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Dwyane Wade and it is not even close. Unlike most people I don't think Iverson was a better scorer than Wade was. He scored 1.3 more ppg in his career than Wade did yet he shot 6%'s less. I'll take a guy that scores efficient over the guy that scores less efficient with just 1.3 more ppg. There is literally no area that Iverson was better than Wade in. Scoring is the only debate and I don't think Iverson was the better scorer.
Look what 30 year old Iverson was able to do after the rule changes and getting good offensive teammates. In 06 he put up 33 points 7 assists and 45% fg in 07 with Denver he put up 25 points 7 assists and 45% in 08 he put up 26 points 7 assists and 46%. His first full year with Denver in 08 he put 26.4 points on 19 shot attempts Wade this year put up 25.5 points on 18 shot attempts similar efficiency.
[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]Dwyane Wade and it is not even close. Unlike most people I don't think Iverson was a better scorer than Wade was. He scored 1.3 more ppg in his career than Wade did yet he shot 6%'s less. I'll take a guy that scores efficient over the guy that scores less efficient with just 1.3 more ppg. There is literally no area that Iverson was better than Wade in. Scoring is the only debate and I don't think Iverson was the better scorer.[/QUOTE]
If young Iverson played in the late 2000s he would put up 33-35 points with 46-48%
Is this a serious question?
One of the biggest chuckers of his day vs. one of the top all around players of his day
Tough call
[QUOTE=Ikill]If young Iverson played in the late 2000s he would put up 33-35 points with 46-48%[/QUOTE]
If Dwyane Wade played in the early 2000s he would put up 50-55 points with 55-57% shooting. Play all the hypotheticals you want.
[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]If Dwyane Wade played in the early 2000s he would put up 50-55 points with 55-57% shooting. Play all the hypotheticals you want.[/QUOTE]
Iverson put up 33 points on 45% in 06 when the rules were soft he was 30 years old
[QUOTE=rodman91]Rings doesn't reliable for players like Iverson.
He played mostly with average or below average players and coaches in his prime. Only players can be considered as really good was 34-35 years old Mutombo and coach L.Brown. He won MVP,reached finals and heroic games in all playoffs and finals. When you look at players with rings..you see usually other great players around them.From Russell to Jordan, from Kobe to Wade. Kobe,Wade,Garnett,Lebron,Jordan,Wilt without great players couldn't win championship.It's no brainer.
[B]Wade played with 32 years old Shaq with Pat Riley as coach. Now he is playing with 26 years old Lebron and 27 years old Bosh. Shaq was still considered best center in those years. Lebron is considered as best player in the league and Chris Bosh considered as franchise player[/B].
Iverson played with mostly below average teammates and coaches but one great center while Wade has played probably 2 of top ten players of all time so far.[/QUOTE]
:sleeping Iverson was able to work with Larry Brown "HOF coach", George Karl "HOF Coach", Melo"Top 5 scorer", Mutombo "DPOY", and was traded to a team that won 59 games before he was traded there. Not to mention that the Sixers that people said he completely carried were above .500 without him including a solid win vs the Jazz IN Utah
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200012260UTA.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Ikill]Iverson put up 33 points on 45% in 06 when the rules were soft he was 30 years old[/QUOTE]
And his team didn't even make the playoffs...... :oldlol:
What did he put up in 04-05? 42% shooting.
06-07? 44% shooting
So he has one or two seasons shooting 45% or higher, big deal. Wade has shot that literally his entire career.
This isn't close and if you think so then you are a moron. Iverson did nothing better than Wade did. Nothing.
[QUOTE=Borderlands]Wade improved on Iverson's imprint on the League. Wade is so much more unselfish then Iverson. But if there was no Iverson there will be no Wade.[/QUOTE]
What makes Iverson selfish? Because he wasn't feeding Matt Geiger in the post every single trip down the court? Because he didn't swing the ball around to Aaron McKie waiting in the wings? Seriously who would blame AI for taking 30 shots a game when your teammates are Tyron Hill, George Lynch, and Eric Snow?
[QUOTE=Ikill]Iverson put up 33 points on 45% in 06 when the rules were soft he was 30 years old[/QUOTE]
lol and didnt make the playoffs.:lol
players aren't in their primes when they reach 30?
[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]And his team didn't even make the playoffs...... :oldlol:
What did he put up in 04-05? 42% shooting.
06-07? 44% shooting
So he has one or two seasons shooting 45% or higher, big deal. Wade has shot that literally his entire career.
This isn't close and if you think so then you are a moron. Iverson did nothing better than Wade did. Nothing.[/QUOTE]
Iverson played basketball better than Wade. That's about it. Take Wade out of today's rules, have him play 43 MPG with no one to pass to, and let's see what his AVG and FG% are.
[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]And his team didn't even make the playoffs...... :oldlol:
What did he put up in 04-05? 42% shooting.
06-07? 44% shooting
So he has one or two seasons shooting 45% or higher, big deal. Wade has shot that literally his entire career.
This isn't close and if you think so then you are a moron. Iverson did nothing better than Wade did. Nothing.[/QUOTE]
Iverson better @ shooting from deep.
thats pretty much it. and overall ball handing
[QUOTE=Kevin_Gamble]Iverson played basketball better than Wade. That's about it. Take Wade out of today's rules, have him play 43 MPG with no one to pass to, and let's see what his AVG and FG% are.[/QUOTE]
I have already seen him do that from 2008-2010.
You wanna know what his numbers were?
08-09 - 30 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 2.2 spg, 1.3 bpg, with 49% shooting
09-10 - 27 ppg, 7 apg, 5 rpg, 1.8 spg, 1.1 bpg with 48% shooting
Yeah thats what I thought.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Iverson better @ shooting from deep.
thats pretty much it. and overall ball handing[/QUOTE]
and is a much better midrange shooter
[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]And his team didn't even make the playoffs...... :oldlol:
What did he put up in 04-05? 42% shooting.
06-07? 44% shooting
So he has one or two seasons shooting 45% or higher, big deal. Wade has shot that literally his entire career.
This isn't close and if you think so then you are a moron.[B] Iverson did nothing better than Wade did. Nothing.[/B][/QUOTE]
No. AI was the crossover master. Iverson revolutionized the scoring point guard era.
As of right now, Wade is a more complete player than Iverson and just more well rounded. Wade can also play much bigger. I'll give a slight edge to Wade atm.
But don't act like it isn't close. Because prime Iverson was ballin.
[IMG]http://sportsofboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Iverson_12_9_10.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]:sleeping Iverson was able to work with Larry Brown "HOF coach", George Karl "HOF Coach", Melo"Top 5 scorer", Mutombo "DPOY", and was traded to a team that won 59 games before he was traded there. Not to mention that the Sixers that people said he completely carried were above .500 without him including a solid win vs the Jazz IN Utah
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200012260UTA.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Miami Shaq was still superior than Philly Mutombo.
Lebron & Bosh combo superior than Melo.
Riley has superior career to Brown&Karl.
Philly has never able to be as good team as early 00's.What's their playoff success then?
They win one regular season game against Jazz and is it suppose to mean they were good? Cavs won some games without James.It didn't help all season though.
Wade won a ring albeit with another Hall of Famer.
Not that it matters much but did Wade get a MVP trophy?
Hmm...The stats are close but much respect goes to Allen Illy in Philly.
[QUOTE=AngelEyes]Wade by a country mile. Wade is a far better all around player than Iverson and much more efficient. I don't really buy the argument that Iverson was a much better scorer than Wade. I think that Wade is a much more willing passer than Iverson and could have averaged similar points if he increased his shots. Wade is on a different level.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
[QUOTE=Unstoppabull]No. AI was the crossover master. Iverson revolutionized the scoring point guard era. As of right now, Wade is a more complete player than Iverson and just more well rounded. Wade can also play much bigger. I'll give a slight edge to Wade atm. But don't act like it isn't close. Because prime Iverson was ballin.[/QUOTE]
Iverson is much harder to build around. He's man to man defense isnt anything special and extremely inefficient.
[QUOTE=rodman91]Miami Shaq was still superior than Philly Mutombo.
Lebron & Bosh combo superior than Melo.
Riley has superior career to Brown&Karl.
Philly has never able to be as good team as early 00's.What's their playoff success then?
They win one regular season game against Jazz and is it suppose to mean they were good? Cavs won some games without James.It didn't help all season though.[/QUOTE]
The Sixers were over .500 without Iverson... the Cavs werent without Lebron. and they were better after Iverson was traded when he was sent to Denver including making the playoffs in 2008 with a full season without Iverson.
and his 01 sixers team was only beating crappy teams that wouldnt make the playoffs in the west? and it took them 7 games to take out 2 of them... not impressive at all.
[QUOTE=Keith]Wade won a ring albeit with another Hall of Famer. Not that it matters much but did Wade get a MVP trophy? Hmm...The stats are close but much respect goes to Allen Illy in Philly.[/QUOTE]
only their PPG and steals were close.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]The Sixers were over .500 without Iverson... the Cavs werent without Lebron. and they were better after Iverson was traded when he was sent to Denver including making the playoffs in 2008 with a full season without Iverson.
and his 01 sixers team was only beating crappy teams that wouldnt make the playoffs in the west? and it took them 7 games to take out 2 of them... not impressive at all.[/QUOTE]
Finals>first round.
They had poor squad certainly..but still they have won 2nd best record in season.And reached finals.And only team beat 01 Lakers in playoffs.
Mutombo,Hill,Lynch,Mckie,Snow,Jumaine Jones,Matt Geiger.. How this team can be good without Iverson.
Wade, 2011 Finals: Goes up for a game winning runner three. He looks ok upon release. But when he sees the shot missed, he immediately grabs his eye like it's been shot, and moans to the ref while grimacing on the floor.
AI, 2001 East Finals: Gets elbowed in the mouth by a Bucks player (Ray Allen I think), almost knocking his teeth off. He is bleeding from the mouth. Worried that the refs will pull him out of the game since the rules state that a bleeding player can't be on the court, he spits the blood under his jersey and continues to play. Also, he had nearly 20 different injuries at that point.
Who would you rather have?
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
[QUOTE=rodman91]Finals>first round.
They had poor squad certainly..but still they have won 2nd best record in season.And reached finals.And only team beat 01 Lakers in playoffs.
Mutombo,Hill,Lynch,Mckie,Snow,Jumaine Jones,Matt Geiger.. How this team can be good without Iverson.[/QUOTE]
A lot of teams that get far wouldn't be good without their best player.
It wasn't a poor team, they outrebounded opponents by 4 rpg, they were a top 5 defensive team and you mentioned a lot of guys who were really good defenders. Mutombo was the defensive player of the year that season and Snow, McKie and Lynch were all known as good defenders, in fact, Snow made the all-defensive second team a few years later and Kobe praised his defense and called him the player who defended him the toughest, he also praised Aaron McKie's defense. And lets not act like those guys didn't contribute in other ways either. Snow led the team in assists during the regular season with over 7 per game and McKie was second on the team with 5.
McKie was also voted the 6th man of the year, but he also averaged 15/5/7 as a starter during the regular season and 15/5/5 in the playoffs. Mutombo also raised his game in the playoffs and averaged 14 points, 14 rebounds and 3 blocks.
They could've used better shooters, but I hate when people act like this was a team of scrubs. They were well coached and played hard every night. Iverson carried them a lot offensively, but people always forget that this was an elite defensive team and rebounding team. He was getting help, but because people don't see a 20 ppg scorer listed next to him on basketball-reference, they don't realize that.
That team was in no way coimparable to Wade's 2009 Heat.
Not only did Wade not have any more offensive talent next to him on the 2009 Heat, but Spoelstra is nowhere near the coach that Larry Brown is, Miami was a pretty average defensive team(and Wade helped more at that end than Iverson did) and unlike Philly who had good size in the frontcourt, Miami lacked size. They certainly didn't have the league's best rebounder, or a defensive player of the year blocking shots. In fact, Miami was out-rebounded by opponents by 2.4 boards per game.
And you think that Wade's job would be easier with defensive players like Snow, McKie, Lynch and Bell on the perimeter?
Comparing the team success of Wade in 2009 to Iverson in 2001 is just stupid.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]A lot of teams that get far wouldn't be good without their best player.
It wasn't a poor team, they outrebounded opponents by 4 rpg, they were a top 5 defensive team and you mentioned a lot of guys who were really good defenders. Mutombo was the defensive player of the year that season and Snow, McKie and Lynch were all known as good defenders, in fact, Snow made the all-defensive second team a few years later and Kobe praised his defense and called him the player who defended him the toughest, he also praised Aaron McKie's defense. And lets not act like those guys didn't contribute in other ways either. Snow led the team in assists during the regular season with over 7 per game and McKie was second on the team with 5.
McKie was also voted the 6th man of the year, but he also averaged 15/5/7 as a starter during the regular season and 15/5/5 in the playoffs. Mutombo also raised his game in the playoffs and averaged 14 points, 14 rebounds and 3 blocks.
They could've used better shooters, but I hate when people act like this was a team of scrubs. They were well coached and played hard every night. Iverson carried them a lot offensively, but people always forget that this was an elite defensive team and rebounding team. He was getting help, but because people don't see a 20 ppg scorer listed next to him on basketball-reference, they don't realize that.
That team was in no way coimparable to Wade's 2009 Heat.
Not only did Wade not have any more offensive talent next to him on the 2009 Heat, but Spoelstra is nowhere near the coach that Larry Brown is, Miami was a pretty average defensive team(and Wade helped more at that end than Iverson did) and unlike Philly who had good size in the frontcourt, Miami lacked size. They certainly didn't have the league's best rebounder, or a defensive player of the year blocking shots. In fact, Miami was out-rebounded by opponents by 2.4 boards per game.
And you think that Wade's job would be easier with defensive players like Snow, McKie, Lynch and Bell on the perimeter?
Comparing the team success of Wade in 2009 to Iverson in 2001 is just stupid.[/QUOTE]
I said finals>first round about Philly with Iverson and without Iverson
Team success is quite irrelavent in Wade vs Iverson comparision.Prime Iverson's teammates nothing next to Wade's.
Prime Iverson's best teammate was Mutombo.
Wade's teammates were/are Shaq,Lebron,Bosh.
Its stupid to compare these as well.While Heat's first round loss after championship..and this years loss in finals remembered as failures, Sixers' finals remembered as success due to difference between those teams value.
Give me Dwayne Wade.
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]If you're talking about scoring, then AI. However, [B]D-Wade is the closes we've seen to MJ[/B] in terms of slashing/defense.[/QUOTE]
LMAO
Keep the jokes coming kid.
[QUOTE=rodman91]I said finals>first round about Philly with Iverson and without Iverson
Team success is quite irrelavent in Wade vs Iverson comparision.Prime Iverson's teammates nothing next to Wade's.
Prime Iverson's best teammate was Mutombo.
Wade's teammates were/are Shaq,Lebron,Bosh.
Its stupid to compare these as well.[B]While Heat's first round loss after championship[/B]..and this years loss in finals remembered as failures, Sixers' finals remembered as success due to difference between those teams value.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm Nobody even talks about that and for good reason. Miami had an aging cast around Wade, and everyone knows that Wade was injured and probably shouldn't have even been playing.
Wade is a proven champion as the best player on his team, that's not irrelevant. I'm not saying that there was any year where you'd expect Iverson to win, but lets keep that run in perspective. I mean look at the Toronto series, they beat Toronto by one point, and that Raptor team was Vince Carter+ a worse cast than what Iverson had. It shows what you could do in the east at the time.
The championship isn't the deciding factor between who is the better player, Wade has been a better player regardless. Iverson was a top 5 player for 1 year, but Wade has been year after year.
[QUOTE=rodman91]Finals>first round. They had poor squad certainly..but still they have won 2nd best record in season.And reached finals.And only team beat 01 Lakers in playoffs. [B]Mutombo,Hill[/B],Lynch,[B]Mckie,Snow[/B],Jumaine Jones,Matt Geiger.. How this team can be good without Iverson.[/QUOTE]
and those are good players.
2001 Mutombo >>> anybody LeBron ever played with before leaving Cleveland.
Hill made the All Star team before and give you like 12/10 each night, Snow lock down players, and what about Aaron McKie aka 6th man of the year.
The Sixers took home like every award that season "MVP, Coach of the year, defensive player of the year, 6th man" but his team was just plain garbage... :rolleyes:
Who did Wade had in 09 and 2010 that was better than Iverson's 2001 roster... and lets not forget Iverson's deep Nuggets team that didnt do shit.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]and those are good players.
2001 Mutombo >>> anybody LeBron ever played with before leaving Cleveland.
Hill made the All Star team before and give you like 12/10 each night, Snow lock down players, and what about Aaron McKie aka 6th man of the year.
The Sixers took home like every award that season "MVP, Coach of the year, defensive player of the year, 6th man" but his team was just plain garbage... :rolleyes:
Who did Wade had in 09 and 2010 that was better than Iverson's 2001 roster... [B]and lets not forget Iverson's deep Nuggets team that didnt do shit.[/B][/QUOTE]
They werent deep at all.
Injuries killed their front court.
But I'll take Wade over AI and West.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]and those are good players.
2001 Mutombo >>> anybody LeBron ever played with before leaving Cleveland.
Hill made the All Star team before and give you like 12/10 each night, Snow lock down players, and what about Aaron McKie aka 6th man of the year.
The Sixers took home like every award that season "MVP, Coach of the year, defensive player of the year, 6th man" but his team was just plain garbage... :rolleyes:
Who did Wade had in 09 and 2010 that was better than Iverson's 2001 roster... and lets not forget Iverson's deep Nuggets team that didnt do shit.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say 2009 heat was better than 2001 Sixers..so its quite irrelavent. I said philly's success with Iverson (finals) were much greater than they are without him..(first round loss)
Anyway,Philly played good hustle and defense...But let's not act like Snow,Hill,Mckie were good players.Average players at best.
2001 philly had one of the worst cast for finalists.Without Iverson they would be something like this years Cavs.
People forget that in the days of PRIME SHAQ there was a healthy debate on who the most dominant player in the league was. People forget just how unstoppable AI was at one time. Wade has never even smelled that level of dominance.
Forget efficiency! Teams never game plan around Wade as they did around Iverson. Every team Iverson ever played, their whole game plan was to stop AI somehow. If teams played Wade like that, I doubt his career scoring average would be higher than 19 ppg. Buncha kids on these boards. :roll:
[QUOTE=hammer2010]People forget that in the days of PRIME SHAQ there was a healthy debate on who the most dominant player in the league was. People forget just how unstoppable AI was at one time. Wade has never even smelled that level of dominance.
Forget efficiency! Teams never game plan around Wade as they did around Iverson. Every team Iverson ever played, their whole game plan was to stop AI somehow. If teams played Wade like that, I doubt his career scoring average would be higher than 19 ppg. Buncha kids on these boards. :roll:[/QUOTE]
06 finals ask the Mavericks what their defensive game-plan:rolleyes: was and then come tell me how that worked out.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]:facepalm Nobody even talks about that and for good reason. Miami had an aging cast around Wade, and everyone knows that Wade was injured and probably shouldn't have even been playing.
Wade is a proven champion as the best player on his team, that's not irrelevant. I'm not saying that there was any year where you'd expect Iverson to win, but lets keep that run in perspective. I mean look at the Toronto series, they beat Toronto by one point, and that Raptor team was Vince Carter+ a worse cast than what Iverson had. It shows what you could do in the east at the time.
The championship isn't the deciding factor between who is the better player, Wade has been a better player regardless. Iverson was a top 5 player for 1 year, but Wade has been year after year.[/QUOTE]
It just proves my point more.Saying Wade = 1 , Iverson = 0 is stupid, Wade had Shaq vs 2006 Mavs.. Iverson had Mutombo vs 2001 Lakers. (which swept everyteam in West)
Sixers weren't good team, they have always lacked scoring options (similar to this years Bulls but worse cast) and it showed in playoffs more. They played with amazing heart,hustle and defensive system.They were only depend on Iverson at offense. They didn't even have really good shooters.
Anyway, personally i don't see wade is better than prime Iverson.
ShaqAttack3234 owning n[COLOR="Black"]i[/COLOR]ggaz like good ol' days :cheers: :pimp:
[QUOTE=PowerGlove]They werent deep at all. Injuries killed their front court. But I'll take Wade over AI and West.[/QUOTE]
Melo and Camby were their healthy in both of those years.
[QUOTE=hammer2010]People forget that in the days of PRIME SHAQ there was a healthy debate on who the most dominant player in the league was. People forget just how unstoppable AI was at one time. Wade has never even smelled that level of dominance.
Forget efficiency! Teams never game plan around Wade as they did around Iverson. Every team Iverson ever played, their whole game plan was to stop AI somehow. If teams played Wade like that, I doubt his career scoring average would be higher than 19 ppg. Buncha kids on these boards. :roll:[/QUOTE]
I could only think of 3 years where I think Iverson was a top 5 player in the NBA. 2000,2001, and in 2005 "Maybe"
Wade is better, and no, it's not really close. My only thing with him though is that he ditched his GREAT midrange game he developed in 2009. Dude is the definition of a streaky shooter and that may be giving him too much credit.