The Lingend is over

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Thing is... how can you NOT like the hype? This was a guy who came out of NOWHERE literally and tore the league apart for a decent stretch. A nerdy Asian kid who went to Harvard at that. It's a feel good story and there is no such thing as a 20 game fluke IMO. I think with the right coach, team around him he COULD potentially become an all star but worse case should be a good starter for years to come.

I think the only ones that truly overrated him were Knicks fans when they acted like he was an elite player or something but most people were just excited as hell about the streak. Ironically it's Knicks fans now who tear him up the most and act like he's garbage.[/QUOTE]

You're full of it, the whole board hated on Lin before. Now he's not a Knick so the haters want to embrace him and call out Knick fans for it. He was overrated / underrated by practically everyone on the board.

[QUOTE=niko]He looked good. He needs to learn to play more where he is setting up the offense, not initiating every play on the offense. He plays like Marbury (stylewise, clearly he's not so selfish), if you are on the floor with him he will score, or you can score off his pass. If you are a post player, or a player who can iso, etc. he doesn't know how to get you the ball. If there young players become stars, he's going to have to learn to feed them the ball at times to let them create, or else you turn players into stand up shooters. Like Deron, he can do both easily.

Right now all offense is ran through Lin, which worked great on the Knicks when everyone was hurt, much less so when everyone was back. It's a progression he needs to learn but with a young Rockets team he might not be called on to do so.

:rant C'mon - HATER HATER! HE'S PERFECT![/QUOTE]

Don't really agree, so far, he is feeding the Rocket's bigs with post ups and inside play. He just tries to find the best shot in any given situation

But it's not so much him, but how Mchale wants the offense. He wants the ball to move fast

[QUOTE=BlitzForce]Don't really agree, so far, he is feeding the Rocket's bigs with post ups and inside play. He just tries to find the best shot in any given situation

But it's not so much him, but how Mchale wants the offense. He wants the ball to move fast[/QUOTE]
I guess you didn't watch him play at all last year then. You talk about him like you saw every minute he ever played.

From what I saw of Asik in the highlights, it seems the dude still has trouble staying on the court due to foul trouble (same issue came up when he was playing for the Bulls but in less minutes). The Rockets are going to be in trouble if Asik is not in the game due to either foul trouble or injury.

[QUOTE=niko]You're full of it, the whole board hated on Lin before. Now he's not a Knick so the haters want to embrace him and call out Knick fans for it. He was overrated / underrated by practically everyone on the board.[/QUOTE]

What the...??? We had like 7 Lin threads a day with most of the board pulling for him as did the media and general fans across the nation. Sure you had a good sized group of those "It's a fluke" people but I wasn't one of them.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]What the...??? We had like 7 Lin threads a day with most of the board pulling for him as did the media and general fans across the nation. Sure you had a good sized group of those "It's a fluke" people but I wasn't one of them.[/QUOTE]
i know you weren't, but you basically called out Knick fans for being delusional ONLY on Lin. Read your post. Everyone hated on him. Now it's "he's great, why aren't knick fans more upset?"

[QUOTE=niko]I guess you didn't watch him play at all last year then. You talk about him like you saw every minute he ever played.[/QUOTE]

I'm talking about this year, on the Rockets.....
Whatever happened last year is irrelevant.

[QUOTE=BlitzForce]I'm talking about this year, on the Rockets.....
Whatever happened last year is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not. That's ****ing asinine. These are preseason games, he's not totally healthy, and it's a new system. Basing your opinion of a player based on preseason (3 games) and saying to ignore his career prior is about as stupid a thing as i have ever heard.

You are telling me we should discuss Lin but not his Knick time. :facepalm

I saw glimpses of Rockets playing Grizzlies today, and Lin was in the middle of everything. Looked quite good. He was literary on. Dominated the ball a la LaBran, and was active on defense also. I think Lin is a good player, why not.

[QUOTE=BlitzForce]Lin's highlights from today
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ5oFtPXyck[/url][/QUOTE]

12 assists :cheers:

Mike Conley is good at steals but Lin only limited his TOs to 2.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]What the...??? We had like 7 Lin threads a day with most of the board pulling for him as did the media and general fans across the nation. Sure you had a good sized group of those "It's a fluke" people but I wasn't one of them.[/QUOTE]
How can you have over 22,000 posts since january 2011? thats insane. How many is that a day?

