The Official 2nd Presidential Debate Thread - 10/7/08

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]Every human being should be entitled to heath-care, especially for children. [/QUOTE]

Let's inject some logic into this argument, and by that I mean formulaic logic.

What if students decided it was no longer worth spending their entire 20's with their heads burried in med-school books and spending their entire life savings paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in med school loans?

What if people simply stopped electing to become doctors? Your statement that it is every citizens right to have healthcare would become a problem. What would you propose, that the government force people to become doctors? Institute a doctor draft?

Life and liberty are rights. You can ensure those independently. Healthcare is dependent on people CHOOSING to become doctors. You cant MAKE people be doctors, and by extension, you cannot call healthcare a right. It is a SERVICE. If you cant understand that logic, you are a long way off from reality.

I'm glad I didnt watch this. I'm smarter because of this.

[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]This will be my 2nd time voting for president and the 2nd time I feel like I'm voting for the guy who'll **** up the country the least, and that'll probably be the case for the rest of my life.[/QUOTE]


Not on the day when you will have an opportunity to vote for me.

[QUOTE=Denali]Not on the day when you will have an opportunity to vote for me.[/QUOTE]

I'd vote for you.

[QUOTE=Denali]Well I do by all means hope people will question the background and motives of Barrack Hussein Obama.

Barrack Hussein Obama was born to a Muslim father. He has had a working relationship with a man who bombed the pentagon. He attended the church of a radical, racially-divisive preacher in Jeremiah Wright. A church that [URL="http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/obama_distances.html"]awarded Luis Farrakhan the Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award" and said that Farrakhan "epitomized greatness."[/URL]



[/QUOTE]

Your criticism of Obama's flimsy Senate record is valid. But I have a problem with the first part. First of all, why is it "sketchy" that Obama's father was a Muslim? I know that there've been allegations that Obama's lying about his religious background, which has been disputed numerous times. But even if Obama was a Muslim, why is this seen as such a negative thing?

Wright is someone who I felt was heavily demonized by the media, through soundbites that were largely taken out of context. If you look at the speeches he made in their entirety, he makes some very valid points, imo, about the wrongdoings of the US government coming back to haunt them. It's actually quite similar to Malcolm X's infamous "the chickens coming home to roost" comment regarding President Kennedy's assasination. As for the whole black liberation theology thing, its something that I feel most of mainstream white America doesn't really understand. The media, both left and right, did little to gain an understanding of it and merely assumed that it was some sort of racist radical movement. In reality, the theology deals with the paradox of black people following a religion that was widely used to justify their enslavement and prejudice against them. It's putting Christianity in a context that applies to the Black American experience.

Farrakhan is a tough figure. I understand why Obama would want to distance himself from him. I certainly don't agree with many of his stances, particular those involving Jewish people and gay people. Despite his many faults, the man has done many positive things for the black community that the media fails to publicize. The award he won was largely in recognition for those things.

Obama's "working relationship" with Ayers is overblown. They worked together in an anti-poverty group. As an Obama spokesman mentioned, to connect Obama to an organization and event that occurred when he was only 8 years old is ridiculous. Ayers was a completely different person when they worked together with a different mindset and outlook.

[QUOTE=Hawker]I'd vote for you.[/QUOTE]


thank you son, and your efforts will not be forgotten when it is time to select my cabinet!




.....but seriously i intend to run for the presidency later during the course of my life

[QUOTE=Denali]thank you son, and your efforts will not be forgotten when it is time to select my cabinet!




.....but seriously i intend to run for the presidency later during the course of my life[/QUOTE]

As long as its in 3 years you got my vote brah.

*just realized it has to be in atleast 4 years.... phail

[QUOTE=Denali]Let's inject some logic into this argument, and by that I mean formulaic logic.

What if students decided it was no longer worth spending their entire 20's with their heads burried in med-school books and spending their entire life savings paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in med school loans?

What if people simply stopped electing to become doctors? Your statement that it is every citizens right to have healthcare would become a problem. What would you propose, that the government force people to become doctors? Institute a doctor draft?

Life and liberty are rights. You can ensure those independently. Healthcare is dependent on people CHOOSING to become doctors. You cant MAKE people be doctors, and by extension, you cannot call healthcare a right. It is a SERVICE. If you cant understand that logic, you are a long way off from reality.[/QUOTE]

Your argument is illogical and irrelevant. Suggesting the health care infrastructure could somehow not support increased business is ridiculous. Furthermore, there has been an expansion of rights in the United States since its conception beyond life and liberty; many people want to include health care with that now.

[QUOTE=Denali]Let's inject some logic into this argument, and by that I mean formulaic logic.

What if students decided it was no longer worth spending their entire 20's with their heads burried in med-school books and spending their entire life savings paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in med school loans?

What if people simply stopped electing to become doctors? Your statement that it is every citizens right to have healthcare would become a problem. What would you propose, that the government force people to become doctors? Institute a doctor draft?

Life and liberty are rights. You can ensure those independently. Healthcare is dependent on people CHOOSING to become doctors. You cant MAKE people be doctors, and by extension, you cannot call healthcare a right. It is a SERVICE. If you cant understand that logic, you are a long way off from reality.[/QUOTE]

In today's world... with today's advancements in medicine and medical readability ... [b]everyone[/b] should have no issue getting a standard level of health-care, [b]and[/b] the professionals get their pockets filled all in the process.

The problem is the government's lack of health-care spending and planning structures. We're giving Wall Street 700+ billion dollars so CEOs can still play golf on Tuesday afternoon instead of investing that type of money or even a fraction into the heath-care system, where it would be much better utilized.

Don't come back with the "bailout" saving all the "desk jobs" because that is not where the heart of this bailout deal is about... it's about the Feds buying back worthless stock only to make a huge profit in the years coming up. It's like taking out a personal loan, from yourself!... then paying yourself back interest!!!

:hammerhead:

Wake up people...

[QUOTE=Denali]thank you son, and your efforts will not be forgotten when it is time to select my cabinet!




.....but seriously i intend to run for the presidency later during the course of my life[/QUOTE]

What's incredibly sad here, is that you honestly believe this doo-doo. You'll probably sit there and think to yourself, "more fuel to the fire!" by seeing comments such as mine, but you and I both know you'll do nothing more than grow old and look back on all this and say to yourself "holy sh*t... I really was this much of a fu*king e-diot... Legend of Josh was right... I just didn't listen..."

:hammerhead:

[QUOTE=blasian] First of all, why is it "sketchy" that Obama's father was a Muslim?[/QUOTE]

In and of itself, it is harmless. Parents do not genetically pass on their religious affiliations. However, for a guy who did develop known associations with radicals throughout his life, to me personally it does raise a red flag that he is born of a man who belongs to the most fervently anti-american faith on the planet. How do you really know this is a guy who America can trust? He came to the Senate for four years, hardly voted, and as soon he was able to muster the popularity to make a Presidential run he jumped for it. This guy reeks of an opportunist. I think he has liberals fooled with all his majestic "change washington" sloganisms. I smell a rat plain and simple.

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Your argument is illogical and irrelevant. Suggesting the health care infrastructure could somehow not support increased business is ridiculous. Furthermore, there has been an expansion of rights in the United States since its conception beyond life and liberty; many people want to include health care with that now.[/QUOTE]


let's break this down line by line to see if we can find the substance:

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Your argument is illogical and irrelevant. [/QUOTE]
nope.

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Suggesting the health care infrastructure could somehow not support increased business is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Nothing here. You used words like 'infrastructure' to sound informed, but I see nothing that relates to the problem of calling something a right that is directly dependent on someone else's free market choice.

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Furthermore, there has been an expansion of rights in the United States since its conception beyond life and liberty; many people want to include health care with that now.[/QUOTE]

Lastly, you reaffirmed your original (and incorrect) position that you in fact do believe healthcare is a right. You even drove the nail home by including "many people" as your peers on the issue. But yet.....you did nothing to address the logical inconsistency of your line of thinking.


I'm sorry douche wallace. You've failed again. Unfortunately for you, reading pie charts all day doesnt make you an intuitive thinker. You are destined to muddle in futility with the other 95% of your ilk, while you each take a side and pretend you know better than the other. YOU F-A.I^L

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]
The problem is the government's lack of health-care spending and planning structures. [/QUOTE]

Our government may one day decide to provide healthcare to all individuals. But that does not establish healthcare as a right. It simply means the government will have decided to pickup the check at the expense of a select few taxpayers. I *HOPE* you can appreciate the difference.

1) I don't read pie charts

2) Infrastructure = doctors, hospitals, nurses, facilities, ambulances, supplies like medicine, etc. You insinuated there wasn't enough to support increased business brought on by socialized health care. That is ridiculous.

3) I may or may not believe health care is a right. It is a fact many people do, which is why I stated it. It is also a fact our "rights" have grown through time, beyond life and liberty. Perhaps you've heard of the Bill of Rights? It is also a fact that aforementioned people use this as an argument for health care being included in those rights.

4) Finally, wouldn't the right to "life" as you said, include proper health care?

5) DenaliFace you're an invalid who can only result to nonsense and insults.

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]1) I don't read pie charts

2) Infrastructure = doctors, hospitals, nurses, facilities, ambulances, supplies like medicine, etc. You insinuated there wasn't enough to support increased business brought on by socialized health care. That is ridiculous.

3) I may or may not believe health care is a right. It is a fact many people do, which is why I stated it. It is also a fact our "rights" have grown through time, beyond life and liberty. Perhaps you've heard of the Bill of Rights? It is also a fact that aforementioned people use this as an argument for health care being included in those rights.

4) Finally, wouldn't the right to "life" as you said, include proper health care?

5) DenaliFace you're an invalid who can only result to nonsense and insults.[/QUOTE]

I created a hypothetical where citizens elected to stop becoming doctors, to support a point that healthcare is not a right. Your response was "they'd never stop being doctors!" Despite the fact that I laid out a pretty clear foundation for the point, you either failed to understand it or intentionally neglected it for lack of a sensible refutation - probably the latter.

Owning guns can logically be considered a right. It cannot conflict logically with another persons will or rights. You can own a gun. Period. If nobody on the market is making one, you can make one yourself. You can own it no matter what. Habeas Corpus is a right. If you are being held, they have to let you see a judge. That doesnt conflict with anyone else's stated rights to keep you no matter what. If you say it is someone's RIGHT to be provided healthcare, then you are also implying that it is someones OBLIGATION to provide it to them. And thats simply not the case.

And I am pro choice. In fact I would have supported your mother wholeheartedly had she elected to abort.

I thought you were saying they couldn't support it. I see your argument was positively irrational and irrelevant. It's so implausible it's barely worth discussing.

If all the gun manufacturers in the world stopped making guns would the government have a gun maker draft so we still had the right to bear arms? Answer me that.

How many years does a person have to be wrong to realize they might want to rethink things a bit?

[QUOTE=Showtime]How many years does a person have to be wrong to realize they might want to rethink things a bit?[/QUOTE]


is the answer congruent to the length of time obama has served in the senate?

Apparently you have no answer?

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Apparently you have no answer?[/QUOTE]


ok, the answer is yes we would have a gun maker draft, so that we could do our civic duty and shoot all gays and muslims, and all the liberals who have dedicated their lives to ensuring they benefit from reverse-discrimination.

hap-E?

[QUOTE=YAWN][IMG]http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/That_One.gif[/IMG]
:oldlol:

[IMG]http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/589/picture4oa4.png[/IMG]


its gonna get ugly[/QUOTE]

Love that pin!!!!

[QUOTE=D.J.]I'm a new poster. I joined a few days ago.[/QUOTE]
Or how bout you are plowking, a known biased democrat. Pretty pathetic man.

[quote=Kumo][B]McCains camp isn't doing that though[/B]... but I see where you think the population being around that humor is dangerous though. But yeah, I kind of agree with you, but most know when a joke falls off to an insult...threat...etc.

btw - I haven't said he's a terrorist, I'm just saying its a joke when people say it.[/quote]

Sarah Palin has been doing that everyday since Saturday. And it's starting to show just how sad this campaign has become.

How in the heck are McCain/Palin putting "country first" when they are inciting PURE HATRED and DIVISIVENESS on the campaign trail?

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html?referrer=emailarticle[/url]

[QUOTE]"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy." [/QUOTE]

Maybe to you this is fine, however this is NOT the sort of leadership I want in my country.

[QUOTE=Denali]obama is a young, inexperienced, big-talking idealistic fan...


mccain has been doing this a long time and knows how foreign policy works, he knows how legislating works, he understands the principles of government and he is REALISTIC...

if you want steady, solid substance, vote mccain...
[/QUOTE]

Denali, what in McCain's experience led him to go on national television a few times prior to the Iraq war and state that success in the war would be "fairly easy" and that we could win an overwhelming victory in a relatively short time?

We are not looking for someone with experience for the sake of having experience. We're looking for someone who's experience will translate into good judgement. Obama, a neophyte, somehow managed to accurately call the war:

[QUOTE]I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the middle east, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Queda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I

[url]http://thatone2008.com/[/url]

Interesting how the bitterness comes out so aggressively here....



:pimp:

[QUOTE=MaxFly]Denali, what in McCain's experience led him to go on national television a few times prior to the Iraq war and state that success in the war would be "fairly easy" and that we could win an overwhelming victory in a relatively short time?

We are not looking for someone with experience for the sake of having experience. We're looking for someone who's experience will translate into good judgement. Obama, a neophyte, somehow managed to accurately call the war:



So it's laughable when I hear people harp about experience as one of McCain's primary advantages over Obama. How important is your experience if it doesn't inform your decisons or your thought process. Foreign policy is an area where McCain should dominate Obama, yet inspite of all his experience, McCain was the one who called Iraq incorrectly.[/QUOTE]


Its laughable when people on the right still criticize Obama for inexperience, when they thought it was fine that Palin was a heartbeat away from the Presidency. I thought they stopped using that card after realizing how hypocritical they come across by supporting Palin as the greatest candidate ever :rolleyes:

I guess someone didn't get the memo :hammerhead:

I'm just waiting for the first "n!gger" to be dropped by the McCain campaign.

Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.

[QUOTE=picc84]I'm just waiting for the first "n!gger" to be dropped by the McCain campaign.[/QUOTE]
:sleeping

Damn evil white people!!!!

[QUOTE=Heilige]Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.[/QUOTE]
dammit, I was gonna make a joke about 18 bil in earmmarks paying for it, but you beat me to it. it is funny to me that he cant seem to answer a question on any domestic policy (could be spay and neuter legislation for stray dogs or something) without bringing it back to earmarks and offshore drilling. Dude, 18 bil aint **** in our budget. Get over it. In the meantime, you just passed a bill with innumerable earmarks (the bailout bill) and all for the good of the country.

Also, that town hall format was a terrible idea for his campaign. he looked like a frail old man who could barely hobble around. a couple of times I thought he looked like a mystic from the dark crystal with that slow shuffle step.

[QUOTE=Heilige]Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.[/QUOTE]
McCain is going to do what he think is best for the American people. He knows that pork barrel spending is absolutely NOT what the American people want to do, but he seems to think this bail out plan is absolutely necessary.


Also why is no-one talking about Obama being the leading receiver of frannie may and freddie Mac dirty money????

[QUOTE=Smokee]Its laughable when people on the right still criticize Obama for inexperience, when they thought it was fine that Palin was a heartbeat away from the Presidency. I thought they stopped using that card after realizing how hypocritical they come across by supporting Palin as the greatest candidate ever :rolleyes:

I guess someone didn't get the memo :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]

Oh, let's not even get into Palin. I've heard people make the case that she's a quick study and will be up to speed by Jan 20th. This is all about attacking your opponents weakness, therefore, I have no problem with McCain and Co. attacking Obama on experience... I may not agree, but I can understand the attack. But to choose Sarah Palin to be VP after you've spent the better part of a month and a half hitting Obama on experience is ridiculous.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I like Sarah Palin. I think she's a very smart woman as well as an astute politician, and I think she would be a very attractive candidate in the future. However, she's just not ready, and it's not a question of her experience... it's a question of her knowledge base. She hasn't been in the habit of thinking about these national issues and developing her own individual stances. If she were running with a younger, healthier candidate at another time, perhaps... I personally believe that the vice presidency does somewhat lend itself to on the job training. But right now, we are in very turbulent times, the top of the ticket isn't the healthiest person ever, and he will need sage counsel on a myriad of issues. She isn't in the position to provide that right now.

