Here's Why The Right Comes After AOC So Hard.......

[QUOTE=Hardtop Hero]Who cares? When 70% of Fox News voters are saying they agree with her plans to tax the rich that's the wave of the future. Not corporate Dems. F*ck them too. The future of the Dem party is the AOC wing, not Hillary. Take a look at what the millens, Generation Z, etc. think politically. They hate Hillary and Trump but loooove some Bernie.

Your post is meaningless and uninformed. With all due respect, of course.[/QUOTE]

Buddy, you're here citing some fox news statistic to build up your boogeyman. I'm talking to real people during my commute on the train, at work, etc. Who is really uninformed?

[QUOTE=Charlie Sheen]Buddy, you're here citing some fox news statistic to build up your boogeyman. I'm talking to real people during my commute on the train, at work, etc. Who is really uninformed?[/QUOTE]

Fox News is a station that I'm sure most would agree is not known for its "socialist" viewers. When 70% of them are saying tax the rich more, yeah that's a big deal. Not like we're talking about MSNBC watchers, or Huffington Post readers here.

So nothing of value to add, except some anecdotal evidence about people you talk to on your train ride. No solutions, no insight, nothing. you just wanted to come in and say "me no like AOC".

Ok, thanks for your input "buddy".

[QUOTE=Hardtop Hero]first, excuses excuses. LOL, these are Trump supporters telling you exactly what they think. It's why Repubs didn't run on their bullshit tax giveaway to the rich. I know you're unbelievably stubborn and set in your ways, but if even Trump supporters and Fox News viewers are in favor of taxing the rich more doesn't your common sense tell you that it will be a viable political issue no matter what YOU think about it? You keep pretending these people don't exist, and it's delusional.

I don't "worship" any democratic socialist countries. But truth be told, if I knew I had healthcare paid for, my taxes weren't going to unnecessary wars, free education, etc. then yeah tax me more because sometimes peace of mind on the front end is better than bankruptcy on the back end because I had some medical emergency. People such as yourself just can't understand this way of thinking. No one said that the US had to copy EVERYTHING from those countries, only use them as a reference point.[/QUOTE]

You're pretty thick. Andrew Cuomo even said it himself. That's how these states have gotten away with state and local taxes for years - by deducting it off their federal tax return. I thought you guys are for a fairer system and less rigging? Eliminating deductions does this.

And middle class paying more taxes is how democratic socialist countries get funded. You can't pick and choose from these countries to justify your argument and by doing so you're completely ignoring how their system is run and paid for. And high taxes don't correspond to no unncessary wars. You can and should have low taxes and no unnecessary wars. And no education is free if it's paid for by taxes or by a delayed payment plan taken from your taxes once you get employed (this is what Australia does). Further to this point, in a lot of western european countries, you get grouped by an early age and the decision is made for you if you go to university or not. Everyone in America can go...that's why education is paid for over there because they artificially limit who can go.

You're pretty uneducated about the world dude but most finance people are. They produce very little for society.

[QUOTE=Hardtop Hero]Like you have any solutions? All people like you do is just keep saying over and over again "don't tax the rich". When I point out to you that:

60% of Americans can't afford a $1000 emergency
Most don't even have $1000 in savings
Most live paycheck to paycheck
infrastructure is crumbling and a joke compared to the rest of the world
Young people saddled with debt from student loans
US suicide rate has increased 30% in 17 years

For US workers, wages have barely budged in DECADES while the wealthy's networths have skyrocketed
[URL="http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/"]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/[/URL]

And again, I could go on and on and on. Someone like yourself looks at it like I don't CARE about any of that shit. Those people DESERVE it for not being rich. You don't have solutions and don't CARE to have any to the above. That's a national crisis regardless of what the employment and stock market numbers tell you. So why should we the people care about rich people's money if no one cares about the people?

Taxing the rich may not be the end all/be all and solve all of American's woes, but it's a start that's for sure. And again, you're so stuck on what you think is "fair" that you're ignoring that once things get to a certain point, no one cares what you think is "fair". When even Fox News watchers are getting it, people are coming for that money.

And that's why the right comes after AOC so hard.[/QUOTE]

So you admit you have no idea how taxing the rich will solve any of the problems you've identified. Thank you. There is nothing to debate if you don't provide a reason to in the first place.

I've already shown how the lower taxes provides more revenue which is the ultimate goal here...not high taxes.

I'm not the one stuck on what's fair...I'm focusing on what works. You don't think it's fair that the rich don't people more taxes...it's just as arbitrary.

[QUOTE=Hawker]So you admit you have no idea how taxing the rich will solve any of the problems you've identified. Thank you. There is nothing to debate if you don't provide a reason to in the first place.

I've already shown how the lower taxes provides more revenue which is the ultimate goal here...not high taxes.

I'm not the one stuck on what's fair...I'm focusing on what works. You don't think it's fair that the rich don't people more taxes...it's just as arbitrary.[/QUOTE]

Look, if you just came out and SAID "I don't give a shit about any of the things you mentioned", I could at least respect you. However, you offer nothing except "duh, lower taxes more cause that's worked for the past 40 years and that will help even though it hasn't" This all started when Reagan lowered taxes and the "greed is good" mantra started to dominate American life.

Fox News viewers aren't known to be socialists. In fact they supposedly HATE socialists. Why are 70% of them in favor of AOC's plan? Lol, you could see the Fox News hosts choking when they had to report on this story. It was hilarious. They were freaked out. Prepare to be even more freaked out.

Why are you ignoring all the TRUMP SUPPORTERS p!ssed off at that bullshit tax cut? Why didn't the Repubs run on it if it was so great? YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS.

[URL="https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/31/billionaire_activist_alexandria_ocasio-cortez_is_the_centrist_not_howard_schultz.html"]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/31/billionaire_activist_alexandria_ocasio-cortez_is_the_centrist_not_howard_schultz.html[/URL]

Billionaire Activist: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is The Centrist, Not Howard Schultz

I suppose he's "jealous and envious" of the wealthy too right? :rolleyes: You have no solutions, and don't even care to. Just reheated "trickle down" nonsense that was disproven decades ago. FOH.

[QUOTE=Hardtop Hero]Fox News is a station that I'm sure most would agree is not known for its "socialist" viewers. When 70% of them are saying tax the rich more, yeah that's a big deal. Not like we're talking about MSNBC watchers, or Huffington Post readers here.

So nothing of value to add, except some anecdotal evidence about people you talk to on your train ride. No solutions, no insight, nothing. you just wanted to come in and say [B]"me no like AOC".[/B]

Ok, thanks for your input "buddy".[/QUOTE]

I offered insight. It's not the insight you wanted, so you're trying to reduce me here. Your focus on the monolith of Fox News is a real fresh point of view. :rolleyes:

I never offered my own opinion of AOC. What is with the bold.

[QUOTE=Hawker]You're pretty thick. Andrew Cuomo even said it himself. That's how these states have gotten away with state and local taxes for years - by deducting it off their federal tax return. I thought you guys are for a fairer system and less rigging? Eliminating deductions does this.

And middle class paying more taxes is how democratic socialist countries get funded. You can't pick and choose from these countries to justify your argument and by doing so you're completely ignoring how their system is run and paid for. And high taxes don't correspond to no unncessary wars. You can and should have low taxes and no unnecessary wars. And no education is free if it's paid for by taxes or by a delayed payment plan taken from your taxes once you get employed (this is what Australia does). Further to this point, in a lot of western european countries, you get grouped by an early age and the decision is made for you if you go to university or not. Everyone in America can go...that's why education is paid for over there because they artificially limit who can go.

You're pretty uneducated about the world dude but most finance people are. They produce very little for society.[/QUOTE]

I'm not ignoring anything. You mentioned that the middle class are taxed higher in those countries, which I already knew. I don't think most people would mind being taxed higher if it meant universal healthcare and higher education, and thus not going bankrupt in the case of an emergency or being saddled with oppressive student loans. The reason a lot of people stay in jobs is because they are scared to leave due to healthcare.

Second, as mentioned, closing corporate loopholes, offshore tax havens, etc. would free up revenue for things like fixing the country's infrastructure. It's an embarrassment that we can't compete with other countries' in this regard. Greatest nation on earth remember? Why should other countries have better public transportation, bullet trains, bridges, roads, etc.? Taxing the rich and corporations would contribute to fixing this, and provide jobs. But nope, we gave away a trillion to wealthy people and corporations who didn't need it.

And I'm going keep hammering you until you answer the following without bullshit. If you bullshit, I''ll assume you concede.

A. Why did 70% of non socialist Fox News viewers support AOC's tax plan?
B. why are all these TRUMP SUPPORTERS pissed off about their tax returns? And don't give me bullshit about "blue states".
C. Why didn't the Repubs run on this tax plan if it's so great and popular? Why did they RUN AWAY from it i the midterms?
D. We've had 40 years of tax cuts for the wealthy. Wages have stagnated, CEO pay over workers skyrocketed. Life expectancies for lower class and middle age white males has shrunk so much it can be compared to an AIDS epidemic. And on and on. If cutting taxes for the rich and corporations is so great, why is that the case?

The masses (including Republicans) are coming for that money Hawker. The bullshit of yourself and the Heritage Foundation won't stop that.

[QUOTE=Charlie Sheen]I offered insight. It's not the insight you wanted, so you're trying to reduce me here. Your focus on the monolith of Fox News is a real fresh point of view. :rolleyes:

I never offered my own opinion of AOC. What is with the bold.[/QUOTE]

Ok, so I may have misunderstood. What exactly are you trying to say?

[QUOTE]Look blaze, you have no solutions to the points I made (and again, I could go on for much longer about the US' current financial ills). All you offer up is " it's wrong to tax the rich". That's it.[/QUOTE]

So you are gonna continue with the implication that the people half of all government money comes from arent taxed right now?


[QUOTE] No solutions, no response to the fact that Warren Buffet said that the rich rig the system and that yes it's class warfare and the rich won. Etc. All you have is "don't tax the rich it isn't fair!!!"[/QUOTE]

Why would I need to respond to Warren Buffet more than you need to respond to many rich people saying otherwise?


[QUOTE]And unless you, and whatever other brainwashed peasant can offer up some REAL solutions that don't involve taxing the rich more, and corporations more then your arguments really just boil down to drivel.[/QUOTE]

Please. You have no solutions. Youre just making noise on the internet tying all of societies ills to the tax rate. Talking about the suicide rate...and people not having 1000 dollars to spare. Like you raise Robin Lopez taxes then Arbys pays some 24 year old high school dropout 22 dollars an hour....

Listening the worlds problems in a paragraph with rich peoples taxes is not a point.

You are not talking about solutions. Youre just talking.

[QUOTE]So you are gonna continue with the implication that the people half of all government money comes from arent taxed right now?[/QUOTE]

So are you gonna continue with the implication that that money just appeared in their hands as opposed to they needed WORKERS to help them accumulate it? Are you going to pretend that laborers don't matter and thus deserve to have their wages stagnate decades while the rich's wealth has skyrocketed? Again, is that "fair". Why are you only concerned about what's "fair" for high income individuals and not workers?

[QUOTE]Why would I need to respond to Warren Buffet more than you need to respond to many rich people saying otherwise?[/QUOTE]

Lol, because rich people have incentive to say otherwise, due to the fact that they GAIN from it. I put much more stock in someone who is talking about things that may HURT THEM in the end because its far more likely they're speaking honestly.


[QUOTE]Please. You have no solutions. Youre just making noise on the internet tying all of societies ills to the tax rate. Talking about the suicide rate...and people not having 1000 dollars to spare. Like you raise Robin Lopez taxes then Arbys pays some 24 year old high school dropout 22 dollars an hour....

Listening the worlds problems in a paragraph with rich peoples taxes is not a point.

You are not talking about solutions. Youre just talking.[/QUOTE]

At least I even acknowledge said issues, while people such as youself and Hawker glide right over them. And I don't have solutions to all of the country's problems because they are complex. However, more progressive tax rates on the rich is a place to START. That revenue can go to a host of things that would benefit society in the long run, such as infrastructure, education, etc. I also know that a lot of these issue just magically and coincidentally coincided with Reganomics and 'trickle down". Did you know the architect of trickle down has since disavowed it?

