Team possessions per game (pace) divided by team apg = possesions per assist

[QUOTE=dubeta]^ 3ball deleted and reposted this every 5 mins for the last hour

no life :lol






oh and 1-9[/QUOTE]

please ban this guy, he brings nothing of value not even to trolling. His only contribution is to add unnecessary posts which drive up the cost of server bandwith.

Seriously mods, this guy is not an asset.

Terminate account.

Dubeta go home you're drunk.

Kuniva - The Cavs lost half their team in 2011 (Mo Williams, Shaq, Zydrunas, Delonte, Varejao), so it's dumb to attribute their 0.20 change in assist frequency to Lebron... Same thing in 2015, when Wade and Bosh were hurt much of the year.

If you can't see that, then I can't help you... You don't see me bragging about MJ's 1992 and 1993 Bulls having a higher assist frequency than the 1994 Bulls, because it's meaningless without bigger sample size to cancel out extenuating circumstances, like those mentioned above with Lebron's former teams.

The only thing we have a big enough sample size for is team comparisons of Lebron's teams to other teams - and clearly, his teams have far lower assist frequency than basically everyone, not just MJ's teams - this is statistical fact.

Don't be dumb bud - unfortunately, by thinking Bankaii had some sort of point... that makes you dumb, at least on this.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]3ball,

I was under the impression these stats were correct:



If what you said is TRUE, and he intentially posted wrong numbers, then I'll admit I jumped the gun. Otherwise? How does this NOT go against what you claimed in your OP? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Other factors can be attributed to the change in assist frequency, such as Wade and Bosh being injured for much of the 2015 season, and the 2011 Cavs losing half their team, not just Lebron..

But I guess you need a college-level understanding of stats to realize Bankaii's numbers are meaningless.. You didn't see me bragging about MJ's 1992 and 1993 Bulls having a higher assist frequency than the 1994 Bulls, because it's meaningless without bigger sample size to cancel out extenuating circumstances, like those mentioned above with Lebron's former teams.

The only thing we have a big enough sample size for is team comparisons of Lebron's teams to other teams - and clearly, his teams have far lower assist frequency than basically [I]everyone[/I], not just MJ's teams - this is statistical fact.

Even MJ's horrific teams in the mid-80's had FAR higher assist frequency than Lebron's stacked Heat teams.. However, this shouldn't be a surprise because what's more optimal for a team - when a player gets 26 points in a low-assisted fashion, or a guy that gets 32 points in a high-assisted fashion??.. MJ is dimensions >>>

So don't ever say, [I]or even think[/I], that Lebron's teams are good-passing teams - this data proves his teams are bad passing teams.

I understand your point, but in another thread, this is you verbatim:

[quote]27 games is a solid sample size... That's an entire college season.[/quote]

This was regarding scoring abilities between LeBron and Durant. Why the sudden change in logic? Why exactly aren't the samples large enough in your comparison here? :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=3ball]We have a massive sample to compare Lebron's teams with MJ's Bulls and other teams, present and former.. And clearly, Lebron's teams assist at frequency that is far below-average.

MJ's teams assisted way more, so did Magic's, so does Duncan's and Steph Curry - it seems like EVERYONE'S team assists better than Lebron's teams.. :confusedshrug:

So don't ever say, or even think, that Lebron's teams are great-passing teams... They're not... In MJ's case, we should EXPECT his teams to pass way better.. After all, what's more optimal for a team - to have a guy that gets 30 in a low-assisted fashion, or a guy that gets 30 in a high-assisted fashion.. :rolleyes:... MJ is so much >>[/QUOTE]
Who's ever said Lebron's teams were great passing teams? Wtf? If anything what's said is he has to set the table for his teams far too often. So you basically prove that Mj had teammates more capable of tooting their own horn? Unless you solely wish to credit Mj for these team stats......
Honestly the only time he's had a teammate truly capable of playmaking was wade especially in 2011 and to a lesser extent every year beyond that due to injury and Kevin love once they get the hang of how to use him. Also the best showing of this "stat" is 2013 which just so happened to be the best team he ever played on.....hmmm.

As far as what is more optimal? Neither. That's the beauty of basketball 3ball, there's more than one way to play the game. You play according to your assets, MJ and Lebron are 2 completely different players. Mj is the guy shooting, Lebron is the guy running the offense. What's with this tunnel vision that he has to recreate MJ's career in order to be validated?

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]I understand your point, but in another thread, this is you verbatim:



This was regarding scoring abilities between LeBron and Durant. Why the sudden change in logic? Why exactly aren't the samples large enough in your comparison here? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
we don't have 27 instances of Lebron and MJ being added or subtracted from teams.. we have like 5

[QUOTE=3ball]we don't have 27 instances of Lebron and MJ being added or subtracted from teams.. we have like 5[/QUOTE]

Hmmm. Didn't Bankaii use 1995 as one of the years in comparison? You know, the year MJ missed 3 quarters of the season?

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]

So you basically prove that Mj had teammates more capable of tooting their own horn?

[/QUOTE]
[I]1988 Bulls[/I]: 95.5/26.2 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.65[/COLOR]
[I]1987 Bulls[/I]: 95.8/26.1 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.67[/COLOR]

[I]2012 Heat[/I]: 91.2/20.0 = [COLOR="Red"]4.56[/COLOR]
[I]2011 Heat[/I]: 90.9/20.0 = [COLOR="red"]4.55[/COLOR]


All of MJ's teams assisted at a far higher rate.. Even the really shitty ones had a far higher assisted rate than Lebron's stacked Heat teams.

Again, this shouldn't be a surprise - contrary to what you think, it IS more optimal to have your #1 option getting his 30 points in a highly assisted fashion, then someone getting 30 in a low-assisted fashion (doing it all himself).

The only position on the court that is low-assisted is point guard.. When a player turns any other position into a low-assisted position (like Lebron does at sf), he lowers the assist capacity of his team relative to other teams (who have higher assisted players at the sf spot).
.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Hmmm. Didn't Bankaii use 1995 as one of the years in comparison? You know, the year MJ missed 3 quarters of the season?

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
not sure what point you were making here regarding 1995.

but regarding the point i was making earlier - mj was added to the Bulls in 1985... Subtracted in 1994... Added back for a full season in 1996... subtracted again in 1999.. that's 4 instances, and each time, you could never credit MJ fully for the change in assist frequency (i.e. it wasn't just MJ that left in 1999.. the entire team was broken up).

lebron has about 4-5 instances too, which isn't many, and each time he could never be fully credited for the change in assists (i.e. the 2011 Cavs didn't just lose Lebron.. they lost half their team).

[QUOTE=3ball]not sure what point you were making here regarding 1995.

but regarding the point i was making earlier - mj was added to the Bulls in 1985... Subtracted in 1994... Added back for a full season in 1996... subtracted again in 1999.. that's 4 instances, and each time, you could never credit MJ fully for the change in assist frequency (i.e. it wasn't just MJ that left in 1999.. the entire team was broken up).

lebron has about 4-5 instances too, which isn't many, and each time he could never be fully credited for the change in assists (i.e. the 2011 Cavs didn't just lose Lebron.. they lost half their team).[/QUOTE]

That in 1995, the Bulls had a better assist ratio than they did previous years.

Not sure why you're giving this stat ANY credence. It only paints MJ in a negative light - for that year at least.

Assist percentage. It exists and goes back into the 70's. LeBron's on/off assist percentage can be looked at. His entire career of it.

If this is looking at assists, turnovers should be looked at too.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]That in 1995, the Bulls had a better assist ratio than they did previous years.

Not sure why you're giving this stat ANY credence. It only paints MJ in a negative light - for that year at least.[/QUOTE]
The stat isn't useful to evaluate whether the addition or subtraction of a player affects the assist frequency of the team - there are too many factors to credit a change in assist frequency to one player (i.e. the Cavs losing half their roster in 2011 or Bosh/Wade being hurt in 2015) - it's pretty ridiculous to try to credit a change in assist frequency to one player.

However, the stat works well to simply compare teams and see which team assisted more frequently than the other team.. Accordingly, the stat paints MJ in a great light - [I]all[/I] of his teams had a far higher assist frequency than [I]all[/I] of Lebron's teams.

At the very least, it proves that ALL of Lebron's teams [I]aren't[/I] good passing teams... Meanwhile, MJ's teams had an elite assist frequency when you compare to various champion teams like Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, Steph Curry's Warriors, Duncan's Spurs, etc, etc.. Unfortunately, none of Lebron's teams have ever been anywhere NEAR elite assist frequency.

[QUOTE=3ball]The stat isn't useful to evaluate whether the addition or subtraction of a player affects the assist frequency of the team - there are too many factors to credit a change in assist frequency to one player (i.e. the Cavs losing half their roster in 2011 or Bosh/Wade being hurt in 2015) - it's pretty ridiculous to try to credit a change in assist frequency to one player.

However, the stat works well to simply compare teams and see which team assisted more frequently than the other team.. Accordingly, the stat paints MJ in a great light - [I]all[/I] of his teams had a far higher assist frequency than [I]all[/I] of Lebron's teams.[/quote]

All points taken, and I appreciate the explanation. But if we're trying to add context to this, why NOT do the same with MJ and LeBron led teams?

We know that Mike played in a structured offense ie. the triangle, while Pippen played point-forward during their championship runs (both of them were great off ball).

On the other hand, Bron and Wade were both ball dominant, and played for a team who's coach didn't do much to alleviate that problem. Wade was literally forced to sacrifice his game just so the Heat could succeed, and finally breakthrough.

If we're being intellectually honest, we would be remiss NOT to point out these things. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]All points taken, and I appreciate the explanation. But if we're trying to add context to this, why NOT do the same with MJ and LeBron led teams?

We know that Mike played in a structured offense ie. the triangle, while Pippen played point-forward during their championship runs (both of them were great off ball).

On the other hand, Bron and Wade were both ball dominant, and played for a team who's coach didn't do much to alleviate that problem. Wade was literally forced to sacrifice his game just so the Heat could succeed, and finally breakthrough.

If we're being intellectually honest, we would be remiss NOT to point out these things. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Its easier to play off the ball than on the ball. Its more of a mentality whether youre willing to sacrifice stats for rings or not. But bran wouldnt coz if you remove his apg, he becomes nothing coz hes not an elite scorer. So his only hope is to stack teammates and hope for the best.

This proves that bran ball=stagnant offense. Or what pjax said,"xbox offense". And that simple offense wont work in the biggest stage thus 2/6.