good luck getting MVP's against Jordan.
[IMG]http://p.twimg.com/AY2FCzKCEAEddM8.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]I agree with all that you said
but Shaq offensively is too much to ignore, and you can also say that Hakeem never got to play with Kobe so its close[/QUOTE]
He got to play with Clyde in his 2nd championship in '95, but he is no Kobe.
Hakeem and Shaq are a lot closer offensively than you would think. Hakeem was clearly more versatile and could space the floor better. They were also pretty close as far as scoring efficiency goes.
I have no idea what years people believe Hakeem's prime was but I do know that his peak years were '93-'95
Hakeem's '93-'94 RS shooting efficiency: 27.3 ppg with 52.8% FG and 56.5% TS
Hakeem's '93-'94 PS shooting efficiency: 28.9 ppg with 51.9% FG and 56.8% TS
Keep in mind that in '94-'95 Hakeem was injured which was one of the reasons why the Rockets faltered to the 6th seed and traded for Clyde Drexler
Hakeem's '94-'95 RS shooting efficiency: 27.8 ppg with 51.7% FG and 56.3% TS
Hakeems' '94-'95 PS shooting efficiency: 33.0 ppg with 53.1% FG and 56.0% TS
Shaq's two clear peak season were '99-'00 and '00-'01
Shaq's '99-'00 RS shooting efficiency: 29.7 ppg with 57.4% FG and 57.8% TS
Shaq's '99-'00 PS shooting efficiency: 30.7 ppg with 56.6% FG and 55.6% TS
Shaq's '00-'01 RS shooting efficiency: 28.7 ppg with 57.2% FG and 57.4% TS
Shaq's '00-'01 PS shooting efficiency: 30.4 ppg with 55.5% FG and 56.4% TS
Hakeem and Shaq in their peaks actually generated very close and similar TS% which determines their scoring efficiency. Sorry, but we have to include their FT shooting ability. Shaq clearly has the edge in FG% and a lot of that has to do with Shaq playing much closer to the paint than Hakeem, but they are equally efficient at scoring.
People say that '99-'00 was Shaq's best season because that was the season where he put the most work and effort in defensively. Shaq was pretty much the same offensively for most of his career.
[QUOTE=NugzHeat3]Look at the way he worded it.
Implying that its inexplicable for Shaq to be in consideration.
You tell me whats wrong.[/QUOTE]
I can tell you. There are 3-4 guys on the candidate list that belong ahead of Shaq.
Duncan, Robertson and Bryant are easily ahead. You can debate Hakeem and West.
That's what makes it so absurd that Shaq is in consideration.
[QUOTE=millwad]I have no problem with anyone taking Shaq over Hakeem or the other way around, personally I have them both at same place. But I really don't think Duncan was better than any of those 2 players and Duncan should be happy he didn't enter the league in the late 80's or early 90's. Having to battle prime Malone, prime Barkley, prime Hakeem, prime Robinson, prime Ewing and young and beasty Shaq would probably hurt his legacy big time and good luck getting MVP's against Jordan.
[IMG]http://p.twimg.com/AY2FCzKCEAEddM8.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Where's Shaq's taco bell?
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Where's Shaq's taco bell?[/QUOTE]
It's Shaq, he obviously already ate 5 of them :lol
[QUOTE=Inception28]He got to play with Clyde in his 2nd championship in '95, but he is no Kobe.
Hakeem and Shaq are a lot closer offensively than you would think. Hakeem was clearly more versatile and could space the floor better. They were also pretty close as far as scoring efficiency goes.
I have no idea what years people believe Hakeem's prime was but I do know that his peak years were '93-'95
Hakeem's '93-'94 RS shooting efficiency: 52.8% FG and 56.5% TS
Hakeem's '93-'94 PS shooting efficiency: 51.9% FG and 56.8% TS
Keep in mind that in '94-'95 Hakeem was injured which was one of the reasons why the Rockets faltered to the 6th seed and traded for Clyde Drexler
Hakeem's '94-'95 RS shooting efficiency: 51.7% FG and 56.3% TS
Hakeems' '94-'95 PS shooting efficiency: 53.1% FG and 56.0% TS
Shaq's two clear peak season were '99-'00 and '00-'01
Shaq's '99-'00 RS shooting efficiency: 57.4% FG and 57.8% TS
Shaq's '99-'00 PS shooting efficiency: 56.6% FG and 55.6% TS
Shaq's '00-'01 RS shooting efficiency: 57.2% FG and 57.4% TS
Shaq's '00-'01 PS shooting efficiency: 55.5% FG and 56.4% TS
Hakeem and Shaq in their peaks actually generated very close and similar TS% which determines their scoring efficiency. Sorry, but we have to include their FT shooting ability. Shaq clearly has the edge in FG% and a lot of that has to do with Shaq playing much closer to the paint than Hakeem, but they are equally efficient at scoring.
People say that '99-'00 was Shaq's best season because that was the season where he put the most work and effort in defensively. Shaq was pretty much the same offensively for most of his career.[/QUOTE]
I do think that Shaq was the better offensive player, though Dream's advantage defensively was bigger than Shaq's advantage offensively.
