Discussing the Bulls chances of beating the Heat in a 7 game series

[QUOTE=poido123]LOL at there only being 2 good instances of good man to man defense in this video. :oldlol:

You watch games with a totally different view of everyone else Plowking.

Butler manned Lebron up and contested at least 75% of all those defensive sequences and that's being generous. Excellent example of how to defend a tough opponent like Lebron.

I'd love for you to post a link of Lebron playing defense on Rose in 2011. Then we can compare the two :pimp:[/QUOTE]

I don't, I'm using your definition you gave me in the other thread. And going by that, this isn't great man defense.
My own opinion, based on my own definition was that it was as good a job as most people do on Lebron.

I can't find a video, but it'd be the exact same thing, except without great defensive bigs. Then I'd be told how its somehow different by you, and Lebron is using help defense. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=plowking]:oldlol:

Its actually hilarious you can claim that.

Taj Gibson in most of the plays completely ignores his player and watches Lebron the whole time. At all times there is a 2 man hedge on the side Lebron is on. :oldlol:

[B]Its funny you think this is a better example of great defense compared to Lebron on Rose. Lebron didn't have big guys hedging over for him like Butler did. He worked his ass off to keep Rose on the perimeter.[/B][/QUOTE]


I want to see video evidence and prove it. I'd really like to see what you come up with and how you explain Lebron defending Rose better :oldlol:

[QUOTE=plowking]I don't, I'm using your definition you gave me in the other thread. And going by that, this isn't great man defense.
My own opinion, based on my own definition was that it was as good a job as most people do on Lebron.

[B]I can't find a video, but it'd be the exact same thing, except without great defensive bigs. Then I'd be told how its somehow different by you, and Lebron is using help defense[/B]. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]


Well it would be, the style of the defense and the tactics would be different and I'm sure of it. :confusedshrug:

Anyways, look like we are heading for a stalemate, you see it one way, I see it another. Happens alot on message boards :lol

Shaking my heads at the posters who are trying to discredit Jimmy Butlers defense on LBJ by saying the Bulls' bigs are also focusing on him.. What the hell do you expect lmao, this is the best player in the world we're talking about, of course they use their entire team to defend him. :lol That doesn't take anything away from the amazing job Butler did on James in the playoffs.

[QUOTE=TheReturn]Shaking my heads at the posters who are trying to discredit Jimmy Butlers defense on LBJ by saying the Bulls' bigs are also focusing on him.. What the hell do you expect lmao, this is the best player in the world we're talking about, of course they use their entire team to defend him. :lol That doesn't take anything away from the amazing job Butler did on James in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]


I rarely saw the bigs actually trap or double team Lebron? Sure they were aware of Lebron at all times, but they fully trusted Butler to do the job on him, which the video showed how often Butler was left to defend Lebron on his own... :confusedshrug:

We have a puncher's chance....I really think we are one scorer away.

[QUOTE=TheReturn]Shaking my heads at the posters who are trying to discredit Jimmy Butlers defense on LBJ by saying the Bulls' bigs are also focusing on him.. What the hell do you expect lmao, this is the best player in the world we're talking about, of course they use their entire team to defend him. :lol That doesn't take anything away from the amazing job Butler did on James in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

But when Lebron does it to Rose, its not considered great man defense on here.

Just trying to get consistency, and some posters refuse to give it. Reason why? They know they can harp on about Lebron's man defense never being good enough because it can't be statistically measured in a sure fire, 100% proof type of way.

Saying that, they love to throw out excuses as to why Lebron keeps shutting down player after player thats put in front of him.
Rose? Team defense.
Parker? He became injured as soon as Lebron was put on him. Ignore him tearing up the Heat prior to that in the game.
Melo? Bad shooting streak, coincidence.

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=poido123]I rarely saw the bigs actually trap or double team Lebron? Sure they were aware of Lebron at all times, but they fully trusted Butler to do the job on him, which the video showed how often Butler was left to defend Lebron on his own... :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Nah I agree, they let Jimmy play him 1 on 1 99% of the time, but I mean when he drove it they'd help and contest, which seems pretty logical. That's my point. :cheers:

[QUOTE=plowking]But when Lebron does it to Rose, its not considered great man defense on here.

