Dunking Data For 1988-1993: MJ is the Goat In-Game Dunker for Wing Players

[quote=DonDadda59]Buh buh buh... dat advanced defense :confusedshrug:

Why was there such a weird jump in '98?[/quote]
Probably the addition of the no charge circle, and (another) change to the hand check rule.


[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/29/sports/nba-preview-97-98-five-new-rules-are-likely-to-give-pros-a-face-lift.html"]http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/29/sports/nba-preview-97-98-five-new-rules-are-likely-to-give-pros-a-face-lift.html[/URL]

[I]October 29, 1997

[/I] [I]Blame Pat Riley's no-layup rule that forbids players passage to the basket. Or Charles Oakley's massive forearms that stop penetrating point guards in their tracks. Or point your finger at a bunch of unimaginative offenses that seem to generate points.[/I]

[I]Five rule changes instituted by the league's competition committee this season are the most significant since the restriction of hand-checking by defensive players before the 1994-95 season -- another rule that had much do with those naughty, naughty tactics of Riley and the Knicks.[/I]

[I]''Basically, we're trying to encourage more driving to the basket,'' said Rod Thorn, the National Basketball Association's vice president of operations.[/I]

[I] ''Our hope is that teams will get a few more shot opportunities or draw a foul, whatever the case may be. We'd like to force some people to develop a medium-range game.''[/I]

[I]Teams averaged slightly more than 79 shots a game last season, a figure Thorn would like to see increase by at least a few shots. The league's two-highest scoring teams, Utah and Chicago, met in the N.B.A. finals this past June. But neither the Bulls nor the Jazz managed to crack the 100-point barrier in a six-game series.[/I]

[B][I]The rule changes:[/I][/B]

[I]*Moving back the 3-point line, which was 22 feet from the basket the last three seasons. It will be lengthened to its original distance of 23 feet 9 inches, except in the corners, where the distance will remain 22 feet.[/I]

[I]*A defender will not be permitted to use his forearm to impede the progress of an offensive player who is facing the basket in the frontcourt.[/I]

[I]*A player may not call a timeout if both of his feet are in the air and any part of his body has broken the vertical plane of the sideline or baseline.[/I]

[I]*The illegal-defense rule in which two defenders had to be at the foul line while guarding players uninvolved in the offense far out on the perimeter has been eliminated. One of the defenders will be allowed to go outside the lane, if the defender so chooses. This discourages teams from effectively removing two players from the action.[/I]

[I]*A no-charge area near the basket will be expanded. The area, in which an offensive foul is not called if contact is made with a secondary defensive player who has established a defensive position, will be the area consisting of a half circle with a four-foot radius measured from the middle of the goal. Five hashmarks on the floor this season will mark the area to better help officials.[/I]

[QUOTE=3ball]The bolded above is wrong.


Year[COLOR="White"]....... [/COLOR] Shots[COLOR="White"]........ [/COLOR]Dunks[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Shots Per Dunk

1988..... 165,439..... 5,727..... 28.89
1989..... 182,375..... 6,475..... 28.17
1990..... 192,942..... 7,011..... 27.52
1991..... 193,050..... 7,241..... 26.66
1992..... 193,401..... 8,122..... 23.81
1993..... 190,296..... 8,252..... 23.06
1994..... 186,948..... 8,515..... 21.96
1995..... 180,414..... 8,645..... 20.87
1996..... 190,675..... 8,468..... 22.52
1997..... 188,587..... 8,460..... 22.29
1998..... 189,544..... 9,318..... 20.34
1999..... 113,390..... 4,681..... 24.22
2000..... 195,228..... 8,325..... 23.45
2001..... 191,661..... 7,319..... 26.19
2002..... 193,256..... 8,439..... 22.90
2003..... 192,096..... 8,265..... 23.24
2004..... 189,805..... 8,120..... 23.38
2005..... 197,640..... 9,150..... 21.60
[B]2006..... 194,310..... 8,640..... 22.49
2007..... 196,080..... 8,310..... 23.60
2008..... 200,490..... 9,270..... 21.63
2009..... 199,050..... 9,360..... 21.27
2010..... 201,000..... 8,790..... 22.87
2011......199,800..... 8,910..... 22.42
2012..... 161,220..... 7,320..... 22.02
2013..... 201,600..... 9,540..... 21.13
2014..... 204,180..... 9,030..... 22.61[/B]


So it was harder to dunk in Jordan's day, for all the reasons mentioned (no spacing, no defensive 3 seconds, more physical defense, real bigs, better shot contestion, etc, etc, etc).
.[/QUOTE]
Just wondering, where'd you find the totals for 06-14? I can't seem to find them online.

[QUOTE=PHILA]Probably the addition of the no charge circle, and (another) change to the hand check rule.


[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/29/sports/nba-preview-97-98-five-new-rules-are-likely-to-give-pros-a-face-lift.html"]http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/29/sports/nba-preview-97-98-five-new-rules-are-likely-to-give-pros-a-face-lift.html[/URL]

[I]October 29, 1997

[/I] [I]Blame Pat Riley's no-layup rule that forbids players passage to the basket. Or Charles Oakley's massive forearms that stop penetrating point guards in their tracks. Or point your finger at a bunch of unimaginative offenses that seem to generate points.[/I]

[I]Five rule changes instituted by the league's competition committee this season are the most significant since the restriction of hand-checking by defensive players before the 1994-95 season -- another rule that had much do with those naughty, naughty tactics of Riley and the Knicks.[/I]

[I]''Basically, we're trying to encourage more driving to the basket,'' said Rod Thorn, the National Basketball Association's vice president of operations.[/I]

[I] ''Our hope is that teams will get a few more shot opportunities or draw a foul, whatever the case may be. We'd like to force some people to develop a medium-range game.''[/I]

[I]Teams averaged slightly more than 79 shots a game last season, a figure Thorn would like to see increase by at least a few shots. The league's two-highest scoring teams, Utah and Chicago, met in the N.B.A. finals this past June. But neither the Bulls nor the Jazz managed to crack the 100-point barrier in a six-game series.[/I]

[B][I]The rule changes:[/I][/B]

[I]*Moving back the 3-point line, which was 22 feet from the basket the last three seasons. It will be lengthened to its original distance of 23 feet 9 inches, except in the corners, where the distance will remain 22 feet.[/I]

[I]*A defender will not be permitted to use his forearm to impede the progress of an offensive player who is facing the basket in the frontcourt.[/I]

[I]*A player may not call a timeout if both of his feet are in the air and any part of his body has broken the vertical plane of the sideline or baseline.[/I]

[I]*The illegal-defense rule in which two defenders had to be at the foul line while guarding players uninvolved in the offense far out on the perimeter has been eliminated. One of the defenders will be allowed to go outside the lane, if the defender so chooses. This discourages teams from effectively removing two players from the action.[/I]

[I]*A no-charge area near the basket will be expanded. The area, in which an offensive foul is not called if contact is made with a secondary defensive player who has established a defensive position, will be the area consisting of a half circle with a four-foot radius measured from the middle of the goal. Five hashmarks on the floor this season will mark the area to better help officials.[/I][/QUOTE]

That was quick :applause:

Amazing how a few tweaks here and there in the rule book can drastically change the game.

[QUOTE=fpliii]Just wondering, where'd you find the totals for 06-14? I can't seem to find them online.[/QUOTE]
This data is available on the Season Summary page that bballref does for each season....

Here is 2014's Season Summary Page - [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014.html[/url]

To get total shot attempts, scroll down to Team Stats and look at the 4th column for FGA and go all the way to the bottom - you will see that the league-average for a team's Total FGA was 6806.... Multiply this number by the number of teams (30) and you get 204,180 shot attempts for the entire league in 2014..

To get the number of dunks, scroll down to Team Shooting... Go to 2-pt field goal section and look at the Made Dunk stats... Scroll to the bottom to get the average total dunks for a team on the season... Multiply this by number of teams to get total dunks for the league on the season.

Divide Total Shot Attempts by Total Dunks.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Buh buh buh... dat advanced defense :confusedshrug:
[/QUOTE]
The data shows how Jordan got more dunks each season than Durant/Lebron/Wade... and did so at a time when dunks were quite a bit harder to come by league-wide.

For example, in 1988, Jordan got 158 dunks when dunks were gotten 1 in every 28.89 shots.

In 2013, Lebron got his career-high of 144 dunks... dunks were gotten 1 in every 21.16 shot in 2013.

[QUOTE=Rake2204]If I knew where my 92-93 Fleer Ultra Jam Session cards were I could help you guys out with the 1991-92 dunk stats. Instead, I only recall that David Robinson was #1 that year, though I don't know if that was total dunks or dunks per game.

[img]http://www.deanscards.com/images/products/basketball/1992-93FleerUltra/92-93FUltra201.jpg[/img]

Jordan's:

[img]http://listia.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4ca8b3e8f71d3b464e64/medium.png[/img][/QUOTE]


I'm such a f***** loser - but I still have both of those cards.

