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[QUOTE=ihatetimthomas]He was able to defend opposing shooting guards though. My point still remains Rose needs someone next to him like Snow. A player who made smart decisions, handled the ball, defended opposing shooting guards. A guy who can be a pg if he needs to. Bulls do not have anyone like that at all currently.[/QUOTE]
I agree but I'd rather have a guy a bit taller that could hit jumpshots.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]That's because you don't know shit about basketball to be honest.[/QUOTE]
Two words in my post: [B]true[/B] star [B]PGs[/B]. I am not saying that Rose plays the wrong way (obviously he and his team benefits from his scoring) but he is not true PG like lets say Nash and Kidd, thats all.
[QUOTE=oolalaa]Derrick Rose needs to move to shooting guard as soon as this pathetic lockout is over!
I think this for a couple of reasons...
1. It's incredibly hard to win a championship with a slashing point guard who is also your main scorer. In fact, it's so hard that no team in history has done it (A.I came closest in 01').
2. His skills are more suited to the 2 guard position. He is a good playmaker but not a great one and is always looking to attack the rim.
Although he would be a slightly undersized shooting guard, he has more than enough athletic ability to make up for it and he wouldn't be burdened with the task of running an offense.
Does anyone else agree with me?[/QUOTE]
Why slashing? He's a penetrate and kick guy, like Marbury or KJ. If he can master the pick and roll, there's no reason why his style of play would prevent him from being a great PG, and running the offense is not a burden to him.
[QUOTE=bingo123]Two words in my post: [B]true[/B] star [B]PGs[/B]. I am not saying that Rose plays the wrong way (obviously he and his team benefits from his scoring) but he is not true PG like lets say Nash and Kidd, thats all.[/QUOTE]
He plays Point Guard (remember, the COACH says who the PG of the team is not the fans), averages 8 assists, and just won an MVP.
That is a true star PG.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]He plays Point Guard (remember, the COACH says who the PG of the team is not the fans), averages 8 assists, and just won an MVP.
That is a true star PG.[/QUOTE]
But at the end of the day fans are gonna percive what position a player is based on what they belive that position is supposed to be played liked.
Just like how Shaqattack considers Duncan a center
Just like how some people claim Curry is just an undersized sg
A lot of people still put put Amare as a pf even though now he's playing the C
Ext.
I mean a lot of people list Oscar as an sg
And a lot of people question whether Magic was a pg considering a lot of times he wasn't even guarding his postion ext.
Such is life. At the end of the day if you rank Rose as a shooting guard he's still top 3. If you rank him as a pg he's top 1-3 depending on what you value.
to those saying that boozer and deng need to take more shots, and rose needs to take fewer, rose as it stands, being the main point of attention for the opposing defense has a high TS% than both of them. and in almost every circumstance, when you increase the number of possessions a player takes, his efficeincy goes down. (its pretty logical, say a player takes 10 shots, they are presumably the ten best opportunities to shot he gets, so if he takes a few more shots, they will be worse shots than he was originally taking, so his efficeincy goes down.)
so if rose takes fewer shots, the defense pays less attention to him and more to deng and boozer, so if you have deng and boozer take a few more shots per game, those shots would be even worse than the shots that they are currently taking, and the bulls offense actually gets worse. ideally korver, who has a higher TS% than all three players, would force things a little bit more, and take a few more shots.
this is all very stat heavy analysis of course, but it is backed up by watching the bulls play on offense.
(its worth mentioning that deng was more efficeint in the playoffs than rose, but the playoffs are a smaller sample size of games)
PG is an easy position to define in comparison to the PF/C debate.
-Brings the ball up.
-Initiates the offense.
-Calls the plays/floor general.
Rose does all of those.
Really, there is no debate on this in my mind. People still hold onto these antiquated ideas of what a PG should be...
Mind you, Rose averaged 8 assists on an offensively anemic team which is pretty good.
[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]But at the end of the day fans are gonna percive what position a player is based on what they belive that position is supposed to be played liked.
Just like how Shaqattack considers Duncan a center
Just like how some people claim Curry is just an undersized sg
A lot of people still put put Amare as a pf even though now he's playing the C
Ext.
I mean a lot of people list Oscar as an sg
And a lot of people question whether Magic was a pg considering a lot of times he wasn't even guarding his postion ext.
Such is life. At the end of the day if you rank Rose as a shooting guard he's still top 3. If you rank him as a pg he's top 1-3 depending on what you value.[/QUOTE]
really, positions arent as descriptive as roles. i think if you describe a player by his role, and what kind of player he is capable of defending, you would get a much better idea of what kind of player they are.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]PG is an easy position to define in comparison to the PF/C debate.
-Brings the ball up.
-Initiates the offense.
-Calls the plays/floor general.