Just trying to get consistency, and some posters refuse to give it. Reason why? They know they can harp on about Lebron's man defense never being good enough because it can't be statistically measured in a sure fire, 100% proof type of way.

Saying that, they love to throw out excuses as to why Lebron keeps shutting down player after player thats put in front of him.
Rose? Team defense.
Parker? He became injured as soon as Lebron was put on him. Ignore him tearing up the Heat prior to that in the game.
Melo? Bad shooting streak, coincidence.

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I'm not the one you're arguing here, but to me - being a big Bulls fan - Lebron's ability to guard players like Rose and Parker in the clutch is nothing short of amazing.

[QUOTE=plowking]But when Lebron does it to Rose, its not considered great man defense on here.

Just trying to get consistency, and some posters refuse to give it. Reason why? They know they can harp on about Lebron's man defense never being good enough because it can't be statistically measured in a sure fire, 100% proof type of way.

Saying that, they love to throw out excuses as to why Lebron keeps shutting down player after player thats put in front of him.
Rose? Team defense.
Parker? He became injured as soon as Lebron was put on him. Ignore him tearing up the Heat prior to that in the game.
Melo? Bad shooting streak, coincidence.

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]


People with no bias on this matter have said Lebron is not a good man defender.

You crack me up because you see shit that nobody else is seeing :lol :oldlol:

Anyone here can go back a few pages and read the part where I provided "consistency" in my opinion. Or at least draw an objective POV on Lebron's defense, instead of just hating him.

[QUOTE=poido123][B]People with no bias on this matter have said Lebron is not a good man defender. [/B]

You crack me up because you see shit that nobody else is seeing :lol :oldlol:

Anyone here can go back a few pages and read the part where I provided "consistency" in my opinion. Or at least draw an objective POV on Lebron's defense, instead of just hating him.[/QUOTE]
Who are these people with no bias? Nick Young? Bladers? Kennethgriffin? You?

:roll:

[QUOTE=poido123]People with no bias on this matter have said Lebron is not a good man defender.

You crack me up because you see shit that nobody else is seeing :lol :oldlol:

Anyone here can go back a few pages and read the part where I provided "consistency" in my opinion. Or at least draw an objective POV on Lebron's defense, instead of just hating him.[/QUOTE]

People with no bias. You're on insidehoops...

Lebron is a great man to man defender, and probably the best in the league.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TtcGaUXQY[/url]

Here is a video of game 5. Look at every shot Rose takes on Lebron. Where are the traps you talk about? At one point he has the whole left side cleared out for him, and hes too scared to drive on Bron, calls for a screen. Look at the time he scored on Lebron. No help given to Lebron by his team on the drive, yet he plays great defense, Rose happens to score. Great shot.

Lebron is getting less help here than Butler is. :oldlol: And you were acting like there were walls set up to stop Rose. :oldlol:

EDIT: Look at the play Rose draws a foul on and gets free throws. Had a clear out, couldn't get passed Lebron, and gets a generous call from the officials. Once again, great D by Lebron.

[QUOTE=TheReturn]I'm not the one you're arguing here, but to me - being a big Bulls fan - Lebron's ability to guard players like Rose and Parker in the clutch is nothing short of amazing.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.

But what myself and Plowking are arguing here is the concept of what is man defense, how Butler played Lebron, and how Lebron played Rose in 2011.

I tryed to make a point about Butler's man defense on Lebron is a better representation than the myth Heat fans throw around alot about how Lebron shut rose down with man defense when it wasn't.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Who are these people with no bias? Nick Young? Bladers? Kennethgriffin? You?

:roll:[/QUOTE]
I think he means only himself:lol

In my opinion, it is a little different, yeah. When the Heat shut down Rose, it was a different in the sense that they forced the ball out of his hands by trapping him every chance they got. That's actually the opposite of what the Bulls were doing with Jimmy's D on Lebron.

That doesn't take anything away from eithers defensively capabilities, it's just a strategic difference and both of them make sense if you ask me. Rose's teammates at the time didn't get the job done offensively, so it made sense to have them beat you, rather than Rose. With Lebron's passing ability if you can sort of control him without doubling, that's probably your best option in beating Miami in my opinion.

I feel like I'm stating the obvious though, does anyone actually disagree here?