Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch Vertical

[QUOTE]How does that video prove anything one way or another? The guy is documented at 7 foot and he still looks like he's almost a foot away form his head being at the rim. The camera is pointed up, distorting the angle on the replay. The first shot is from a camera overhead, AGAIN, distorting the angle.

It's called perspective.

It's like you totally ignored everything I said above.

You're not going to prove anything from a video without having a measuring stick under the guys feet.

Mathius[/QUOTE]

Some of the most impressive dunks and blocks of modern NBA players are performed from Wilt's jumping position and from this angle and yet it's still considered impressive if a guy of Wilt's size jumps that high. It's also considered great athleticism if a normal sized guy's head reaches at that position, again from the same angle. At least, unlike some other plays, if you see Wilt's feet, they step in the paint (=close to the basket) before and after the jump, which means that the distortion isn't as big as in other cases. Yes, in still exists, but so does it in the second one. I don't think that's a whole foot away from the basket.

The are plays with better angles, anyway, with Wilt still jumping high. The one in my avatar (seen also in [url]http://wiltfan.tripod.com/pictures.htm[/url] at "Phili 2") is imo an indicator of more than 24'' of vertical leap, regardless of distortion.

[QUOTE]I've heard of him triple jumping 50 feet (which depends a lot on strides and not vertical) but never long jumping 22 feet.[/QUOTE]

It's actually found in the same source with the "24 inch" claim (Sporting News), which further disproves this claim. I quote:

[QUOTE]Wilt is not a one-sport man, either. At Overbrook High School in Philly, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, broad jumped 22 feet. Bill Easton, Jayhawks track boss, predicts Wilt will reach 7 feet in the high jump if he concentrates on it. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Psileas]Some of the most impressive dunks and blocks of modern NBA players are performed from Wilt's jumping position and from this angle [/QUOTE]

It still doesn't prove how high they're jumping. You can't prove it from a picture, without a definite benchmark of some kind.

He could jump 7 feet off the ground for all I care, but you're not gonna prove it in those shots.

Mathius

[QUOTE]It still doesn't prove how high they're jumping. You can't prove it from a picture, without a definite benchmark of some kind.

He could jump 7 feet off the ground for all I care, but you're not gonna prove it in those shots.

Mathius[/QUOTE]

Of course it doesn't prove so, but I mean that even from that angle (and from Wilt's position), it's still not a usual spectacle to find a big man to jump that high. The few ones who can are credited with more than 24'' of vertical.

[QUOTE=Psileas]Of course it doesn't prove so[/QUOTE]

Then why are you still arguing?

Mathius

[IMG]http://www.explorepahistory.com/images/ExplorePAHistory-a0l0v1-a_349.jpg[/IMG]

That picture looks pretty fake. A photoshop before photoshop was invented.

[QUOTE]Then why are you still arguing?

Mathius[/QUOTE]

I'm arguing against the 24-inch claim. Even plays at these angles indicate a vertical of more than that (this would mean that, at his highest point, his head would still be almost a foot below the rim and you need some serious angle distortion to make such a player's head look close to the rim), as do his track and field results (sorry, no 24-inch leapers participate at high levels of high jump, even at high school).

In general, never in modern human history was 24 inches of vertical jump considered great athleticism. Not in 1950, not in 1900, not in ancient Greece and Rome. Certainly not in Wilt's time, either.

[QUOTE]That picture looks pretty fake. A photoshop before photoshop was invented.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it is, though it's not something that a good leaper is unable to do. Their standing/jumping positions are pretty unusual, too, if we are to consider the possibility that they are cuts from different photos.

[QUOTE=Psileas]I'm arguing against the 24-inch claim. Even plays at these angles indicate a vertical of more than that (this would mean that, at his highest point, his head would still be almost a foot below the rim and you need some serious angle distortion to make such a player's head look close to the rim), as do his track and field results (sorry, no 24-inch leapers participate at high levels of high jump, even at high school).

In general, never in modern human history was 24 inches of vertical jump considered great athleticism. Not in 1950, not in 1900, not in ancient Greece and Rome. Certainly not in Wilt's time, either.[/QUOTE]

None of that crap matters. You realize they've shot entire movies using nothing more than visual effects with the camera from odd angles? I can't believe you're still arguing this.

