Gervin " "I could get 30 or 40 every night real easy, these days"

[QUOTE=plowking]You change your criteria everytime. First you were asking for unique athletes. Then you say "they can't do this, they can't do that", then I find you a player again and the cycle continues.

There are just as many unique players today as before. Find me a player like Lebron. Find me one like Howard. Find me one like Yao.

Go on, I am waiting.[/QUOTE]

[B]Magic was like Lebron except he had a Post Up Game, Had the Hook Shoot, Could Pass Better from any where on the Court and Was a Better Rebounder. Magic could Play PG, Point PF (not just Point SF) and Center!

Yao? Well Look for Ralph Sampson: Could Ball Handle like a G, Be as Quick as a G, as Versetaile as SF and could Actually Leap[/B]

Sir Charles, would you mind not bolding your post? Its kinda of an eye sore for me, sorry

[QUOTE=Nash-tastic]Sir Charles, would you mind not bolding your post? Its kinda of an eye sore for me, sorry[/QUOTE]

Really, its usually what he writes thats sore on the eyes.

[B][U]Average NBA Height Year By Year from 1985 to 2008[/U]:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]1985-86 = 6’ 7.36” [/COLOR]
[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]1986-87 = 6’ 7.62” [/COLOR] [/SIZE] (Tallest Year in NBA History)
[COLOR="DarkRed"]1987-88 = 6’ 7.38"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]1988-89 = 6’ 7.31” [/COLOR]
1989-90 = 6’ 7.09”

1990-91 = 6’ 7.16”
1991-92 = 6’ 7.04”
1992-93 = 6’ 7.06”
[COLOR="DarkRed"]1993-94 = 6’ 7.34” [/COLOR]
1994-95 = 6’ 7.19”
1995-96 = 6’ 7.27”
1996-97 = 6’ 7.20”
1997-98 = 6’ 7.11”
1998-99 = 6’ 7.10”
1999-00 = 6’ 7.26”

2000-01 = 6’ 7.03”
2001-02 = 6’ 7.26”
[COLOR="DarkRed"]2002-03 = 6’ 7.40” [/COLOR]
[COLOR="red"]2003-04 = 6' 7.31" [/COLOR]
2004-05 = 6' 7.26"
2005-06 = 6' 7.18"
[I]2006-07 = 6' 6.93" (Shortest In the Last 22 years)
2007-08 = 6' 6.98" (Shortest In the Last 23 years)[/I]

It actually looks like that at "Average"... NBA "Average Heights" have gotten shorter from the mid 80s to the 2000s :roll: :rolleyes: :confusedshrug: [/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B][U]Average NBA Height Year By Year from 1985 to 2008[/U]:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]1985-86 = 6

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B][U]Average NBA Height Year By Year from 1985 to 2008[/U]:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]1985-86 = 6

is this scrawny guy saying he could score with LeBron and Kobe LMAO

that's a laugh

[QUOTE=Skywalker]is this scrawny guy saying he could score with LeBron and Kobe LMAO

that's a laugh[/QUOTE]

He could, just not as much as he is saying.

[QUOTE]You need to take into consideration the fact, that these averages were hugely inflated back in the 80's, when a lot of scrub stiffs were playing - Manute Bol's, Muresan's and etc. Nowadays these joke of a players wopuldn't make an NBA team. The tallest player today is Yao Ming, who also appears to be a really good player[/QUOTE]

First of all, Bol and Muresan were only 2 of the 400+ players of the NBA, so even taking them away wouldn't significantly reduce the average height.

Second, Muresan wasn't as bad as you make him to be. Not Yao, but certainly he could easily play if he were at his prime today. After all, he did average 14.5 ppg and 9.6 rpg, while leading the NBA in FG% back in 1996, when the average center quality was higher than today. Hell, people talk about Sun Ming Ming trying to make it to the NBA and Sun, from the videos I've seen, makes Muresan look graceful. Want someone who actually played in the NBA? Pavel Podkolzin was 7'5, played for 2 seasons (2005-2006) and was worse than Muresan/Bol.

Third, Muresan and Bol shared only 2 seasons.

Hey Psileas is that Wilt dunking in that photo?

Mind giving me the link for the picture?

[QUOTE=madmax]You need to take into consideration the fact, that these averages were hugely inflated back in the 80's, when a lot of scrub stiffs were playing - Manute Bol's, Muresan's and etc. Nowadays these joke of a players wopuldn't make an NBA team. The tallest player today is Yao Ming, who also appears to be a really good player[/QUOTE]

[B]Muresan was a 90s player...[/B]

[B]Manute was a scrub Rebounding Wise but Defensive Wise with his Agil Body and Frame, especially Shot Blocking Wise, he is Probably the Greatest Shot Blocker Per Minute Ever[/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bolma01.html[/url]

[B]3.3 BPG at 18.7 MPG. [/B]


[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_pct_career.html[/url]

[B]Career Leaders and Records for Block Pct[/B]

[B]NBA/ABA Rank Player BLK%

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="DarkRed"]1. Manute Bol 10.17 [/COLOR][/SIZE]
2. Shawn Bradley 7.83
3. Theo Ratliff 7.27
4. Greg Ostertag 6.97
5. Mark Eaton 6.92
6. Alonzo Mourning 6.57
7. Marcus Camby 6.46
8. Adonal Foyle 6.41
9. Dikembe Mutombo 6.28
10. George Johnson 6.26
11. Tree Rollins 6.24
12. Andrei Kirilenko 6.14
13. David Robinson 5.69
14. Hakeem Olajuwon* 5.39
15. Ben Wallace 5.20
16. Harvey Catchings 5.07
17. Jermaine O'Neal 5.05
18. Elmore Smith 5.01
19. Patrick Ewing* 4.75
20. Ervin Johnson 4.73
21. Charles Jones 4.70
22. Shaquille O'Neal 4.69
23. Alton Lister 4.65
24. Tim Duncan 4.64
25. Andrew Lang 4.59
26. Zydrunas Ilgauskas 4.51
27. Wayne Cooper 4.32
28. Benoit Benjamin 4.31
29. Elden Campbell 4.28
30. Bill Walton* 4.24 [/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_per_g_career.html[/url]

[B]Career Leaders and Records for Blocks Per Game

NBA/ABA Rank Player BPG

1. Mark Eaton 3.50 (80s)
[COLOR="darkred"][SIZE="4"]2. Manute Bol 3.34[/SIZE][/COLOR] (80s)
3. Hakeem Olajuwon* 3.09
4. David Robinson 2.99
5. Elmore Smith 2.90
6. Alonzo Mourning 2.81
7. Dikembe Mutombo 2.76
8. Marcus Camby 2.68
9. Theo Ratliff 2.63
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 2.57
11. Shawn Bradley 2.55
12. George Johnson 2.46
13. Patrick Ewing* 2.45
14. Shaquille O'Neal 2.42
15. Tim Duncan 2.42
16. Artis Gilmore 2.39 [/B]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[B]The tallest player today is Yao Ming but he can hardly do things on an aging slow Shaq while in the 90s you had Robinson (89-should have been an 87 draft), Hakeem (84 draft) schooled Shaq, Ewing (85 draft) and Zo (92 draft) play great against a PRIME SHAQ :confusedshrug:

Other threee centers that played quite well against Shaq was Divac, Rick Smits and a crippled Sabonis (in the 80s = TOP 5 Center Ever With Ease).

What do Both These 3 Players Share in Common?

They Play like 80s Players, With Great Fundamentals. Coincidence? :rolleyes:[/B]

[B]Scrubb & Stiffs? Actually todays PFs-Cs are Scrubs and Stiffs compared to Barkley-Worthy-McHale (in the Post any one is scrub compared to him)-Sampson-Larry Nance-Malone-Tarpley-Perkins(fundamentals my friends!)-Coleman-Kemp-Webber

In the SF position its even more humilating while the 80s was the Best Time Ever for the SF position:: Bird-Doctor-Cedric Maxwell-Alex English-Nique-Chambers-Adrian Dantley-Bernard King-Mark Aguirre-Vandeweghe-Terry Cummings-Mullin-Pippen-McDaniel etc

All These Players had Superior Fundamentals, Skills, B-Ball IQ, Passing Game and Shooting than 95% of the SFs of today

Strangley enough the Second Best SF in the league resembles the Fundamentals of the 80s PLayers: Paul Pierece

Strangley enough the Best SF of the league has the Passing Game and can Rebound similar to Magic: Lebron..

..The rest can jump nice, dunk cool, look flashy and thats about it.[/B]

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Muresan was a 90s player...[/B]

[B]Manute was a scrub Rebounding Wise but Defensive Wise with his Agil Body and Frame, especially Shot Blocking Wise, he is Probably the Greatest Shot Blocker Per Minute Ever[/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bolma01.html[/url]

[B]3.3 BPG at 18.7 MPG. [/B]


[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_pct_career.html[/url]

[B]Career Leaders and Records for Block Pct[/B]

[B]NBA/ABA Rank Player BLK%

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="DarkRed"]1. Manute Bol 10.17 [/COLOR][/SIZE]
2. Shawn Bradley 7.83
3. Theo Ratliff 7.27
4. Greg Ostertag 6.97
5. Mark Eaton 6.92
6. Alonzo Mourning 6.57
7. Marcus Camby 6.46
8. Adonal Foyle 6.41
9. Dikembe Mutombo 6.28
10. George Johnson 6.26
11. Tree Rollins 6.24
12. Andrei Kirilenko 6.14
13. David Robinson 5.69
14. Hakeem Olajuwon* 5.39
15. Ben Wallace 5.20
16. Harvey Catchings 5.07
17. Jermaine O'Neal 5.05
18. Elmore Smith 5.01
19. Patrick Ewing* 4.75
20. Ervin Johnson 4.73
21. Charles Jones 4.70
22. Shaquille O'Neal 4.69
23. Alton Lister 4.65
24. Tim Duncan 4.64
25. Andrew Lang 4.59
26. Zydrunas Ilgauskas 4.51
27. Wayne Cooper 4.32
28. Benoit Benjamin 4.31
29. Elden Campbell 4.28
30. Bill Walton* 4.24 [/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_per_g_career.html[/url]

[B]Career Leaders and Records for Blocks Per Game

NBA/ABA Rank Player BPG

1. Mark Eaton 3.50 (80s)
[COLOR="darkred"][SIZE="4"]2. Manute Bol 3.34[/SIZE][/COLOR] (80s)
3. Hakeem Olajuwon* 3.09
4. David Robinson 2.99
5. Elmore Smith 2.90
6. Alonzo Mourning 2.81
7. Dikembe Mutombo 2.76
8. Marcus Camby 2.68
9. Theo Ratliff 2.63
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 2.57
11. Shawn Bradley 2.55
12. George Johnson 2.46
13. Patrick Ewing* 2.45
14. Shaquille O'Neal 2.42
15. Tim Duncan 2.42
16. Artis Gilmore 2.39 [/B]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[B]The tallest player today is Yao Ming but he can hardly do things on an agin Shaq while in the 90s you had Robinson (89-should have been an 87 draft), Hakeem (84 draft) schooled Shaq, Ewing (85 draft) and Zo (92 draft) play great against a PRIME SHAQ :confusedshrug: [/B]

[B]Scrubb & Stiffs? Actually todays PFs-Cs are Scrubs and Stiffs compared to Barkley-Worthy-McHale (in the Post any one is scrub compared to him)-Sampson-Larry Nance-Malone-Tarpley-Perkins(fundamentals my friends!)-Coleman-Kemp-Webber

In the SF position its even more humilating while the 80s was the Best Time Ever for the SF position:: Bird-Doctor-Cedric Maxwell-Alex English-Nique-Chambers-Adrian Dantley-Bernard King-Mark Aguirre-Vandeweghe-Terry Cummings-Mullin-Pippen-McDaniel etc

All These Players had Superior Fundamentals, Passing Game and Shooting than 98% of the SFs of today

Strangley enough the Second Best SF in the league resembles the Fundamentals of the 80s PLayers: Paul Pierece

Strangley enough the Best SF of the league has the Passing Game and can Rebound similar to Magic: Lebron..

..The rest can jump nice, dunk cool and thats about it.[/B]

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Wait a second...

Barkley is not in either one of those lists. Are you saying he is no longer the greatest?

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Muresan was a 90s player...[/B]

[B]Manute was a scrub Rebounding Wise but Defensive Wise with his Agil Body and Frame, especially Shot Blocking Wise, he is Probably the Greatest Shot Blocker Per Minute Ever[/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bolma01.html[/url]

[B]3.3 BPG at 18.7 MPG. [/B]


[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_pct_career.html[/url]

[B]Career Leaders and Records for Block Pct[/B]

[B]NBA/ABA Rank Player BLK%

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="DarkRed"]1. Manute Bol 10.17 [/COLOR][/SIZE]
2. Shawn Bradley 7.83
3. Theo Ratliff 7.27
4. Greg Ostertag 6.97
5. Mark Eaton 6.92
6. Alonzo Mourning 6.57
7. Marcus Camby 6.46
8. Adonal Foyle 6.41
9. Dikembe Mutombo 6.28
10. George Johnson 6.26
11. Tree Rollins 6.24
12. Andrei Kirilenko 6.14
13. David Robinson 5.69
14. Hakeem Olajuwon* 5.39
15. Ben Wallace 5.20
16. Harvey Catchings 5.07
17. Jermaine O'Neal 5.05
18. Elmore Smith 5.01
19. Patrick Ewing* 4.75
20. Ervin Johnson 4.73
21. Charles Jones 4.70
22. Shaquille O'Neal 4.69
23. Alton Lister 4.65
24. Tim Duncan 4.64
25. Andrew Lang 4.59
26. Zydrunas Ilgauskas 4.51
27. Wayne Cooper 4.32
28. Benoit Benjamin 4.31
29. Elden Campbell 4.28
30. Bill Walton* 4.24 [/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_per_g_career.html[/url]

[B]Career Leaders and Records for Blocks Per Game

NBA/ABA Rank Player BPG

1. Mark Eaton 3.50 (80s)
[COLOR="darkred"][SIZE="4"]2. Manute Bol 3.34[/SIZE][/COLOR] (80s)
3. Hakeem Olajuwon* 3.09
4. David Robinson 2.99
5. Elmore Smith 2.90
6. Alonzo Mourning 2.81
7. Dikembe Mutombo 2.76
8. Marcus Camby 2.68
9. Theo Ratliff 2.63
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 2.57
11. Shawn Bradley 2.55
12. George Johnson 2.46
13. Patrick Ewing* 2.45
14. Shaquille O'Neal 2.42
15. Tim Duncan 2.42
16. Artis Gilmore 2.39 [/B]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[B]The tallest player today is Yao Ming but he can hardly do things on an agin Shaq while in the 90s you had Robinson (89-should have been an 87 draft), Hakeem (84 draft) schooled Shaq, Ewing (85 draft) and Zo (92 draft) play great against a PRIME SHAQ :confusedshrug: Other two centers that played well agains Shaq was Divac and Sabonis: Both Players with Extrame Fundamentals 80s Style Players [/B]

[B]Scrubb & Stiffs? Actually todays PFs-Cs are Scrubs and Stiffs compared to Barkley-Worthy-McHale (in the Post any one is scrub compared to him)-Sampson-Larry Nance-Malone-Tarpley-Perkins(fundamentals my friends!)-Coleman-Kemp-Webber

In the SF position its even more humilating while the 80s was the Best Time Ever for the SF position:: Bird-Doctor-Cedric Maxwell-Alex English-Nique-Chambers-Adrian Dantley-Bernard King-Mark Aguirre-Vandeweghe-Terry Cummings-Mullin-Pippen-McDaniel etc

All These Players had Superior Fundamentals, Passing Game and Shooting than 98% of the SFs of today

Strangley enough the Second Best SF in the league resembles the Fundamentals of the 80s PLayers: Paul Pierece

Strangley enough the Best SF of the league has the Passing Game and can Rebound similar to Magic: Lebron..

..The rest can jump nice, dunk cool and thats about it.[/B]

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

No they really didn't.

I provided stats showing that players shoot more jumpshots then players of the past.

[QUOTE=plowking]No they really didn't.

I provided stats showing that players shoot more jumpshots then players of the past.[/QUOTE]

[B]They have an easier time going past their man and not getting fouled (Real Fouls!) like what the 80s or 90s player suffered and 90% of the players today away from the Guard Positions can`t develop a decent passing game like Lebron and Pierce? Pfff no excuse [/B]

:oldlol: :violin:

[QUOTE]Hey Psileas is that Wilt dunking in that photo?

Mind giving me the link for the picture?[/QUOTE]

It's Wilt.

The link is: [url]http://wiltfan.tripod.com/pictures.htm[/url] (open the photo "Phili 2")

[QUOTE=Psileas]It's Wilt.

The link is: [url]http://wiltfan.tripod.com/pictures.htm[/url] (open the photo "Phili 2")[/QUOTE]

[B]Great Pic and Some Idiots of Today Say Wilt was an unathletic Scrub? :rolleyes:

Just Imagine Wilt with the 90s and 2000s Weight Lifting Programs (which by the way strenghens your overal all strength but not [U]your natural strength [/U]without excersize), Diets etc of today.

Wilt today would be like a 7`2 315 lbs maniac with arm strength like Karl Malone, great winspan and stamina-endourance like Dennis Rodman to add to his natural: leaping ability, body strength, arm strength etc.

Wilts winspan is insane even for a 7`2 er by the way

[url]http://wiltfan.tripod.com/pictures.htm[/url]

Pic 8

Wilts pathetic Leaping Ability:

Look at the Track Pics and See For Yourself (especially Pic 1 )

[/B]

Well, I agree, but let's not turn this topic into a Wilt one.

[QUOTE=madmax]You need to take into consideration the fact, that these averages were hugely inflated back in the 80's, when [B]a lot of scrub stiffs were playing - Manute Bol's[/B], Muresan's and etc. Nowadays these joke of a players wopuldn't make an NBA team. The tallest player today is Yao Ming, who also appears to be a really good player[/QUOTE]

Hey, watch your mouth :D

I don't think Gervin could do that at all on call. Or to say it'd be "easy" ...

Different game now. Less coked out players. More defense (I'd have loved to see him say this in the 90's) . . . more defensive strategy with the whole psuedo zone defense . . . athleticism is widely spread through out the league. No beating players off pure athleticism at all times.

The ICE MAN needs to be put on ICE with this comment. To say it so flippant and nonchalant and demeaning kind of offends me. Got that old man in the barbershop thing going on right now.

"I walked up hill to school both ways, thats how rough and tough I had it."

Me: "Not possible, old man."

[IMG]http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2932/08tmac3xv8.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081022/capt.20f83e1f14d1488991c2f5066077fec2.pacers_hornets_basketball_lawh105.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081022/capt.55de4891935a4e36b877e12d45c141f3.grizzlies_heat_basketball_aaa107.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=eliteballer][IMG]http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2932/08tmac3xv8.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081022/capt.20f83e1f14d1488991c2f5066077fec2.pacers_hornets_basketball_lawh105.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081022/capt.55de4891935a4e36b877e12d45c141f3.grizzlies_heat_basketball_aaa107.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Handchecking is very much prominent in todays basketball. People just ignore the fact. It is not called as strictly as it was the year it was introduced, though occasionally it does get called.

BTW Psileas thanks for the link.

Handchecking is very much prominent in todays basketball. People just ignore the fact. It is not called as strictly as it was the year it was introduced, though occasionally it does get called.

[B]None of them Are Driving On to the Basket or Going 1 on 1, They Are Just Standing There Palming or Holding the Ball[/B]

:rolleyes:

[B]Proof That in the 90s Began the Decline of NBA Basketball (2000s = Actual Puss**y League)[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=yhQewgWCd10[/url]

[B]The Amazing "Zone"/Modern Day Defense[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=9GZfgo8_z7Q&feature=related[/url]

[B]80s NBA Basketball[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=kYtjs0FqxoM&NR=1[/url]

[B]80s > 90s > 2000s :confusedshrug: [/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=4kYBeNQdSCc&feature=related[/url]

There is the difference.

Players in the 90's had more contact, players now have more players dropping down and helping players. Furthermore players now are forced into jumpshots decreasing their efficiency.

In that video I watched, look at the play at 2.35. 5 players drop down and help.

Plus Kobe said defense was better now so whatever a great player of the game says must be true... :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=plowking]In that video I watched, look at the play at 2.35. 5 players drop down and help.[/QUOTE]

Do you think that play illustrates something special? I understand that zone allows defenders to do certain things they previously couldn't do, but that isn't the best example to make your point. That same collapsing happened before zone to all great players (perimeter or interior) once they got inside on either post-ups or penetration.

That video is hysterical, btw. Dude is incredibly biased. Yeah, it's so hard to get to the basket that guys like James and Wade get inside on 35-40% of their shot attempts (to say nothing of the times they get fouled inside). That means that if they take 20 shots, 7-8 of them are coming inside, plus some other interior attempts that resulted in some of their 10+ FTA/gm.

Who the hell does this guy think he is:no:

[QUOTE=Loki]Do you think that play illustrates something special? I understand that zone allows defenders to do certain things they previously couldn't do, but that isn't the best example to make your point. That same collapsing happened before zone to all great players (perimeter or interior) once they got inside on either post-ups or penetration.

That video is hysterical, btw. Dude is incredibly biased. Yeah, it's so hard to get to the basket that guys like James and Wade get inside on 35-40% of their shot attempts (to say nothing of the times they get fouled inside). That means that if they take 20 shots, 7-8 of them are coming inside, plus some other interior attempts that resulted in some of their 10+ FTA/gm.[/QUOTE]


Just mute it. :D

Like you said the guy is extremely biased, though it does illustrate, how defense is played differently. It forces more jumpshots, like I pointed out, which doesn't allow wing players now to be as efficient as those playing in previous eras.

[QUOTE=StroShow4]the old/retired dudes always think they were better than the young/current dudes. nothing to see here, just another old man who doesn't like how the game has changed.[/QUOTE]

Well, he has played Pro Ball unlike everybody on this site dishing out their opinions. His opinion is probably more valid than anybody on this boards.

[QUOTE=allball]Allen Iverson, Earl Boykins and Gilbert Arenas can score in this league but Ice can't. too funny.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, a B grade guard like Joe Johnson averaged 25PPG last with little breakdown ability and GG can't score 30?:roll:

[QUOTE=mongePR(kb24)]AI is a better scorer than this guy and i dont see him avg 40 a game.[/QUOTE]

AI shoots 40%... GG shot 51% for his career.

[QUOTE=madmax]everything is evolving and improving,/QUOTE]

Yeah, America is getting better and better as time progresses..... Music is just getting better and better. Movies are just getting better and better.:lol

The NBA now is a league full of dumb players and is more or less passable entertainment and nothing more. That's why the NBA struggles to keep a fan base.

[B]Basketball IQ (especially court anwareness), Passing Game, Fundamentals has Gotten Worst than ever before. Stern`s desperate ways to create more Jordan`s or perimter players of similar caracteristics than can score big from the outside driving in or 1 on 1 has been enforced and their job made easier through creating of the handchecking rules, 3 second rule enforced so more perimter players have a chance to get inside easier, he has also taken away the excesive physical contact between inside players Cs,Pfs and Sfs making the NBA even softer than it already is after the flagrant foul rule (any foul is flagrant today), 5 scond rule back to the basket goes against inside stocky players that have a back the basket game etc...there is a favorization to perimter players over inside players (the Jordan effect) and zone defense has made it so in the book theoricaly it looks like defense is better but it has no results against players whom have fundamentals, passing game and know how to move and break that d with ease.[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Basketball IQ (especially court anwareness), Passing Game, Fundamentals has Gotten Worst than ever before. Stern`s desperate ways to create more Jordan`s or perimter players of similar caracteristics than can score big from the outside driving in or 1 on 1 has been enforced and their job made easier through creating of the handchecking rules, 3 second rule enforced so more perimter players have a chance to get inside easier, he has also taken away the excesive physical contact between inside players Cs,Pfs and Sfs making the NBA even softer than it already is after the flagrant foul rule (any foul is flagrant today), 5 scond rule back to the basket goes against inside stocky players that have a back the basket game etc...there is a favorization to perimter players over inside players (the Jordan effect) and zone defense has made it so in the book, theoricaly it looks like defense is better but when players have fundamentals, passing game and know how to move they can be broken with ease.[/B][/QUOTE]

Everything is better the last 2 or 3 years than it was from about 2000-2005, but it's still not all that.

[QUOTE=Hotlantadude81]Everything is better the last 2 or 3 years than it was from about 2000-2005, but it's still not all that.[/QUOTE]

[B]Haven`t seen much change since 1999 and by the Mid 90s one knew that the NBA`s level was going down. Many even precieved that since 1992 the game had gone soft and the league weakend to do to watering down[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles]
[B]None of them Are Driving On to the Basket or Going 1 on 1, They Are Just Standing There Palming or Holding the Ball[/B]
[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/52/fullj.d5d5d35abbc49c2f94f51438a687a458/d5d5d35abbc49c2f94f51438a687a458-getty-83027667ng005_blazers_clips.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081023/capt.16984fdd82914708b34af179823155c0.cavaliers_pistons_basketball_dtp106.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/1f/fullj.1626712c5cad155be9900cb5cab63962/1626712c5cad155be9900cb5cab63962-getty-83027671ae006pistons_cavs.jpg[/IMG]

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[B]Touching is not Handchecking[/B] :oldlol:

[B]This is Real Handchecking: This is How 80s-90s Legends Where Guarded[/B]

[B][U]Barkley`s 56 Points vs Webber-Sprewell-Mullin-Gatling[/U][/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=cAdMW4Hi8yI[/url]

[B]1st they put in a stocky Byron Houston: 6`6 ft/250 lbs...directly brought as a short stocky 6`6 breed to the Warrios to stop Barkley: No Result!

2nd they put in Chris Gatling: 6`10 ft /220-240 lbs: No Result!

*Minutes 1.58 to 2.05 and *Minutes 5.09 to 5.13 = Real Handchecking

*Two Handed Handchecking and a Foul on Both Shots no Call on Chucks Both Realeases.

*Today a Foul even Before Chuck gets those Shot`s Off.

3rd they put in Chris Webber: 6`9ft /245-255 lbs: No Result!

*Minute 6.14-6.19

Not Just Double Handedchecking But[U] Two Handed Pushing[/U]!..No Foul Called [/B]

[B][U]Jordan v.s the 92 Knicks[/U][/B]

[B]Part 1[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=dxBhQKtG2Zo[/url]

[B]Part 2[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=mBKQ4UozGMU[/url]

[B]Knicks Play-Off Way of Treatment on the Bulls[/B]

[B]Part 1[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=CsG2aMwEA6c[/url]

[B]Part 2[/B]

[B][COLOR="Blue"]*No Free Layups, No Free Drives, Handchecking Everywhere + Pushing Everwhere + Holding for Rebounds Everywhere etc[/COLOR][/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=KZLUV_Hc2_I&feature=related[/url]

[B]Resume of the Knick Treatment[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=_PjqMROm9RE&feature=related[/url]

[COLOR="blue"][B]80s Play-Off = No Free Layups, No Free Drives, Handchecking Everywhere + Pushing Everwhere + Holding for Rebounds Everywhere etc[/B][/COLOR]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=kYtjs0FqxoM&NR=1[/url]

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[B]Kobe 81 Point Game:

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Touching is not Handchecking[/B] :oldlol:
[/url][/QUOTE]

You don't understand the rules of basketball. Handchecking is either using your forearm to make contact or your palm. PUSHING is not part of basketball, which is why it has been more highly controlled. Players were starting to push the offensive players.

