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[QUOTE=Kobe 4 The Win]At no time did I say the only reason Bird gets attention or wins awards is because he's white but I think you'd be a fool to ignore race and it's impact.[/QUOTE]
Race gives the rivalry more exposure because they contrasted in so many ways: black, white; recluse, partygoer; Celtics, Lakers; College adversaries; two great players. But to suggest that Larry was pushed to the front as a conspiracy and didn't deserve his MVPs is bullcrap.
Are people here suggesting that Bird won those 3 MVPs because he was white? I would love to hear who people would have voted over Bird in the MVP race in '84, '85, & '86 because Bird was clearly the best player in the league at that time.
In 1941 Joe Dimaggio won the regular season AL MVP award largely on the strength of his 56 game hitting streak. A legend for the ages and a season for the ages. Also in the 1941 season Ted Williams hit .406 and won the AL Triple Crown.
So because Dimaggio won the MVP then we can say with certainty that Dimaggio > Williams in 1941, right?
:biggums:
[QUOTE=Champ]Of course there's a rebuttal; I had one for you on the last thread and you've already forgotten about it.
To refresh your memory, it's not about race -- he was the best player in the league during each of those three years.
But by all means, please go ahead and enlighten the rest of us on who you think deserved the award more in '84, '85, and '86.[/QUOTE]
I think I did reply to you that in ANY given year...there are 2-3 players who could legitimately considered the MVP of the league..
if things are close..generally other criteria is used..such as best player on team with best record is going to win the award
Barkley could have gotten mvp one year that Magic got it...had phenomenal year but off court stuff and being outspoken kept CB from getting it..and Sixers record was bad
Kidd could have gotten it one year, but domestic issue doomed him and Duncan got it.
I think in any one of those years that there were 2 other players who had equal or close to equally phenomenal years....or who were the best players on teams with better records.
if things are close...the white superstar who plays for the big sports city gets the knod.....
3 straight years....which neither KAJ..nor Jordan ever did...
[QUOTE=Kobe 4 The Win]In 1941 Joe Dimaggio won the regular season AL MVP award largely on the strength of his 56 game hitting streak. A legend for the ages and a season for the ages. Also in the 1941 season Ted Williams hit .406 and won the AL Triple Crown.
So because Dimaggio won the MVP then we can say with certainty that Dimaggio > Williams in 1941, right?
:biggums:[/QUOTE]
speaking of Ted Williams..I'm not a baseball guy nor am I from boston but I read this story when I was a very young kid and never really respected sports reporters
Forget the details but ....Ted didn't get along with a reporter...and after a stellar,even for him..year...he either missed out on unanimous mvp or didn't get some award because the reporter left him off the ballot or didn't vot eofr him in the top 3 or something
really petty shit....even though Williams' numbers...and in baseball numbers do all of the talking....williams' number justified him being mvp?
maybe someone can clarify the real story but petty ass, childish reporter tried to screw Williams.
[QUOTE=get these NETS]
if things are close...the white superstar who plays for the big sports city gets the knod.....
3 straight years....which neither KAJ..nor Jordan ever did...[/QUOTE]
What's your point? Some people consider Bird better than both those players, so why wouldn't he deserve an accolade that they didn't get? Then again, you could consider them better but say that they weren't consistently - 3 years in a row, at least - the best in the NBA.
Your argument is just shambolic and embarrassing. Especially since you've brought up Mark McGwire into this as well. The thing to take away is that the MVP award is not the be-all and end-all.
[QUOTE=Kobe 4 The Win]In 1941 Joe Dimaggio won the regular season AL MVP award largely on the strength of his 56 game hitting streak. A legend for the ages and a season for the ages. Also in the 1941 season Ted Williams hit .406 and won the AL Triple Crown.
So because Dimaggio won the MVP then we can say with certainty that Dimaggio > Williams in 1941, right?
:biggums:[/QUOTE]
What's the comparison that you're making? Joe DiMaggio was either #1 or #2 in the game playing for the best team in the world that was a clear juggernaut at the time. Larry Bird was being already called the GOAT during his 3 year MVP run winning 2 titles and dominating the game. Are you comparing Magic to Ted Williams or something?
[QUOTE=get these NETS]speaking of Ted Williams..I'm not a baseball guy nor am I from boston but I read this story when I was a very young kid and never really respected sports reporters
Forget the details but ....Ted didn't get along with a reporter...and after a stellar,even for him..year...he either missed out on unanimous mvp or didn't get some award because the reporter left him off the ballot or didn't vot eofr him in the top 3 or something
really petty shit....even though Williams' numbers...and in baseball numbers do all of the talking....williams' number justified him being mvp?
maybe someone can clarify the real story but petty ass, childish reporter tried to screw Williams.[/QUOTE]
Thes douchebags play favorites and screw over players they don't like or get along with all the time. They usually favor the guys that kiss their asses. I f**king hate sportswriters. some of the lowest scum of society in my opinion.
Just to clarify Larry Bird did not kiss the ass of sportswriters. Quite the opposite. He ignored them and treated them with distain. Another reason why I love Larry Bird.
