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Can't remember who, but some scout said that, despite being 6' 10", Tim Duncan's wingspan is 7' 3", and that explains why he can corrall a lot of rebounds without fouling others (over the back) and why he can block shots without having to jump so high and inadvertently bump into the shooter's body, etc.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW][IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GZGW3hPlALc/T1RK-uTYiiI/AAAAAAAADMI/iyViIaKHQ5c/s800/wilt%2520sca33le.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
That's the most amazing pix I've seen today. :cheers:
[QUOTE=PP34Deuce]its crazy seeing jerry west videos... skinny and short shorts with massive biceps and arm length for his size... He was a freak of a nature especially being Caucasion with that wingspan.[/QUOTE]
This is a good observation. I know bringing up race is sensitive but it is actually true, the majority of caucasian (and asian) individuals do not tend to have a significantly greater wingspan than their own height. It can be attributed as a subtle, cooler climate adaptation (as seen in other animals).
Longer limbs are more common in the people of immediate African ancestry. Bodies with larger surface areas (leaner, longer limbed) are a warm climate adaptation seen in [I]many[/I] species in nature (wolves of the same species in northern latitudes have shorter legs than southern latitude wolves). It would seem humans are no exception. But, we all came from Africa at some point in ~recent pre-history so we are all still the same species with virtually identical DNA - the frequency of expression is the only real difference in "races" if such a word is appropriate. So Jerry West does have an uncommon physique for a "white guy" :D
[QUOTE=Gotterdammerung]That's the most amazing pix I've seen today. :cheers:[/QUOTE]
Thanks :cheers:
Some people tend to think the NBA is just a bunch of Wilt Chamberlains running around the floor today because they say "he was ahead of his time". That's not really the case, time isn't likely to "catch up" to him at all, sure some guys here and there might approach his height, or his athleticism, or any one of a few specific characteristics he had but the combination of traits he possessed isn't ever going to be found on a regular basis, and it may never be found within our life times or in many future life-times he might be that rare who knows. All I know, based on research I've done, is that to this point there hasn't been other guys with the combination of things he had. So there really is some solid, explainable reasons as to why he was so physically dominant and it's got it's got less to do with any "he faced (insert criticism) talent" than some might think. By the way - in the chart, as shown - he was "only" 6'11.5 in [I]High School[/I] - he was 7'1.06 when he was fully grown... he got bigger than you see in that picture.
Those are barefoot heights of all of those guys. Iggys and Dwights came from [url]www.draftexpress.com/measurements[/url]. And I know Wilt's high-school height because of an interview on film where a journalist asks: "You know I've heard you are anywhere from 7 to as much as 9 feet tall, would you please clarify for everyone, exactly how tall you are?" Wilt's response: "Well, I'm exactly 6'11.5 in my stocking feet (his socks)." So those are all accurately scaled vertically to represent their heights based on a grid I extrapolated based on the known diameters of a basketball. Grid scaling like this is something I do while publishing scientific illustrations such as paleontology art. It makes for a great visual to show just how massive and long his frame was. Look at his hands compared to Iggy's
:D
[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BcvlJQFFwiw/T2Te30k25xI/AAAAAAAADOk/9UY2XQWc_Gw/s800/West1110028.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e9ptFegtSGg/T2Tfo7rxOhI/AAAAAAAADOs/m8UZ8BnOeM8/s400/3zh1p2912.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dvZcnlTcByM/T2Tgh2KVO_I/AAAAAAAADO0/D6NJrfhvUXA/s800/West-Pitt-126.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5csP6wp3aW4/T2Ta1w6MJJI/AAAAAAAADOc/WxGvVThG8aM/s800/West%2520blocks.jpg[/IMG]
West is an impressive specimen for such a small guy. I'm pretty sure the footage of him as an old Laker in the 70's that everybody sees most often won't do him justice for what he once was. A high-flying, very fast, very long short guy. With a tenacious competitive drive and no fear in the clutch.