So here's what I'm saying. We've tried it one way for 40 years. Income inequality has skyrocketed. Most reputable economists say trickle down is nonsense. Kansas was a conservative wet dream and the state failed miserably. Why not TRY something different? Why not TRY 20 years of progressive tax rates and see what the outcome of some of these societal ills are at that time and reassess? I guarantee you the billionaires you love and dikkride sooo much and cry over wont miss that money. Meanwhile, maybe some good will have been done for society. For your friends and family.

Lastly, again, when 70% of Fox News viewers are in favor of it, it's going to be a problem for them. I'm just telling you so you're not shocked in the next 5 years or so when it happens.

[QUOTE=Hardtop Hero]This is the kind of idiocy I'm talking about. They wouldn't be where they are WITHOUT WORKERS TO TOIL AWAY FOR THEM. If you think that it's right that the average CEO made 40x the worker in the 70s and HUNDREDS OF TIMES MORE now then I don't know what to tell you.

According to Warren Buffet, the rich are taking money away from the workers who "earned it". Why don't you mind that? You don't because you've been brainwashed all these years to worship the rich and think that just the fact that they're rich makes them above you, and everyone else and any attempt to question what they make vs the average person is somehow "taking" from them. Yet you don't apply that same philosophy to labor.[/QUOTE]

I reject your line of thinking.

[QUOTE=Fallguy20]I reject your line of thinking.[/QUOTE]

And I reject yours. So does most of the American people including, apparently, 70% of FOX NEWS watchers :eek:

[QUOTE]So are you gonna continue with the implication that that money just appeared in their hands as opposed to they needed WORKERS to help them accumulate it? Are you going to pretend that laborers don't matter and thus deserve to have their wages stagnate decades while the rich's wealth has skyrocketed? Again, is that "fair". Why are you only concerned about what's "fair" for high income individuals and not workers?[/QUOTE]

A very very simple reason.

Everyone with a job decided the money offered was worth the work.

You show up...someone says ill pay ___ for ___...you shake his hand and take it.

If it in fact was not a fair deal...youre an idiot for staying.

Complacency is the greatest enemy of the poor...not the rich.

The only reason you can pay someone 10 bucks an hour is because if you dont take it someone will undercut you and be happy to get it. Lack of discipline and sticking together is what causes low wages. If you couldnt get a sandwich made for under 13 dollars an hour a billion dollar company would pay 13 dollars an hour and only hire the people fast and customer oriented enough to make it work.

But no. You turn down 9 dollars from subway 20,000 people say yes.....then complain about the pay. The people set the wages they make. They just cant think big picture enough to realize it.



[QUOTE]Lol, because rich people have incentive to say otherwise, due to the fact that they GAIN from it. I put much more stock in someone who is talking about things that may HURT THEM in the end because its far more likely they're speaking honestly.[/QUOTE]

Do you think I make 10 million dollars a year? I am speaking against my own interests. I dont have the money to be impacted by this. But the people who do dont owe society more of it when they already pay more than hundreds of millions of people combined.



[QUOTE]At least I even acknowledge said issues, while people such as youself and Hawker glide right over them. And I don't have solutions to all of the country's problems because they are complex. However, more progressive tax rates on the rich is a place to START. That revenue can go to a host of things that would benefit society in the long run, such as infrastructure, education, etc.[/QUOTE]

You have no idea what I concern myself with. I need to talk to you about societies ills to prove im aware of them? People have been calling me a liberal on here since 9/11.

[QUOTE]I also know that a lot of these issue just magically and coincidentally coincided with Reganomics and 'trickle down". Did you know the architect of trickle down has since disavowed it?[/QUOTE]

Most of these "issues" either had no way to exist a long time ago or existed in worse forms you just choose to ignore. People didnt start being poor in the 80s. They didnt start lacking savings. Im pretty sure poor people were living shitty lives in 1823.....and the year 667...and 2800BC.

You do not have the answers to societies issues because they are all based on human nature. Till someone comes up with star trek technology to replicate food, have eternal energy sources, and provide world peace with no need for income every issue you raise will exist.



