Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=ImKobe]Because the Eastern Conference in 2007 was weak as shit, 2011 was better, but the Mavs were by far the best team in the Playoffs that year, torching everybody. Lebron faced the best teams in the Finals in 07, 2011 & 2014. Kobe faced the best teams in the WC from 00-02.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't change the fact is that how "weak" the East allegedly has been for over a decade, Kobe has played sub-par against that "weak" East representative.
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Doesn't change the fact is that how "weak" the East allegedly has been for over a decade, Kobe has played sub-par against that "weak" East representative.[/QUOTE]
ask yourself this:
if Kobe had faced one of those East teams in the 1st 2nd or conference finals putting up those low percentage numbers, then went ahead and faced a West team in the finals and put up 33-7-7 on 52% in a win. Would you still say the same things you say now? Or is the thread going to turn into "Kobe's 1st round stats, let's ignore his finals."
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=riseagainst]he's not as good of a finals performer as the others. And numbers wise, he's not as good as them either.[/QUOTE]
Numbers wise, he's better than Bird. 28/6/5/2 as a starter for his career on virtually the same TS% as bird on a higher PER + considering the fact Kobe played at a much slower pace and less MPG (much less inflated stats)
30/6/6/2 per game average on 46/34/85 shooting from 08-10 in the Playoffs
People let their hate for Kobe cloud their judgement. If a 22 year old Kobe could lead the most dominant Playoff team in league history, he's as good as anybody.
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=dubeta]It's okay we equally don't count Kobe's 2000-2002 or Duncan's 2007 and 2014
Objectively Kobe has 2 and Duncan has 3 rings[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
They all count.
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=riseagainst]ask yourself this:
if Kobe had faced one of those East teams in the 1st 2nd or conference finals putting up those low percentage numbers, then went ahead and faced a West team in the finals and put up 33-7-7 on 52% in a win. Would you still say the same things you say now? Or is the thread going to turn into "Kobe's 1st round stats, let's ignore his finals."[/QUOTE]
The thread is about Kobe's Finals numbers. Whenever it gets brought up, Kobe stans run to "the real Finals was the WCF" and "look what he did before the Finals"
The Finals is when you're needed the most. Put up or shut up. You don't see James fans saying but "look what LeBron did against Detroit in the ECF" or saying the same thing for the 2011 ECF.
Once you get to the Finals, the slate is wiped clean and it's time to see what you're made of. History proves that once Kobe is in the Finals, he plays much worse against the alleged "weak East"
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=ImKobe]Numbers wise, he's better than Bird. 28/6/5/2 as a starter for his career on virtually the same TS% as bird on a higher PER + considering the fact Kobe played at a much slower pace and less MPG (much less inflated stats)
30/6/6/2 per game average on 46/34/85 shooting from 08-10 in the Playoffs
People let their hate for Kobe cloud their judgement. If a 22 year old Kobe could l[B]ead the most dominant Playoff[/B] team in league history, he's as good as anybody.[/QUOTE]
if you want to take out Kobe's non-starter years, i think it's at least fair to take out Bird's hurt years, i'll just say his last 2 years in the NBA. Versus taking out Kobe's first 2 years. I think that's a fair trade off.
here are their stats:
regular season:
Bird: 25-10.1-6.3 50/37/88
23.9 PER, .567 TS, .516 eFG, .210 ws48, [B]26.8 USG[/B]
Kobe: 27.3-5.7-5.1 45.5/33/84
23.8 PER, .556 TS, .488 eFG, .187 ws48, [B]32.2 USG[/B]
playoffs:
Bird: 24.5-10.6-6.5 47.5/34.5/89.2
21.8 PER, .555 TS, .488 eFG, .181 ws48, [B]25.1 USG[/B]
Kobe: 27.4-5.4-5.1 44.9/33.5/81.9
22.8 PER, .542 TS, .482 eFG, .162 ws48,[B] 31.3 USG[/B]
Bird is better in literally everything except for putting up 2-3 points less, but he makes up for in distribution and a huge rebounding lead. Most impressive thing is his USG%.
for the bolded, i'll say co-lead.
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Doesn't change the fact is that how "weak" the East allegedly has been for over a decade, Kobe has played sub-par against that "weak" East representative.[/QUOTE]
Define "sub-par"?
