After months of rockets flying into Israel, Hamas military chief dead, fighting rises

[QUOTE=LJJ]For "the West" and the people of Israel "this venture" overall has been a resounding success though. I don't know why you think the originators of this plain would be unhappy with this outcome.

The state of Israel exists. It's the most progressive nation in the Middle East, certainly per capita the strongest nation in the Middle East both economically and militarily and the only unambiguous ally of western civilization in the region.

What's the loss? [B]That a globally tiny group of people is being oppressed and denied freedom?[/B] I'm sure the good outweighs the bad for Britain and the United States.[/QUOTE]
Do you really think that Israel would "deny freedom" and "oppress" Palestine if they weren't sending suicide bombers in to Jerusalem markets and launching hundreds of rockets a day at Israeli civilians, and electing terrorists in to office?

Do you really believe that if Palestine wanted peace, laid down their arms, and gave up terrorist criminals to Israel that Israel would not work with them and try to become peaceful neighbors?

Israel did it with Lebanon. They did it with Egypt. They did it with Jordan. Why is Palestine different now?

All they want is peace. Do you think they like this war? Do you think they like killing Palestinians?

[QUOTE=millwad]This is getting beyond silly, Jeff/Steve deletes everything that doesn't fit his agenda but as long as you share his views some what about the situation you can basically write anything.

Nick-Young was trying to misinform people and he also posted terrible and biased "sources" and I only confronted his nonsense and asked for honest and unbiased sources. And my last reply was mainly about the fact that he called me anti-semitic which is just offensive and stupid, he basically played the "jew card" and this is not the first time he has done so, once before he called me a "jew hater" and later he told me he was sorry for his stupidness. He and everyone else are more than welcome to point out where I've been anti-semitic..

Calling someone "anti-semitic" is obviously not offensive according to Jeff/Steve but confronting a poster after he for no reason called me anti-semitic is "offensive"..[/QUOTE]
You repeatedly saying "Jews lie to fit their agenda", implying there is some Western conspiracy of lies that support Israel, implying that Israel are evil bullies who enjoy murdering palestinian babies, and defending Hamas rocket attacks with the excuse "what else are they supposed to do?" and your overall continued support and apologist rhetoric supporting Jew hating terrorists in Palestine leads me to the conclusion that you are anti-semetic. Hate Crime organizations would classify these behaviors as the same thing.

Here is what history says:
When Jordainians accept Palestinian refugees into their country, the Palestinians tried to overthrow the Jordan people and started a bloody war.

When Egypt wants peace with Israel, Israel gives back Sinai to Egypt. Peace is made.

When Jordan wants peace with Israel, they make peace. Peace is made.

When Lebanon wants peace with Israel, they make peace. Peace is made.


History shows if you lay down your arms and make a genuine attempt at a peace treaty, ISRAEL WILL MAKE PEACE WITH YOU. That is all Palestine has to do, install a normal government and not blast rockets at Israeli civilians. Israel will even probably move the crazy settlers off the West Bank, just like they gave Sinai back to Egypt. it really isn't that hard to NOT SEND ROCKETS AT CIVILIANS.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Do you really think that Israel would "deny freedom" and "oppress" Palestine if they weren't sending suicide bombers in to Jerusalem markets and launching hundreds of rockets a day at Israeli civilians, and electing terrorists in to office?

Do you really believe that if Palestine wanted peace, laid down their arms, and gave up terrorist criminals to Israel that Israel would not work with them and try to become peaceful neighbors?

Israel did it with Lebanon. They did it with Egypt. They did it with Jordan. Why is Palestine different now?

All they want is peace. Do you think they like this war? Do you think they like killing Palestinians?[/QUOTE]

Obviously yes. One only needs to look at the current West Bank to see Israel's intentions. They are taking the West Bank bit by bit, despite very meager resistance and aggression by Palestine. One of the differences is that Israel simply wouldn't be able to overtake those countries, Israel simply isn't big enough and doesn't have the population numbers to deal with that.

More importantly though: the difference between most of those countries and the Palestinian territories is that the latter has a much larger concentration of Biblical sites. And while probably the majority of Zionist feel that they should just let the West Bank be, there is a large portion of more religiously fanatic Israeli's who feel the entire bit is theirs decreed by Yahweh. And the former group isn't really willing strongly oppose the latter group, because the unity of the population is at stake. Israel isn't as stable as many people believe: strongly cracking down in West Bank settling -which by any means is what should be happening- would create a massive divisive ripple in Israel.

[QUOTE=LJJ]Obviously yes. One only needs to look at the current West Bank to see Israel's intentions. They are taking the West Bank bit by bit, despite very meager resistance and aggression by Palestine. [B]One of the differences is that Israel simply wouldn't be able to overtake those countries, Israel simply isn't big enough and doesn't have the population numbers to deal with that[/B].

More importantly though: the difference between most of those countries and the Palestinian territories is that the latter has a much larger concentration of Biblical sites. And while probably the majority of Zionist feel that they should just let the West Bank be, there is a large portion of more religiously fanatic Israeli's who feel the entire bit is theirs decreed by Yahweh. And the former group isn't really willing strongly oppose the latter group, because the unity of the population is at stake. Israel isn't as stable as many people believe: strongly cracking down in West Bank settling -which by any means is what should be happening- would create a massive divisive ripple in Israel.[/QUOTE]
You are stupid if you believe that. Israel was easily able to push to within 50 miles of Cairo in two days in a counter attack, and then turned around voluntarily, and then later gave back all conquered land to Egypt. They destroyed the entire Egyptian airforce WITH ONE ATTACK. They have defeated all surrounding Arab nations teamed up against them several times throughout history.

Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, they would all be demolished by Israel if it came to all out battle.

So what you're saying is you believe that Israelis enjoy murdering Palestinians?:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Nick Young]You repeatedly saying "Jews lie to fit their agenda", implying there is some Western conspiracy of lies that support Israel, implying that Israel are evil bullies who enjoy murdering palestinian babies, and defending Hamas rocket attacks with the excuse "what else are they supposed to do?" leads me to the conclusion that you are[B] anti-semetic[/B]. Hate Crime organizations would classify these behaviors as the same thing.[/QUOTE]

Haha, what?
I have never said that "jews lie to fit their agenda", go and find something where I even wrote anything close to that. Go ahead, I'm tired of you calling me a "jew hater" and you should learn what anti-semitic is. You're totally clueless.

And I have never written that Israel are evil bulliues who enjoy killing Palestinian babies. Go back one page and stop making stupid claims, this conflict is due the actions of both sides. I don't support Hamas but people like you're doing too big deal out of Hamas and this conflict existed decades before Hamas even was founded.

[B]I am discussing the actions of Israel, I am not writing about religion or blaming Judaism for anything. You obviously have no clue what antisemitism is and what one anti-semitic person stand for.
[/B]
You don't even know how to spell "[SIZE="3"][B]anti-semitic[/B][/SIZE]"...:facepalm

Educate yourself, I guess that I'm suddenly anti-christan as well considering that I condemn plenty of actions of the US. How stupid doesn't that sound? It's funny that you label people as anti-semitic just because they condemn the actions of the COUNTRY Israel.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]You are stupid if you believe that. Israel was easily able to push to within 50 miles of Cairo in two days in a counter attack, and then turned around voluntarily, and then later gave back all conquered land to Egypt. They destroyed the entire Egyptian airforce WITH ONE ATTACK. They have defeated all surrounding Arab nations teamed up against them several times throughout history.

Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, they would all be demolished by Israel if it came to all out battle.

So what you're saying is you believe that Israelis enjoy murdering Palestinians?:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Out of all that LJJ said, you choose to point out that Israel has the military capability to take on any of their neighbors....ignoring his point about land grabs....but then again, there is no justification for Palestinian aggression and never has been. lol

I'm just curious, why do you always get such a hard-on when talking about Israel's military power? For someone as "peace loving" as you, it's weird. lol

[QUOTE=Nick Young]You are stupid if you believe that. Israel was easily able to push to within 50 miles of Cairo in two days in a counter attack, and then turned around voluntarily, and then later gave back all conquered land to Egypt. They destroyed the entire Egyptian airforce WITH ONE ATTACK. They have defeated all surrounding Arab nations teamed up against them several times throughout history.

Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, they would all be demolished by Israel if it came to all out battle.

So what you're saying is you believe that Israelis enjoy murdering Palestinians?:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

They could easily beat the military of any those countries of course, combined even, but an enduring occupation and annexation of those countries would be impossible.

But cute how you ignore the bit where I posted:


[B][U]More importantly though:[/U][/B] the difference between most of those countries and the Palestinian territories is that the latter has a much larger concentration of Biblical sites. And while probably the majority of Zionist feel that they should just let the West Bank be, there is a large portion of more religiously fanatic Israeli's who feel the entire bit is theirs decreed by Yahweh. And the former group isn't really willing strongly oppose the latter group, because the unity of the population is at stake. Israel isn't as stable as many people believe: strongly cracking down in West Bank settling -which by any means is what should be happening- would create a massive divisive ripple in Israel.

If you know anything about Israel you know this is true, and this is why the whole West Bank settling is happening. The Palestinians did nothing to provoke it.

[QUOTE]thats not justification to keep launching rockets into Israel territory then cry to the rest of the world for sympathy when they retaliate and kill 10x's as many Palestinians.
[/QUOTE]
So why did you guys cried to the world for sympathy when the Muslims retaliated and blowed up the twin towers? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=insidehoops]
But as for what you said, that Israel "stole a country" -- that's just FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

Palestine was NEVER a country. It was a land territory.
[/QUOTE]
So they stole land instead of a country, yes completely different.

And I quoted someone that based his opinion on facts and world history that everyone acknowledges, many of it from Jewish literature. So if you wanna say someone is wrong, please don't say it's me.

IT's old news? It's 2012? Survival of the fittest? Why don't you guys try to rape a women and when the cops show up the next day, you can't tell them, it's old news, it's been a day, survival of the fittest. And just because the cops don't show that doesn't make you less of a rapist.

I love how right wint christian idiots are stuck on the 15th century and then act suprised how people don't vote in them.

It's the 21 century, you don't take land, you give it, Spain, Portugal, UK, they all gave up their colonies, shit even the East Timor got their independece, US decides to make a beachhead on the middle east.

There's no solution? The solution is pretty simple, why don't israel give back the land that stole? Why don't they got back to the original UN resolution? The one that gave palestinians 1\3 third of the land despite being 2\3 of the population? The palestinias leaders already made their Mea Culpa and said it was a mistake not accept that deal, despite being a robbery on it's own.

Israel ain't leaving? let's see how they do without their big brother behind them. I'm sure Egipt, Siria and Jordan didn't forget the land that was stole from them.

[url]http://www.meforum.org/3121/jordan-is-palestinian[/url]

Why the hell would Israel agree to go back to the original UN partition? It's moronic to think that would and even more so to think that they should. That partition doesn't matter. It was never accepted by Palestinians. As for the land of palestine being "stolen" when do you consider it to have been stolen? Historically it has been controlled by either group at multiple different times throughout history. So the militant control gained prior to the creation of Israel by the Muslims is valid but anything after that isn't? Foolish

[QUOTE=raiderfan19]Why the hell would Israel agree to go back to the original UN partition? It's moronic to think that would and even more so to think that they should. That partition doesn't matter. It was never accepted by Palestinians. As for the land of palestine being "stolen" when do you consider it to have been stolen? Historically it has been controlled by either group at multiple different times throughout history. So the militant control gained prior to the creation of Israel by the Muslims is valid but anything after that isn't? Foolish[/QUOTE]

The Wiki article actually gives a pretty good outline of the situation:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement[/url]


Even Israel's official, outwardly communicated policy is that the current settlement activity is wrong and against international law. The problem is that they don't actively do anything to stop it and actually do plenty to endorse it. That is the root of why you see people like me calling the current activities of Israel deceitful and disgusting. It would be one thing for Israel to state "Okay we officially oppose the Geneva Convention agreements now, we defy agreed upon international law and we will annex most of the West Bank". That would at least be honest. It's an entirely different thing to say to the international community that they abide by the Geneva Convention, they abide by international law and they really do want peace between Palestine and Israel, but then still proceed to annex the West Bank anyway. Which is exactly what they are doing now.

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]So why did you guys cried to the world for sympathy when the Muslims retaliated and blowed up the twin towers? :confusedshrug:

So they stole land instead of a country, yes completely different.

And I quoted someone that based his opinion on facts and world history that everyone acknowledges, many of it from Jewish literature. So if you wanna say someone is wrong, please don't say it's me.

IT's old news? It's 2012? Survival of the fittest? Why don't you guys try to rape a women and when the cops show up the next day, you can't tell them, it's old news, it's been a day, survival of the fittest. And just because the cops don't show that doesn't make you less of a rapist.

I love how right wint christian idiots are stuck on the 15th century and then act suprised how people don't vote in them.

It's the 21 century, you don't take land, you give it, Spain, Portugal, UK, they all gave up their colonies, shit even the East Timor got their independece, US decides to make a beachhead on the middle east.

There's no solution? The solution is pretty simple, why don't israel give back the land that stole? Why don't they got back to the original UN resolution? The one that gave palestinians 1\3 third of the land despite being 2\3 of the population? The palestinias leaders already made their Mea Culpa and said it was a mistake not accept that deal, despite being a robbery on it's own.

Israel ain't leaving? let's see how they do without their big brother behind them. I'm sure Egipt, Siria and Jordan didn't forget the land that was stole from them.[/QUOTE]

it wasn't 2012 when the land was given to them, or rather taken away.

i just hope you're not one of the ones guilt tripping Palestinian deaths every day if you're so unreasonable about a practical solution. since thats whats happening and most of the people getting hurt every day while some of you are so stuck on fighting for it.

and its not like it was an offer they can accept any time later now that they realize they should've taken it when it was offered.

[QUOTE=raiderfan19]Why the hell would Israel agree to go back to the original UN partition? It's moronic to think that would and even more so to think that they should. That partition doesn't matter. It was never accepted by Palestinians. As for the land of palestine being "stolen" when do you consider it to have been stolen? Historically it has been controlled by either group at multiple different times throughout history. So the militant control gained prior to the creation of Israel by the Muslims is valid but anything after that isn't? Foolish[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://fasttimesinpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/four-panel-map.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Droid101][IMG]http://fasttimesinpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/four-panel-map.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
So time started in 1946?

People taking land from other people has been happening since the beginning of human history. Get used to it.

Why is everyone whining about this? Look at what China has been doing to Tibet since the 1950s. Do you think the remaining Navajo should be given all of Arizona and Utah as a nation of their own? Should the Iroquois that are still alive be given New York? Should Spain give up Catalonia to the Catalans? Should Canada and Alaska be given to the Eskimos? Does Australia belong to the aborigines? New Zealand to the Maoris?

What about Asia? Shouldn't it all belong to Mongolia?

Why are there black people in Brazil? That land belongs to the natives!

Why are there Afrikaans in South Africa? They should be forced back in to Holland!

[QUOTE=Nick Young]People taking land from other people has been happening since the beginning of human history. Get used to it.

Why is everyone whining about this? Look at what China has been doing to Tibet since the 1950s. Do you think the remaining Navajo should be given all of Arizona and Utah as a nation of their own? Should the Iroquois that are still alive be given New York? Should Spain give up Catalonia to the Catalans? Should Canada and Alaska be given to the Eskimos?