[QUOTE]So here's what I'm saying. We've tried it one way for 40 years. Income inequality has skyrocketed. Most reputable economists say trickle down is nonsense. Kansas was a conservative wet dream and the state failed miserably. Why not TRY something different? Why not TRY 20 years of progressive tax rates and see what the outcome of some of these societal ills are at that time and reassess? I guarantee you the billionaires you love and dikkride sooo much and cry over wont miss that money. Meanwhile, maybe some good will have been done for society. For your friends and family.[/QUOTE]

That "We did this.....now do that!" mentality is really kinda childish. Young people always act like the way its been in their brief life is the way its always been. This country is well over 200. They have tried high taxes....lower...a middle area...you know what is eternal?

Poor people bitching about how it should be better for them when they do little to make it happen.

No matter what you do we will have half a million idiots work at walmart for 10 dollars an hour complaining about how they cant get ahead when you can take a GED course, get a phlebotomy license, and make bank in 2 years. They will push carts at target for 5 years when a forklift license is 50 bucks with wages in the 15 dollar range to start. People sitting home smoking weed in their moms house with nothing to do all day when master plumbers will take on an unpaid apprentice and teach them all they need to know to get licensed and make 50 bucks an hour....for nothing but the grunt work they are getting too old to do. They will flip burgers for years at a time when state jobs wil give you 16 an hour to start on a road crew....never putting in an application for 95% of the jobs that are around them that they somehow dont notice. Walk into the DMV, school district, DOT, or 40 other local state jobs with good pay and benefits. Apply. Then apply against next week. And again. Get to know people. Talk to the guy in the truck while a road crew works. befriend him. He can have you making 26 dollars an hour in 5 years.

But no.

Dude is gonna slack off at his minimum wage job for 15 years talking about how poor off he is.

He makes what he deserves because he doesnt seem to think he deserves any more. Not if he has to give up his off day to go look for it.

You acting like you care so much because youre talking on the internet.

Ive PAID for online classes for poor people. I helped out with tuition and supplies for a phlebotomist who used to be a cashier. I helped my homegirl become a CPA. She was working multiple jobs and up studying with me to pass. I get people jobs. I set up 401K and savings for teenagers all the time. My speech on compound interest has been delivered 200 times. I signed up a 19 year old girl and a 18 year old guy THIS WEEK to stock purchase plans.

Dont tell me about how much I care. I have a passion for helping young poor people figure it out.

But you know what comes first?

Them deciding they wont accept their station in life. And guess what?

Most poor people dont make that choice. They get a shitty job and dont apply to another one till they lose it. That isnt on rich people. Thats on them and their parents poor life lessons.



[QUOTE]Lastly, again, when 70% of Fox News viewers are in favor of it, it's going to be a problem for them. I'm just telling you so you're not shocked in the next 5 years or so when it happens.[/QUOTE]

You realize I said long ago in here that it probably will happen right?

And then you will come in here....and realize every problem you mention still exists. Hell I bet the same congress will pass a 15 dollar minimum wage and the Burger King employees can cheer till they get replaced by a kiosk that never calls in sick after the superbowl.

[QUOTE=Hardtop Hero]Ok, so I may have misunderstood. What exactly are you trying to say?[/QUOTE]

A large segment of democratic voters won't support aoc. These are the people who call bernie a fraud for using their party platform to get exposure in his presidential bid. It's not a fringe minority either. At least in California. The professionals, property owners, people with household incomes upwards of 200k want to know what's in this clawback at the super rich for them. The perception is that tax plan does little to nothing to open new paths to upward mobility for them while bringing everyone else beneath them closer to their level. The Me first mentality exists on the democratic side too.

That's what I see as an even greater challenge to AOC than anything from the right.

[QUOTE=Charlie Sheen]A large segment of democratic voters won't support aoc. These are the people who call bernie a fraud for using their party platform to get exposure in his presidential bid. It's not a fringe minority either. At least in California. The professionals, property owners, people with household incomes upwards of 200k want to know what's in this clawback at the super rich for them. The perception is that tax plan does little to nothing to open new paths to upward mobility for them while bringing everyone else beneath them closer to their level. The Me first mentality exists on the democratic side too.

That's what I see as an even greater challenge to AOC than anything from the right.[/QUOTE]

Here's why the Left Comes After Howard Schultz So Hard...

:lol