However, I'll definitely disagree that Shaq was pretty much the same offensively for most of his career. As a scorer, he was pretty much as good as he would become by '98, maybe slightly improvements after, but not much. He was already an above average passer by '95, but improved a lot once Phil coached him.
[QUOTE=Inception28]He got to play with Clyde in his 2nd championship in '95, but he is no Kobe.
Hakeem and Shaq are a lot closer offensively than you would think. Hakeem was clearly more versatile and could space the floor better. They were also pretty close as far as scoring efficiency goes.
I have no idea what years people believe Hakeem's prime was but I do know that his peak years were '93-'95
Hakeem's '93-'94 RS shooting efficiency: 27.3 ppg with 52.8% FG and 56.5% TS
Hakeem's '93-'94 PS shooting efficiency: 28.9 ppg with 51.9% FG and 56.8% TS
Keep in mind that in '94-'95 Hakeem was injured which was one of the reasons why the Rockets faltered to the 6th seed and traded for Clyde Drexler
Hakeem's '94-'95 RS shooting efficiency: 27.8 ppg with 51.7% FG and 56.3% TS
Hakeems' '94-'95 PS shooting efficiency: 33.0 ppg with 53.1% FG and 56.0% TS
Shaq's two clear peak season were '99-'00 and '00-'01
Shaq's '99-'00 RS shooting efficiency: 29.7 ppg with 57.4% FG and 57.8% TS
Shaq's '99-'00 PS shooting efficiency: 30.7 ppg with 56.6% FG and 55.6% TS
Shaq's '00-'01 RS shooting efficiency: 28.7 ppg with 57.2% FG and 57.4% TS
Shaq's '00-'01 PS shooting efficiency: 30.4 ppg with 55.5% FG and 56.4% TS
Hakeem and Shaq in their peaks actually generated very close and similar TS% which determines their scoring efficiency. Sorry, but we have to include their FT shooting ability. Shaq clearly has the edge in FG% and a lot of that has to do with Shaq playing much closer to the paint than Hakeem, but they are equally efficient at scoring.
People say that '99-'00 was Shaq's best season because that was the season where he put the most work and effort in defensively. Shaq was pretty much the same offensively for most of his career.[/QUOTE]
So Kobe was just as efficiency as both of them for 2 of his championships?
2009 PO - .564 TS%
2010 PO - .567 TS%
and for a Finals apperance,
Kobe's 2008 PO - .577 TS% compared to Shaq's 1995 PO - .575 TS% compared to Hakeem's 1986 PO - .566 TS%
If your going by true shooting %
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]So Kobe was just as efficiency as both of them for 2 of his championships?
2009 PO - .564 TS%
2010 PO - .567 TS%
If your going by true shooting %[/QUOTE]
Yes. TS% determines your scoring efficiency, eFG% determines your shooting efficiency, and FG% probably determines your shot selection. Sometimes it is better to have a miss shot so one of your teammates can get the rebound and maybe get a better shot selection. That is just me though.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]So Kobe was just as efficiency as both of them for 2 of his championships?
2009 PO - .564 TS%
2010 PO - .567 TS%
and for a Finals apperance, Kobe's 2008 PO - .577 TS% compared to Shaq's 1995 PO - .575 TS%
If your going by true shooting %[/QUOTE]
OP did you just start this project to try and prop Kobe up? :facepalm
I don't trust to TS%. I calculate player's efficiency like that;
Shaq tried 1228 2-pointers, 1 3-pointer and 717 free throws in 2001-02 regular season. He scored 1822 points in total. 1822 / ( (1228*2) + (1*3) +717 ) = 0.574.
By using that formula;
Shaq's efficiency were 0.564(rs) - 0.547(po) in threepeat years.
Hakeem's efficiency were 0.552(rs) - 0.553(po) in repeat years.
[QUOTE=RRR3]OP did you just start this project to try and prop Kobe up? :facepalm[/QUOTE]
How am I proping Kobe "up"?
[QUOTE=JMT]I can tell you. There are 3-4 guys on the candidate list that belong ahead of Shaq.
Duncan, [B]Robertson[/B] and Bryant are [b]easily ahead[/B]. You can debate Hakeem and West.
That's what makes it so absurd that Shaq is in consideration.[/QUOTE]
Oscar ahead of Shaq?
That being said, I usually like to use eFG% when calculating perimeter player's shooting/scoring efficiency. There isn't too much of a point in using eFG% with big men specifically Hakeem and Shaq because it is not like either one of those guys were capable of hitting 3s outside of luck pretty much.
Kobe in '08 playoffs: 51.4 eFG%
Kobe in '09 playoffs: 49.2 eFG%
Kobe in '10 playoffs: 50.6 eFG%
Hakeem in '94 playoffs: 52.1 eFG%
Hakeem in '95 playoffs: 53.3 eFG%
Shaq in '00 playoffs: 56.6 eFG%
Shaq in '01 playoffs: 55.5 eFG%
Kobe pretty much was less efficient as far as shooting is concerned, not scoring.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Oscar ahead of Shaq?[/QUOTE]
Having been the only one to vote for Oscar, let me answer your question.
Shaq didn't have the drive to be truly great, I can't vote for someone who didn't even try to live up to his talent. Say what you want about Big O and his lack of championships. He was the standard for what a great all around player was for 30 years.:bowdown: :bowdown: