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[QUOTE=Dasher]Al Jefferson put 40 on Okafor without breaking a sweat. Amar'e's and Pau have underrated strength. The only cat I would say he is stronger than is Dirk, but we both know that he has absolutely no chance of stopping Dirk.[/QUOTE]
Underrated strength? Pau is about as soft as it gets. His advantages over defenders is that he is quicker and has long arms which makes scoring over defenders for him easier.
[B]Which is the bigger player?[/B] I've read a few pages of conflicting opinions here and thought I'd bring some facts to the thread.
Emeka Okafor has a 9'4" standing reach.
Tyson Chandler has a 9'3" standing reach.
They are both centers. Okafor has 20 pounds on Chandler, and is more compact (he is almost 3" shorter). When drafted, Okafor had a .5 inch better vert, but he put on weight since then so he probably lost a few inches there.
[B]Which is the better defender?[/B] Hard to say. Both get blocks, but how much does that really tell you? Okafor is clearly more physical, but Chandler can move his lighter body better. Probably depends on defensive assignments and matchups.
[B]Which is the better rebounder?[/B] They are most similar here. But, I'll give the edge to the more physical player. Rebounding numbers aren't very useful in deciding this: great rebounding teams rebound by committe. You gotta watch tape.
[B]Which is the bigger offensive threat?[/B] Neither is going to be a first, second, or even third option player. Chandler is a great lob pass guy, probably better than Okafor is, and Paul is going to miss that assist play. But, Okafor is more likely to get inside the paint for a reason other than a put-back (even though he may be only a little bit more successful in the end). Paul will be frustrated when he drops a few sick passes because his court awareness just can't keep up with.
[B]This trade is about contracts and injuries.[/B] Chandler has been on the trade block for a while. NOH has tried to move him for garbage but failed because his toe injury is more serious than previously reported. Okafor recently signed a large, long contract and the 'Cats are feeling some buyers remorse going into the new economy. The teams are basically trading their problems to each other.
I don't get what Charlotte is trying to do. :confusedshrug:
Most of the trades they make, they seem to be on the downside of them.
Diaw and Bell for Richardson (arguable/ Suns win)
Radmonovic for Morrison and Brown (Lakers win)
Chandler for Okafor (Hornets win)
[QUOTE=TMT]I don't get what Charlotte is trying to do. :confusedshrug:
Most of the trades they make, they seem to be on the downside of them.
Diaw and Bell for Richardson (arguable/ Suns win)
Radmonovic for Morrison and Brown (Lakers win)
Chandler for Okafor (Hornets win)[/QUOTE]
We got WAAAAAAAAAAY better after the Diaw/Bell trade.
Radmonovic trade is eh.
Chandler for Okafor, we have yet to see how it pans out. I don't see how it could really hurt us, seeing as we didn't rely on okafor for offense.
[QUOTE=TMT]I don't get what Charlotte is trying to do. :confusedshrug:
Most of the trades they make, they seem to be on the downside of them.
[B]Diaw and Bell for Richardson (arguable/ Suns win)[/B]
Radmonovic for Morrison and Brown (Lakers win)
Chandler for Okafor (Hornets win)[/QUOTE]
what? the bobcats played above .500 ball after the trade. they made a massive improvement.
[quote=TMT]I don't get what Charlotte is trying to do. :confusedshrug:
Most of the trades they make, they seem to be on the downside of them.
Diaw and Bell for Richardson (arguable/ Suns win)
Radmonovic for Morrison and Brown (Lakers win)
Chandler for Okafor (Hornets win)[/quote]
:wtf: Diaw and Bell re-made the team into one of the best in the East 2nd half of the season. Morrison was a bust and begged to be traded. Vlad has been a big improvement considering Ammo was sitting on the bench contributing nothing. Who knows with the latest trade but I can tell you this: Mek was not improving from his rookie year.
[QUOTE=Dasher]He's not stronger than those guys. His post game is also not decent. Okafor is a shot blocking Al Horford w/o the intagibles.[/QUOTE]
he's probably stronger than most everybody you listed.
he's 6'10-6'11 255
outweighs
Amare by 5 lbs.
Dirk by 10 lbs.
Nene by 5 lbs.
Pau by 5 lbs.
You call these guys gargantuan compared to Okafor? LOL
some of them faster? some of them have much better touch? I can see that.
stronger? crazy talk. Look for different adjectives to frame your argument around.
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]:wtf: Diaw and Bell re-made the team into one of the best in the East 2nd half of the season. Morrison was a bust and begged to be traded. Vlad has been a big improvement considering Ammo was sitting on the bench contributing nothing. Who knows with the latest trade but I can tell you this: Mek was not improving from his rookie year.[/QUOTE]
he became considerably more efficient from the field he went from 44% to 53%,53%, and 56%
Once again, Okafor has a better standing reach than Chandler. 9'3 vs 9'4.
Bobcats like to make trades which seem to be a downgrade in talent "on paper" but getting guys that help you win games more.
Diaw and Bell for Rich looks like a downgrade, but actually helps Bobcats more
Same with Rad for Morrison, Morrsion more potential on paper, but Rad helps more
Gerald Henderson might have been a "reach" where he was taken, but a guy Brown really likes. Same with Augustin.
I get the same feeling with this trade. Okafor on paper is a better player, but Brown feels Chandler gives them what they need to win games. Brown has a methodology that seems to work.
[QUOTE=Luigi]Once again, Okafor has a better standing reach than Chandler. 9'3 vs 9'4.[/QUOTE]
and if you pull up draft Express' bench press ratings you'll see that the people saying he's weaker than certain other bigs out west are completely insane
reps of 185
Emeka = 22
Al Jefferson = 3
Amare = 12
and you know Pau, Dirk, and Tim aren't anywhere near the camp record of 22...set by you guessed it.
[QUOTE=bagelred]Bobcats like to make trades which seem to be a downgrade in talent "on paper" but getting guys that help you win games more.
Diaw and Bell for Rich looks like a downgrade, but actually helps Bobcats more
Same with Rad for Morrison, Morrsion more potential on paper, but Rad helps more
Gerald Henderson might have been a "reach" where he was taken, but a guy Brown really likes. Same with Augustin.
I get the same feeling with this trade. Okafor on paper is a better player, but Brown feels Chandler gives them what they need to win games. Brown has a methodology that seems to work.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you about the previous trades, but I don't see Chander as that kind of player. Diaw and Bell do give you a better team concept roster than JRich does, at the expense of some talent. But Okafor is a great teammate, a classy person, and a physical big man that plays defense. He does those team-type of tasks on the court. I don't see how Chandler can hope to fill that role better. I mean, for Diaw and Bell to improve the team, all they had to do was be more efficient than an aging chucker with an attitude. I'm not seeing that type of contrast between Chandler and Okafor. In fact, Okafor looks like the guy on the better end of the spectrum. This has gotta be financial, especially considering Chandler's health concerns. How bad is that toe?
I know that I vividly remember a healthy T Mac trying to mash on Okafor and getting his attempt viciously thrown.
[QUOTE=Luigi] This has gotta be financial, especially considering Chandler's health concerns. [/QUOTE]
Why would it be financial? Okafor is actually CHEAPER in the short run. So what if Okafor has more years on his contract? You could always manage the cap situation down the road differently. Chandler actually COSTS MORE now.
So if its financial, makes no sense.
[QUOTE=bagelred]Why would it be financial? Okafor is actually CHEAPER in the short run. So what if Okafor has more years on his contract? You could always manage the cap situation down the road differently. Chandler actually COSTS MORE now.
So if its financial, makes no sense.[/QUOTE]
You know as well as I do that 3 years of a contract makes a big difference. Plus, the Okafor's contract will eventually hit higher values than Chandler's. Is it really so far fetched to believe a team is making decisions for long term financial considerations?
Finances makes more sense than the team-player case too, imo.
[quote=lolwut]and if you pull up draft Express' bench press ratings you'll see that the people saying he's weaker than certain other bigs out west are completely insane
reps of 185
Emeka = 22
Al Jefferson = 3
Amare = 12
and you know Pau, Dirk, and Tim aren't anywhere near the camp record of 22...set by you guessed it.[/quote]
Don't listen to Dahser. He bashed Emeka because it fits his argument of Monroe being better than Blake Griffen (Dasher compares Howard to Monroe and Blake to Emeka).
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]:wtf: Diaw and Bell re-made the team into one of the best in the East 2nd half of the season. Morrison was a bust and begged to be traded. Vlad has been a big improvement considering Ammo was sitting on the bench contributing nothing. Who knows with the latest trade but I can tell you this: Mek was not improving from his rookie year.[/QUOTE]
Still failed to make the playoffs, and that's all that really matters. All of you who are getting offended by me saying Diaw, Bell for Richardson trade was a Suns win, that's the reason I stated "arguable".
Morrison, Brown to Lakers was still a win for the Lakers. Vlad wasn't contributing well, Brown broke out with the Lakers, and from what I am hearing Morrison was looking like a stud in the summer league and still has much more potential.
It seems to me like the Bobcats are filling their roster with solid role players, but they don't have a main guy on their team who can run the team.
[QUOTE=TMT]It seems to me like the Bobcats are filling their roster with solid role players, but they don't have a main guy on their team who can run the team.[/QUOTE]
Which is why you move Okafor's suffocating contract for a lesser but similar player.
[quote=Godfather]Don't listen to Dahser. He bashed Emeka because it fits his argument of Monroe being better than Blake Griffen (Dasher compares Howard to Monroe and Blake to Emeka).[/quote]Still on that? Greg Monroe provides skill level gives coaches way more options offensively than Blake does. The lack of exotic defenses in the NBA would also make Greg's superior driving ability and length that much more effective on the offensive end.
[quote=Dasher]Still on that? Greg Monroe provides skill level gives coaches way more options offensively than Blake does. The lack of exotic defenses in the NBA would also make Greg's superior driving ability and length that much more effective on the offensive end.[/quote]
Explain your comments on Emeka now.
And the bull **** you posted concerning strength and athleticism were disproved by lolwut.
[quote=Godfather]Explain your comments on Emeka now.
And the bull **** you posted concerning strength and athleticism were disproved by lolwut.[/quote]Not really? A grown man out lifted some high school kids. That same player now suffers from a back injury. Back injuries rob players of their strength, and explosiveness. That's why he does not finish around the rim well. He struggles against good centers, and eats up the hot garbage of the league.
[QUOTE=Dasher]Not really? A grown man out lifted some high school kids. That same player now suffers from a back injury. Back injuries rob players of their strength, and explosiveness. That's why he does not finish around the rim well. He struggles against good centers, and eats up the hot garbage of the league.[/QUOTE]
bulllllllllll**** he still posterizes "gargantuan western" players like greg oden around the rim
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtyeJ3PV0xQ[/url]
that's not struggling to finish...that's mashing.
[quote=lolwut]bulllllllllll**** he still posterizes "bigger stronger" players like greg oden around the rim
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtyeJ3PV0xQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtyeJ3PV0xQ[/URL][/quote]He was barely above the rim, and Greg did little to challenge that bucket. It was a token challenge. Notice both of them got little lift.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=913lYS8-Kuo[/url]
okafor throooooooooowing damp and dirk's weak ****
[QUOTE=Dasher]He was barely above the rim, and Greg did little to challenge that bucket. It was a token challenge. Notice both of them got little lift.[/QUOTE]
ROFL you're a complete tool he went straight to the rack hard and punched all over oden
[quote=lolwut]ROFL you're a complete tool he went straight to the rack hard and punched all over oden[/quote]No I am just not impressed with someone "punching" on a Greg Oden who did not go after the ball with force, or someone who blocks players who go to the rim soft like Damp and Dirk.
[QUOTE=TMT]Still failed to make the playoffs, and that's all that really matters. All of you who are getting offended by me saying Diaw, Bell for Richardson trade was a Suns win, that's the reason I stated "arguable".
Morrison, Brown to Lakers was still a win for the Lakers. Vlad wasn't contributing well, Brown broke out with the Lakers, and from what I am hearing Morrison was looking like a stud in the summer league and still has much more potential.
It seems to me like the Bobcats are filling their roster with solid role players, but they don't have a main guy on their team who can run the team.[/QUOTE]
the only reason the bobcats missed the playoffs is because bynum broke wallace's ribs.if that didnt happened,charlotte makes the playoffs.
the bobcats got the better end of the diaw/bell for richardson deal,because they charlotte greatly improved from the trade while the suns didn't.
vlad did contribute well.he was a reliable bench player,who played very good while wallace was injured.he brought far more to the team than morrison ever did.BTW,this summer isn't the first time morrison has played good in the summer league.morrison will never be a "stud" as you say.
bottomline,all the bobcats did was improve from all the trades they made last season.stop trying spin it,and make it seem like charlotte got worse.larry brown got guys in return who fit his system.IMO,this okafor/chandler trade is a wash if both guys stay healthy.
[QUOTE=Dasher]No I am just not impressed with someone "punching" on a Greg Oden who did not go after the ball with force, or someone who blocks players who go to the rim soft like Damp and Dirk.[/QUOTE]
this argument is almost as retarded as your strength argument...which is something beyond retarded
[QUOTE]the only reason the bobcats missed the playoffs is because bynum broke wallace's ribs.if that didnt happened,charlotte makes the playoffs[/QUOTE]
Injuries are part of the game. Even with Wallace, your chances at the playoffs were slim.
[QUOTE]the bobcats got the better end of the diaw/bell for richardson deal,because they charlotte greatly improved from the trade while the suns didn't.[/QUOTE]
You also lost the top scoring option on your team who was the only person on the team that could make his own shot. That will kill a team in the long run, especially for a team looking to contend, not just for a playoff spot, but to try and go deep into the playoffs.
[QUOTE]vlad did contribute well.he was a reliable bench player,who played very good while wallace was injured.he brought far more to the team than morrison ever did.BTW,this summer isn't the first time morrison has played good in the summer league.morrison will never be a "stud" as you say.[/QUOTE]
I'd say Brown's impact on the Lakers alone made the trade worthwhile for them. Morrison developing would be icing on the cake.
[QUOTE]bottomline,all the bobcats did was improve from all the trades they made last season.[B]stop trying spin it,and make it seem like charlotte got worse[/B].larry brown got guys in return who fit his system.IMO,this okafor/chandler trade is a wash if both guys stay healthy.[/QUOTE]
I think they did, in my opinion. They are trading youth/potential for veterans who would equally benefit the team. When it comes down to it, most of the trades they have made ( that being 2 out of the 3) have, in theory, made this team worse and put them in a situation where contending for a playoff spot will be tougher than before.
[QUOTE=TMT]Injuries are part of the game. Even with Wallace, your chances at the playoffs were slim.
You also lost the top scoring option on your team who was the only person on the team that could make his own shot. That will kill a team in the long run, especially for a team looking to contend, not just for a playoff spot, but to try and go deep into the playoffs.
I'd say Brown's impact on the Lakers alone made the trade worthwhile for them. Morrison developing would be icing on the cake.
I think they did, in my opinion. They are trading youth/potential for veterans who would equally benefit the team. When it comes down to it, most of the trades they have made ( that being 2 out of the 3) have, in theory, made this team worse and put them in a situation where contending for a playoff spot will be tougher than before.[/QUOTE]
just stop man,i watched over 60 bobcats games last year alone.i know what im talking about.BTW,the bobcats scoring average went UP after they traded richardson.richardson was nothing more than a black hole on offense.bell and diaw made our offense much better.
and before wallace got injured the bobcats were on a role.they had won 8 out of their last 12 games,and were only 2 games out the playoffs with 37 games left.after wallace got injured they lost 9 out of 12 games.bobcats had a GREAT chance to make the playoffs if not for wallace getting injured.
the bobcats before the trades couldnt even compete on most nights.after the trades they were capabale of beating any team on any given night.i live in charlotte,i know more about how the trades effected the bobcats than you do.so give it up.
[QUOTE=CarolinaBlue704]just stop man,i watched over 60 bobcats games last year alone.i know what im talking about.BTW,the bobcats scoring average went UP after they traded richardson.richardson was nothing more than a black hole on offense.bell and diaw made our offense much better.
and before wallace got injured the bobcats were on a role.they had won 8 out of their last 12 games,and were only 2 games out the playoffs with 37 games left.after wallace got injured they lost 9 out of 12 games.bobcats had a GREAT chance to make the playoffs if not for wallace getting injured.[/QUOTE]
Chill out there, bro.
Fact is, best case scenario for your team (if healthy and all) would have been knocking out the struggling Pistons for the final playoff spot and losing to the Cavs in the first round. Really not much of a difference. Even if you made a low playoff spot your team wasn't at a point to contend.
[QUOTE]the bobcats before the trades couldnt even compete on most nights.[B]after the trades they were capabale of beating any team on any given night.[/B]i live in charlotte,i know more about how the trades effected the bobcats than you do.so give it up.[/QUOTE]
Now with this statement you are going a bit overboard and your homerism is beggining to show. I know you are a strong supporter of your team. But even with the trades which in your opinion "make such a difference" they are on the bottom half of the weaker conference of the league.
seriously TMT, you really don't know what you're talking about lol. i don't mean to offend you, i really don't, but it's clear you haven't been following the bobcats at all, which is fine of course, seeing as how you're a spurs fan, but if you're uninformed, maybe it's best to simply not express your opinion?
the bobcats were 27-27 after the trade (not counting the final stretch of road games where the cats were already eliminated from the playoffs), which was a massive improvement from their 6-14 record before the trade. no matter how you spin it, the bobcats improved from that trade and were a respectable team that was able to compete each night. were they the best? hell no. but they could compete, and they achieved moderate success.
oh, and saying that our chances of making the playoffs with wallace were slim really isn't true. i don't think you realize how important g-force is to our offense. he's our number one option and is one of the most high energy players in the league. we're a mess without him.
[quote]You also lost the top scoring option on your team who was the only person on the team that could make his own shot.[/quote]
wallace can take the ball to the rim about as well as a lot of premier small forwards. he can get his own shot.
i'm really not upset or anything, you have your opinions and that's fine, but from what i've seen from your opinions, you're a bit ill-informed. i don't think you've watched enough bobcats games (not that i can blame you :cheers: )
[QUOTE=Quizno]seriously TMT, you really don't know what you're talking about lol. i don't mean to offend you, i really don't, but it's clear you haven't been following the bobcats at all, which is fine of course, seeing as how you're a spurs fan, but if you're uninformed, [B]maybe it's best to simply not express your opinion?[/B][/quote]
I respect your opinions as a Bobcats fan, even though I don't agree with them. And just as you can express yours, I see no reason not to express mine. You are right though, I can't say I have watched many Bobcats games but I just disagree mostly with the statement made previously that: "after the trade, the bobcats could have beat any team in the league".
[quote]the bobcats were 27-27 after the trade (not counting the final stretch of road games where the cats were already eliminated from the playoffs), which was a massive improvement from their 6-14 record before the trade. no matter how you spin it, the bobcats improved from that trade and were a respectable team that was able to compete each night. [B]were they the best? hell no. but they could compete, and they achieved moderate success.[/B][/quote]
This is what I was trying to get across. They might have improved a tad bit from their low standard of play before the trade, but no way were they one of the best in the league even with full health. Going 27-27 isn't idealy what a team hopes for. And trust me, being a Spurs fan, I can relate when it comes to injury.