Check out his chase-down blocks:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvMq-eX_pNw&t=2m55s[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVi0EtJcZg&t=10m56s[/url]
[QUOTE=jlauber]Too bad West had poor form with his jump shot, and couldn't dribble with his left hand (or go left), or maybe he could have had seasons of 30 ppg, and post-seasons in the high 30's (and even a series of 46 ppg.)[/QUOTE]
Can't you just shut up for once?
You whine constantly and you spam constantly about people dissing the players in the 60's. Why do you even care so much? Even you used to write how modern era players are better than these guys, you hypocrite.
And you always post that agenda-driven crap because you are obsessed with Wilt, you couldn't care less about anyone else in the 60's, you're only defending them to make Wilt look better. You're such a f4ggot.
[QUOTE=Eric Cartman]OP would be a great detective in real life.[/QUOTE]
OP is actually a great poster, I read most of his stuff and he always backs up his posts with excellent sources, pics and videos.
[QUOTE=millwad]OP is actually a great poster, I read most of his stuff and he always backs up his posts with excellent sources, pics and videos.[/QUOTE]
:cheers:
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Thanks :cheers:
Some people tend to think the NBA is just a bunch of Wilt Chamberlains running around the floor today because they say "he was ahead of his time". That's not really the case, time isn't likely to "catch up" to him at all, sure some guys here and there might approach his height, or his athleticism, or any one of a few specific characteristics he had but the combination of traits he possessed isn't ever going to be found on a regular basis, and it may never be found within our life times or in many future life-times he might be that rare who knows. All I know, based on research I've done, is that to this point there hasn't been other guys with the combination of things he had. So there really is some solid, explainable reasons as to why he was so physically dominant and it's got it's got less to do with any "he faced (insert criticism) talent" than some might think. By the way - in the chart, as shown - he was "only" 6'11.5 in [I]High School[/I] - he was 7'1.06 when he was fully grown... he got bigger than you see in that picture.
Those are barefoot heights of all of those guys. Iggys and Dwights came from [url]www.draftexpress.com/measurements[/url]. And I know Wilt's high-school height because of an interview on film where a journalist asks: "You know I've heard you are anywhere from 7 to as much as 9 feet tall, would you please clarify for everyone, exactly how tall you are?" Wilt's response: "Well, I'm exactly 6'11.5 in my stocking feet (his socks)." So those are all accurately scaled vertically to represent their heights based on a grid I extrapolated based on the known diameters of a basketball. Grid scaling like this is something I do while publishing scientific illustrations such as paleontology art. It makes for a great visual to show just how massive and long his frame was. Look at his hands compared to Iggy's
:D[/QUOTE]
It is a fantastic photo, and you did a great job in extrapolating from the image of the basketball, which seems quite logical after all. :cheers:
A 16 year old Wilt looming behind both modern day NBA players drives the point home better than any yakety yak yak ever could. :biggums:
As for Wilt's grip, we see this all the time in those old videos where he's palming the ball like a small grapefruit, before he makes a move to the basket or swings a dump off pass to a cutting teammate, etc.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW][IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BcvlJQFFwiw/T2Te30k25xI/AAAAAAAADOk/9UY2XQWc_Gw/s800/West1110028.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e9ptFegtSGg/T2Tfo7rxOhI/AAAAAAAADOs/m8UZ8BnOeM8/s400/3zh1p2912.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dvZcnlTcByM/T2Tgh2KVO_I/AAAAAAAADO0/D6NJrfhvUXA/s800/West-Pitt-126.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5csP6wp3aW4/T2Ta1w6MJJI/AAAAAAAADOc/WxGvVThG8aM/s800/West%2520blocks.jpg[/IMG]
West is an impressive specimen for such a small guy. I'm pretty sure the footage of him as an old Laker in the 70's that everybody sees most often won't do him justice for what he once was. A high-flying, very fast, very long short guy. With a tenacious competitive drive and no fear in the clutch.
Check out his chase-down blocks:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvMq-eX_pNw&t=2m55s[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVi0EtJcZg&t=10m56s[/url][/QUOTE]
Almost one decade ago, I had seen and saved a black-white photo of West (I'm 80% sure it was a photo of him from college) that showed him (probably) having another of his chase-down blocked shots. The photo was taken from behind, but showed him bending in the air in order to avoid hitting the backboard with his head. The perception, of course, of the photo wasn't the best availabe, but he did seem like he was doing the right thing and that his head was very close to the backboard (a height of 9.5 feet).
But alas, this was 3 PC's ago. I've tried to no avail to find this photo in my current PC or in the Internet.
OP's a person who doesn't mind to research into things.
I wish i could do the same, but this month, i didn't have the most brilliant times so i have to improve few grades. If you don't mind, i may use some of this staff into my articles.
[QUOTE=millwad]Can't you just shut up for once?
You whine constantly and you spam constantly about people dissing the players in the 60's. Why do you even care so much? Even you used to write how modern era players are better than these guys, you hypocrite.
And you always post that agenda-driven crap because you are obsessed with Wilt, you couldn't care less about anyone else in the 60's, you're only defending them to make Wilt look better. You're such a f4ggot.[/QUOTE]
Dickwad,
YOU were the LIAR who claimed that Hakeem didn't guard Kareem in the games in which a 38-39 year old Kareem just SHELLED the Rockets. The FACT is, YOU have NEVER seen ONE MINUTE of ANY of those games, you idiot.
YOU know absolutely NOTHING about the game...PERIOD. YOU have NEVER provided one SHRED of evidence, or research in ANY of your posts. AND, you continually pop into these topics, and offer NOTHING, but complete nonsense.
Furthermore, as more-and-more VIDEO FOOTAGE, NEWPAPER and MAGAZINE articles AT THE TIME, and QUOTES from FIRST HAND accounts by PEERS, becomes available, the clowns like yourself, will continue to duck for cover.
YOU and a few others have been plastering this forum for the last couple of years that Wilt wasn't doing anything that he was given credit for. Where is the VIDEO FOOTAGE that shows Wilt's vertical? Oh wait, we now have a VIDEO of a Chamberlain, in a fast-paced game, with no time to react, and going straight up (without benefit of a running start), with his fingertips at near the top of the backboard. CLEARLY, we now KNOW that the man was capable of touching the backboard, a feat which the "anti-Wilt" clan claimed was impossible. We also have the VIDEO conversation of none other than Tex Winter, claiming that he witnessed a high school Chamberlain, with three steps from behind the FT line, DUNKING a basketball...which supports the TONE of ARTICLES which have credited Wilt with that astonishing feat.
YOU, and other's laughed at my posts claiming that Wilt had a good outside game, even though I provided a quote from a HOF coach who claimed that very fact. All of a sudden, in the last few months, we have VIDEO FOOTAGE, during actual GAMES, in which Wilt is hitting a variety of shots from 15+ feet. Not a single highlight here-or-there, but MULTIPLE SHOTS in SINGLE GAMES, in which Wilt is scoring from 15+ feet, and making bank shots, JUMP SHOTS, spinning turn-around jump shots, and even HOOK SHOTS. CLEARLY, a Wilt up thru the first half of his pro career, was a GOOD outside shooter.
Then, YOU challenged my take that Wilt was SWARMED in his career. Here again, we have VIDEO FOOTAGE which supports just that. Not only that, we have multiple ARTICLES which back up that claim. And we have QUOTES from PEERS who also support my take.
Then you challenged my take that Wilt blocked some 15 of Kareem's "unblockable" skyhooks in the '72 WCF's. We do KNOW that Wilt was capable of blocking them, because we have VIDEO FOOTAGE in which Wilt blocks not one, but TWO, in a span of a few seconds. We also have the OP claiming that he saw Wilt block 20+ in that series. We have the RESEARCH by another poster here, who provided the Wilt-Kareem H2H's LONG BEFORE anyone else ever did, and SURE ENOUGH, his RESEARCH was dead-on...claiming that Wiilt blocked 15 of Kareem's shots in just three games of that series. Furthermore, he provided RESEARCH with a total of 29 blocks, just covering SIX of the 28 H2H's between the two. Of course, PHILA provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES with some of Wilt's block totals against Kareem in that series, too.