[QUOTE=9512]12 assists :cheers:

Mike Conley is good at steals but Lin only limited his TOs to 2.[/QUOTE]

And they weren't due to Conley either

One was because Lin bounced the ball onto Asik's foot when he stuck it out as Lin was rounding the screen.
And the other he got hacked on the wrist by Bayless on a shot, no call, so it was counted as a turnover.....

Although he did throw a near turnover, but a teammate got the ball back when it was partially intercepted.

[QUOTE=spiegel]How can you have over 22,000 posts since january 2011? thats insane. How many is that a day?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Red"]
[SIZE="4"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]According to my calculation, that's approximately 34.8 posts a day.




Math&Algebra[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

Thing about Jeremy he is very up and down in terms of his production. When he sucks, he's really bad, but when he's good, he's like the next Asian Jordan!(considering there are no other oriental guards that are starters in the NBA, I can be excused for that comparison)

Niko is right about one thing, he seems to have to generate the offense every time.

One other thing, I wish he didn't tell the whole league that he is still recovering from that knee op, and his speed, explosion are all lacking...:facepalm

yeah I know it's to ease the pressure on himself in some ways, but the thing is I am convinced every PG in the league will want to carve him up because of the media attention and that contract he's got. And the fact that he owned up to his knee isn't 100%, they're going to go at him harder.

Unless it's a bluff like in tennis, where Novak pretends he's injured and then starts running like a jack rabbit as quoted by the great Roger Federer. :roll:

[QUOTE=stevieming]Thing about Jeremy he is very up and down in terms of his production. When he sucks, he's really bad, but when he's good, he's like the next Asian Jordan!(considering there are no other oriental guards that are starters in the NBA, I can be excused for that comparison)

[B]Niko is right about one thing, he seems to have to generate the offense every time. [/B]

One other thing, I wish he didn't tell the whole league that he is still recovering from that knee op, and his speed, explosion are all lacking...:facepalm

yeah I know it's to ease the pressure on himself in some ways, but the thing is I am convinced every PG in the league will want to carve him up because of the media attention and that contract he's got. And the fact that he owned up to his knee isn't 100%, they're going to go at him harder.

Unless it's a bluff like in tennis, where Novak pretends he's injured and then starts running like a jack rabbit as quoted by the great Roger Federer. :roll:[/QUOTE]

I said this when he was on the Knicks too, he's going to have to learn to play sometimes where he sets up the offense for a post up guy, etc. and backs off. It will enable him to do less and save his body and it will give the team more upside. Even at his best he's not good to a level you want him with the ball in his hand every moment, he's not Lebron. His fans take this as a huge insult.

[QUOTE=niko]I said this when he was on the Knicks too, he's going to have to learn to play sometimes where he sets up the offense for a post up guy, etc. and backs off. It will enable him to do less and save his body and it will give the team more upside. Even at his best he's not good to a level you want him with the ball in his hand every moment, he's not Lebron. His fans take this as a huge insult.[/QUOTE]

seems like everyone takes this as a huge insult. You can't win with Jeremy Lin playing THAT ball dominant. It is a dead end. Weird thing is that he doesn't seem to be able to play any other way. With that said, I wouldn't want him starting for my team.

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]seems like everyone takes this as a huge insult. You can't win with Jeremy Lin playing THAT ball dominant. It is a dead end. Weird thing is that he doesn't seem to be able to play any other way. [B]With that said, I wouldn't want him starting for my team.[/B][/QUOTE]

That depends on what other options you have at point guard. I don't think there are 20 point guards in the league you can say are definitely better than Lin. But when your point guard is Steve Nash, then it is a no brainer.

The comment about Lin being ball dominant... Steve Nash has never won anything being ball dominant, and he had a much better team than Lin. Your comment says more about the ability of ball dominant point guards to win championships as the number one option, than it says anything about Lin as a player.

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]seems like everyone takes this as a huge insult. You can't win with Jeremy Lin playing THAT ball dominant. It is a dead end. Weird thing is that he doesn't seem to be able to play any other way. With that said, I wouldn't want him starting for my team.[/QUOTE]

Everyone wanted Melo to adjust to him, and that was false. Yes, Melo need to adjust. **** yes. BUT They needed to adjust to each other. He was going to turn Melo into basically a spot up shooter. That's not optimizing talent. Plus it made him have to do so much that ultimately he broke down. I mean we asked him to do a lot. 40+ minutes, defend, have the ball at all times, drive and take hits.

[QUOTE=plUto or bUst]That depends on what other options you have at point guard. I don't think there are 20 point guards in the league you can say are definitely better than Lin. But when your point guard is Steve Nash, then it is a no brainer.

The comment about Lin being ball dominant... Steve Nash has never won anything being ball dominant, and he had a much better team than Lin. Your comment says more about the ability of ball dominant point guards to win championships as the number one option, than it says anything about Lin as a player.[/QUOTE]

I would take a pg with lesser numbers that fit a role that could be conducive to winning a championship. I do think there are over 20 pgs better than Lin. Especially whether you consider there ability to git into team concepts.

I'd take Mario Chalmers and Eric Bledsoe over lin easily.

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]I would take a pg with lesser numbers that fit a role that could be conducive to winning a championship. I do think there are over 20 pgs better than Lin. Especially whether you consider there ability to git into team concepts.

I'd take Mario Chalmers and Eric Bledsoe over lin easily.[/QUOTE]

I'd swap Lin for Mario Chalmers as a Heat fan, as long as it meant salaries wouldn't be an issue.

You think Lin wouln't be able to adapt to the fact that Dwyane Wade and LeBron James are going to handling the ball and creating? Lin has enough basketball IQ to recognize that they're better at creating a high percentage play than he is.

On the other end Lin actually takes charges a lot better than Chalmers (who takes little to none), and he does a good job playing scrappy, which reminds me of Chalmers as a rookie.

[QUOTE=InfiniteBaskets]I'd swap Lin for Mario Chalmers as a Heat fan, as long as it meant salaries wouldn't be an issue.

You think Lin wouln't be able to adapt to the fact that Dwyane Wade and LeBron James are going to handling the ball and creating? Lin has enough basketball IQ to recognize that they're better at creating a high percentage play than he is.

On the other end Lin actually takes charges a lot better than Chalmers (who takes little to none), and he does a good job playing scrappy, which reminds me of Chalmers as a rookie.[/QUOTE]
I don't thin Lin is a particularly smart pg. He would not thrive playing with LeBron. He would serve no purpose on that team.

he doesn't have the skills to play off those guys.

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME][B]I would take a pg with lesser numbers that fit a role that could be conducive to winning a championship.[/B] I do think there are over 20 pgs better than Lin. Especially whether you consider there ability to git into team concepts.

I'd take Mario Chalmers and Eric Bledsoe over lin easily.[/QUOTE]

That's where you and me differ. I take the PG who I think is better skilled every single time. The better skilled PG could probably adjust his game to gel into a championship team better than a lesser skilled PG can. There is no evidence that Lin wouldn't be able to adjust his game. He played pretty well with both Amare and Carmelo under Woodson.

The argument you bring is situational, not of one that has bearing on who is the better point guard. Mario Chalmers excelled in a 4th or 5th banana role, and Bledsoe may be a decent energy guy off the bench, but would you take them to run your team? Would you take them over guys like Lowry, Lawson, or Rubio, who understand how to run a team, but probably wouldn't play as well as in a non-starter role, or a non-ball handling role?

Maybe I can understand Chalmers over Lin, especially since he excelled in his (limited) role. But I don't see how anyone can argue for a guy like Bledsoe. To me, that's just being a hater. What has Bledsoe done to show he is "easily" better than Lin?

Linsanity was over half way into Linsanity.

It only got so stupidly far because of the Asian factor and all the $$$ and rating/magazine purchases, etc. that meant for everyone.

[QUOTE=plUto or bUst]That's where you and me differ. I take the PG who I think is better skilled every single time. The better skilled PG could probably adjust his game to gel into a championship team better than a lesser skilled PG can. There is no evidence that Lin wouldn't be able to adjust his game. He played pretty well with both Amare and Carmelo under Woodson.

The argument you bring is situational, not of one that has bearing on who is the better point guard. Mario Chalmers excelled in a 4th or 5th banana role, and Bledsoe may be a decent energy guy off the bench, but would you take them to run your team? Would you take them over guys like Lowry, Lawson, or Rubio, who understand how to run a team, but probably wouldn't play as well as in a non-starter role, or a non-ball handling role?

Maybe I can understand Chalmers over Lin, especially since he excelled in his (limited) role. But I don't see how anyone can argue for a guy like Bledsoe. To me, that's just being a hater. What has Bledsoe done to show he is "easily" better than Lin?[/QUOTE]

we are too far apart on thism I don't think Lin is a smart player. He is reckless and only thrives playing one way. He is also a reckless defender and oftentimes lazy. Unlike many I think he is a good athlete but plays mostly off instinct and doesn't understand how to run a t
team. He is out there playing checkers and not managing games.
my pick of Bledsoe is because he plays elite defense and is competant in other areas. It also has to do with the fact that I don't think you can win playing the way Pin has to play. Imo he really is very similar to Ramon Sessions.

"I don't think you can win playing the way Lin has to play"

:facepalm

All he does is LIN! :dancin

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]we are too far apart on thism I don't think Lin is a smart player. He is reckless and only thrives playing one way. He is also a reckless defender and oftentimes lazy. Unlike many I think he is a good athlete but plays mostly off instinct and doesn't understand how to run a t
team. He is out there playing checkers and not managing games.
my pick of Bledsoe is because he plays elite defense and is competant in other areas. It also has to do with the fact that I don't think you can win playing the way Pin has to play. Imo he really is very similar to Ramon Sessions.[/QUOTE]

da faq. lin is already better than sessions ever was . and lin is basicly still a rookie (played fewer than 30 games)

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]I don't thin Lin is a particularly smart pg. He would not thrive playing with LeBron. He would serve no purpose on that team.

he doesn't have the skills to play off those guys.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't take a great PG to play off of LeBron and Wade. Chris Quinn could play off of LBJ and Wade.

And I would have to disagree with your assertion of Lin not being a smart PG. How are you defining smart in this case? The ability to make good decisions with the basketball?

I actually think Lin is smarter than most PG's with the basketball with the exception of guys like Nash, Kidd, CP3, Rondo.. the obvious elite guys. But I'd say Lin is a smarter distributor than Westbrook. The difference is Lin doesn't excel athletically, so he can't always get to where he needs to be in order to make a play.

Lin's instinct is usually to beat his man off the pick and roll, or off the dribble and draw in a big defender so that he can dump it off to his own center or power forward. He runs into problems when he plays athletic defenses that are able to shut him down because he's not quick enough and can't jump high enough to force the defense to commit.

[QUOTE]It doesn't take a great PG to play off of LeBron and Wade. Chris Quinn could play off of LBJ and Wade.[/QUOTE]

I don't watch much of Chris Quinn but I remember him being a shooter. Apples and Oranges. Regardless, I wouldn't want him starting either.


[QUOTE]And I would have to disagree with your assertion of Lin not being a smart PG. How are you defining smart in this case? The ability to make good decisions with the basketball?[/QUOTE]

ability to run a basketball and fit into the teams gameplan to optimize the talent available. Lin can only run one type of offense. When he doesn't he struggles and you hear "they are misusing him etc."

[QUOTE]I actually think Lin is smarter than most PG's with the basketball with the exception of guys like Nash, Kidd, CP3, Rondo.. the obvious elite guys. But I'd say Lin is a smarter distributor than Westbrook. The difference is Lin doesn't excel athletically, so he can't always get to where he needs to be in order to make a play.
[/QUOTE]
Lin's instinct is usually to beat his man off the pick and roll, or off the dribble and draw in a big defender so that he can dump it off to his own center or power forward. He runs into problems when he plays athletic defenses that are able to shut him down because he's not quick enough and can't jump high enough to force the defense to commit.[/QUOTE]

you don't have to be a smart pg to be smarter than Westbrook. However, I can name 40 pgs smarter than Jermey Lin. At best he is average. He doesn't manage games, he doesn't know when to get certain players the ball and how to put them in the best spots to succeed. He simply runs his pick and roll to the best of his ability. Being a point guard is about much more than that. And it isn't just those guys you mentioned. He reminds me of Ramon Sessions because they have the same exact strengths and weaknesses. This can be seen especially here.

[QUOTE]As far as when Lin runs into trouble. It has nothing to do with athletes. It has to do with disciplined defenses that stick to their principals. Lin often jumps into the air pass or recklessly drives into situations hoping for something good to happen. When the defenses are sound these situations produce turnovers for most players.
[/QUOTE]
As far as Lin's athletism. I would actually rank him well above average in the category. He is one of the most athletic pgs in the entire league. This is what bothers me the most. Don't underrate his athleticism and than overrate his intelligence.

It has nothing to do with not being fast enough or jumping high enough in the pick and roll. Andre Miller, Mark Jackson, Rick Rubio, old Nash all run that play against all types of athletes. It has to do with decision making and fundamentally sound play. That is where Lin lacks. He is reckless and a poor game manager. These are not traits you want in a starting pg. If you have to deal with them then he better be at top player in the league.

LMAO! Here's a neg rep I received. :oldlol:

"cry more gook"

He'd better be good, I have Lin on my fantasy team.

[QUOTE=madmax17]He'd better be good, I have Lin on my fantasy team.[/QUOTE]

You'll get assists and steals for sure...

Jesus he's been stinkin' up the joint :facepalm

1-8 today, 2 points :facepalm

Look it's just preseason but DAMN look at these stats:

20 minutes, 1-3 (0-2 from 3), 3 points, 1 rebound, 6 assists, 3 steals, 3 turnovers
23 minutes, 2-6, 9 pts, 1 reb, 7 assists, 2 steals, 2 TO's
25 minutes, 1-10 (0-3), 4 pts, 1 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 2 TO's
31 minutes, 3-9 (0-3), 7 pts, 5 reb, 12 ast, 4 stl, 2 TO's
31 minutes, 1-8 (0-1), 2 pts, 3 reb, 5 ast, 2 stl, 6 TO's



Averages: 26.0 MPG, 5.0 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 6.2 APG, 2.4 SPG, 3.0 TO, .222 FG%, .000 3P% (0-9), .600 FT%



:roll: :facepalm

Chalmers>Lin

Though I hate is hype, maybe he can still becoming promising starter in this league.

Off course, his preseason stats won't mean much, but he has to bring it in the regular season. He's got his work cut out for him.

Preseason stats don't mean much, but he's been disconcertingly bad IMO.

[QUOTE=RRR3]Preseason stats don't mean much, but he's been disconcertingly bad IMO.[/QUOTE]

Being on what looks like will be a bad team doesn't help things either, especially sine your not that proven of player.

Although, I'd hope he proves me wrong.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Being on what looks like will be a bad team doesn't help things either, especially sine your not that proven of player.

Although, I'd hope he proves me wrong.[/QUOTE]
I asked you this a while ago, but what do you do for a living? You seem to be on here constantly.

And yet when he's played, they are 4-1
And 3rd highest offense rating so far of all the teams

His defence was very good today as well
Actually Rockets team defense as a whole was very good.

[QUOTE=RRR3]Jesus he's been stinkin' up the joint :facepalm

1-8 today, 2 points :facepalm

Look it's just preseason but DAMN look at these stats:

20 minutes, 1-3 (0-2 from 3), 3 points, 1 rebound, 6 assists, 3 steals, 3 turnovers
23 minutes, 2-6, 9 pts, 1 reb, 7 assists, 2 steals, 2 TO's
25 minutes, 1-10 (0-3), 4 pts, 1 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 2 TO's
31 minutes, 3-9 (0-3), 7 pts, 5 reb, 12 ast, 4 stl, 2 TO's
31 minutes, 1-8 (0-1), 2 pts, 3 reb, 5 ast, 2 stl, 6 TO's

Averages: 26.0 MPG, 5.0 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 6.2 APG, 2.4 SPG, 3.0 TO, .222 FG%, .000 3P% (0-9), .600 FT%



:roll: :facepalm[/QUOTE]

Lin the all-star :bowdown:

Most overrated player in the league BY FAR.

Remember Mike James '06.