Prime MJ was the greatest perimeter defender of all time

[QUOTE=andgar923]Tony Gwynn is better at hitting a curve ball I suppose.


Uhhhh....... That's all I got.:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
That's only because Jordan chose to focus on other things. The same kinda thing as saying he'd be a Steph Curry-like 3pt shooter or a Magic-like passer if he wanted to.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory]That's only because Jordan chose to focus on other things. The same kinda thing as saying he'd be a Steph Curry-like 3pt shooter or a [B]Magic-like passer if he wanted to[/B].[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://media.giphy.com/media/z6z7UXgOWVJ3fNn2Cc/giphy.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=swagga][IMG]http://media.giphy.com/media/z6z7UXgOWVJ3fNn2Cc/giphy.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Sarcasm

Jordan was a great defender. But he wasnt even the best defensive player on his own team for all 6 titles

And for 3 of them he was the 3rd best

MJ was a great defender but best of all time? Um, no. And you can find gifs like that for any good perimeter defender.

As others have said players that specialized in defence like Cooper or Rodman were just amazing, without always getting the accolades that MJ got. If i was a player, i'd much rather have Jordan trying to guard me than Rodman. Even for the simple fact that Rodman will focus 100% on just shutting you down, even if he never takes a single shot in the game. Jordan will gamble to make steals on you so he can get easy dunks...

[QUOTE=choppermagic]MJ was a great defender but best of all time? Um, no. And you can find gifs like that for any good perimeter defender.

As others have said players that specialized in defence like Cooper or Rodman were just amazing, without always getting the accolades that MJ got. If i was a player, i'd much rather have Jordan trying to guard me than Rodman. Even for the simple fact that Rodman will focus 100% on just shutting you down, even if he never takes a single shot in the game. Jordan will gamble to make steals on you so he can get easy dunks...[/QUOTE]

Um, no? Jordan might not be the greatest perimeter defender of all-time, but that's not inarguable where that type of response makes sense.

Cooper and Rodman got the same defensive accolades that Jordan got.

In the '90s, I was a young kid who idolized Michael Jordan - and the only basketball I really watched was the Bulls in the playoffs. So I don't know if he was the best perimeter defender back then.

I never watched anything before 1991, so I don't know if there were better defenders back then.

I only really started watching basketball closely around 2001... and I believe prime Jordan was a better perimeter than anyone that has played since then.

So yeah, he's the greatest perimeter defender I've ever seen. I can't comment on what I never saw.

[QUOTE=Dresta]And what does that have to do with being a great [I]perimeter[/I] defender?

Versatile defender, sure, but you can't separate perimeter and post defense and then say 'this guys is a more impressive perimeter defender because he's also a great post defender' - that is irrelevant to the discussion.[/QUOTE]

You're a clown! Perimeter defender means of all the guys who are perimeter players (PG, SG, SF), who is the best defender. For me, I went with Pippen because he has the VERSATILITY to separate him from the pack. He could guard PG, SG, and SF like MJ could. BUT Pip could defend the PF's as well because he was bigger. So for me that's a tiebreaker.

The most valuable defenders historically in basketball are versatile perimeter defenders and great paint protectors. A huge part of MJ's defensive skillset was his versatility to defend PG, SG, and SF.

Pippen just took that defensive skillset to the next level by being able to defend many big guys. That fact Pippen could guard anybody from Isiah Thomas to Karl Malone great DAMN SURE MAKES A DIFFERENCE!!

One thing about Jordan's defense that always amazed me was his ability to actually fully get in front of and cut off his man, often getting to the other side of the offensive player's body. This is different from what most defenders (even great defenders) do, which is to sorta get half in front of their man and angle him off with their body, preferably into help. Jordan actually fully cut guys' lanes off with his foot speed and anticipation, and I've never seen anyone else do it. He didn't do it all the time by any means either, but he did it enough. Examples here:

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSgyO_GTu60"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSgyO_GTu60[/URL] (gets his full body in front of Kittles and gets onto the other side of him before he finishes his initial moves - tremendous anticipation and footspeed)

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwSpGOH8X4#t=0m56s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwSpGOH8X4#t=0m56s[/URL] (same as above - notice where MJ's body is as he strips the ball - he's on the OTHER side of the offensive player, effectively beating him to the spot)

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7NwM2HxwU#t=1m57s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7NwM2HxwU#t=1m57s[/URL] (this is the actual game where the GIF in the OP was taken from)

[QUOTE=guy]Um, no? Jordan might not be the greatest perimeter defender of all-time, but that's not inarguable where that type of response makes sense.

Cooper and Rodman got the same defensive accolades that Jordan got.[/QUOTE]
DPOY :banana:

[QUOTE=Dro]I mean, its not like this is far fetched or something. He has just as good a case for goat perimeter defender as anybody.[/QUOTE]

Yes it is.

He has no case of even being the best on his own team, let alone all of the NBA at that time... or ever.


GOAT player, not even close to GOAT perimeter defender.

You can definitely make an argument. MJ had off the charts quickness. I think that's a part of his game that gets overlooked. His unreal quickness allowed him to blow by guys on offense and on D, always get to a spot quicker than the offensive player. His off the ball D was also unreal because of this.

MJ could never jump as high as some high leapers we have seen but no one in history, imo, had M's quickness and initial first step. That is what really set him apart.

Here's what Barkley thinks about the topic. At least for the Pippen, Jordan era.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u69SCU79_O0#t=46[/url]

[QUOTE=ThickassGlasses]Yes it is.

He has no case of even being the best on his own team, let alone all of the NBA at that time... or ever.


GOAT player, not even close to GOAT perimeter defender.[/QUOTE]

Yeah...this is bullshit. lol @ "not even close to GOAT perimeter defender." At worst, he's no lower than the second or third best in terms of overall defensive impact. Some may have been comparable or slightly better than him in terms of man defense (Payton, Cooper), but they weren't even in his universe in terms of team/help defense and defensive disruption.

No case of being the best perimeter defender on his own team? Jordan was better defensively than Pippen through his first retirement- certainly through 1992 at a minimum.

I think Jordan was a better man defender than Pippen, but Pip was a better overall defender and more impactful.