The difference between LeBron and Jordan..straight to the facts and past the Nikecoms

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]Scoring is the one area I will give to Jordan. He is the best scorer in NBA History at 30 PPG 50% shooting in the modern era. However versatality is overrated. It's all about production and I don't care how it comes, but as long as it comes. I'll take a dunk every play if I can get it.
[B]Its no more overrated than implying James is a better better due to defensive versatility. If the only thing that matters is impact, then fine, Jordan was a great defender. Youre contradicting yourself bro[/B]

When you compare Jordans scoring output(30 PPG on 50% shooting) to LeBrons (28 PPG on 49% shooting) they are closer than one would think. LeBrons size advantage(which translates to better rebounding and defensive ability) and the ability to make the game easier for guys more than makes up for Jordans 2 PPG and 1% shooting advantage.
[B]Thast not what the stats say. Check the stats of Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Wade and Bosh. With James and the previous season. [/B]


Jordan is definitely not a better team player than LeBron. When he retired(the first time) BJ Armstrong, Horace Grant, and Scottie Pippen all had career years and went on to make the all-star team. Nothing he does on the court makes the game easier for guys compared to a guy like LeBron. LeBron has the best vision and passing of a guy his size since Magic Johnson. All the veteran shooters want to come to Miami because they know their going to get open looks.
[B]Why dont you look at the 91 finals again. How many wide open jumpers did John Paxson get thanks to Jordan drawing his man away from him. And again who has James helped? Every player has had to sacrifice their game for James. Jordan changed his game for the good of the team[/B]

And finally guys enjoy playing with LeBron. Thats not true with Jordan. The dude was a prick and although respected by his teammates I bet a lot hated him as well. Pippen, Jordans most acclaimed teammate has gone on air multiple times saying LeBron is better. That tells you something.

The success for the Bulls goes to team personnel. The team was stacked and built to dominate. Is there any question Miami wouldn't be a better team if a 6'3 declining guard with no range in Wade is switched with Pippen(for his entire prime), a 6'8 swingman who is probably the best nonbig defender in NBA History on top of being a 20 PPG scorer. How about if Bosh, a piss poor rebounder and one on one defender is switched with a guy like Rodman, who ensures his team wins the rebounding battle every night?[/QUOTE]
So how does is this a blemish on Jordans career? Unlike James, his team won and won at a rate no team has ever been able to match. Even if you feel the Heat arent as stacked. That team HAD NOOOOOOO business losing to the Mavericks.

They had NOOOOOOOOOOO business coughing up that fourth quarter lead with 8 minutes to go. Jordan and his teams have never done that.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]1994 Pippen: 22.0 PPG 8.7 RPG 5.6 APG 49.0% shooting[/QUOTE]1994 Pippen: 22/9/6 on 49%/54 TS%
1992 Pippen: 21/8/7 on 51%/56 TS%

Then in the playoffs...

1994: 23/8/5 on 43%/52 TS%
1992: 20/9/7 on 47%/54 TS%

:confusedshrug:

This just proves my point, Pippen's efficiency dropped without Jordan. His FG%, eFG%, TS%, ORTG, APG all dropped playing without Jordan. Less open shots, more defensive pressure. He along with Kukoc, Woolridge, Grant, Paxson, etc. all had their most efficient seasons with Jordan.

[QUOTE=sportjames23]Difference between Lebron and Jordan?

2 < 6

Lebron = 2 for 4

Jordan = 6 for 6[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

First post in this thread was an attempt to insult the OP with an unfunny "did not read" post. You think he would live up to that post but what does he do? He proceeds to post in it with a point that has been beaten to death and diffused and backing it up with no substance.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you your typical Jordan stan

[QUOTE=Trentknicks]Interesting point you make about Jordan's Bulls getting dominated by the Shaq/Grant frontcourt.

If the Heat took 7 games to beat a West/Hibbert front court, how do you think they'd go against a trio of Penny/Grant/Shaq :roll:

dickhead[/QUOTE]

Exactly :applause:

The bigmen in Jordan's time: Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Karl Malone
Bigmen today: Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah :roll: :roll: :roll:

Of course you don't need a great defensive bigman when there is absolutely no bigman who can score more than 20 points other than Dwightbadfootwork Howard

[QUOTE]Because the Heat only had two starters from the team that won 47 games, and one of them was Carlos Arroyo.[/QUOTE]
But youre biggest argument for James is his ability to win on his own. Again, youre contradicting yourself.

[QUOTE=Segatti]Exactly :applause:

The bigmen in Jordan's time: Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Karl Malone
Bigmen today: Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah :roll: :roll: :roll:

Of course you don't need a great defensive bigman when there is absolutely no bigman who can score more than 20 points other than Dwightbadfootwork Howard[/QUOTE]
Exactly.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]
[I]Its no more overrated than implying James is a better better due to defensive versatility. If the only thing that matters is impact, then fine, Jordan was a great defender. Youre contradicting yourself bro[/I]

[I]"Thast not what the stats say. Check the stats of Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Wade and Bosh. With James and the previous season. "[/I]

[I]
Why dont you look at the 91 finals again. How many wide open jumpers did John Paxson get thanks to Jordan drawing his man away from him. And again who has James helped? Every player has had to sacrifice their game for James. Jordan changed his game for the good of the team[/I]

[/QUOTE]

Defensive versatility helps the team no matter what since LeBron is capable of guarding anyone at any position at a high level(aside from 7 footers). Jordan didn't possess the ability to guard bigs or even points like LeBron can. If his team didn't have the personnel to deal with that(scottie and dennis) they'd be in trouble. Luckily he never ran into this issue.