[/QUOTE]
so was mo williams a pg when bron was doing all of those things in cleveland?
positions are close to obselete, roles are far more important. thats why wade and bron dont play well together. they play different positions, but play very similar roles.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]PG is an easy position to define in comparison to the PF/C debate.
-Brings the ball up.
-Initiates the offense.
-Calls the plays/floor general.
Rose does all of those.
Really, there is no debate on this in my mind. People still hold onto these antiquated ideas of what a PG should be...
Mind you, Rose averaged 8 assists on an offensively anemic team which is pretty good.[/QUOTE]
There's no debate in your mind because you feel the role of a pg is the three things you listed.
Other people might think differnt of what exactly defines a pg. That's my point. Just like people think differntly of what defines a Pf/C/SG/SF ext
Rose has point guard skills and he can definitely go the Wade route and be an undersized sg. He has the athleticism to make up for his lack of height. He needs someone to be more of a consistent offensive threat along with being a decent facilitator. Also, Thibs need a better offensive assistant coach. He's not great at making offensive plays from what I remember.
[QUOTE=chips93]so was mo williams a pg when bron was doing all of those things in cleveland?
positions are close to obselete, roles are far more important. thats why wade and bron dont play well together. they play different positions, but play very similar roles.[/QUOTE]
They also have similar styles of play, which actually is the reason why they don't play as well together. The 2 and the 3 have been meshed together as the main scorers.
[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]There's no debate in your mind because you feel the role of a pg is the three things you listed.
Other people might think differnt of what exactly defines a pg. That's my point. Just like people think differntly of what defines a Pf/C/SG/SF ext[/QUOTE]
I forgot to include who you guard and of course what the coach designates the player as.
People's only argument against Rose is that he shoots too much to be a PG and I think that's absurd.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]I forgot to include who you guard and of course what the coach designates the player as.
People's only argument against Rose is that he shoots too much to be a PG and I think that's absurd.[/QUOTE]
As I said if a person thinks that a there's a certain limit on the numbers of fg attempts you should take to be considered a pg that's that's persons perspectice I don't really care as long as they stay consistent.
I personally consider him a pg.
But I never understood why people harp so much about positions. I remember having a big argument with Shaqattack as to why I don't think whether Duncan's a pf or c makes any differnce because whether you switch their positions it doesn't make them any less of a player; it's not like if I label Luke Walton, to a differnt position based on what I think a small forward is it gonna make him any less sucky I just don't think it's that big of a deal.
Hell I remember early in D-Will's career I used to just call him a combo-guard and leave it at that since he played off the ball a lot because of Sloan
[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]As I said if a person thinks that a there's a certain limit on the numbers of fg attempts you should take to be considered a pg that's that's persons perspectice I don't really care as long as they stay consistent.
I personally consider him a pg.
But I never understood why people harp so much about positions. I remember having a big argument with Shaqattack as to why I don't think whether Duncan's a pf or c makes any differnce because whether you switch their positions it doesn't make them any less of a player; it's not like if I label Luke Walton, to a differnt position based on what I think a small forward is it gonna make him any less sucky I just don't think it's that big of a deal.
Hell I remember early in D-Will's career I used to just call him a combo-guard and leave it at that since he played off the ball a lot because of Sloan[/QUOTE]
That was major weird. Sloan said he was going to move him to shooting guard. I wasn't getting it at all. Obviously it could be something we didn't see and he hasn't made his mark yet in New Jersey either. But from the outside, he looks like he could be one of the best of his time if he just stays healthy.
The point is a leadership position and the primary decision maker on the team. You move a guy off of the point position he's really a fish out of water. Of all of the positions its something that a star player would have a problem with. AI was indeed a penetrating point more so than a distributing point. He like, Chauncey or Tony Parker would feel very awkward moving off of the ball. Coaches know it, teammates know it. Fans that play know it. The point is the captain of the ship... the other roles won't work. Fans, yeah you right, they will see it their way.
[QUOTE=pauk]i agree i have said this since day 1.....
there is no such thing as a scoring point guard........... there is only a point guard who can score well but always keeps his pointguard duties..... thats more like steve nash or cp3 or deron williams or mark price and so on....
a 25-30 ppg scorer from pointguard position who is not facilitating enough (derrick rose) has always been moved to SG despite the size.... monta ellis, allen iverson and soon... derrick rose... but rose is 6'3".. 1 inch less than Wade... he should be fine....
a pointguards duty is ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS to set his teammates up and make the correct decisions..... then you can score however much you like..... thats not how Derrick Rose plays...... he brings the ball up and often immediately starts driving or chucking a shot often ignoring the open man or setting up a play for a teammate and so on.......... that is NOT a pointguard.......... that is Monta Ellis, Allen Iverson......... that is Francis/Marbury....... that is DERRICK ROSE.... that is a pure undersized Shooting-Guard...[/QUOTE]
It's amazing how Pauk actually says things that aren't completely idiotic every once in awhile.