Wilt the "Choker"

[QUOTE]And yes, Wilt was double-teamed way less than later all-time great center.[/QUOTE]

What kind of defenses did Wilt face in his NBA career?

[url]http://biography.jrank.org/pages/233...lain-Wilt.html[/url]


Quote:
[B]Several of the rules of college basketball had to be changed as a result of Chamberlain's talents[/B], which simply dwarfed those of previous players. [B]Opposing players double-and triple-teamed him and played a slowed-down game rather than attempt to confront Chamberlain's offensive skills head-on[/B]. These techniques helped the University of North Carolina defeat Kansas 54-53 in triple overtime in the 1957 championship game.

Such tactics also frustrated the rapidly developing Chamberlain, who startled the basketball world by turning professional rather than returning to Kansas for his senior year. NBA rules forbade him from joining the league until the year in which he would have graduated from college, so Chamberlain played for the razzle-dazzle touring professional team the Harlem Globetrotters during the 1958-59 season. He joined the Philadelphia Warriors in 1959, having already collected a large bonus for signing.

Individual Triumphs in NBA
Chamberlain was an NBA star from the beginning, leading the league in scoring and rebounding, and taking home honors not only for Rookie of the Year but also for Most Valuable Player. [B]Frustrated by defensive tactics similar to those he had faced in college[/B], and by what he considered biased officiating, he threatened to leave the league and return to the Globetrotters in 1960. [B]But he did not follow through on his threat, and soon learned to outmaneuver his tormentors through sheer size, speed, and skill[/B].






[url]http://www.nba.com/home/history/lege...ain/index.html[/url]


Quote:
In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. [B]Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain[/B]. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever. [B]I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls[/B]."





[url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...940232,00.html[/url]


Quote:
He stood there, just to the right of the basket, a placid. 7-ft. 1 1/16-in, giant watching impassively as his teammates maneuvered the ball in backcourt. [B]The New York Knickerbockers tried to box him in; they clutched at his jersey, leaned against his chest, stepped on his toes[/B]. Then Wilt Chamberlain came alive. With the aplomb of a cop palming an apple, he reached out one massive hand and plucked the basketball out of the air. Spinning violently, he ripped clear of the elbowing surge, took a step toward the basket and jumped. For an instant, he seemed suspended in midair, his head on a level with the 10-ft.-high basket. Slowly, gently, the ball dribbled off his fingertips, through the net, and the San Francisco Warriors went on to a 142-134 victory. New York Coach Ed Donovan sadly shook his head. [B]"He's phenomenal." he sighed. "How does anyone stop Wilt Chamberlain?"[/B]




[url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...940232,00.html[/url]


Quote:
Most basketball stars have one great talent: Russell's is defense, Elgin Baylor's is shooting, Bob Cousy's is setting up plays and passing. [B]Chamberlain does almost everything, better than anyone else[/B]. He is the pros' fiercest rebounder, and his shooting repertory includes such inimitable specialties as the "Dipper Dunk" (in which he simply stretches up and lays the ball in the basket), the "Stuff Shot" (in which he jumps up and rams the ball through the net from above), [B]and the "Fadeaway Jump"

Continuing...

[url]http://samcelt.forumotion.net/t2803-...mmy-4000-words[/url]


Quote:
At 7

[QUOTE]And haha, you dirty ass old fart, I never wrote that Barkley didn't outrebound him 'til the '00 season, I recalled it incorrectly when you wrote about the year Hakeem got outrebounded by 4 a game by Barkley. I did NEVER write that it was first in the '99 season that Barkley outrebounded Hakeem[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239811&page=4[/url]

[QUOTE] [B]Millwad[/B]: And troll, it's funny, [B]the 4 rebound per game higher average Barkley had was in the '00 season[/B]. It really takes a retard use that as a proof of Hakeem being a "bad" rebounder, he was 37 years old. Wilt at that age was retired.. Haha[/QUOTE]

Of course, we KNOW that Barkley outrebounded his TEAMMATE, Hakeem, by a 13.5 rpg to 9.2 rpg margin in the 96-97 season.


[QUOTE] [B]Millwad[/B] Dude, me "lying" was me not being aware of the situation a la Hakeem not guarding Kareem during in his rookie season.[/QUOTE]

Kareem poured a game of 40 points on Hakeem in Olajuwon's rookie season, 84-85, AND, then the 38 year old Kareem dumped TWO 40+ games on Hakeem in his SECOND season. It got so bad, that the Houston coach had to finally admit his failure, and put Sampson on the 38 year old Kareem in the playoffs (of course, Hakeem did help DOUBLE Kareem, as well.)