[QUOTE=Heilige]Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.[/QUOTE]

This is what I like to see Heilige. Another republican realizing that the republican party is no longer being republican.

Voted 3rd Party people!

[QUOTE=MaxFly][B]Oh, let's not even get into Palin. I've heard people make the case that she's a quick study and will be up to speed by Jan 20th. This is all about attacking your opponents weakness, therefore, I have no problem with McCain and Co. attacking Obama on experience... I may not agree, but I can understand the attack. But to choose Sarah Palin to be VP after you've spent the better part of a month and a half hitting Obama on experience is ridiculous.[/B]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I like Sarah Palin. I think she's a very smart woman as well as an astute politician, and I think she would be a very attractive candidate in the future. However, she's just not ready, and it's not a question of her experience... it's a question of her knowledge base. She hasn't been in the habit of thinking about these national issues and developing her own individual stances. If she were running with a younger, healthier candidate at another time, perhaps... I personally believe that the vice presidency does somewhat lend itself to on the job training. But right now, we are in very turbulent times, the top of the ticket isn't the healthiest person ever, and he will need sage counsel on a myriad of issues. She isn't in the position to provide that right now.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a pretty good thing when you're comparing the experience of a Presidential Candidate and a VP candidate.

[QUOTE=Hawker]This is what I like to see Heilige. Another republican realizing that the republican party is no longer being republican.

Voted 3rd Party people![/QUOTE]
When was the last time a 3rd party candidate won a election.

[QUOTE=Cannonball]When was the last time a 3rd party candidate won a election.[/QUOTE]

When was the last time the democrats or republicans posted a decent candidate?

Probably when Clinton took office. He really didnt really screw up the country.

So since Gore/Bush, there hasnt been one decent candidate on either side. All it takes is people realizing that their candidate (demo/repub) no longer represents them and vote 3rd party to give 3rd parties MORE exposure and hope to destroy the mainstream party system.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is simply not enough for me. It shouldnt be for anybody.

[QUOTE=picc84]I'm just waiting for the first "n!gger" to be dropped by the McCain campaign.[/QUOTE]

Come on man, I don't think he's that kind of person. I do think he's pissed that he's losing... Look at this from his perspective; he's a war veteran who was captured and tortured; his father and grandfather were 4 star navy admirals; he worked his way up through the house and the senate and is now, 26 years later, one of the most powerful senators in the US; his wife is heiress to a multimillion dollar fortune... yet somehow he's losing to a guy who's been in the senate for 4 years and isn't even the senior senator of his own state... To put it another way, he feels like Hillary felt a few months back. There is a sense that this is owed to him and he just can't believe it's being taken away by someone who hasn't paid the same dues he has.

[quote=Heilige]Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.[/quote]

Now my friend, you are starting to understand why I have been unhappy with the republican party in general... It is not the same party that I had supported for years and why I am not voting for McCain/Palin.



:pimp:

[quote=MaxFly]Come on man, I don't think he's that kind of person. [B]I do think he's pissed that he's losing[/B]... Look at this from his perspective; he's a war veteran who was captured and tortured; his father and grandfather were 4 star navy admirals; he worked his way up through the house and the senate and is now, 26 years later, one of the most powerful senators in the US; his wife is heiress to a multimillion dollar fortune... yet somehow he's losing to a guy who's been in the senate for 4 years and isn't even the senior senator of his own state... To put it another way, he feels like Hillary felt a few months back. There is a sense that this is owed to him and he just can't believe it's being taken away by someone who hasn't paid the same dues he has.[/quote]

His disdain for "that one" is so obvious, its a sign of his weakness. I want my president to look and act presidential, particularly in the face of adversity. If he gets bent over Obama, how is going to look and act in a world stage? How would the world take him seriously?

America needs to be strong in this world with representatives that people respect, not joke about or fear.



:pimp: