The "Ring" Argument

[QUOTE=KDthunderup]You say Bosh is better then Gasol but you claim that players around the same ability should be judged on rings :roll: :roll: Please, go suck Kobe's nuts some more[/QUOTE]


Your whole anaysis/logicin your head is beyond my impair. Anyone that thinks Karl Malone is > Duncan or Lebron is > Kobe is a complete moron. Sure those guys played and were keyword trying to win, but they failed. That's what it's all about. Let's say Joe and Bob average 94% on regular tests, but Joe fails his final test and gets 50% on his final while Bob passes it. That's exactly what guys like Stockton, Malone and Lebron(up to this point) are.

[QUOTE=Rake2204].

To me, Bryant helping his '06 squad win 45 games with Smush Parker as the team's third leading scorer and nearly upsetting the Suns in the first round was just as impressive to me as his being a part of a super talented championship team featuring Pau Gasol, Shaquille O'Neal, and Andrew Bynum. Again, if the Gasol deal was never struck, would Kobe be viewed as "less great" if he then never developed a solid enough supporting cast to win any Shaq-less rings? Yes, Kobe would probably be viewed as such. But would it be accurate? No. Would he be any less of a great player? No.[/QUOTE]
Nice point - but it is strictly a appreciation of a player balling not per say his validation to getting to a championship or a ring.

AI had 100% role players around him , which equates to 1 super star taking his team to the finals. (Yes that was impressive)
But to put the validation that Kobe is a top 5 or 10 all time player , and not reaching the finals except when he had Shaq or Pau validates those players were a large key to those championships than Kobe's career ring total.

I am picking on Kobe as an example because he's quote " super star " unquote

And will be in the HOF , but not honing that those 5 rings were because of his dominate role.

OP focusing on rings is an opstacle to valid players worth , should be re-evaluted even super star value to rings , when a player has 5 or 6 compared to a superstar with a weaker roster and won 3 rings.
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[QUOTE=SlayerEnraged]Your whole anaysis/logicin your head is beyond my impair. Anyone that thinks Karl Malone is > Duncan or Lebron is > Kobe is a complete moron. Sure those guys played and were keyword trying to win, but they failed. That's what it's all about. Let's say Joe and Bob average 94% on regular tests, but Joe fails his final test and gets 50% on his final while Bob passes it. That's exactly what guys like Stockton, Malone and Lebron(up to this point) are.[/QUOTE]
I give up with these Kobe fans, they contradict themselves, they come up with retarded examples, not including all the variables that can occur in a final.

On ability wise how the **** can you compare Lebron to Kobe at all? How can you not see that Lebron is nearly better then Kobe at all facets of the game? Im Durant fan, I have no reason to be bias at all.

I see it with my glasses off, whilst you still have your yellow and purple ones still on.

Anyone that even brings up the Derek Fisher or Robert Horry argument is a moron devoid of basketball intelligence.

[QUOTE=KDthunderup]I give up with these Kobe fans, they contradict themselves, they come up with retarded examples, not including all the variables that can occur in a final.

On ability wise how the **** can you compare Lebron to Kobe at all? How can you not see that Lebron is nearly better then Kobe at all facets of the game? Im Durant fan, I have no reason to be bias at all.

I see it with my glasses off, whilst you still have your yellow and purple ones still on.[/QUOTE]

I never said Lebron wasn't better than Kobe this season or last season u moron. Here's the problem with 90% of ISH'ers: They're full of assumptions. They assume u think this or that but really don't know wtf they're talking about. We're talking about all time wise and no untill Lebron wins a championship, he's not gonna be with the elites. U mad and gonna :cry: ?

[QUOTE=KDthunderup]I give up with these Kobe fans, they contradict themselves, they come up with retarded examples, not including all the variables that can occur in a final.

On ability wise how the **** can you compare Lebron to Kobe at all? How can you not see that Lebron is nearly better then Kobe at all facets of the game? Im Durant fan, I have no reason to be bias at all.

I see it with my glasses off, whilst you still have your yellow and purple ones still on.[/QUOTE]

What variable did Lebron not have in his 2 finals appearences? Maybe i'd feel sympathetic for him losing if he didn't play like shit in the finals :lol

[QUOTE=SlayerEnraged]I never said Lebron wasn't better than Kobe this season or last season u moron. Here's the problem with 90% of ISH'ers: They're full of assumptions. They assume u think this or that but really don't know wtf they're talking about. We're talking about all time wise and no untill Lebron wins a championship, he's not gonna be with the elites. U mad and gonna :cry: ?[/QUOTE]
Why the **** are we judging on career status when both their careers aren't even over or are at the same stage?