You fukkin' phagg0t, I didn't ask for what kind of defense Wilt faced, I only said that he didn't face the same amount of double teams as Shaq and Hakeem, he didn't. Your two pages of copy and paste is equal to crap.

[QUOTE]That Kareem got "crushed" by Wilt in the '72 playoffs while he outscored Wilt with the 23 points per game on better FG% and outassisting Wilt and also shooting FT's twice as good as Wilt, haha. Sure, he "CRUSHED" Kareem[/QUOTE]

I won't bother copy-and-pasting all of it...

just scroll down and read PHILA's POSTS on the subject...

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235497&page=2[/url]

Even TIME MAGAZINE declared that a Wilt DECISIVELY outplayed Kareem. Of course, you wouldn't know that, since you didn't WATCH that series!

[QUOTE=millwad]You fukkin' phagg0t, I didn't ask for what kind of defense Wilt faced, I only said that he didn't face the same amount of double teams as Shaq and Hakeem, he didn't. Your two pages of copy and paste is equal to crap.[/QUOTE]

Now it is YOUR turn. You PROVE to me that Hakeem and Shaq faced more double-teams than Wilt.

[QUOTE=jlauber][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239811&page=4[/url][/QUOTE]


Still doesn't say that I claim that the '99 season was the first season Hakeem got outrebounded.. And the first thing in that I did was too admit that I recalled it wrongly so what are you about?

All you do is put up pure nonsense a la Hakeem getting killed by Shaq in the '95 finals. Hakeem being a worse player than Thurmond, Wilt getting killed, abused and crushed by Wilt in the '72 playoffs series (while Kareem averaged 23 points more per game on better FG% and outassisting Wilt, haha).

And the most lame crap you ever put up was when you tried to put up a great list of tall guys Wilt faced in his statprime and you failed big time. Talking about lies, according to you Wilt faced players who never even were in the league at the same time as Wilt and you even mentioned players from ABA who never played in the NBA... HAHA.. That's called lying, you phagg0t.


[QUOTE=jlauber]
Kareem poured a game of 40 points on Hakeem in Olajuwon's rookie season, 84-85, AND, then the 38 year old Kareem dumped TWO 40+ games on Hakeem in his SECOND season. It got so bad, that the Houston coach had to finally admit his failure, and put Sampson on the 38 year old Kareem in the playoffs (of course, Hakeem did help DOUBLE Kareem, as well.)[/QUOTE]

First of all, rookie Hakeem and 2nd year pro Hakeem doesn't mean crap, Hakeem was no where close his defensive prime as I've stated thousand times, in neither his first or second pro year. And he crushed the Lakers in the playoffs that same year as a 2nd year pro.. phagg0t

And I'm still waiting for your proof of Wilt blocking more than 15 of Kareem's skyhooks in the '72 series where Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game on better FG% and outassisted Wilt and shot FT's twice as good as Wilt...

And you don't have to put 3 essays or own conclusions, give me straight facts.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Now it is YOUR turn. You PROVE to me that Hakeem and Shaq faced more double-teams than Wilt.[/QUOTE]

Your eyes can do that job, watch the footage of Wilt that's out there, and then compare it to footage of prime Hakeem and prime Shaq.

[QUOTE]And the most lame crap you ever put up was when you tried to put up a great list of tall guys Wilt faced in his statprime and you failed big time. Talking about lies, according to you Wilt faced players who never even were in the league at the same time as Wilt and you even mentioned players from ABA who never played in the NBA... HAHA.. That's called lying, you phagg0t[/QUOTE]

[url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100727234728AAZxTUR[/url]

[QUOTE]Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
Mel Counts: 7'0"
Walter Dukes: 7'0"
Jim Eakins: 6'11"
Ray Felix: 6'11"
Hank Finkel: 7'0"
Artis Gilmore: 7'2"
Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
Reggie Harding: 7'0"
Bob Lanier: 6'11"
Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
Otto Moore: 6'11"
Dave Newmark: 7'0"
Rich Niemann: 7'0"
Billy Paultz: 6'11"
Craig Raymond: 6'11"
Elmore Smith: 7'0"
Chuck Share: 6'11"
Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
Walt Wesley: 6'11"

Two other factors to keep in mind:

a. The NBA was less interested in promoting itself 40 years ago, and therefore, did not see the need to measure players with their shoes on. [B]Almost all players today are listed 1-2 inches taller than their actual height[/B].


Furthermore, I don't care if Ron Taylor was in the ABA. He was 7-1, and wasn't good enough to play in Wilt's NBA. YOU claim that Wilt did NOT face tall players. I would argue that faced PLENTY of them (and in leagues with 8 to 17 teams.) Not that height has any real bearing on greatness. 6-7 Ben Wallace was the best defensive center of the 00's.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=millwad]Your eyes can do that job, watch the footage of Wilt that's out there, and then compare it to footage of prime Hakeem and prime Shaq.[/QUOTE]

There are only a HANDFUL of Wilt's games on YouTube. He played in 1200 games. Furthermore, another poster brought up game four of the '64 Finals...which was actually just the second HALF. That footage is broken up into several, and just in the second one alone, Wilt was doubled nearly every time down the court.

In any case, I gave you a TON of quotes from PEERS and the media who COVERED Chamberlain. Find me anywhere near the amount showing that Hakeem was BRUTALIZED while being SWARMED as Wilt was.

I will agree that SHAQ was often doubled...but I would not concede it was more than a PRIME Chamberlain.

[QUOTE=jlauber][url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100727234728AAZxTUR[/url][/QUOTE]

You idiot, it wasn't only Taylor..
Eakins never played in the league at the same time as Wilt and the 3 time ABA-allstar Billy Paultz was in the ABA and never faced Wilt either. Raymond played a total of 27 NBA games.

It's really funny you know, why would anyone make up names in a list regarding Wilt's competition, and you call me a liar? HAHAHAHA! Putting up an ABA starplayer as Wilt's competition when the guy never even was on the same court as Wilt..:facepalm

You're a joke...

[QUOTE=jlauber]There are only a HANDFUL of Wilt's games on YouTube. He played in 1200 games. Furthermore, another poster brought up game four of the '64 Finals...which was actually just the second HALF. That footage is broken up into several, and just in the second one alone, Wilt was doubled nearly every time down the court.

In any case, I gave you a TON of quotes from PEERS and the media who COVERED Chamberlain. Find me anywhere near the amount showing that Hakeem was BRUTALIZED while being SWARMED as Wilt was.

I will agree that SHAQ was often doubled...but I would not concede it was more than a PRIME Chamberlain.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you're gonna prove stuff by stuff you read. Bu-bu-but in that case Wilt had sex with 20 000 women too, it was written, so was his so-called FT-dunks and 50 inch vertical and his beef with the mountain lion and his world class volleyballplayer career and that Wilt would average 70 points per game today and that Wilt broke a guys toe when he dunked a ball on it yadi yadi...

[QUOTE=jlauber]I won't bother copy-and-pasting all of it...

just scroll down and read PHILA's POSTS on the subject...

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235497&page=2[/url]

Even TIME MAGAZINE declared that a Wilt DECISIVELY outplayed Kareem. Of course, you wouldn't know that, since you didn't WATCH that series![/QUOTE]

You didn't watch the series either and you prove time after time that you don't know what "decisively" means..

[QUOTE=millwad]And I'm still waiting for your proof of Wilt blocking more than 15 of Kareem's skyhooks in the '72 series where Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game on better FG% and outassisted Wilt and shot FT's twice as good as Wilt...

And you don't have to put 3 essays or own conclusions, give me straight facts.[/QUOTE]

I made a mockery of your claim in a post awhile back. I am not going to go thru my Cherry and Rosen books again. However, just in THREE games of the '72 WCF's Wilt was on record as blocking 15 of Kareem's shots. Maybe not all skyhooks, but surely most of them were. BTW, Kareem took about ANOTHER 100 shots in the other three games, and I am reasonably certain that Wilt was blocking his skyhook in those games, as well.

So, instead of me having to dig up all of MY research, why don't YOU do some actual research, and rebuff my take.

In the meantime, you can disprove this quote, as well.

BTW, Wilt blocks TWO of Kareem's skyhooks in a matter of a few seconds...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq4CWeWaKg[/url]

[QUOTE]@tank3ful [B]In a h2h playoff series in the early 70's Wilt Blocked KAJ's skyhook 23 times. He was a living breathing anti-skyhook.[/B]/watch?v=3BKEgX5E_E4 (his young leaping ability/reach - top of the backboard!)
/watch?v=kB43A-ODuLc (his sheer dominance in a complete NCAA final four game - rare footage)
/watch?v=c3jkRpOfP9k (footage of him young and in his physical PRIME)
His standing reach is higher and wider than Yao ming, he's as nearly as heavy as Shaq, and he was as fleet as a small guard
dantheman9758 1 week ago[/QUOTE]


Or dispute this one...

[url]http://www.amazon.com/Wilt-Larger-Robert-Allen-Cherry/dp/1572436727[/url]

[QUOTE]Bill Russell may have won all those championships, but not even Russell was a match for Wilt statisically. Chamberlain almost always outscored and out rebounded Russell in every encounter. Russell no doubt almost always had the better teams. Abdul Jabbar played 20 seasons to Wilts 13, and yet Chamberlain has several thousand more lifetime rebounds. [B]In the twilight of his career, a 35 year old Wilt led the Lakers to victory over the Bucks and a 25 year old Jabbar during the 1972 playoffs. Even more astounding, was wilt blocked 20 shots in two consecutive games in that series, and 11 of those blocked shots were on Kareem[/B]. Who the heck ever did that to Jabbar. Makes you wonder what Wilt would have done in his prime. As great as Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Magic Johnson were, none of them had the impact or dominance of Wilt Chamberlain. The rules of the game were altered upon Wilts arrival into the league. Modern day fans talk of Shaq being the greatest center of all-time. [B]Does anyone out there think Shaq could have blocked 11 Kareem shots in two games[/B]? Shaq wouldn't have been able to leap high enough to block a skyhook. That statistic alone, should be enough to convince anyone of Wilts athleticism. [/QUOTE]

And given the fact that Wilt and Kareem faced off 28 times, I would think that Chamberlain probably blocked between 50-100 skyhooks in that span.

Of course, I could also say that I WATCHED Wilt ROUTINELY rejecting Kareem's skyhook, but you wouldn't believe it. Mainly because you wouldn't want to.

[QUOTE=millwad]You didn't watch the series either and you prove time after time that you don't know what "decisively" means..[/QUOTE]


Huh? What is YOUR definition of DECISIVELY?

[QUOTE=millwad][B]Yeah, you're gonna prove stuff by stuff you read[/B]. Bu-bu-but in that case Wilt had sex with 20 000 women too, it was written, so was his so-called FT-dunks and 50 inch vertical and his beef with the mountain lion and his world class volleyballplayer career and that Wilt would average 70 points per game today and that Wilt broke a guys toe when he dunked a ball on it yadi yadi...[/QUOTE]

You're right. We can't PROVE anything by what we READ.:facepalm

You are truly pathetic.

[QUOTE=jlauber]I made a mockery of your claim in a post awhile back. I am not going to go thru my Cherry and Rosen books again. [B]However, just in THREE games of the '72 WCF's Wilt was on record as blocking 15 of Kareem's shots. Maybe not all skyhooks, but surely most of them were. BTW, Kareem took about ANOTHER 100 shots in the other three games, and I am reasonably certain that Wilt was blocking his skyhook in those games, as well.[/B][/QUOTE]

Haha, you *******, I knew you were BS'ing.. I couldn't care about your conclusions, I asked for facts and as usual you couldn't deliver.. You even claimed that he blocked more than 15 skyhooks, likely 20:facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]
So, instead of me having to dig up all of MY research, why don't YOU do some actual research, and rebuff my take.[/QUOTE]

I don't have to do any research regarding this subject, you were the idiot who brought this nonsense up.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
In the meantime, you can disprove this quote, as well.

BTW, Wilt blocks TWO of Kareem's skyhooks in a matter of a few seconds...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq4CWeWaKg[/url][/QUOTE]

Doesn't prove that he blocked 15 skyhooks in a series, STILL.


[QUOTE=jlauber]
Or dispute this one...

[url]http://www.amazon.com/Wilt-Larger-Robert-Allen-Cherry/dp/1572436727[/url][/QUOTE]


Haha, you idiot, Robert Allen Cherry was Wilt's own biographer...:facepalm
And great, now the idiot Jlauber uses youtube-posters as "DanTheMan" as one of his sources.. Wow, you're such a retard.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
Of course, I could also say that I WATCHED Wilt ROUTINELY rejecting Kareem's skyhook, but you wouldn't believe it. Mainly because you wouldn't want to.[/QUOTE]

Sure, just like you saw all the other Wilt footage, on youtube..:facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]You're right. We can't PROVE anything by what we READ.:facepalm

You are truly pathetic.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you use Yahoo-comments and youtube-comments among your sources, haha.. And quotes by Wilt's own biographer.. Haha..

[url]http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/wilt-chamberlain-vs-kareem-abdul-jabbar-game-game-stats-1401716/[/url]

19.Date: Fri 04/14/72
- Chamberlain 7 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, 10 blocks, 1-3 FG/FGA

[QUOTE=Andrei89]Howard could also score 100 points playing against mostly scrubs. And average 50 points per game as a C.

WILT most overrated center of all time[/QUOTE]

Dwight Howard couldn't average 50 in the D League. He's not that kind of scorer

50 ppg in a season.
100 points in a game.
Crazy rebounding numbers.
Eye witness accounts of huge block numbers.

This dude is a top player ever no matter what.

NOBODY else at the time played like this, and nobody since.

I dont get why people get so mad about it.

[QUOTE=jlauber][url]http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/wilt-chamberlain-vs-kareem-abdul-jabbar-game-game-stats-1401716/[/url]

19.Date: Fri 04/14/72
- Chamberlain 7 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, 10 blocks, 1-3 FG/FGA – [B]6 blocks against Jabbar [/B]W
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 15-37 FG/FGA L



21.Date: Tue 04/18/72
- Chamberlain 12 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 2-3 FG/FGA - [B]4 blocks against Jabbar[/B] W
-Abdul-Jabbar 28 pts, 16 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

22.Date: Sat 04/22/72
- Chamberlain 20 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, [B]9 blocks[/B], 8-12 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 25 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 16-37 FG/FGA L

Now, according to Cherry, on page 264, in that sixth game (4/22), Wilt did have nine blocks, FIVE of them on Kareem.

So, just in those three games, Wilt blocked 15 of Kareem's shots. And, once again, Kareem took close to another 100 shots in the other three games of that series.


As for Cherry being "Wilt's biographer"...he wrote his book five years AFTER Chamberlain died.

And I didn't even take the time to go thru Rosen's book on the '72 Lakers, either, but he documented all the games of that series, and I believe he came up with a higher number.

So, now YOU prove that Chamberlain did NOT block 15 of Kareem's sky-hooks in that series. If anything, it was probably more than 20.[/QUOTE]
[B]
Dick, you said that Wilt blocked 15 of Kareem's skyhooks in that series. You even went as far as saying he blocked close to 20 skyhooks in that series. And as always you own yourself..

First of all, is that supposed to be a site anyone can trust? What is this cr4p site to start with, how can we know the facts on it is valid? Where is it from?

And if the stats are completely true then you completely owned yourself. You claimed that Wilt blocked 15-20 skyhooks in the '72 series.

In game 1 blocks weren't counted.

In game 2 blocks weren't counted.

Game 3 that site says that Kareem got blocked 6 times, nothing about skyhooks, Kareem wasn't just shooting skyhooks, you dick.

Game 4 it says that Wilt had 3 blocks, it doesn't say who he blocked..

Game 5 that site says he blocked Kareem 4 times.

And in game 6 it says that Wilt blocked 9 shots, it doesn't even say who he blocked, you idiot.

Haha, so your proof told us that Wilt blocked 10 times (nothing about skyhooks) in the series.

Haha, from blocking 15-20 skyhooks to this.. You suck..[/B]

[QUOTE=millwad][B]
Dick, you said that Wilt blocked 15 of Kareem's skyhooks in that series. You even went as far as saying he blocked close to 20 skyhooks in that series. And as always you own yourself..

First of all, is that supposed to be a site anyone can trust? What is this cr4p site to start with, how can we know the facts on it is valid? Where is it from?

And if the stats are completely true then you completely owned yourself. You claimed that Wilt blocked 15-20 skyhooks in the '72 series.

In game 1 blocks weren't counted.

In game 2 blocks weren't counted.

Game 3 that site says that Kareem got blocked 6 times, nothing about skyhooks, Kareem wasn't just shooting skyhooks, you dick.

Game 4 it says that Wilt had 3 blocks, it doesn't say on which player..

Game 5 that site says he blocked Kareem 4 times.

And in game 6 it says that Wilt blocked 9 shots, it doesn't even say who he blocked, you idiot.

Haha, so your proof told us that Wilt blocked 10 times (nothing about skyhooks) in the series.

Haha, from blocking 15-20 skyhooks to this.. You suck..[/B][/QUOTE]


Once again Dickwad...I have supplied you with FIFTEEN blocks in THREE of their SIX H2H games in the '72 WCF's.

As for that source, go ahead and DISPROVE any of it. BTW, BOTH Rosen's and Cherry's books confirm those blocks.

I also provided you with another take of 20 blocks in TWO of those games, and ELEVEN of them against KAREEM.

And yet another source that claimed that Wilt blocked TWENTY-THREE SKYHOOKS in that series.

Where is YOUR PROOF to the CONTRARY?

I'll be waiting...

[QUOTE=jlauber]Once again Dickwad...I have supplied you with FIFTEEN blocks in THREE of their SIX H2H games in the '72 WCF's.

As for that source, go ahead and DISPROVE any of it. BTW, BOTH Rosen's and Cherry's books confirm those blocks.

I also provided you with another take of 20 blocks in TWO of those games, and ELEVEN of them against KAREEM.

And yet another source that claimed that Wilt blocked TWENTY-THREE SKYHOOKS in that series.

Where is YOUR PROOF to the CONTRARY?

I'll be waiting...[/QUOTE]

Haha, your proof told us that Kareem got blocked 10 times in 3 games, it didn't say who Wilt blocked in game 4 and 6. And it didn't say [B]ANYTHING about skyhooks[/B] so finally this nonsense is completely cleared... THANK GOD..

You owned yourself..:facepalm

I got a different view on that Bucks series, myself. The H2H numbers are interesting and all but they have to be placed in context of the team.

Kareem was awesome, all right. Incredible post moves on offense, and pretty darn good defense considering who he was facing.

But.

Look who was on the court around them.
Kareem had

Wali Jones
Lucius Allen
John Block
Bob Dandridge
Bill Dinwiddie
Jon McGlocklin
Barry Nelson
Curtis Perry
Oscar Robertson

The only guy in the conversation with Oscar Robertson for "making players around him better" is Magic Johnson.

Wilt had
Keith Erickson
Gail Goodrich
Happy Hairston
Willie McCarter
Jim McMillian
Pat Riley
Rick Roberson
John Tresvant
West & Baylor both drew DNP.

Chamberlain & Goodrich were swarmed that entire series. Erickson? That guy would stand unguarded at the block and hit the bottom of the rim.

Chamberlain played that series strictly for honor. Like some ancient warrior monk standing alone in the mountain pass looking down at the enemy's army.

And the Milwaukee arena gave him a standing ovation for it.

There was no hope in LA. Just like there was no hope in Philly when Chamberlain was playing as a Warrior against the most stacked team in the history of basketball.

[QUOTE=millwad]Haha, your proof told us that Kareem got blocked 10 times in 3 games, it didn't say who Wilt blocked in game 4 and 6. And it didn't say [B]ANYTHING about skyhooks[/B] so finally this nonsense is completely cleared... THANK GOD..

You owned yourself..:facepalm[/QUOTE]


Once again...ZERO research...as I fully expected. Because you have NONE. In fact, all you ever bring to the table are LIES.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]I got a different view on that Bucks series, myself. The H2H numbers are interesting and all but they have to be placed in context of the team.

Kareem was awesome, all right. Incredible post moves on offense, and pretty darn good defense considering who he was facing.

But.

Look who was on the court around them.
Kareem had

Wali Jones
Lucius Allen
John Block
Bob Dandridge
Bill Dinwiddie
Jon McGlocklin
Barry Nelson
Curtis Perry
Oscar Robertson

The only guy in the conversation with Oscar Robertson for "making players around him better" is Magic Johnson.

Wilt had
Keith Erickson
Gail Goodrich
Happy Hairston
Willie McCarter
Jim McMillian
Pat Riley
Rick Roberson
John Tresvant
West & Baylor both drew DNP.

Chamberlain & Goodrich were swarmed that entire series. Erickson? That guy would stand unguarded at the block and hit the bottom of the rim.

Chamberlain played that series strictly for honor. Like some ancient warrior monk standing alone in the mountain pass looking down at the enemy's army.

[B]And the Milwaukee arena gave him a standing ovation for it[/B].

There was no hope in LA. Just like there was no hope in Philly when Chamberlain was playing as a Warrior against the most stacked team in the history of basketball.[/QUOTE]

This was from the '71 series, when a well-past his prime Wilt battled a statistically PRIME Kareem to a statistical draw...point-for-point, shot-for-shot, and rebound-for-rebound. A Wilt in arguably his WORST season, and only a year removed from major knee surgery. And yes, the MILWAUKEE fans gave WILT a STANDING OVATION for his efforts.


Those that actually WITNESSED the '72 WCFs, to a MAN, claimed that a 35 year old Wilt OUTPLAYED a PRIME Kareem in his BEST season. Time Magazine hailed it as a DECISIVE win for the 11 year older Chamberlain.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Once again...ZERO research...as I fully expected. Because you have NONE. In fact, all you ever bring to the table are LIES.[/QUOTE]

Haha, you tried to give proof of your research and your so called research didn't prove your stupid claims.. I clearly accepted the site you put up and went after the numbers the box scores told and you got owned by your own source. Neither does it say anything about skyhooks and it only says that Kareem got blocked 10 times so give me proof of Kareem getting 15-20 skyhooks blocked by Kareem in that series or just shut up..

IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT YOU CLAIMED:..:roll:

[QUOTE=millwad]Haha, you tried to give proof of your research and your so called research didn't prove your stupid claims.. I clearly accepted the site you put up and went after the numbers the box scores told and you got owned by your own source. Neither does it say anything about skyhooks and it only says that Kareem got blocked 10 times so give me proof of Kareem getting 15-20 skyhooks blocked by Kareem in that series or just shut up..

IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT YOU CLAIMED:..:roll:[/QUOTE]

Oh yes it did. Wilt had those TEN blocks on Kareem in TWO games, and Cherry and Rosen confirmed that he had FIVE of the NINE blocks in that sixth game on KAREEM. That is CLEARLY 15. And, I provided TWO more sources that claimed that Wilt blocked 11 of Kareem's skyhooks in TWO games, and the other claimed that Wilt blocked[B] 23 [/B]of them in that series.

Where are YOUR sources?

And yet, YOU have provided absolutely NOTHING to refute them. Just like your Barkley NOT outrebounding Hakeem; nor your claim that even you now admit, that Hakeem was NOT guarding Kareem when Kareem was scoring at WILL against him. Nor YOUR claim that Kareem outplayed Wilt in the WCF's. Or that Wilt was not double-teamed as often as Hakeem (which is pure bulls**t BTW.)

No research at all. You continually lie, and NEVER back them up.

YOU have ZERO creditability.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Oh yes it did. Wilt had those TEN blocks on Kareem in TWO games, and Cherry and Rosen confirmed that he had FIVE of the NINE blocks in that sixth game on KAREEM. That is CLEARLY 15. And, I provided TWO more sources that claimed that Wilt blocked 11 of Kareem's skyhooks in TWO games, and the other claimed that Wilt blocked[B] 23 [/B]of them in that series. [/QUOTE]

It still didn't say ANYTHING about skyhooks, you freaking retarded. And you saying that Rosen Cherry confirming the 5 of 9 blocks is not enough, give me proof of that. And even when you do, you still have no case because you claimed it was 15-20 skyhooks which it obviously wasn't. YOU ARE SO OWNED.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
Where are YOUR sources?
[/QUOTE]


You gave me my source, your own source told me that Kareem got blocked 10 times in that series and it didn't say anything about skyhooks. Thanks for crushing your own BS!

[I][B]And regarding lying, you are the same clown who made up 3 players as Wilt's TALL competitors during his career when those never even stepped on the same basketball court as Wilt Chamberlain. And regarding lying, you made up the nonsense about Wilt blocking 15 skyhooks in the series.. HAHA![/B][/I]

[QUOTE=millwad]It still didn't say ANYTHING about skyhooks, you freaking retarded.[B] And you saying that Rosen Cherry confirming the 5 of 9 blocks is not enough, give me proof of that[/B]. And even when you do, you still have no case because you claimed it was 15-20 skyhooks which it obviously wasn't. YOU ARE SO OWNED.




You gave me my source, your own source told me that Kareem got blocked 10 times in that series and it didn't say anything about skyhooks. Thanks for crushing your own BS![/QUOTE]

Read page 264 of Cherry's book you idiot.

And once again, where are YOUR sources???

15 blocks in THREE games out of the SIX that were played is all I need to know. Kareem took some 100 more shots in the other three games, and given the fact that Wilt blocked 15 in the KNOWN three, I am convinced UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE, that he blocked 15+ skyhooks (and probably over 20.)

yes, from '71.

