kobe will never be mj
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kobe will never be mj
[QUOTE=Shep]current bryant is easily better than '85 jordan, as was '07 bryant, '06 bryant, '04 bryant, '03 bryant, '02 bryant, '01 bryant, and '00 bryant.
peak bryant ('03) wasn't better than '88 jordan, '89 jordan, '90 jordan, '91 jordan, '92 jordan, '93 jordan, '96 jordan, or '97 jordan.[/QUOTE]
04' Bryant? He shot under 43.8% and averaged 24 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.1 apg. I know part of the drop in his numbers was because of Malone and Payton but still his shooting % was too low.
As far as 00' Kobe being better than 85' Jordan....not even close. 01' is debatable too.
Other than those 3 points I actually agree with you for once.
[QUOTE=VCMVP1551]But the W-L record wasn't you f*cking moron. What good is better numbers if the W-L record is worse? He should have been a deferring the whole time considering Shaq was the teams clear best player. It's no coincidence that the teams winning % was better without Kobe(.786) than with Kobe(.662)[/QUOTE]
Ya, that's why Kobe was our best player in the Kings and Spurs series by TAKING over against our two biggest threats that year. Sure LA was better without him. Keep it up ISHiot:oldlol:
all i know is at age 40 mj still managed to get 20 ppg ... [B]AT AGE 40[/B]....
MJ will be the greatest player ever to play this game.....
[QUOTE=eliteballer]Ya, that's why Kobe was our best player in the Kings and Spurs series by TAKING over against our two biggest threats that year. Sure LA was better without him. Keep it up ISHiot:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Taking over when Shaq was doubled and tripled every other f*cking play.
There is a reason why Shaq was the leading scorer on a 15-1 playoff team.
Lets see Kobe do that.
The numbers don't lie. 11-3 record without Kobe in 2000-2001.
You know what the Lakers record was in the 31 games that Kobe missed and Shaq played during the 3peat?
25-6.
What's your response for that?
Kobe missed 32 games, not 31:roll: Shaq himself called KOBE the best player in the league during the 01 playoffs. Second, those teams were built around Shaq, of course they were going to do well as long as he was in there:rolleyes: Keep telling us inaccurate heights, ISHiot:oldlol:
[QUOTE=eliteballer]Kobe missed 32 games, not 31:roll:[/QUOTE]
I said games that Kobe missed and Shaq played. Shaq missed one of those 32 games f*cking retard.
You can't even f*cking read. :oldlol:
[QUOTE]Shaq himself called KOBE the best player in the league during the 01 playoffs.[/QUOTE]
Shaq has also said KG can't play defense. You can't take what Shaq says seriously.
[QUOTE]Second, those teams were built around Shaq, of course they were going to do well as long as he was in there:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
If the teams were built around Shaq then Kobe shouldn't have been trying to be the first option. :roll:
[QUOTE]Keep telling us inaccurate heights, ISHiot:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
You've said ISHiot atleast 5 times in this thread. Come up with a new insult.
As for "inaccurate" heights, pre-draft measurements and players own claims are pretty damn accurate.
[QUOTE=VCMVP1551]Taking over when Shaq was doubled and tripled every other f*cking play.
There is a reason why Shaq was the leading scorer on a 15-1 playoff team.
Lets see Kobe do that.
The numbers don't lie. 11-3 record without Kobe in 2000-2001.
You know what the Lakers record was in the 31 games that Kobe missed and Shaq played during the 3peat?
25-6.
What's your response for that?[/QUOTE]
Actually, it was Kobe who led that team in scoring until I think the last game in the finals.
Basically, Kobe was leading them firmly in scoring until the finals when Shaq exploded for like 38 ppg or something and Kobe was at 26.
Either way, it's not like it's a big difference, I think Shaq in the end was at 30 and Kobe at 29 ppg.
What bugs us, Kobe fans there is that he is the only guy ever to average 29-7-6 in the playoffs and then get labeled as a second option. It's just wrong. Usually, by second option you consider a guy to be a second option caliber player. Like Parker.
I mean, at least say then that Kobe was the top 3 player which he obviously was that year and a first option playing a 2nd option. It's more politically correct lol.
[QUOTE=Emile]
What bugs us, Kobe fans there is that he is the only guy ever to average 29-7-6 in the playoffs and then get labeled as a second option. It's just wrong. Usually, by second option you consider a guy to be a second option caliber player. Like Parker.
I mean, at least say then that Kobe was the top 3 player which he obviously was that year and a first option playing a 2nd option. It's more politically correct lol.[/QUOTE]
Kobe is definitely not the only guy to ever do that. Jordan, Oscar, Lebron, and T-mac have all done that. But I really don't see how thats wrong, when its true. Shaq was just a monster during those years, and clearly the most important player to that team. But people do have to look into it with more detail then just he was a 2nd option, cause he was a better 2nd option then most.
[QUOTE=guy]Kobe is definitely not the only guy to ever do that. Jordan, Oscar, Lebron, and T-mac have all done that.[/quote]
Yeah, but he meant the only player to do that AND get labeled a second option (which he was). I understand his point, and I believe that Kobe was one of the 2-3 best second options of all time during those years, but it doesn't change the fact that he WAS the second option and, more importantly, he was not as vital to that team's success as Shaq. It wasn't 75%/25% or anything (except maybe in 2000), but it was at least 55/45 (2002/2003) or 60/40 (2001/2002) Shaq.
Current Kobe, physically bigger/stronger than a rookie MJ. And I'm assuming its in todays game as well.
[QUOTE=guy]Shaq was just a monster during those years, and clearly the most important player to that team. But people do have to look into it with more detail then just he was a 2nd option, cause he was a better 2nd option then most.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. As good as Kobe was he was the second optiond espite being a top 5 player in the league. he just happened to be playing on a team with the best player in the league.
another jordan and kobe comparision:rolleyes: kobe could never fit in jordans jock strap. he will never be like mike. MJ is the best SG to ever play this game. kobe is a ballhog.
[QUOTE]04' Bryant? He shot under 43.8% and averaged 24 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.1 apg. I know part of the drop in his numbers was because of Malone and Payton but still his shooting % was too low.[/QUOTE]
'04. not 04'. i've told you about this. its '04. the "'" comes before the abbreviated year. yes, kobe shot the ball worse, but he was a much more mature player, and a much better defender than the rookie michael jordan. the pace of the game in '85 was also alot quicker than the '04 pace aswell. bryant also shot free throws better, and actually had a game outside 15 ft. its close, but bryant wins.
[QUOTE]As far as 00' Kobe being better than 85' Jordan....not even close. 01' is debatable too.[/QUOTE]
both years bryant was clearly the better player.
Yeah the game had a faster pace but the defense was also much tougher.
1985 Michael Jordan- 28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 spg, 51.5 FG%, 84.5 FT%, 82 games
2004 Kobe Bryant 24.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.7 spg, 43.8 FG%, 85.2 FT%, 65 games
2000 Kobe Bryant 22.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.6 spg 46.8 FG%, 82.1 FT%, 66 games
2001 Kobe Bryant 28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 46.9 FG%, 85.3 FT%, 68 games
Jordan played in all 82 games in the 1985 season, rebounded better and average more assists than Kobe in any of those years. He got more steals and shot a much better %. He also scored far more than Kobe did in 2000 or 2004.
Jordan also had to lead his team. Kobe was not the best player on his team in any of those years and he missed an 14 games in 2001, 16 games in 2000 and 17 games in 2004.
As for Jordan not having a game past 15 feet well Jordan came into the league already with an 18-20 foot jumper. Back in the early to mid 80's not many people had a game past the 3 point line which is why Isiah Thomas once finished second in 3P% despite shooting under 30%.