What about Asia? Doesn't it all belong to Mongolia after Ghengis Kahn?[/QUOTE]

I don't know if you had some basic history lessons or anything, but the difference in this situation between now and hundreds+ years ago is that we as the developed world believe in basic human rights now. And that the only reason Israel was allowed to exist in the first place is because they promised to their daddy that they would place nice and abide by basic human rights.

No one is saying that the genocide committed by the Americans hundreds of years ago was a right, moral thing to do.

The only valid example you gave is China. Maybe you haven't heard, but most people aren't to thrilled with what China is up to in Tibet. Then again, at least China is like:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Ax9rp.gif[/IMG]

Israel is lying through their teeth about it, because they can't afford to lose the grace of the international community. But I guess you are right: Israel indeed is the moral equivalent of China, or 1700s Britain. The Israeli people are quite underdeveloped in that regard compared to much of the rest of the world.

The only statistics that need to be looked at are the relative birth rates of Israeli families vs the birth rates of Palestinian families. Israel isn't worried about territory they are worried that rapidly they will be outnumbered internally as well as externally.

The big flaw in any Israeli moral high ground or claims of wanting peace are the settlers. The longer the West Bank remains peaceful in spite of provocations the less excuses Israel has to not crack down on their own crackpots.

In general, as long as Palestinians in the West Bank keep from firing rockets and still find themselves in the situation they're in, no amount of suicidal craziness from Hamas will convince the rest of the world that Israel has the clear moral high ground. The right wing has loved to use Hamas rockets as an excuse to nix deals with the PA. Israel has to be actively pursuing real deals in the West Bank regardless of what Hamas is doing, otherwise they're simply not credible to anyone outside Israel.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]People taking land from other people has been happening since the beginning of human history. Get used to it.[/QUOTE]
So it's ok to be racist? I mean it has a deep and rich history, going back centuries and centuries... why is everyone whining about racism?



:roll:

[QUOTE=LJJ]I don't know if you had some basic history lessons or anything, but the difference in this situation between now and hundreds+ years ago is that[B] we as the developed world believe in basic human rights now.[/B] And that the only reason Israel was allowed to exist in the first place is because they promised to their daddy that they would place nice and abide by basic human rights.

No one is saying that the genocide committed by the Americans hundreds of years ago was a right, moral thing to do.

The only valid example you gave is China. Maybe you haven't heard, but most people aren't to thrilled with what China is up to in Tibet. Then again, at least China is like:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Ax9rp.gif[/IMG]

Israel is lying through their teeth about it, because they can't afford to lose the grace of the international community. But I guess you are right: Israel indeed is the moral equivalent of China, or 1700s Britain. The Israeli people are quite underdeveloped in that regard compared to much of the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]
LAWL we all believe in them but no one in charge follows them. Just look at all the "basic human rights" USA, Russia and China AKA the top 3 nations in the UN violate on a daily basis. UN is condemning things all the time as evil and still countries do it. The people in charge don't actually give a single f*ck about basic human rights, they just pretend to in order to keep the population quiet. Basically things are exactly the same now as they've always been, only there's a little judging international organization that doesn't actually do jack shit condemning it.

Silly Euros and their belief in the United Nations:roll:

[QUOTE=Nick Young]LAWL we all believe in them but no one in charge follows them. Just look at all the "basic human rights" USA, Russia and China AKA the top 3 nations in the UN violate on a daily basis. UN is condemning things all the time as evil and still countries do it.[B] The people in charge don't actually give a single f*ck about basic human rights[/B], they just pretend to in order to keep the population quiet. Basically things are exactly the same now as they've always been, only there's a little judging international organization that doesn't actually do jack shit condemning it.

Silly Euros and their belief in the United Nations:roll:[/QUOTE]


So we understand each other then.

Just a second ago you were crying that the Israel didn't enjoy hurting the Palestinians and that peace was possible if only the Palestinians cooperated and Israel is doing everything it can to ensure peace.