[quote]oh, and saying that our chances of making the playoffs with wallace were slim really isn't true. i don't think you realize how important g-force is to our offense. he's our number one option and is one of the most high energy players in the league. we're a mess without him.
wallace can take the ball to the rim about as well as a lot of premier small forwards. he can get his own shot.
i'm really not upset or anything, you have your opinions and that's fine, but from what i've seen from your opinions, you're a bit ill-informed. i don't think you've watched enough bobcats games (not that i can blame you :cheers: )[/QUOTE]
Wallace isn't the most impactful player. Even with him for that stretch, I doubt he would have made an 8 or 9 game difference or enough for you to make a playoff push. I understand he is an important player in your system but isn't that big of a difference maker. Not to mention, I believe Vlad was playing well (not great, but well) while he went down.
[QUOTE=TMT]Chill out there, bro.
Fact is, best case scenario for your team (if healthy and all) would have been knocking out the struggling Pistons for the final playoff spot and losing to the Cavs in the first round. Really not much of a difference. Even if you made a low playoff spot your team wasn't at a point to contend.
Now with this statement you are going a bit overboard and your homerism is beggining to show. I know you are a strong supporter of your team. But even with the trades which in your opinion "make such a difference" they are on the bottom half of the weaker conference of the league.[/QUOTE]
first of all.i never said the bobcats were at a point to contend for a title.i said they had a great chance to make the playoffs and most likely would have if not for wallaces injury.it be HUGE for the city of charlotte if the bobcats just make the playoffs.not a big deal for you,but for fans of the bobcats it would a big step forward.
and yes,the bobcats were compatible of beating any team on any given night after the trades.even larry brown mention he thought they had a chance to win every game.if you watched many bobcat games after the trades you would know this.just ask laker fans.the bobcats even gave your spurs 2 very tough games last season.
the only thing beginning to show is that you haven't followed the bobcats very closely.just give it up and worry about your spurs.
my bad TMT, i shouldn't have said that you shouldn't express your opinion. you have every right to.
but the point that carolinablue was making was that we had the [b]ability[/b] to come out and compete with [b]any[/b] team after the trade. check out the cats' record vs elite teams, we beat the lakers twice, beat the celtics once and lost in an extremely close game where ray allen hit a buzzer beating 3, lost to the magic 107-102 and if i remember correctly we had a really close game with the spurs in san antonio. before the trade, our chances of even keeping a game close with any elite team were slim to none.
[QUOTE=TMT]I respect your opinions as a Bobcats fan, even though I don't agree with them. And just as you can express yours, I see no reason not to express mine. You are right though, I can't say I have watched many Bobcats games but [b]I just disagree mostly with the statement made previously that: "after the trade, the bobcats could have beat any team in the league".[/b][/QUOTE]
If you beat the NBA champions 2x, you have a chance to beat any team in the league (in the regular season). It's that simple.
[QUOTE=lolwut][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=913lYS8-Kuo[/url]
okafor throooooooooowing damp and dirk's weak ****[/QUOTE]
He never blocks dirk in that vid.
[QUOTE=Godfather]I don't understand why the Bobcats would do this :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Okafor was the most senior member of the Bobcats in terms of time with the team - being with the team from its inception. So he had control in the locker room due to seniority.
Now Larry Brown gets control in the locker room again, until he leaves of course.
Kind of like what Dumars did when he dumped Billups - to regain control of the locker room.
The Bobcats are a garbage team with no vision of what they are trying to do.
[QUOTE=BeebCats]If you beat the NBA champions 2x, you have a chance to beat any team in the league (in the regular season). It's that simple.[/QUOTE]
Two years ago the Wiz took 3 out of 4 against the soon to be champion Celtics. Means nothing.
[QUOTE=hawkfan]Okafor was the most senior member of the Bobcats in terms of time with the team - being with the team from its inception. So he had control in the locker room due to seniority.
Now Larry Brown gets control in the locker room again, until he leaves of course.
Kind of like what Dumars did when he dumped Billups - to regain control of the locker room.
The Bobcats are a garbage team with no vision of what they are trying to do.[/QUOTE]
Where the **** do you get this ****? You make up stories like this for no reason. You said TC was traded because he did something to piss off Shinn. Now you say Emeka is traded so Brown can get more power in the locker room. Dude, stop your fiction novels because you are a dumbass.