2000 he played injured, yet won the most crucial game of the series with Shaq not playing, hit consecutive clutch shots on the road, including the go-ahead basket and the putback to seal the game
2001 he had one horrible shooting game and dominated the rest of the series
2002 he dropped 27 ppg on 51% shooting with 55% from 3, closed out every game and flat out dominated
2004 he faced the GOAT defensive team of his era, that abused the rules to a point the league had to change them after the Finals, despite shooting what he did, played great defense and made plays for his teammates, who couldn't knock down an open shot to save their lives, watch the damn series before you post
2008 he faced the 2nd best defensive team of his era(the same team Lebron shot under 36% against in the Playoffs the same year, having a 2-18 game with 10 TOVs) and was a collective team blunder away from going 7 games despite Bynum being out for the Playoffs
2009 he put up the numbers that only MJ had last put up (30+/5+/7+ a game)
2010 was pretty much the same as 2001, he had one bad shooting night but relatively dominated the rest of the series
I mean, people are so hell-bent on Kobe's scoring efficiency and ignore when other players do the same. MJ had a few of these series (96 & 98), Lebron had a few (2007 & 2013), Duncan has the worst TS% Finals MVP by anyone in the modern era...
Nikka earned his 5 rings and they are as legit as anyone else's. People cherry pick one series and act like he didn't lead a team to the Finals as the best player on 6 occasions (2001, 2002, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2010) and like he didn't win 5 out of 7 Finals.
I hear your opinion, but I'm not getting any solid arguments except that Kobe shot 41 or 43% in the Finals :biggums: Nikka is a 45% career shooter, you gonna hold it against him for at worst shooting 5-7% below his season average against great defenses, when a nikka like Lebron goes from shooting 57% in the regular season to shooting 45% in the Finals? :kobe:
Nikka is considered the GOAT Laker by Jerry West, Shaq, and Magic. Guys like Larry and MJ tell you he's up there with them. What else do you want me to tell you?
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=ImKobe]Define "sub-par"?
2000 he played injured, yet won the most crucial game of the series with Shaq not playing, hit consecutive clutch shots on the road, including the go-ahead basket and the putback to seal the game
2001 he had one horrible shooting game and dominated the rest of the series
2002 he dropped 27 ppg on 51% shooting with 55% from 3, closed out every game and flat out dominated
2004 he faced the GOAT defensive team of his era, that abused the rules to a point the league had to change them after the Finals, despite shooting what he did, played great defense and made plays for his teammates, who couldn't knock down an open shot to save their lives, watch the damn series before you post
2008 he faced the 2nd best defensive team of his era(the same team Lebron shot under 36% against in the Playoffs the same year, having a 2-18 game with 10 TOVs) and was a collective team blunder away from going 7 games despite Bynum being out for the Playoffs
2009 he put up the numbers that only MJ had last put up (30+/5+/7+ a game)
2010 was pretty much the same as 2001, he had one bad shooting night but relatively dominated the rest of the series
I mean, people are so hell-bent on Kobe's scoring efficiency and ignore when other players do the same. MJ had a few of these series (96 & 98), Lebron had a few (2007 & 2013), Duncan has the worst TS% Finals MVP by anyone in the modern era...
Nikka earned his 5 rings and they are as legit as anyone else's. People cherry pick one series and act like he didn't lead a team to the Finals as the best player on 6 occasions (2001, 2002, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2010) and like he didn't win 5 out of 7 Finals.
I hear your opinion, but I'm not getting any solid arguments except that Kobe shot 41 or 43% in the Finals :biggums: Nikka is a 45% career shooter, you gonna hold it against him for at worst shooting 5-7% below his season average against great defenses, when a nikka like Lebron goes from shooting 57% in the regular season to shooting 45% in the Finals? :kobe:
Nikka is considered the GOAT Laker by Jerry West, Shaq, and Magic. Guys like Larry and MJ tell you he's up there with them. What else do you want me to tell you?[/QUOTE]
We actually want you to STFU.