[QUOTE=nycelt84]What's the comparison that you're making? Joe DiMaggio was either #1 or #2 in the game playing for the best team in the world that was a clear juggernaut at the time. Larry Bird was being already called the GOAT during his 3 year MVP run winning 2 titles and dominating the game. Are you comparing Magic to Ted Williams or something?[/QUOTE]
What I'm pointing out is that people overrate the signifigance of regular season MVP awards. In any given year there could be 2, 3 or more guys that are worthy of winning the damn thing. Just because one guy wins it doesn't mean he is hands down the better player than the guys who didn't. It's an arbitrary award decided by petty douchbags.
Bird won 3 in a row from 84 to 86. Great.
Magic won 3 out of 4 from 87 to 90. So what?
[QUOTE=get these NETS]I think I did reply to you that in ANY given year...there are 2-3 players who could legitimately considered the MVP of the league..
if things are close..generally other criteria is used..such as best player on team with best record is going to win the award
Barkley could have gotten mvp one year that Magic got it...had phenomenal year but off court stuff and being outspoken kept CB from getting it..and Sixers record was bad
Kidd could have gotten it one year, but domestic issue doomed him and Duncan got it.
I think in any one of those years that there were 2 other players who had equal or close to equally phenomenal years....or who were the best players on teams with better records.
if things are close...the white superstar who plays for the big sports city gets the knod.....
3 straight years....which neither KAJ..nor Jordan ever did...[/QUOTE]
Trying to stay on topic here.
Yes. Sadly, race is always a factor.
However, it had far, far less to do with Bird winning three straight MVPs than the fact that he was simply the best player in the league during those three years.
Were you watching the NBA then? I would venture that most anyone who was at that time and paying attention would agree that Bird was the best player in the game.
You had said that during that period, the award could've gone to perhaps 2 or 3 other guys who also had great years, and I'm still waiting to hear who those guys might be.
King in '84? He came in second and it wasn't close.
Magic in '85? Bird had 73 first place votes and Magic had one.
And who, pray tell, would it have been in '86? Again, Bird had 73 votes, and Wilkins got 5.
Bird's accomplishments had permeated American sports so deeply that year that he was voted the AP athlete of the year -- unprecedented at the time for an NBA athlete and the only other player ever to do it since is Jordan.
Bird was superior to Magic every single year until he had that gruesome back injury. Magic just had better team accolades in certain years because....welll he had the better team. Kareem has a better case for being the GOAT than Magic does. I mean LOL. Magic forced his way to LA because he specifically wanted to play with Kareem, while Bird inherited a 29 win Celtics team and built them as a dynasty.
The 80s Lakers had more success than the 80s Celtics, but to say Magic was a better player is laughable for anyone that watched them both. During the 80s people were talking about Bird as the GOAT. Magic didn't get overrated until after Bird got hurt.
[QUOTE=MiamiThrice] During the 80s people were talking about Bird as the GOAT.[/quote]
They said the same about Magic as well and they said that even in the 90s.
Plus, I read a post about it earlier saying that the main reason why Bird may have gotten more GOAT recognition because most news and broadcasts were from the East coast which is to Bird's advantage. It doesn't mean he is better, it just means Bird was in a better situation to get more recognition.
[quote]Magic didn't get overrated until after Bird got hurt.[/QUOTE]
Magic didn't get overrated, Magic just got better and was utilized more for the Lakers. Magic's prime was from like '87-'90 whereas Bird's prime was '84-'86. Magic always did whatever it took to win. Earlier in his career, he set up his teammates a lot because he played on a great team and he won. Later in his career, he started having more responsibility with the scoring load because his teammates weren't that great anymore and they still won.
It's not Magic's fault that he happens to be very good at the game of basketball.
[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]
Plus, I read a post about it earlier saying that the main reason why Bird may have gotten more GOAT recognition because most news and broadcasts were from the East coast which is to Bird's advantage. It doesn't mean he is better, it just means Bird was in a better situation to get more recognition.
[/QUOTE]
Not buying it. They both got plenty of press.
Magic was in a bigger media market, and sought public attention far more than Bird did.
This has become tiresome. Bird had a slightly better peak. Magic won more championships and had better longevity.
Bird = Magic
/Thread
[QUOTE=LeBird]What's your point? Some people consider Bird better than both those players, so why wouldn't he deserve an accolade that they didn't get? Then again, you could consider them better but say that they weren't consistently - 3 years in a row, at least - the best in the NBA.
Your argument is just shambolic and embarrassing. Especially since you've brought up Mark McGwire into this as well. The thing to take away is that the MVP award is not the be-all and end-all.[/QUOTE]
I've never heard of sports fan who believes that Bird was a better player or had a better career than either KAJ or Jordan. I note that you're not even saying that..
highest rated ncaa finals ever...think highest rated college basketball game EVER...as in EVER..
and the Sycamores weren't shit before Bird..haven't been shit since..
why do you think that game drew such high ratings?