[QUOTE]HAND CHECKING



[B]Hand checking continues to be a concern and needs to be addressed. Hand checking, if allowed, leads to rough play if not penalized.[/B]


Each year the game is being played with more intensity by bigger and stronger players. [B]By rule, a player may not hold an opponent as the rules have no provisions for ignoring contact when a player impedes an opponent from making normal movement on the court.[/B]

[B]
Players need to understand that placing a hand on the offensive player’s body and “steering” them in a different direction is a foul. A defensive player using an “arm bar” against an opponent has committed a foul[/B].



Hand checking is not incidental contact. There are numerous advantages gained by a player that is allowed to use their hands in an excessive manner – quicker starts or stops, stopping/slowing or altering the movement of a player, displacing a player, controlling or anticipating an opponent’s next move. These pertain to both offense and defense, on or off the ball.



GUIDELINES


1. Address these at the beginning of the game, issue one warning if no disadvantage to offense and stay consistent throughout.



[B]2. If a player puts a hand on his/her opponent and leaves it there – IT IS A FOUL



3. If a player puts both hands on an opponent –IT IS A FOUL



4. If a player continually “jabs” or “tags” an opponent – IT IS A FOUL



5. If a player uses hands or forearms to guide or direct an opponent – IT IS A FOUL



6. If a defensive player displaces a cutter – IT IS A FOUL



7. In summary: anytime the defense places a hand(s) on an opponent and the opponent’s course is altered – IT IS A FOUL. This applies to both offensive and defensive players. Hand checking always creates an advantage.



For officials not to enforce the rules prohibiting hand checking is a disservice to the game.[/B]


Howard Mayo[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.oreofficials.org/files/sport%20pages/basketball/Hand%20checking.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=eliteballer]You don't understand the rules of basketball. Handchecking is either using your forearm to make contact or your palm. PUSHING is not part of basketball, which is why it has been more highly controlled. Players were starting to push the offensive players.


[url]http://www.oreofficials.org/files/sport%20pages/basketball/Hand%20checking.htm[/url][/QUOTE]

[B]I know that perfectly but what do you say to say on this:[/B]

[B][COLOR="Blue"]"PUSHING is not part of basketball, which is why it has been more highly controlled"[/COLOR]

[B]2. If a player puts a hand on his/her opponent and leaves it there – IT IS A FOUL


3. If a player puts both hands on an opponent –IT IS A FOUL


5. If a player uses hands or forearms to guide or direct an opponent – IT IS A FOUL[/B]

[COLOR="Red"]PUSHING FROM BEHINED DOUBLE HANDED ON BARKLEY + GUIDING WITH HANDS, right here on EVRY PLAY:[/COLOR][/B]

[B]94 Play-Offs:

[U]Barkley`s 56 Points vs Webber-Sprewell-Mullin-Gatling[/U][/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=cAdMW4Hi8yI[/url]

[B]a) 1st they put in a stocky Byron Houston: 6`6 ft/250 lbs...directly brought as a short stocky 6`6 breed to the Warrios to stop Barkley: No Result!

b) 2nd they put in Chris Gatling: 6`10 ft /220-240 lbs: No Result!

*Minutes 1.58 to 2.05 and *Minutes 5.09 to 5.13 = Real Handchecking

*Two Handed Handchecking and a Foul on Both Shots, No Foul Called on either of Chucks Both Realeases.

*Today a Foul even Before Chuck gets those Shot`s Off.

c) 3rd they put in Chris Webber: 6`9ft /245-255 lbs: No Result!

*Minute 6.14-6.19

*Not Just Double Handedchecking But[U] Two Handed Pushing[/U]!..No Foul Called!

[COLOR="Red"]Why is this not allowed today?[/COLOR]:confusedshrug: [/B]