Players put up less stats in lesser roles....all of which those players were in with LeBron.

LeBron is a better passer and facilitator than Jordan....dont see how your going to argue this. Jordan looks for his shot first, the only one he makes better is himself. LeBron on the other hand looks for his teammates shot first. And he still puts up nearly as many points as Jordan despite that.

[QUOTE=Young X]1994 Pippen: 22/9/6 on 49%/54 TS%
1992 Pippen: 21/8/7 on 51%/56 TS%

Then in the playoffs...

1994: 23/8/5 on 43%/52 TS%
1992: 20/9/7 on 47%/54 TS%

:confusedshrug:

This just proves my point, Pippen's efficiency dropped without Jordan. His FG%, eFG%, TS%, ORTG, APG all dropped playing without Jordan. Less open shots, more defensive pressure. He along with Kukoc, Woolridge, Grant, Paxson, etc. all had their most efficient seasons with Jordan.[/QUOTE]

If we are looking at strictly shooting percentages, both Wade and Bosh posted career highs in their field goal percentages this past year so this isn't going anywhere.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]But youre biggest argument for James is his ability to win on his own. Again, youre contradicting yourself.[/QUOTE]

How is that contradicting? Look up what the word means.

The fact is you put current LeBron on ANY team in the league regardless of their roster and their a contender. Thats part of why the Decision was so hyped. Very few players in the history of the league can change a franchise like LeBron.

You will never see prime LeBron lose in the first round regardless of who is on his team.

Bulls
94: 55-27
95: 47-35
96: 72-10
97: 69-13
98: 62-20

Miami prior to Lebron
47-35

Miami post Lebron
58-24
46-20
66-16

I don't even know why Tony Montana brought up the Cavs. That team was in full tank mode in 2011 so obviously they weren't going to be a competitive.

The more Tony Montana posts in this thread the more you realize he never saw Jordan play other than some youtube highlights

LeBron is a better player than Jordan ever was.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]If we are looking at strictly shooting percentages, both Wade and Bosh posted career highs in their field goal percentages this past year so this isn't going anywhere.[/QUOTE]That and assists are all we should be looking at. WTF does rebounding have to do with Jordan not making life easier for his teammates offensively? Numerous players have benefited from Lebron AND Jordan drawing attention away from them and getting them easy shots - the shooting %'s and efficiency support that.

You need to understand that Jordan wasn't just a scorer, he was just as much of an all around player that Lebron is. He has like 4 seasons averaging 6+ assists, averaged 6-7 rebounds for his whole career, etc.

[QUOTE=Young X]That and assists are all we should be looking at. WTF does rebounding have to do with Jordan not making life easier for his teammates offensively? Numerous players have benefited from Lebron AND Jordan drawing attention away from them and getting them easy shots - the shooting %'s and efficiency support that.

You need to understand that Jordan wasn't just a scorer, he was just as much of an all around player that Lebron is. [B]He has like 4 seasons averaging 6+ assists,[/B] averaged 6-7 rebounds for his whole career, etc.[/QUOTE]In a system (triangle) that assists are hard to come by

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]Defensive versatility helps the team no matter what since LeBron is capable of guarding anyone at any position at a high level(aside from 7 footers). Jordan didn't possess the ability to guard bigs or even points like LeBron can. If his team didn't have the personnel to deal with that(scottie and dennis) they'd be in trouble. Luckily he never ran into this issue.
[B]Then why didnt he stop Jason Terry? And mind you, this after Terry stated James couldnt stop him.[/B]

Players put up less stats in lesser roles....all of which those players were in with LeBron.
[B]Ok. But these players games have had to change. Bosh has been relegated to being jumpshooter almost exclusively. What has James had to sacrifice? [/B]


LeBron is a better passer and facilitator than Jordan....dont see how your going to argue this. Jordan looks for his shot first, the only one he makes better is himself. LeBron on the other hand looks for his teammates shot first. And he still puts up nearly as many points as Jordan despite that.
[B]Jordan did the same thing as James. Remember the year he avg 32/8/8? [/B]

If we are looking at strictly shooting percentages, both Wade and Bosh posted career highs in their field goal percentages this past year so this isn't going anywhere.
[B]OK, but were not. As a whole, James teammates game has to suffer because he dominates the ball. [/B]

How is that contradicting? Look up what the word means.
[B][/B]

The fact is you put current LeBron on ANY team in the league regardless of their roster and their a contender. Thats part of why the Decision was so hyped. Very few players in the history of the league can change a franchise like LeBron.
[B]Semantic Tony. [/B]
You will never see prime LeBron lose in the first round regardless of who is on his team.[/QUOTE]
And we NEVER saw Jordan lose to team his team was favored against
Advantage Jordan.

jordan fans/stans vs. lebron fans/stans. the good thing about the jordan folks is that they don't circle jerk each other.

jordan is labeled goat not only because of his stats, achievements, and awards; but because of what he actually did on the court. watch the games - it's not rocket science. he doesn't flop. he doesn't disappear when his team is down and then reappear when they're up. he didn't jump ship and play alongside zeke and joe. you can split hairs any way you want to, but the big picture says otherwise.

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]Bulls
94: 55-27
95: 47-35
96: 72-10
97: 69-13
98: 62-20

Miami prior to Lebron
47-35

Miami post Lebron
58-24
46-20
66-16

I don't even know why Tony Montana brought up the Cavs. That team was in full tank mode in 2011 so obviously they weren't going to be a competitive.[/QUOTE]
Even if you look at the 95 season. The Bulls were winning roughly 53% of their games. When Jordan shows up they jump to 76%