How far short of GOAT consideration is Shaq?

I think it's so hard to call Shaq the GOAT or compare him to others. He was physically gifted with a 7 foot 300something pound body. He was LITERALLY unstoppable from a physical stand point, then he was also incredibly talented basketball/skill wise. I don't think you can compare him to, lets say Jordan, because thousands of basketball players have Michael Jordans athleticism, but very few have what makes Michael Jordan the best.. the work ethic, the understanding of the game, the clutch factor, the cockiness, the I will do anything to beat you mentality.

I'm not saying Shaq shouldnt be considered, but I think it is SO hard to compare him to others just based on the pure physical ability he was born with that made him so unstoppable.

[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]I don't see Kareem's peak as being as good as Shaq's. During Kareem's peak individual seasons he was on average teams and never even made it to the finals. Kareem never had the devastating impact Shaq did and he certainly never inspired his teammates the way Shaq did when he was at his best. During Shaq's peak no one was on his level. There was always someone arguably as good or better than Kareem.[/QUOTE]

I actually agree with much of this. I am one of the few here who believes that Kareem's career has been over-rated on the forum. On the other hand, a PEAK Shaq was just overwhelming.

I also believe that a motivated Shaq could have been even more dominant, and for a longer period of time. There was really no excuse for him to have NEVER led the NBA in rebounding, especially when he pounded Mutombo in the Finals one year. To be an athletic 7-1, and 325+ lbs, he should have won SEVERAL rebounding titles. He was also a proven shot-blocker in the post-season (again, he had more blocks than Mutombo in that series), so he should have won at least a couple of shot-blocking titles.

Still, as big as he was, and with the weight he was carrying, he was a marvel. In his "three-peat", he had regular seasons of 40.0 mpg, 39.5 mpg, and a slight dropoff to 36.1 mpg. But, then in the post-season, he averaged 43.5 mpg, 42.3 mpg, and 40.8 mpg.

And the man played for 19 seasons. Granted, he was a shell in his 3-4 years, but for a huge chunk of his career, he was a top-5 player (and IMHO, he was the best player in the game from '98 thru '05.)

I personally have Shaq at #6 on my list (for whatever that is worth), and behind Russell, MJ, Magic, Wilt, and Kareem. And the more I study their careers, the more I am becoming inclined to give Shaq a slight nod over Kareem for the 5th spot. But for now, I'll keep Kareem at #5.

[QUOTE=AI3Anthony]because thousands of basketball players have Michael Jordans athleticism[/QUOTE]

Err, try like 3-4 players tops in history at SG/SF. MAYBE. lol @ "thousands." :oldlol:

[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]I don't see Kareem's peak as being as good as Shaq's. During Kareem's peak individual seasons he was on [B]average teams and never even made it to the finals. [/B][B]Kareem never had the devastating impact Shaq did[/B] and he certainly never inspired his teammates the way Shaq did when he was at his best. [B]During Shaq's peak no one was on his level.[/B] There was always someone arguably as good or better than Kareem.[/QUOTE]
Oh come on.

Also; like Shaq went to the finals with an average teams, supporting casts?:facepalm

Lastly you can't name an all-time great center which is in his prime during Shaq's championship years. What about that?

[QUOTE=Odinn]Oh come on.

Also; like Shaq went to the finals with an average teams, supporting casts?:facepalm

Lastly you can't name an all-time great center which is in his prime during Shaq's championship years. What about that?[/QUOTE]

Kareem went to the Finals with average teams?

3rd Year Shaq absolutely beasted against Prime Hakeem
29/12.5/6.3/2.5 60%FG

Kareem was

Shaq's 00 Cast was average certainly not one of the better all around Casts in the league that year.

Other Bigmen he destroyed.
DPOY Mutombo.
Wallace Twins.
Duncan + DRob.
Portland Defense...

Who did Kareem have in the 70's?
Willis Reed and Walton?

Shaq proved he could perform at the highest level against the best competition.

[QUOTE=32Dayz]Kareem went to the Finals with average teams?

3rd Year Shaq absolutely beasted against Prime Hakeem
29/12.5/6.3/2.5 60%FG

Other Bigmen he destroyed.
DPOY Mutombo.
Wallace Twins.
Duncan + DRob.
Portland Defense...

Who did Kareem have in the 70's?
Willis Reed and Walton?[/QUOTE]
You are not even worthed for a reply...

[QUOTE=Odinn]You are not even worthed for a reply...[/QUOTE]

Your average post's are not even worth reading they are so illogical.

Kareem played on some of the most stacked teams ever in LA and along side the greatest PG ever.

Dont think that helped him greatly?

Shaq played with a ballhog SG who although was also a GOAT player certainly didnt benefit him the way Magic did Kareem.

[QUOTE=32Dayz]3rd Year Shaq [B]absolutely beasted[/B] against Prime Hakeem
29/12.5/6.3/2.5 60%FG[/QUOTE]
Look what you wrote and you're still trying. What can I say... Keep trolling.

[QUOTE=Odinn]Look what you wrote and you're still trying. What can I say... Keep trolling.[/QUOTE]

lol?

Guess your one of those Morons who think Hakeem "Dominated" or significantly outplayed Shaq that year.

It's a team game you dont blame a single player for success or failure especially not when that player is playing at a level few players in history have matched.

And you call me a troll.

:facepalm

he got 3 rings as the go to guy, if he had 4-5 as a alpha dawg he would be a goat contender + maybe 1 more mvp

[QUOTE=jlauber]I actually agree with much of this. I am one of the few here who believes that Kareem's career has been over-rated on the forum. On the other hand, a PEAK Shaq was just overwhelming.

I also believe that a motivated Shaq could have been even more dominant, and for a longer period of time. There was really no excuse for him to have NEVER led the NBA in rebounding, especially when he pounded Mutombo in the Finals one year. To be an athletic 7-1, and 325+ lbs, he should have won SEVERAL rebounding titles. He was also a proven shot-blocker in the post-season (again, he had more blocks than Mutombo in that series), so he should have won at least a couple of shot-blocking titles.

Still, as big as he was, and with the weight he was carrying, he was a marvel. In his "three-peat", he had regular seasons of 40.0 mpg, 39.5 mpg, and a slight dropoff to 36.1 mpg. But, then in the post-season, he averaged 43.5 mpg, 42.3 mpg, and 40.8 mpg.

And the man played for 19 seasons. Granted, he was a shell in his 3-4 years, but for a huge chunk of his career, he was a top-5 player (and IMHO, he was the best player in the game from '98 thru '05.)

I personally have Shaq at #6 on my list (for whatever that is worth), and behind Russell, MJ, Magic, Wilt, and Kareem. And the more I study their careers, the more I am becoming inclined to give Shaq a slight nod over Kareem for the 5th spot. But for now, I'll keep Kareem at #5.[/QUOTE]

Good post. For the record jlauber who rounds out your top 10? 7 through 10 that is.

[QUOTE=Odinn]Oh come on.

Also; like Shaq went to the finals with an average teams, supporting casts? [/quote]

Objectively Kareem's roster with the '78 Lakers is better than the '00 Lakers.

And besides that's not my point. I'm saying the circumstances of Kareem's career were such that during his best individual seasons he had the least talent around him.

[QUOTE=Odinn]Lastly you can't name an all-time great center which is in his prime during Shaq's championship years. What about that?[/QUOTE]

That's my point. The Gap between Shaq and his peers was greater than the gap between Kareem and his.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Err, try like 3-4 players tops in history at SG/SF. MAYBE. lol @ "thousands." :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

No. A lot of players and athletes around the world possess athleticism close to him. Jordans athleticism isn't what broke him apart from all the others. It was all the intangibles.

[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]That's my point. The Gap between Shaq and his peers was greater than the gap between Kareem and his.[/QUOTE]
That's why said "oh come on".

Shaq didn't make that difference, it was already there.

I'm not trying to discredit Shaq. His peak was top5 at least and can be called arguably the best. But your this argument is invalid I think.

[QUOTE=Odinn]Shaq didn't make that difference, it was already there.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean? Without Shaq creating the gap, it's not there