David Robinson had 155 dunks in the 91-92 season for a rank of #1

MJ had 98 dunks that season for a rank of #16

It just gives you the rankings for that specific player on the card, the they cite the 76ers media guide as well.

[QUOTE=3ball]This data is available on the Season Summary page that bballref does for each season....

Here is 2014's Season Summary Page - [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014.html[/url]

Scroll down to Team Stats and look at the 4th column for FGA and go all the way to the bottom - you will see that the league-average for a team's Total FGA for the season was 6806.... Multiply this number by the number of teams (30) and you get 204,180 shot attempts for the entire league..

Scroll down to Team Shooting... Go to 2-pt field goal section and look at the Made Dunk stats... Scroll to the bottom to get the average total dunks for a team on the season... Multiply this by number of teams to get total dunks for the league on the season.

Divide Total Shot Attempts by Total Dunks.[/QUOTE]
Thanks.

I actually found this after looking:

[url]www.nba.com/sixers/misc/2010_pollack_stats_.html[/url]

and filled in the missing years from basketball-reference.com (it seems there are slight difference, of a handful from your totals, so I think both are good):

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014.html[/url]

using the "Team Shooting" table. 2007 seemed to be a mistake (he had 5191), so I double checked, and corrected it.

Here's my data, I tried looking at it in a few ways:

[CODE]Year GP Pace FGA 3PA Dunks Dks/GP Poss/Dk FGA/Dk 2PA/Dk
1988 943 99.6 87.7 5.0 5757 6.1 32.6 28.7 27.1
1989 1025 100.6 89.0 6.6 6475 6.3 31.9 28.2 26.1
1990 1107 98.3 87.2 6.6 7011 6.3 31.0 27.5 25.5
1991 1107 97.8 87.2 7.1 7241 6.5 29.9 26.7 24.5
1992 1107 96.6 87.3 7.6 8122 7.3 26.3 23.8 21.7
1993 1107 96.8 86.0 9.0 8252 7.5 26.0 23.1 20.7
1994 1107 95.1 84.4 9.9 8515 7.7 24.7 21.9 19.4
1995 1107 92.9 81.5 15.3 8645 7.8 23.8 20.9 17.0
1996 1189 91.8 80.2 16.0 8468 7.1 25.8 22.5 18.0
1997 1189 90.1 79.3 16.8 8460 7.1 25.3 22.3 17.6
1998 1189 90.3 79.7 12.7 9318 7.8 23.0 20.3 17.1
1999 725 88.9 78.2 13.2 4681 6.5 27.5 24.2 20.1
2000 1189 93.1 82.1 13.7 8325 7.0 26.6 23.5 19.5
2001 1189 91.3 80.6 13.7 7319 6.2 29.7 26.2 21.7
2002 1189 90.7 81.3 14.7 8446 7.1 25.5 22.9 18.8
2003 1189 91.0 80.8 14.7 8248 6.9 26.2 23.3 19.1
2004 1189 90.1 79.8 14.9 8146 6.9 26.3 23.3 18.9
2005 1230 90.9 80.3 15.8 9150 7.4 24.4 21.6 17.3
2006 1230 90.5 79.0 16.0 8633 7.0 25.8 22.5 18.0
2007 1230 91.9 79.7 16.9 8321 6.8 27.2 23.6 18.6
2008 1230 92.4 81.5 18.1 9261 7.5 24.5 21.6 16.8
2009 1230 91.7 80.9 18.1 9362 7.6 24.1 21.3 16.5
2010 1230 92.7 81.7 18.1 8785 7.1 26.0 22.9 17.8
2011 1230 92.1 81.2 18.0 8906 7.2 25.4 22.4 17.5
2012 990 91.3 81.4 18.4 7324 7.4 24.7 22.0 17.0
2013 1229 92.0 82.0 20.0 9325 7.6 24.3 21.6 16.3
2014 1230 93.9 83.0 21.5 9035 7.3 25.6 22.6 16.7[/CODE]

Dunking was clearly a lot harder to come by in the early 90's and before.

The rule changes in the mid-90's helped free things up to make dunking easier and that period also coincided with the largest ever increase in 3-point attempts (attempts more than doubled from 1991 to 1995).

That's one of the reasons the data is important - it shows that in the late 80's/early 90's, guys like Jordan, Pippen, Wilkins and Drexler were dunking more than Durant, Lebron and Wade, even though dunks occurred league-wide 30% to 50% less often.

For example, in 1988, Jordan got 158 dunks when dunks were completed league-wide once in every 28.89 shots.

In 2013, Lebron got his career-high of 144 dunks... but it was a lot easier to dunk - dunks were completed once in every 21.16 shots in 2013.
[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR]

-
So Jordan dunked more than Durant, Lebron and Wade, and over defenders much more often, even though dunks were completed league-wide 30% to 50% less often back then.

Here's 10 dunks that only Jordan could do, because only Jordan could take off in that specific way while still achieving max hops and only Jordan had the optimal physique to thread the needle and fit amongst the congestion... notice high intensity/quick action upon the catch.


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/06f7330ce5244086308a42cb6a329d86.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/904685036819733412f8b35f112c5c51.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Pervis_Ellison_7e3ceb9e87bef60abe4a04107afa5fa4.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/More_goat_post_skill_from_Jord_f708e90cb052583360ba0c6aa56637ac.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_HopStep_Poster_on_80238d01ed987cdc607f1ff84f8f070f.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/d6de618b81d74a092b4159e118cad7b6.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/e7b3ea39c8b2c525b04e16498c70c30a.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Over_Rony_Seikaly_best_7eaa9998a5618610963252b80d69182b.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/ebf928d9aec8d9349ef10cda4c3d8a56.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/e42ebcf0e3db621e383f0d54c1fca308.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=nnn123]I'm such a f***** loser - but I still have both of those cards.

David Robinson had 155 dunks in the 91-92 season for a rank of #1

MJ had 98 dunks that season for a rank of #16

It just gives you the rankings for that specific player on the card, the they cite the 76ers media guide as well.[/QUOTE]That's awesome! Good stuff. I remember the Shawn Kemp one too. There was a quote on the back about how his dunks on the street made sparks come off the chain nets.

[QUOTE=3ball]Dunking was clearly a lot harder to come by in the early 90's and before.

[/QUOTE]

You're delusional. Mandatory man to man defense where you can isolate one guy on the strong side of the floor, higher frequency of fast breaks, and lesser emphasis on defense all say otherwise.

It's not rocket science. You think the Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Don Nelson's Dirk and Nash Mavs because it was so much harder to score?

[QUOTE=3ball]-
So Jordan dunked more than Durant, Lebron and Wade, and over defenders much more often, even though dunks were completed 30% to 50% less often league-wide back then.

Here's 10 dunks that only Jordan could do, because only Jordan could take off in that specific way while still achieving max hops and only Jordan had the optimal physique to thread the needle and fit amongst the congestion... notice high intensity/quick action upon the catch.


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/06f7330ce5244086308a42cb6a329d86.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/904685036819733412f8b35f112c5c51.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Pervis_Ellison_7e3ceb9e87bef60abe4a04107afa5fa4.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/More_goat_post_skill_from_Jord_f708e90cb052583360ba0c6aa56637ac.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_HopStep_Poster_on_80238d01ed987cdc607f1ff84f8f070f.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/d6de618b81d74a092b4159e118cad7b6.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/e7b3ea39c8b2c525b04e16498c70c30a.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Over_Rony_Seikaly_best_7eaa9998a5618610963252b80d69182b.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/ebf928d9aec8d9349ef10cda4c3d8a56.gif[/img]


[img]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/e42ebcf0e3db621e383f0d54c1fca308.gif[/img][/QUOTE]

Every one of these where he starts from a standstill is a travel....dude moves both feet before dropping the ball for the dribble.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]You're delusional. Mandatory man to man defense where you can isolate one guy on the strong side of the floor, higher frequency of fast breaks, and lesser emphasis on defense all say otherwise.
[B]
It's not rocket science. You think the Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Don Nelson's Dirk and Nash Mavs because it was so much harder to sc[/B]ore?[/QUOTE]

Read the bolded. Over and over again.

All you do is post threads sucking Jordan's wang so...I'm not expecting a lot of common sense.

[quote]It's not rocket science. You think the Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Don Nelson's Dirk and Nash Mavs because it was so much harder to score?[/quote]
You cannot ignore pace. In the early 2000's there were some great defensive teams, but also a lot of bad offense. 2004 in particular was an ugly year for the NBA in terms of offense.

[B]1999-2004 Mavericks DRtg:[/B] 105.4
[B]1999-2004 League Average:[/B] 103.4

Mavericks defensively were 2 points worse than the average NBA team.


[B]1987-1991 Pistons DRtg:[/B] 104.8
[B]1987-1991 League Average:[/B] 108.0

Pistons defensively were 3.2 points better than the average NBA team.

Only Jordan could have done those dunks because he's the only one with those type of moves in tight quarters (you don't see russell westbrook or james harden doing anything like that... it 's a whole different level or dimension that they don't have).

and only he had the physique to even fit into those tight spots.