I don't give a damn what Wilt's vertical is. That's irrelevant. What I'm telling you, is you're never going to prove what it is from video footage.

You keep arguing like you're offended that anyone would question Wilt's vertical and your video footage is some kind of proof based on comparison's to today's players. It's not. It proves nothing. For all the reasons I've already listed.

I don't care what Wilt's vertical is. I'm not arguing that. Personally I feel he's overrated, but that doesn't have anything to do with it either. He could have a vertical of 42" for all I know. Don't know. Don't care. Point is, it can't be proved by video footage.

If you can't understand that, then I don't know what else to say to you. I really don't have anything more to add to this thread.

Mathius

[QUOTE]None of that crap matters. You realize they've shot entire movies using nothing more than visual effects with the camera from odd angles? I can't believe you're still arguing this.

I don't give a damn what Wilt's vertical is. That's irrelevant. What I'm telling you, is you're never going to prove what it is from video footage.

You keep arguing like you're offended that anyone would question Wilt's vertical and your video footage is some kind of proof based on comparison's to today's players. It's not. It proves nothing. For all the reasons I've already listed.

I don't care what Wilt's vertical is. I'm not arguing that. Personally I feel he's overrated, but that doesn't have anything to do with it either. He could have a vertical of 42" for all I know. Don't know. Don't care. Point is, it can't be proved by video footage.

If you can't understand that, then I don't know what else to say to you. I really don't have anything more to add to this thread.

Mathius[/QUOTE]

Man, I'm not saying I use this footage to shot how high he is able to jump. But some of it is just enough to know how low he didn't jump. Forget numbers for a while. We see plays from this certain angle all the time and each time some play happens [B]under these circumstances of angle distortion[/B] and with their feet stepping in the paint the whole time, even the most athletic big men are not able to get much higher than this. Going by numbers, if Wilt is seriously jumping only 24 inches, then I've never seen any big man ever jump more than around 30-32 from that position (and I'm basically talking about 6-10 guys, not 7-1 ones). Now, unless you can show me that the angles in the videos I've shown are way more exaggerated than the angles of today's games (which I strongly doubt), I think it's some good measuring stick for rough comparisons to other players. Maybe not the most accurate one, but you have to completely lack perception if you can't just make some rough comparisons between players jumping from the same spot and seen from the same (or, at worst, a pretty similar) angle.
Also, if you have some footage that proves otherwise (like plays with big guys who, under these conditions are able to jump head and shoulders above this), I'd like to see this. Shaq, for example, supposedly, depending on the sources, had something like a 32 to 36-inch vertical. I'd like to see him jump 8-12 inches more than this under these circumstances at any clip and any play of his career.

You find me one athlete throughout history who can ran olympic qualifying times and do high jump at a world level that can only jump 24inches. You've got to be kidding me. Any 7foot stiff in the NBA can jump 24inches.

maybe this was already posted but in 1958 wilt

"...showed his athletic versatility by winning the high jump competition in the[B] Big Eight track and field championships[/B], clearing the bar at [B]6-6[/B]."

[URL="http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html"]http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html[/URL]

Wilt is a great player , maybe not athletic by today's standards, but people seem to forgot that people, technology everything progresses. This is like comparing a brick phone to a iPhone. Not possible.

Just goes to show you how much of an athletic freak Shaq was.

Here's something I've yet to actually read in this thread.......


Can someone explain how an untrained 7' 225lbs 19 year old with a no-step vertical of at least 24 inches who sets impressive track and field times for ANY era, let alone the 1950's, is just an "average" athlete?

[QUOTE]Wilt is a great player , maybe not athletic by today's standards, but people seem to forgot that people, technology everything progresses. This is like comparing a brick phone to a iPhone. Not possible.[/QUOTE]

Wilt was athletic by any standards. Again, read his track-field accomplishments as a high-schooler and college player and watch the (little, admittedly) footage existing. Of course, he would be even better and more athletic if he grew up nowadays, but actually he wouldn't need an ounce of additional athleticism to destroy competition.

Here's a nice pic of high-school Wilt (1st pic of the second page):

[url]http://pro.corbis.com/search/searchFrame.aspx[/url]