YOU also challenged my take that Wilt OUTPLAYED Kareem in the '72 WCF's, citing your RIDICULOUS OPINION that since Kareem outscored Wilt, he must have outplayed him. YET, I have provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES, including one by the MILWAUKEE PRESS, as well as one TIME MAGAZINE, which CLEARLY gave Wilt the "win" in that series. Of course, CavsFan provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES which credited Wilt with outplaying Kareem in the '71 WCF's, as well (in a series in which the 34 year old Wilt, and only a year removed from major knee surgery, matched a PRIME Kareem in every stat.)
Of course, I also provided a TON of statistical information, in which a PRIME Chamberlain dominated many of the SAME centers that Kareem would face (and most well past their primes when he did so), FAR more than Kareem ever did. Or that a Wilt, before shredding his knee, just POUNDED a young Kareem in their one H2H before Chamberlain's injury (and that was NOT a PRIME Wilt either.)
All of which was remarkable, since a 38-39 year old Kareem was scoring at will against a helpless Hakeem. In fact, Hakeem was well down the list of those that defended Kareem in their H2H's. Gilmore, Thurmond, and Moses were much more competitive. In fact, a PRIME Moses thoroughly outplayed a near-PRIME Kareem (here again, Kareem's REAL PRIME was in the early 70's.)
So, maybe YOU should just give up this continuous trash against the players of the 60's. Players like West, Oscar, Russell, Thurmond, Lucas, Hawkins, Maravich, Gus Johnson, Earl Monroe, Kareem, and Wilt, would all be GREAT in today's game. We have enough VIDEO FOOTAGE, and RESEARCH that CLEARLY demonstrates that fact.
And, you have NEVER offered ANY research, or video footage, or articles AT THE TIME, or quotes from PEERS, that would refute those claims.
And, before you try to blame me for bringing Wilt into this discussion...take a close look at YOUR post. ONCE AGAIN, it was YOU that did. Now, why don't YOU do all of the intelligent posters here a favor, and just refrain from making a complete a$$ of yourself by popping into nearly every topic which is even remotely associated with Wilt, and posting your usual TRASH?
[QUOTE=jlauber]Dickwad,
YOU were the LIAR who claimed that Hakeem didn't guard Kareem in the games in which a 38-39 year old Kareem just SHELLED the Rockets. The FACT is, YOU have NEVER seen ONE MINUTE of ANY of those games, you idiot.
YOU know absolutely NOTHING about the game...PERIOD. YOU have NEVER provided one SHRED of evidence, or research in ANY of your posts. AND, you continually pop into these topics, and offer NOTHING, but complete nonsense.
Furthermore, as more-and-more VIDEO FOOTAGE, NEWPAPER and MAGAZINE articles AT THE TIME, and QUOTES from FIRST HAND accounts by PEERS, becomes available, the clowns like yourself, will continue to duck for cover.
YOU and a few others have been plastering this forum for the last couple of years that Wilt wasn't doing anything that he was given credit for. Where is the VIDEO FOOTAGE that shows Wilt's vertical? Oh wait, we now have a VIDEO of a Chamberlain, in a fast-paced game, with no time to react, and going straight up (without benefit of a running start), with his fingertips at near the top of the backboard. CLEARLY, we now KNOW that the man was capable of touching the backboard, a feat which the "anti-Wilt" clan claimed was impossible. We also have the VIDEO conversation of none other than Tex Winter, claiming that he witnessed a high school Chamberlain, with three steps from behind the FT line, DUNKING a basketball...which supports the TONE of ARTICLES which have credited Wilt with that astonishing feat.
YOU, and other's laughed at my posts claiming that Wilt had a good outside game, even though I provided a quote from a HOF coach who claimed that very fact. All of a sudden, in the last few months, we have VIDEO FOOTAGE, during actual GAMES, in which Wilt is hitting a variety of shots from 15+ feet. Not a single highlight here-or-there, but MULTIPLE SHOTS in SINGLE GAMES, in which Wilt is scoring from 15+ feet, and making bank shots, JUMP SHOTS, spinning turn-around jump shots, and even HOOK SHOTS. CLEARLY, a Wilt up thru the first half of his pro career, was a GOOD outside shooter.