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=riseagainst]if you want to take out Kobe's non-starter years, i think it's at least fair to take out Bird's hurt years, i'll just say his last 2 years in the NBA. Versus taking out Kobe's first 2 years. I think that's a fair trade off.
here are their stats:
regular season:
Bird: 25-10.1-6.3 50/37/88
23.9 PER, .567 TS, .516 eFG, .210 ws48, [B]26.8 USG[/B]
Kobe: 27.3-5.7-5.1 45.5/33/84
23.8 PER, .556 TS, .488 eFG, .187 ws48, [B]32.2 USG[/B]
playoffs:
Bird: 24.5-10.6-6.5 47.5/34.5/89.2
21.8 PER, .555 TS, .488 eFG, .181 ws48, [B]25.1 USG[/B]
Kobe: 27.4-5.4-5.1 44.9/33.5/81.9
22.8 PER, .542 TS, .482 eFG, .162 ws48,[B] 31.3 USG[/B]
Bird is better in literally everything except for putting up 2-3 points less, but he makes up for in distribution and a huge rebounding lead. Most impressive thing is his USG%.
for the bolded, i'll say co-lead.[/QUOTE]
Just compare their numbers per 100 poss to make it more fair since Bird played in a faster-paced era and had more possessions than Kobe. Also factor in that Bird's numbers dipped in the Playoffs, while kobe's went up.
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=Big#50]We actually want you to STFU.[/QUOTE]
"we"
nikka, who the hell are you? fukk outta here you random POS
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=ImKobe]Numbers wise, he's better than Bird. 28/6/5/2 as a starter for his career on virtually the same TS% as bird on a higher PER + considering the fact Kobe played at a much slower pace and less MPG (much less inflated stats)
30/6/6/2 per game average on 46/34/85 shooting from 08-10 in the Playoffs
People let their hate for Kobe cloud their judgement. [B]If a 22 year old Kobe could lead the most dominant Playoff team in league history, he's as good as anybody.[/B][/QUOTE]
/thread
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=riseagainst]ask yourself this:
if Kobe had faced one of those East teams in the 1st 2nd or conference finals putting up those low percentage numbers, then went ahead and faced a West team in the finals and put up 33-7-7 on 52% in a win. Would you still say the same things you say now? Or is the thread going to turn into "Kobe's 1st round stats, let's ignore his finals."[/QUOTE]
I think you are missing the point. While the WC has been far tougher for almost the entirety of Kobe's career, the EC has been the better defensive conference and the fact is that LeBron has managed to put up better numbers against better defensive and slower paced teams. You can't say "Well Kobe is going against elite defensive teams in the Finals so he has been struggling with his FG% but LeBron has been choking against those same teams with better stats."
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]I think you are missing the point. While the WC has been far tougher for almost the entirety of Kobe's career, the EC has been the better defensive conference and the fact is that LeBron [B]has managed to put up better numbers against better defensive and slower paced teams. [/B] You can't say "Well Kobe is going against elite defensive teams in the Finals so he has been struggling with his FG% but LeBron has been choking against those same teams with better stats."[/QUOTE]
2008 ECSF against Boston, explain your theory, please :roll:
2-18 10 TOV game followed by a 6-24 7 TOV game :roll: :roll: Nikka didn't shoot over 40% until the 4th game of the damn series. FOH
And you don't get what "struggling" with FG% is, shooting 4-5% below your season average against the best defensive teams is not struggling. Lebron's % dipped as well going up against the same teams Kobe faced and also turned the ball over way more, in most cases, it's a given, since you don't face elite defensive teams for every game of the regular season. You still have to take into account that Kobe's overall efficiency for the Playoffs pretty much stays the same or in many cases, actually rises, despite playing more minutes and coming off a long ass regular season. I don't get the hate.
25/6/5 for 3 rings with Shaq (28/7/5 for the latter two titles with him)
30/6/6/2 for 3 straight Finals runs and 2 FMVPs with Gasol
those are elite numbers, yet people ac like he's some kind of a scrub that rode the bench and had no impact on games :kobe:
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=ImKobe]"we"
nikka, who the hell are you? fukk outta here you random POS[/QUOTE]
Oh HI april 2013 alt.:rolleyes:
Re: Kobe's NBA Finals Stats
[QUOTE=ImKobe]Define "sub-par"?
2000 he played injured, yet won the most crucial game of the series with Shaq not playing, hit consecutive clutch shots on the road, including the go-ahead basket and the putback to seal the game
2001 he had one horrible shooting game and dominated the rest of the series
2002 he dropped 27 ppg on 51% shooting with 55% from 3, closed out every game and flat out dominated
2004 he faced the GOAT defensive team of his era, that abused the rules to a point the league had to change them after the Finals, despite shooting what he did, played great defense and made plays for his teammates, who couldn't knock down an open shot to save their lives, watch the damn series before you post
2008 he faced the 2nd best defensive team of his era(the same team Lebron shot under 36% against in the Playoffs the same year, having a 2-18 game with 10 TOVs) and was a collective team blunder away from going 7 games despite Bynum being out for the Playoffs
2009 he put up the numbers that only MJ had last put up (30+/5+/7+ a game)
2010 was pretty much the same as 2001, he had one bad shooting night but relatively dominated the rest of the series
I mean, people are so hell-bent on Kobe's scoring efficiency and ignore when other players do the same. MJ had a few of these series (96 & 98), Lebron had a few (2007 & 2013), Duncan has the worst TS% Finals MVP by anyone in the modern era...
Nikka earned his 5 rings and they are as legit as anyone else's. People cherry pick one series and act like he didn't lead a team to the Finals as the best player on 6 occasions (2001, 2002, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2010) and like he didn't win 5 out of 7 Finals.
I hear your opinion, but I'm not getting any solid arguments except that Kobe shot 41 or 43% in the Finals :biggums: Nikka is a 45% career shooter, you gonna hold it against him for at worst shooting 5-7% below his season average against great defenses, when a nikka like Lebron goes from shooting 57% in the regular season to shooting 45% in the Finals? :kobe:
Nikka is considered the GOAT Laker by Jerry West, Shaq, and Magic. Guys like Larry and MJ tell you he's up there with them. What else do you want me to tell you?[/QUOTE]
Sub par means he's one of the most under performing Finals players ever. Here's some stats before his 2010 Finals which we both know was bad.
"Kobe Bryant has shot 40.5 % or under in four out his six NBA Finals appearances (Around 36% in his first and 38% in his fourth appearance). How many all time greats have shot 40.5% or under once, let alone four times in the NBA Finals? Also keep in mind that in three of those four in which he shot that poorly, Shaq, not him, was the one being double teamed.
"In year 2000, during the regular season, Bryant averaged almost 29 points and five assists per game. How did these stats translate over to the NBA Finals? They lowered to 15 points and four assists per game.
Shaquille O’Neal, on the other hand, raised his scoring average, from 28 in the regular season to 38 in the finals."
"In 2001, the Lakers once again won the NBA Finals. Kobe’s scoring average dropped in the clutch once again, forcing O’Neal to step up his scoring from 27 per game in the regular season to 33 in the finals."
"In 2002, For the third straight year, Kobe’s scoring and assists declined in the series and O’Neal of course stepped it up in the finals."
"In the 2004 NBA Finals, Shaq averaged 26.6 points per game with a .631 field goal percentage, while Kobe Bryant averaged 22.6 points per game with a .381 field goal percentage. However, the main reason Kobe cost the Lakers the title was that he out shot Shaq by nearly six shots despite Kobe shooting 38.1 %, while Shaq was shooting 63.1 %."
"In 2008 finals against the Celtics with this time Kobe being the “man,” he again let his team down. Against the Celtics, he shot .405 from the field and averaged 3.83 turnovers a game. In fact, in three out of their four losses he shot under 35 % from the field.
Kobe all series seemed to start off playing well in the first quarter, and then fall off and never recover. Kobe is perceived to be the best closer in the game, but yet it seemed as though he often disappeared in the 4th quarters of last years finals.
"In game four last year, Mark Jackson, a man who once said that Kobe Bryant will be better than Michael Jordan, even called out Kobe Bryant for not trying to take over the game in the 4th quarter."
"2009 Now this year was easily Kobe’s best finals performance. Kobe led the team to the title and I can’t take any credit away from him. But even so, Kobe still under performed in the NBA finals, as he shot 43 % from the field.
Although his numbers went down in the 2001 finals, he still played well as he shot .514 from the field. Then of course in 2009, despite Kobe’s FGP going down, Kobe led his team to a championship. Now two good finals out of six isn’t acceptable for a true all time great.
The true all time greats, like Jordan and Shaq, generally always showed up in the NBA finals, while Kobe has repeatedly failed to.
If you at actually look at it, Kobe has had two good finals appearances out of seven