Micheal Jordan Denial

[QUOTE=Phenomenon]Well, really? :oldlol:
Because Magic Johnson more then once said Larry Bird was the greatest player he's ever seen. Either he's completely contradicting himself or you're just making stuff up.

But I'll gladly see a link from you to back that statement up.[/QUOTE]
repeatedly over the years (even last year i think when the kobe comparison came up) he has said jordan. i suspect he said bird sometime before 1993, because by the 1992 finals (which he announced) he was already in jordan's corner.

for whatever that's worth.

[QUOTE=Phenomenon]Well, really? :oldlol:
Because Magic Johnson more then once said Larry Bird was the greatest player he's ever seen. Either he's completely contradicting himself or you're just making stuff up.

But I'll gladly see a link from you to back that statement up.[/QUOTE]


Famous story about how Bird, Magic, and MJ all stayed up all night in Barcelona one night and they talked about about who's the greatest.

After going back and forth, Bird stopped the conversation and said, "Magic you were great, I was great, but MJ was the greatest." The way Bird put it, Magic and him conceded.


I'll try to find a link, but it's a pretty famous story.

I heard numerous times Magic Johnson telling to Larry Bird that he's the greatest player he's ever seen. I guess it's out of respect for their rival, and him picking Jordan is his un-bias opinion. Fair enough.

Like I said, Jordan would make #1 on my list as well...I just don't think the gap is that large between him and other legends of the game.

[QUOTE]i suspect he said bird sometime before 1993, because by the 1992 finals (which he announced) he was already in jordan's corner.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't have brought that up if it was the case, I think last year he said that. I can't think off top of my head where I seen it, I think it was a special ceremony of some sort for Magic and Larry Bird was there??

Oh my god, I have amnesia.

[QUOTE=Phenomenon]I heard numerous times Magic Johnson telling to Larry Bird that he's the greatest player he's ever seen. I guess it's out of respect for their rival, and him picking Jordan is his un-bias opinion. Fair enough.

Like I said, Jordan would make #1 on my list as well...I just don't think the gap is that large between him and other legends of the game.[/QUOTE]
agreed. i like this quote from jordan in that same article (whether he believes it or not):

[QUOTE]"It's truly an accomplishment, and I take it in a prideful way," Jordan says of his "greatest" title. "But I don't accept it in the sense that I haven't played against the other great players. I've played against some good players and great players in my era, but I don't get to play against the other guys in other eras.

"I think that's unfair to those guys as well as to myself to say I'm the best that ever played because I never played against Wilt Chamberlain. I never played against Jerry West," Jordan says. "I respect the older players and if it wasn't for them, there is no way I could have become the player that I am. I've watched Jerry West. I've watched Walter Davis, David Thompson. They influenced my game. They've got to have a piece of what I've accomplished."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]"I think that's unfair to those guys as well as to myself to say I'm the best that ever played because I never played against Wilt Chamberlain. I never played against Jerry West," Jordan says. "I respect the older players and if it wasn't for them, there is no way I could have become the player that I am. I've watched Jerry West. I've watched Walter Davis, David Thompson. They influenced my game. They've got to have a piece of what I've accomplished."[/QUOTE]

It makes me feel good when I think like Michael Jordan. :)

[QUOTE]"It's truly an accomplishment, and I take it in a prideful way," Jordan says of his "greatest" title. "But I don't accept it in the sense that I haven't played against the other great players. I've played against some good players and great players in my era, but I don't get to play against the other guys in other eras.

"I think that's unfair to those guys as well as to myself to say I'm the best that ever played because I never played against Wilt Chamberlain. I never played against Jerry West," Jordan says. "I respect the older players and if it wasn't for them, there is no way I could have become the player that I am. I've watched Jerry West. I've watched Walter Davis, David Thompson. They influenced my game. They've got to have a piece of what I've accomplished."[/QUOTE]

:applause:

that should be every great player's mentality

[QUOTE=Phenomenon]I heard numerous times Magic Johnson telling to Larry Bird that he's the greatest player he's ever seen. I guess it's out of respect for their rival, and him picking Jordan is his un-bias opinion. Fair enough.

Like I said, Jordan would make #1 on my list as well...I just don't think the gap is that large between him and other legends of the game.



I wouldn't have brought that up if it was the case, I think last year he said that. I can't think off top of my head where I seen it, I think it was a special ceremony of some sort for Magic and Larry Bird was there??

Oh my god, I have amnesia.[/QUOTE]

The initial post you were responding to (mine) simply said that when [b]someone comes along who is better[/b], people will recognize it. Meaning from the present time and into the future. Not past players like Magic/Kareem/Wilt etc. Not sure why you got so offended except that perhaps in your rush to minimize Jordan you didn't comprehend what you were reading. Those past players do have [i]cases[/i] (illegitimate ones imo, but cases nonetheless) for being better than or as good as Jordan, but no one today does.

[QUOTE=dejordan]agreed. i like this quote from jordan in that same article (whether he believes it or not):[/QUOTE]

Whether he believes it or not is dead on. :D

That is "Public Mike" in that quote. "Private Mike" (who is WAYYY different) knows he would take Jerry West turn him into Jerry Sichting.

I also love how Mike ALWAYS references Walter Davis and David Thompson. I swear if you gave Mike an all time starting five to play with they'd be in it. :oldlol:

He is too funny with that stuff.

[QUOTE]Not sure why you got so offended except that perhaps in your rush to minimize Jordan you didn't comprehend what you were reading. Those past players do have cases (illegitimate ones imo, but cases nonetheless) for being better than or as good as Jordan, but no one today does.[/QUOTE]

My comprehension skills are just fine, perhaps you should take a look at the post you were replying to...in the first place.