As far as that '72 Lakers team, imo the only teams that could give them a real series were the '67 Sixers, the un-injured '68 Sixers, the 87 Celtics, early Showtime Laker squads, the Rodman era Bulls teams, & the Shaq Lakers. Can't say about those early Celtics teams, that's before my time.

I can't add Hakeem's championship teams because I don't think they had enough great players to match that '72 team.

The '83 Sixers maybe. The only centers I can remember Chamberlain applauding after he retired were Moses Malone, Kareem, Olajuwan and Shaq.

Maybe the Walton Blazers, but given Walton's absolute awe of Chamberlain I'm not sure he would have done anything but get all sag-kneed being on the same court.

My greatest fantasy matchup for center led teams?
'72 Lakers vs. '02 Lakers

[I]Mushroom cloud over Staples!! [/I]

I can easily believe Wilt got some really high Block totals.

I remember Kareem getting 7-10+ Blocks in a whole lot of games in the early 70's and I have Zero doubt Wilt was significantly better at blocking shots in comparison to him especially in his Young and Prime years.

I saw the clip of old Wilt blocking his Sky Hook and I was frankly amazed at the Vertical he had (at that age).
Very impressive to get up that high especially with all that muscle he was carrying around.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Read page 264 of Cherry's book you idiot.[/QUOTE]

I don't need to read Wilt's own biographers book to know that you are lying. I wanted proof of Wilt blocking 15-20 skyhooks in that series and you gave me a source which proved that you lied...:facepalm

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]

The '83 Sixers maybe. The only centers I can remember Chamberlain applauding after he retired were Moses Malone, Kareem, Olajuwan and Shaq.


[I]Mushroom cloud over Staples!! [/I][/QUOTE]

Mushroom-boy, his name was "OLAJUWON"...

[QUOTE=millwad]I don't need to read Wilt's own biographers book to know that you are lying. I wanted proof of Wilt blocking 15-20 skyhooks in that series and you gave me a source which proved that you lied...:facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]10 on Kareem in TWO games, and the in that third Cherry credits Wilt with FIVE of the KNOWN NINE blocks against Kareem. That's FIFTEEN. In THREE of their SIX games. [/QUOTE]

Give me the proof of Cherry crediting Wilt with the 5 blocks (skyhooks), even though I don't really find him credible. Anyway, it still doesn't say anything about skyhooks and especially not about 15-20 of them.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
And once again, how about the SOURCE that credited Wilt with ELEVEN skyhook blocks in TWO of those games...and a second source with 23 in that series?

If they are somehow false claims (and you and I both know they are not) where are YOUR sources disputing them?[/QUOTE]

Idiot, I don't need no source, you're the one spamming about this fake event and therefor I once for all wanted you to prove it to me and you failed big time. And please give me the source that confirmed that Wilt blocked 11 skyhooks in two of those games?

It's just like I thought, you made an own conclusion as usual..:facepalm

[QUOTE=BlackJoker23]prime millwad>prime wilt[/QUOTE]

What a great way to join the 1000 post club! :cheers:

I admire Wilt as a player but Jbieber has taken his crap about Wilt too far.

Incidently, Julizaver who studied the google archives recorded EVERY H2H game between Wilt and Kareem...

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170340[/url]

He found 14 more blocks on Kareem by Wilt (and yes, the assumption being the skyhook) in just FOUR of those other games.

So that makes 24 that he recorded PLUS we KNOW that Chamberlain had at LEAST FIVE more in game six of the WCF's, as well, making 29.

He also made an interesting comment on his research...

[QUOTE]* Blocked stats are collected from archive newspapers articles (as most of the data), NBA doesn't kept track of blocked shots before 1973/74 season. [B]I have some blocked shots numbers ( for example [B]if Wilt blocked 20 shots - 11 of Jabbar in two consecutive games in 1972 WCF [/B]- and if that were the game 5 and 6 - it will be like Wilt had 11 blocks (4 against Jabbar) in game 5 and 9 blocks ([COLOR="DarkRed"]7[/COLOR] against Jabbar) in game 6[/B]. But since if I am not able to cross checked it I did not put that data. [B]Also I find in the forum info about Wilt blocked 8 shots in game 1 of 1971/72 regular season[/B], but I was not able to find evidence in google news archive search,so again I do not post it.
[/QUOTE]

So, as we can plainly see, Wilt was ROUTINELY knocking the SKYHOOK all over the gym.