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[QUOTE=Akrazotile]I guess it all depends. For me, having a group discussion with a classroom full of people like you everyday would not be worth 5-10k a year, as it would actually reduce my intellect.
But hey man, pay whatever you want for group discussion. Or rather, whatever they want. It's your dime.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/bsflag.gif[/IMG]
its not all that
[QUOTE=niko]It's stupid, the reason there aren't more male nude pictures is they couldn't find them. Especially if they were sexually explicit. A LIst male actor trumps C list female idol easily in terms of attention. Me just don't send those type of pictures or keep them on their phone. Plus these are all young girls, they are sending the pictures, men again don't do that.[/QUOTE]
Yeahh I have to agree that you just can't see A list male celebrities being that stupid. If di Caprio or Depp or someone got caught then there would be as much exposure, even if there wouldn't be hundreds of articles defending men's right to privacy.
[QUOTE]All these people talking about how looking at leaked pictures should qualify as sexual molestation. I wonder how many of them looked at Anthony Weiner's leaked pictures and leaked text messages and criticized him for it, and if they consider themselves sex offenders now?[/QUOTE]
Yep, all these women objecting will no doubt have seen the photos too.
"We don't objectify men"
Magic Mike: $113 million dollar gross
[QUOTE=LJJ]The leaks are really bringing out the SJW's and feminazi's.
All these people talking about how looking at leaked pictures should qualify as sexual molestation. I wonder how many of them looked at Anthony Weiner's leaked pictures and leaked text messages and criticized him for it, and if they consider themselves sex offenders now?[/QUOTE]
Why don't they say this when Vanessa Hudgens and Rihanna pics got leaked? Is it only because they love Jennifer Lawrence?
I smell some more hypocrisies in the air
[QUOTE]You learn ho to think critically by having problems put in front of you, and solving them. That is why apprenticeships are more useful then university educations. In apprenticeships you actually DO THINGS. In university, you just learn the theory in how to do things, WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING THINGS.
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this is spot on btw, your problem is you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. the theory IS important and the evidence for that is everywhere around you.
[QUOTE=RidonKs]this is spot on btw, your problem is you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. the theory IS important and the evidence for that is everywhere around you.[/QUOTE]
In apprenticeships you learn THEORY and GAIN EXPERIENCE. Uni is just theory in most cases.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]In apprenticeships you learn THEORY and GAIN EXPERIENCE. Uni is just theory in most cases.[/QUOTE]
name an apprenticeship as an example and let's take a look at it
i think we probably agree on a common definition of "GAIN EXPERIENCE". what we disagree on is a common definition/understanding of "THEORY".
if i get hooked up as an intern in a big financial institution, a small law firm, a mechanics garage, any small business whatsoever... i will gain crucial experience in the real world. but if i haven't already begun to explore the academic humanities and spent some time interacting with people and discussing the nature of our society, i think i would lose out on important understanding.
of course it's true that i can much more easily be a success in the real world ie. make a living out of an apprenticeship than i can make a living out of an anthropology degree. and in fact if during this apprenticeship i build a real bond with my master/advisor that can blossom and bear fruit over many years, well that's almost definitely going to be far more valuable than whatever relationship i manage to build with my favourite professor who has a few dozen others pursuing the same thing under his expertise.
but what you continue to miss is the value of the principle of higher education; a free exchange of ideas in a formal setting. universities everywhere fall short of that ideal in many ways obviously but it doesn't mean we can't approximate it going forward.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]In apprenticeships you learn THEORY and GAIN EXPERIENCE. Uni is just theory in most cases.[/QUOTE]
We went through this before, there are a lot of jobs where the complexity is such that you need to understand a lot of underlying information, not just "do it and learn it". You also need to learn to do the type of critical thinking required to understand those complexities.
We always had interns at work, the difference between a first year and a fourth year is the first year is doing things rote as you tell them and a fourth year knows why they are doing it. For really basic work rote is fine, for things more complex, you need the underlying theory. And let me tell you, there is no time for the master to sit and give his apprentice actual classes in theory.
I'm assuming whatever you do is simplistic to the point it can be learned on the fly because that's how you see the world.
[QUOTE=RidonKs]name an apprenticeship as an example and let's take a look at it
i think we probably agree on a common definition of "GAIN EXPERIENCE". what we disagree on is a common definition/understanding of "THEORY".
if i get hooked up as an intern in a big financial institution, a small law firm, a mechanics garage, any small business whatsoever... i will gain crucial experience in the real world. but if i haven't already begun to explore the academic humanities and spent some time interacting with people and discussing the nature of our society, i think i would lose out on important understanding.
of course it's true that i can much more easily be a success in the real world ie. make a living out of an apprenticeship than i can make a living out of an anthropology degree. and in fact if during this apprenticeship i build a real bond with my master/advisor that can blossom and bear fruit over many years, well that's almost definitely going to be far more valuable than whatever relationship i manage to build with my favourite professor who has a few dozen others pursuing the same thing under his expertise.
but what you continue to miss is the value of the principle of higher education; a free exchange of ideas in a formal setting. universities everywhere fall short of that ideal in many ways obviously but it doesn't mean we can't approximate it going forward.[/QUOTE]
The people on this board can't see what you said because they don't exchange in transfer of ideas. They only listen to themselves. They'd completely miss the point of that kind of education.
[QUOTE=niko]The people on this board can't see what you said because they don't exchange in transfer of ideas. They only listen to themselves. They'd completely miss the point of that kind of education.[/QUOTE]
well that's just clearly not true
[QUOTE=RidonKs]well that's just clearly not true[/QUOTE]
Not everyone, i just mean some of the people in this discussion. Discussions on this board can be very myopic. People can be arguing based on a fact set that they find out is absolutely 100% wrong (which happens) and they will still argue endlessly.
[QUOTE=RidonKs]name an apprenticeship as an example and let's take a look at it
......
but what you continue to miss is the value of the principle of higher education; a free exchange of ideas in a formal setting. universities everywhere fall short of that ideal in many ways obviously but it doesn't mean we can't approximate it going forward.[/QUOTE]
Electrical engineering is one example.
Universities used to be a free exchange of ideas in formal settings. Now they are institutionalized. Ideas are shot down if they go against the professors point of view. You aren't encouraged to think for yourself, you are encouraged have the same viewpoints and ideas as your teachers, and memorize information to fill in end of year tests and essays properly.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE-In many psychology courses around the UK, many muslim students are refusing to learn evolutionary psychology, because evolution goes against their religion. They walk out of the class and refuse to answer test questions. Because teachers are afraid of being Islamaphobic, they pass these students and give them degrees anyways. SO basically there are all these kids out there now with psychology degrees, able to practice psychology who aren't really qualified to do it, because they blocked out loads of lessons. What does a UK degree mean?
My last job was in the education sector. I sat in several meetings with VCs, deans and course leaders and had to listen to several episodes such as this that are occuring in unis all over the UK. I spoke to kids DOING MASTERS PROGRAMMES IN PSYCHOLOGY WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHO CARL JUNG WAS.
University educations are starting to mean jack shit. Unis are just doing their best to accept as many dumbasses in to their program as possible to get their loan money and then spit them out with degrees that they don't deserve. This is what happens when Liberal la la land encourages everyone to get degrees.
Also loads of kids are graduating uni expecting jobs to be handed to them on a silver platter-entitlement culture is taking over.
Maybe this is a UK specific problem, I wouldn't know.
[QUOTE=niko][B]We went through this before, there are a lot of jobs where the complexity is such that you need to understand a lot of underlying information, not just[/B] "do it and learn it". You also need to learn to do the type of critical thinking required to understand those complexities.
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You are acting like they don't teach theory and underlying information in apprenticeships:facepalm Don't be elitist bro!
[QUOTE=Nick Young]Electrical engineering is one example.
Universities used to be a free exchange of ideas in formal settings. Now they are institutionalized. Ideas are shot down if they go against the professors point of view. You aren't encouraged to think for yourself, you are encouraged have the same viewpoints and ideas as your teachers, and memorize information to fill in end of year tests and essays properly.[/QUOTE]
My dad is an electrician. He was sent to classes in the air force, he studied later on in classes too. It depends on the complexity of problem you are facing. He didn't learn everything by apprenticing. Con Edison (the provider in NY) sends their electricians to school. You're right, but you're not just because you're a bit too far in one direction.
Not all universities are like you are describing btw. I had the experience you are talking about at times (it's awful) BUT I also had the experience Ridonks is talking about. There were classes that were beyond pointless but some of the unrelated stuff I was asked to take did contain information that was helpful, or just methodology i could use on other things.
You kind of get out of it what you put into it. If you go into it with the idea this is useless crap I'm being forced to do then good luck on it being positive.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]You are acting like they don't teach theory and underlying information in apprenticeships:facepalm Don't be elitist bro![/QUOTE]
Not to the degree necessary to do a lot of jobs. By nature these are jobs that require a lot of time on the job doing the actual work. you can't sit and teach a master class. Apprenticeships are working and watching, not classwork. If you want to pretend part of the apprenticeship is the part where you break out the books and the person teaches you like it's school, then yes, school is not needed. :lol