And even if you were only talking about current and future players, it's not exactly clear by your statement...so perhaps you should do a better job typing your posts. I didn't get offended, this is a basketball forum and I replied to something I didn't agree with. I don't get rattled the way you do when someone thinks Jordan's isn't a basketball god or when someone says something positive about Kobe. I'm a hell of a lot more neutral about basketball discussions then you are.

Kettle calling me black.

[B]"It's truly an accomplishment, and I take it in a prideful way," Jordan says of his "greatest" title. "But I don't accept it in the sense that I haven't played against the other great players. I've played against some good players and great players in my era, but I don't get to play against the other guys in other eras.

"I think that's unfair to those guys as well as to myself to say I'm the best that ever played because I never played against Wilt Chamberlain. I never played against Jerry West," Jordan says. "I respect the older players and if it wasn't for them, there is no way I could have become the player that I am. I've watched Jerry West. I've watched Walter Davis, David Thompson. They influenced my game. They've got to have a piece of what I've accomplished."
[/B]

I know there is nothing wrong with saying this, and it actually is the most respectful thing to say. But I highly doubt Michael Jordan actually thinks this. I'm sure he does think he's the greatest. He's just the type of guy that likes to avoid controversy and he is humble.

Isiah Rider (Jordan's student) was better than MJ if he did'nt mess up his carrer he'd be at an insane level right now

[QUOTE=mjbulls23]how can people say Jordan would be just another swingman today? That's laughable..... and "Kobe is better than MJ"..... are you guys 15 year olds that began watching NBA in 2006? I'll compare Kobe to the 2nd 3 peat MJ because he is not even remotely close to young MJ...... What you youngsters should learn is that Jordan was mentally head and shoulders above any current player.... People were afraid to motivate this man in any way....... Jordan raised his level of play in the playoffs and Finals........ today's inflated scoring stats due to the rule changes must have fooled you guys....... As of today, Jordan is the GOAT....... The Kobe / MJ comparison is too premature....... And the competition is not better today...... Stockton & Payton (defensively) would be today's best PG's...... same with MJ at SG, Pip at SF, Malone at PF, and take your pick on any center from the 90s, young Shaq, Hakeem, Patrick, D. Robison, etc..... I can only imagine what Rodman and Barkley's rebounding numbers would be today.........[/QUOTE]

I agree. I don't get how Jordan would be just another swingman today, when he accomplished more then all of today's swingmen in an era where the rules weren't catered to swingmen as much. That means that Jordan would probably accomplish more in today's game, i.e. average 40 ppg.

I disagree with some of what you said though. I still would say Lebron would be the best SF over Pippen today, and Duncan the best PF over Malone.

[QUOTE=dejordan]agreed. i like this quote from jordan in that same article (whether he believes it or not):[/QUOTE]
That's a great quote, and that man deserves a lot of respect. People in todays era would say, "Wilt played with unathletic white men, I would've averaged 80 a game in this or that era." But the fact of the matter is that it can't be proven. Jordan was the greatest in his era, and I think that hypothetically he would still be the greatest on an individual level in this era.

[QUOTE]SportsCentury is an Emmy award-winning ESPN biography program that reviews the people and athletic events that defined sports in North America throughout the 20th and 21st centuries.

In 1999, ESPN counted down the Top 50 Athletes of the 20th Century, voted on by a panel of sports journalists and observers, premiering a new biography highlighting each top athlete every week throughout the year.

Research for SportsCentury include more than 1,000 interviews, 50,000 photos, and 100,000 newspaper artifacts.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
[B]SportsCentury: Top 100 Athletes of the 20th Century[/B]

# 1. Michael Jordan
# 2. Babe Ruth
# 3. Muhammad Ali
# 4. Jim Brown
# 5. Wayne Gretzky
# 6. Jesse Owens
# 7. Jim Thorpe
# 8. Willie Mays
# 9. Jack Nicklaus
# 10. Babe Didrikson
# 11. Joe Louis
# 12. Carl Lewis
# 13. Wilt Chamberlain
# 14. Hank Aaron
# 15. Jackie Robinson
# 16. Ted Williams
# 17. Magic Johnson
# 18. Bill Russell
# 19. Martina Navratilova
# 20. Ty Cobb
# 21. Gordie Howe
# 22. Joe DiMaggio
# 23. Jackie Joyner-Kersee
# 24. Sugar Ray Robinson
# 25. Joe Montana[/QUOTE]


Look at all the great names on this list. And Michael Jordan is #1. Isn't that amazing? So you believe Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, or Kobe Bryant will end up higher than all these people?

Can we end the discussion now?

[QUOTE=guy]I disagree with some of what you said though. I still would say Lebron would be the best SF over Pippen today, and Duncan the best PF over Malone.[/QUOTE]

ya well that's arguable. I give mid 90s Pip the edge slightly over LeBron because of his defense and the fact that he played as a point forward too (although LeBron has better court vision) as well as his experience, especially after winning the first 3 titles with Jordan. As for Malone and Duncan, that is also very close. Would Duncan on those 97 and 98 Jazz teams would have beaten the Bulls? Especially since Duncan plays somewhat more as a center than Malone who was a 6-9 PF, and the fact that Rodman guarded centers more effectively than he did PF's.... especially a PF like Malone who could outmuscle Rodman. IMO Duncan is #2 on the alltime PF list. Malone wasn't as talented as Duncan at first, Malone made himself a great player with hard work. His workout regimens speak for themselves. It's arguable though since both comparisons are so close.