Still rings dont make one player then another, they could of just had the fortitude of having great teammates, coach, money to buy more players.

And why would I be mad if Lebron wins a championship or not, I support the Thunder, I have owned you to many times now to keep caring.

[QUOTE=KDthunderup]I give up with these Kobe fans, they contradict themselves, they come up with retarded examples, not including all the variables that can occur in a final.

[B]On ability wise how the **** can you compare Lebron to Kobe at all? How can you not see that Lebron is nearly better then Kobe at all facets of the game?[/B] Im Durant fan, I have no reason to be bias at all.

I see it with my glasses off, whilst you still have your yellow and purple ones still on.[/QUOTE]

Wait what? :oldlol: Did you seriously just post that?

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]Wait what? :oldlol: Did you seriously just post that?[/QUOTE]Currently yes, and it isnt even close, Kobe is better at playing in the post and shooting, but that's where it ends.

[QUOTE=KDthunderup]Why the **** are we judging on career status when both their careers aren't even over or are at the same stage?

Still rings dont make one player then another, they could of just had the fortitude of having great teammates, coach, money to buy more players.

And why would I be mad if Lebron wins a championship or not, I support the Thunder, I have owned you to many times now to keep caring.[/QUOTE]

Ur a sad little chitzu trying to play and compete with the big german shepards. Hurry move along now...everybody lets give KDthunderup a loud :applause: for his commendable effort lmao. P.S. What was Lebrons age in the finals last year? 26 or 27? 26 year old Kobe isn't going to lose with Wade and Bosh on his team lol.:sleeping u weak.

[B]Tim Duncan had he faced a Healthy Prime Barkley and a Prime Malone would have gotten poulverized.

The only thin he is Better than Barkley and Malone is as a Shot Blocker cause he plays more like a Center.

Barkley outplayed Duncan at ages 34-36 when he was overweight and constantly injured[/B]

[B][QUOTE=Lebron23][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178915[/url]

Nice posts by Kblaze300000 in this thread.[/QUOTE]


Well if that was done today or even 20 years ago you might say some of those celtic players might have a case.. But just like jordans 6 modern day titles look better than russells 11 from the 60s... So do kobes 5 against somes 7 or 8 from that period aswell...


What lebron fans fail at most on here is comon sense


They like to make half a$$d judgement against anything lebron lacks

They would be willing to drop jordans accomplishments just to degrade kobes


The fact is.. Rings are what back up jordans stats and records.. Without rings mj wouldnt even sniff the top 5.. People would treat him like they do baylor or malone...

This is what validates kobe.. History


Sorry lebrick fans. You cant rewrite history[/B]

[QUOTE=KDthunderup]Currently yes, and it isnt even close, Kobe is better at playing in the post and shooting, but that's where it ends.[/QUOTE]

Okay thanks for clearing that up. I thought you meant throughout their careers. Fair enough, but even post mortem Kobe is doing his best to keep up with Lebron despite the fact that it's his like 15th year in the league. Some players are still calling him the best player in the league.

[QUOTE=Tenchi Ryu]Basketball is a team sport, which is true. But the thing about Basketball is that unlike any other team sport, the court and overall flow of the game can be effected by one person. One person can be making a huge impact on the game. Its usually these people who are brought up in the RING discussion in the first place, not the role-players or scrubs who did their intended part.

You would never hear Fisher > Iverson cause of rings, cause his impact wasn't a dominate force to GET the ring.

Compare to say a argument like Kobe > Iverson cause of rings, that's different since Kobe WAS one of the dominant forces mostly responsible for the ring. Teammates are important, but the more elite you are, the better you'll make your team, simple as that. Cleveland Lebron was a testament to that. T-Mac on the Rockets had a opportunity IMHO.[/QUOTE]


this..... Football is the sport where i would say the rings argument is kinda baseless. Basketball on the other hand is a sport where one player can carry team.

Rings are meaningless.
Performances are the only things that matter.

Good playoff performances enhance a players career.
Good Finals performances enhance a players career.

Lebron is a better playoff performer then Kobe outside of the Finals.
Kobe has 2-3 good Finals performances.

Lebron with 2+ good Finals performances surpasses Kobe.

Its pretty simple stuff.

:applause: