Dirk has played alongside 6 all stars, Lebron has had 11, Duncan 13, Kobe 15

[QUOTE=IllegalD]So what you're saying is that Dirk didn't make his teammates better? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Yes , Amare > Dirk .

Dirk did have a lot of great teams that he underachieved with.
But he also has one great overachieve in 11

[QUOTE=pastis]Nash and Finley shot 38% from the field. Finley shot 25 % from three. Antoine walker shot is usual 36% from the floor:applause:
Marquis daniels was the second best mavs player this series[/QUOTE]

I remember everyone was pretty shit those Playoffs but using PER as the only measure is dumb. That's like me calling Wade's '06 Finals the GOAT Finals because of his PER.

feyki negged me for that post :lol

[QUOTE=SexSymbol]Dirk did have a lot of great teams that he underachieved with.
But he also has one great overachieve in 11[/QUOTE]

tell me which great team he had and underarchieved from 2005 until now?

for 2004 playoffs:

In 2004 Playoffs , Dirk had 27.5 PER ( Mvp level ) , Nash had 15.5 (average) and Finley had 10 ( which is below than average ) .
Nash and Finley shot 38% from the field. Finley shot 25 % from three. Antoine walker shot is usual 36% from the floor
Marquis daniels was the second best mavs player this series


2003:
2003 they went to the WCF and lost the Spurs. Dirk injured.

[QUOTE=pastis]tell me which great team he had and underarchieved from 2005 until now?

for 2004 playoffs:

In 2004 Playoffs , Dirk had 27.5 PER ( Mvp level ) , Nash had 15.5 (average) and Finley had 10 ( which is below than average ) .
Nash and Finley shot 38% from the field. Finley shot 25 % from three. Antoine walker shot is usual 36% from the floor
Marquis daniels was the second best mavs player this series


2003:
2003 they went to the WCF and lost the Spurs. Dirk injured.[/QUOTE]

howard
stackhouse
harris
terry

pretty stacked lineup lost as 1 seed to an 8 seed

dirk put up 19.7/11.3/2.3 on 38/21/84

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]howard
stackhouse
harris
terry

pretty stacked lineup lost as 1 seed to an 8 seed

dirk put up 19.7/11.3/2.3 on 38/21/84[/QUOTE]

yes, this is the only year. but again, this team is not great and never ever should have won 67 games. never. it was just because of dirk.

and the playoffs, yea this was bad for dirk, but people forget that dirks father had an heart operation and was on the intensive care unit the time of the series. dirk is such an emotional guy.

how many more years have Duncan and Kobe played....and you can't consider Malone, Payton and Nash all-stars when they went to LA, those guys were washed....and who cares about NVE and Eddie Jones when Kobe was just coming to the league at 17 yrs old and the Lakers pretty much had no title hopes, Bynum in 2012 is useless as well when he was playing on one knee and Lakers had no bench and Mike Brown...zero title hopes there.. We should talk about how players came short in the years they should have won.

Kobe's title teams all only had one other all-star on the team besides him, Lebron's title teams had two, Duncan either had one (D-Rob) or he had Manu and Parker, and a bunch of great role players who carried him in 2014...


I don't see the point in totalling up every name who might have not even been all-star the year they played with the guys to make some kind of a point....it's always a team effort but that has never been the argument here IMO, it's about which star elevates their team the highest and who had the most success with the tools they were given. Kobe and Duncan are pretty much a tie in terms of winning 5 rings with Kobe making 7 Finals to Duncan's 6, though Duncan only made 4 Finals as a star player...

At the end of the day, Lebron has had plenty of help and as many opportunities as Duncan/Kobe to win more titles with the amount of Finals appearances he already has...he was lucky not to be 1/6, could have even been 0/6 had refs not robbed OKC in Game 2 2012 but I digress..

[QUOTE=ImKobe]how many more years have Duncan and Kobe played....and you can't consider Malone, Payton and Nash all-stars when they went to LA, those guys were washed....and who cares about NVE and Eddie Jones when Kobe was just coming to the league at 17 yrs old and the Lakers pretty much had no title hopes

[B]Kobe's title teams all only had one other all-star on the team besides him, Lebron's title teams had two, Duncan either had one (D-Rob) or he had Manu and Parker, and a bunch of great role players who carried him in 2014...[/B][/QUOTE]

I love how these kobe tards say stupid bullshit like "great role players who carried him" when it comes to Duncan...he averaged 15/10 while being one of the better defensive players on the Spurs against the Heat...but he was carried. You kobe stans are just ****ing pathetic. He was the 2nd leading scorer in that playoff run while leading the team in per...but the role players carried him...****ing kobe mutts :facepalm

[QUOTE=SexSymbol]Dirk did have a lot of great teams that he underachieved with.
But he also has one great overachieve in 11[/QUOTE]

Dirk had once time great team . And that was 2003 ( he got injured in game 3 and didn't play rest of series ) .

2006 and 2007 was good teams but not great . 2011 was close to great . But i think that was more close to good .

Don't forget , Dirk averaged 32 points with %70 TS against Thunder . And that series was close . If Dirk didn't play like super shooter , Thunder would made the finals .

[QUOTE=sportjames23]Fix'd for veracity.[/QUOTE]
Hes right Wade choked. Wade choked Lebron in the locker room when he made the team lost in 2011

[QUOTE=SexSymbol]Dirk did have a lot of great teams that he underachieved with.
But he also has one great overachieve in 11[/QUOTE]

Other than 07...what teams?

Even 07...go look at the Warriors roster and the Mavs roster. The Warriors roster is just better and they matched up much better against the Mavs and had a far better coach.

Dirk deserves a lot of blame for his play in that series whether they lost or won, but when you are getting run off the court in blow outs...it's a team problem...not a single player problem.

Dirk actually played a fine overall first 5 games of that series (he alone saved the Mavs from losing in game 5)...it was the final game that kind of skews his overall stats/play in that series.

But what other years?

All you will find is a bunch of good teams with little to no chance to win the title or make much noise in the playoffs most years. Inept coaching, flawed rosters, poorly defined roles...etc.

Like someone else mentioned...the only truly great team in terms of talent the Mavs ever had around Dirk was that 03 team. And that was a pre peak Dirk and Dirk got hurt in the WCF...a series that would have gone 7 and the Mavs were essentially a coinflip to win the title.

As for this thread.

Yes...Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq have all played with far more help and better coaching and have had much better chances to win titles. Obvious...

[QUOTE=Smoke117]I love how these kobe tards say stupid bullshit like "great role players who carried him" when it comes to Duncan...he averaged 15/10 while being one of the better defensive players on the Spurs against the Heat...but he was carried. You kobe stans are just ****ing pathetic. He was the 2nd leading scorer in that playoff run while leading the team in per...but the role players carried him...****ing kobe mutts :facepalm[/QUOTE]

Duncan wasn't a star player, he wasn't the player the team depended to play heavy minutes every night for them to win. Kobe's team depended on him more at the end of the day compared to how the Spurs were playing in 2014....you can't deny this shit.

Spurs were sitting out Duncan and playing him 30 minutes a game and they coasted to the #1 record en route to a dominant Playoff run because of everyone they had on the roster.

All you do is curse at me and say 15/10 like it compares to Kobe putting up 29 a game for his 5th title :oldlol:

You want to compare Kobe's 5th vs Duncan's?

Numbers by Playoff series

Kobe:

OKC: 24/4/4
UTA: 32/4/6
PHX: 34/7/8
BOS: 29/8/4

overall: 29/6/6 1.3 spg 0.7 bpg 40.1 mpg 46%FG 37%3PT

Duncan:

DAL: 17/8
POR: 14/8
OKC: 18/10
MIA: 15/10

overall: 16/9 52%FG 1.3 bpg 32.7 MPG

It's not even close :oldlol:, Spurs killed teams with their ball movement and 3pt shooting and the depth they had from the bench, which is why they beat Miami because Heat didn't have anyone off the bench to rely on and Lebron couldn't do it all on his own...Pau played really well in 2010 Finals at home but Spurs had 2 guys averaging more points than Duncan (TP 18/5 48%, Kawhi 18/6 61%) and they shot 47% from 3 as a team with 55 threes made in 5 games...2010 Lakers had 20 less 3PM over the course of 7 games and they attempted more shots...their best 3pt shooter MWP made 11 out of 32 while Spurs had kawhi go 11-19, Manu 10-24, Mills 13-23...Green 9-20..

let's be real for a second :kobe:

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]howard
stackhouse
harris
terry

pretty stacked lineup lost as 1 seed to an 8 seed

dirk put up 19.7/11.3/2.3 on 38/21/84[/QUOTE]
That isn't that stacked.

[QUOTE=feyki]Yes , Amare > Dirk .[/QUOTE]
:biggums:

[QUOTE=Town's Town]:biggums:[/QUOTE]

Irony ..