Then, YOU challenged my take that Wilt was SWARMED in his career. Here again, we have VIDEO FOOTAGE which supports just that. Not only that, we have multiple ARTICLES which back up that claim. And we have QUOTES from PEERS who also support my take.
Then you challenged my take that Wilt blocked some 15 of Kareem's "unblockable" skyhooks in the '72 WCF's. We do KNOW that Wilt was capable of blocking them, because we have VIDEO FOOTAGE in which Wilt blocks not one, but TWO, in a span of a few seconds. We also have the OP claiming that he saw Wilt block 20+ in that series. We have the RESEARCH by another poster here, who provided the Wilt-Kareem H2H's LONG BEFORE anyone else ever did, and SURE ENOUGH, his RESEARCH was dead-on...claiming that Wiilt blocked 15 of Kareem's shots in just three games of that series. Furthermore, he provided RESEARCH with a total of 29 blocks, just covering SIX of the 28 H2H's between the two. Of course, PHILA provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES with some of Wilt's block totals against Kareem in that series, too.
YOU also challenged my take that Wilt OUTPLAYED Kareem in the '72 WCF's, citing your RIDICULOUS OPINION that since Kareem outscored Wilt, he must have outplayed him. YET, I have provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES, including one by the MILWAUKEE PRESS, as well as one TIME MAGAZINE, which CLEARLY gave Wilt the "win" in that series. Of course, CavsFan provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES which credited Wilt with outplaying Kareem in the '71 WCF's, as well (in a series in which the 34 year old Wilt, and only a year removed from major knee surgery, matched a PRIME Kareem in every stat.)
Of course, I also provided a TON of statistical information, in which a PRIME Chamberlain dominated many of the SAME centers that Kareem would face (and most well past their primes when he did so), FAR more than Kareem ever did. Or that a Wilt, before shredding his knee, just POUNDED a young Kareem in their one H2H before Chamberlain's injury (and that was NOT a PRIME Wilt either.)
All of which was remarkable, since a 38-39 year old Kareem was scoring at will against a helpless Hakeem. In fact, Hakeem was well down the list of those that defended Kareem in their H2H's. Gilmore, Thurmond, and Moses were much more competitive. In fact, a PRIME Moses thoroughly outplayed a near-PRIME Kareem (here again, Kareem's REAL PRIME was in the early 70's.)
So, maybe YOU should just give up this continuous trash against the players of the 60's. Players like West, Oscar, Russell, Thurmond, Lucas, Hawkins, Maravich, Gus Johnson, Earl Monroe, Kareem, and Wilt, would all be GREAT in today's game. We have enough VIDEO FOOTAGE, and RESEARCH that CLEARLY demonstrates that fact.
And, you have NEVER offered ANY research, or video footage, or articles AT THE TIME, or quotes from PEERS, that would refute those claims.
And, before you try to blame me for bringing Wilt into this discussion...take a close look at YOUR post. ONCE AGAIN, it was YOU that did. Now, why don't YOU do all of the intelligent posters here a favor, and just refrain from making a complete a$$ of yourself by popping into nearly every topic which is even remotely associated with Wilt, and posting your usual TRASH?[/QUOTE]
Can't actually get it that you spent all that time just to "diss" me.
I have already covered all your lies and BS
And Jlauber, it's pathetic that you're misreading my posts with purpose.
I never wrote that Wilt didn't get double-team'd, I wrote that he didn't get as many double-teams like modern centers a la Hakeem and Shaq and that he faced worse defensive schemes.
And you idiot, you wrote that Wilt "murdered" Kareem in '72, I'm sure Wilt-fans like CavaliersFTW can tell you that that wasn't the case.
And still you can't prove that Wilt blocked 20+ skyhooks in that series, idiot.
And I wrote that Wilt didn't touch the top of the backboard in that clip, I don't know if he could touch the top of the backboard..
I've never said that old school legends wouldn't be great with modern ways of training..:facepalm
You suck so much.. Now shut your mouth and go and do something else and stop spamming about Wilt in a thread about Jerry West.
[QUOTE=millwad]Can't actually get it that you spent all that time just to "diss" me.
I have already covered all your lies and BS