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[QUOTE=coin24]Yeah no one else abandons ship like bran[/QUOTE]
he jumped ship ONCE getting out of cleveland. He redeemed himself when he returned and the cavs weren't complete trash. Him leaving miami wasn't jumping ship, it was simply him going home. Understandable situation.
2/7 is a major accomplishment?:oldlol:
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]The Lakers lost to a stacked Philly squad in '83 that featured Doc/Malone/Cheeks/Toney/Jones... Then you have the '89 finals where they faced Detroit, and Magic missed half the damn series. :oldlol: Hell, the '91 Lakers played Jordan and the Bulls without Kareem and even MORE injuries.
Those are some pretty good teams to take L's against, all things considered. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Magic is similar circumstances to Lebron, but he was 5/9 in the Finals .. Magic faced what? Bird, Moses, Dr J, Jordan, McHale, Pippen, etc in his Finals. Lebron's got Duncan, Parker, Curry, Klay, Durant, Westbrook, I'd say Magic had slightly better competition and still had a much better record. Thats why hes still ahead of bran on the goat list for me
Amazing.. Magic played similar quality teams in the finals with so much more help, if only Bron had the luck :(
[QUOTE=tpols]Magic is similar circumstances to Lebron, but he was 5/9 in the Finals .. Magic faced what? Bird, Moses, Dr J, Jordan, McHale, Pippen, etc in his Finals. Lebron's got Duncan, Parker, Curry, Klay, Durant, Westbrook, I'd say Magic had slightly better competition and still had a much better record. Thats why hes still ahead of bran on the goat list[/QUOTE]
I'd say Magic has clearly faced greater competition if we're talking about SUPER teams. Philly, Detroit and Boston were stacked like pancakes...top to bottom.
This Golden State squad might be revered as one of the greatest ever tho, depending on how they finish out here obviously.
Spurs in 2014 were awesome too. No doubt.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Amazing.. Magic played similar quality teams in the finals with so much more help, if only Bron had the luck :([/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/2011-nba-final-miami-heat-dallas-mavericks-lebron-james.jpg[/IMG]
Right, but is 2011 gonna be thrown at everythng? :oldlol:
Tragic literally dribbled out the clock in a one possession game TWICE in the same finals :roll:
If that happened today, social media would BREAK.. nothing more choke than that.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Right, but is 2011 gonna be thrown at everythng? :oldlol:
Tragic literally dribbled out the clock in a one possession game TWICE in the same finals :roll:
If that happened today, social media would BREAK.. nothing more choke than that.[/QUOTE]
-biggest choke from a superstar ever? check
-cost his teammate another finals mvp and huge legacy boost? check
-had the most top heavy team in history, relative to era and competition? double check
Yeah, I would say it weighs heavy. :oldlol: Mr. "Tragic" has a positive record in the finals and is one of the greatest ever on that stage. LeBron does NOT and isn't...hence the difference in standards.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Amazing.. Magic played similar quality teams in the finals with so much more help, if only Bron had the luck :([/QUOTE]
um, no.. he teamed up twice with two separate casts of all stars, and stacked role players out over time. The help excuse has been long thrown out the window for bran
Okay, but past the cliches and casual talk.. do you really believe Magic played better in the finals?
LeBron has done his job near flawlessly since 2012... its pretty incredible, especially when you remove his stats in the finals at age 22.
[B]MAGIC JOHNSON[/B]
1980: 22 ppg, 11 rpg, 9 apg, 57% FG
1982: 16 ppg, 10 rpg, 8 apg, 53% FG (Finals MVP)
1983: 19 ppg, 8 rpg, 13 apg, 40% FG
1984: 18 ppg, 8 rpg, 14 apg, 56% FG
1985: 18 ppg, 7 rpg, 14 apg, 49% FG
1987: 26 ppg, 8 rpg, 13 apg, 54% FG (Finals MVP)
1988: 21 ppg, 6 rpg, 13 apg, 55% FG
1989: 12 ppg, 4 rpg, 8 apg, 46% FG
1991: 19 ppg, 8 rpg, 12 apg, 43% FG
Career (50 games): 20 ppg, 8 rpg, 12 apg, 52% FG
[B]LEBRON JAMES[/B]
2007: 22 ppg, 7 rpg, 7 apg, 36% FG, 43% TS
2011: 18 ppg, 7 rpg, 7 apg, 48% FG, 54% TS
2012: 29 ppg, 10 rpg, 7 apg, 47% FG, 56% TS (Finals MVP)
2013: 25 ppg, 11 rpg, 7 apg, 45% FG, 53% TS (Finals MVP)
2014: 28 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg, 58% FG, 68% TS
2015: 36 ppg, 13 rpg, 9 apg, 40% FG, 48% TS
Career (33 games): 26.4 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 6.9 apg, 44.6% FG
Lets be realistic here, please.... he's carried much bigger scoring and defensive burdens and it still wasn't enough most of the time. If he hadnt done the unthinkable in '07 and made the finals, or have his co-stars injured last year, he'd be 3/6 and it looks Magic like, with greater responsibility and statistics.
"teamed up with two seperate cast of all stars" is the extent of your context
im cryin bruv
Magic was clearly the better player in the finals. How is this even arguable?
Dude orchestrated some of the greatest offensive machines, ever, en route to 5 championships.
Just because another ATG performed better than your favorite player doesn't mean we're throwing around "cliches" and excuses. Bottom line is, Magic didn't have the number of short-comings LeBron did on that stage. Its just a fact.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Right, but is 2011 gonna be thrown at everythng? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
It was the most embarrassing finals ever for a star player. It is ALWAYS going to be brought up because it was a monumental, historic choke. It was so bad that over the summer, as they related during a playoff game the next season, Lebron actually scheduled interviews with previous star players like Magic, MJ, etc., asking for advice on how to win.
dude, you're posting stats .. Magic makes others BETTER, better than Lebron does. Magic makes his teammates stats go up. For the most part, Lebron makes his teammates stats go down.
lmao
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Magic was clearly the better player in the finals. How is this even arguable?
Dude orchestrated some of the greatest offensive machines, ever, en route to 5 championships.
Just because another ATG performed better than your favorite player doesn't mean we're throwing around "cliches" and excuses. Bottom line is, Magic didn't have the number of short-comings LeBron did on that stage. Its just a fact.[/QUOTE]
Bron factually has one shortcoming.. one time he was favored and lost. Same for Magic in '84, but then again Magic won in '85 as underdog, as LeBron did a year after '11, in '12. They both immediately redeemed themselves. Lets cut that crap. He's been the underdog in 5/7 NBA finals, and will likely get out of this having lost 5/7 times... if you want to believe Magic would have beat the '07 Spurs, igniting the unstoppable offense with Hughes and Boobie Gibson, go ahead... if you want to believe he beats the '14 Spurs, or the '15 Warriors with Mozgov as #2 guy, go ahead :confusedshrug:
I choose no.