And now you agree with me that Israel doesn't give a f[COLOR="Black"]uck[/COLOR] about the Palestinians and doesn't give a fu[COLOR="Black"]ck[/COLOR] about peace. Essentially now you agree that Israel is exactly the vile, piece of shit country people in this country have been saying it is. What are you arguing in this thread for then. Lol.

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]So they stole land instead of a country, yes completely different.
[/QUOTE]

No, Israel didn't "steal" land, either. The countries that surround Israel kept making war after war after war trying to wipe Israel out, and kept losing the wars. Whoops.

As for "refugees," there were 700something thousand Arab refugees from Israel, but there were also about one million Jewish refugees from Arab countries, and most of them now live in Israel.

So that's that.

[QUOTE=Droid101] (MAPS)
[/QUOTE]

Wow, again, it's 2012, yet we still have people trying to "prove" that Israel is wrong for even existing. It's not the 1940's anymore.

Anyway, the problem with the maps droid101 posted:

1) Time didn't start in 1946 or 1948. 80 percent of Palestine was removed already and became Jordan. These maps ignore that.

2) It was the countries that surround Israel that kept making war against Israel, and lost the wars, and kept losing land. These maps don't mention that.

3) Israel didn't control the land outside of Israel between 1948 and 1967. The Palestinian side CHOSE NOT TO FORM A STATE. Why wan't a Palestinian state formed between 1948 and 1967? Answer: Because the people who surrounded Israel didn't want one. They just kept attacking Israel.

4) These maps also neglect to mention that one million Jewish people were refugees from the entire Arab world, and they had nowhere to go and wound up going to Israel.

I can go on, but again, it's 2012 now, not the 1940's.

Furthermore, for an even better map, look at the entire Middle East, notice that Israel (less than 1 percent) is so tiny you can barely even see it, and then wonder why that entire region of the world keeps trying to make it even smaller

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]Israel ain't leaving? let's see how they do without their big brother behind them. I'm sure Egipt, Siria and Jordan didn't forget the land that was stole from them.[/QUOTE]

Correct, Israel isn't leaving.

Sorry that this concept is so confusing/upsetting, that Israel plans to continue to exist, and to protect itself.

As for what you're saying, you don't even know what you're talking about. Israel actually gave back the only land they had from Egypt that Egypt wanted decades ago, the Sinai desert.

Jordan hadn't lost any land to Israel that they want back, either.

Syria does want the Golan Heights from Israel, but as I presume you've noticed, Syria has killed about 35,000 Arabs this year and isn't exactly led by the kind of people you do any favors for.

[QUOTE=LJJ]So we understand each other then.

Just a second ago you were crying that the Israel didn't enjoy hurting the Palestinians and that peace was possible if only the Palestinians cooperated and Israel is doing everything it can to ensure peace.

And now you agree with me that Israel doesn't give a f[COLOR="Black"]uck[/COLOR] about the Palestinians and doesn't give a fu[COLOR="Black"]ck[/COLOR] about peace. Essentially now you agree that Israel is exactly the vile, piece of shit country people in this country have been saying it is. What are you arguing in this thread for then. Lol.[/QUOTE]
not really. Thanks for spewing another load of bullshit:applause:

The obsession with trying to make Israel smaller is pretty insane.

Go look at a map of the entire region.

The exchange between LJJ and Nick Young sorta makes no sense. Arguing for the sake of arguing.

[QUOTE=insidehoops]The exchange between LJJ and Nick Young sorta makes no sense. Arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]

Logic has never been Nick Young's strong suit, eh? :roll:

[QUOTE=insidehoops]No, Israel didn't "steal" land, either. The countries that surround Israel kept making war after war after war trying to wipe Israel out, and kept losing the wars. Whoops.

As for "refugees," there were 700something thousand Arab refugees from Israel, but there were also about one million Jewish refugees from Arab countries, and most of them now live in Israel.

So that's that.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. You can't "steal" something that never belonged to someone else.
They(Arabs) brutally lost the wars, they have to deal with the consequences, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

[QUOTE=Dolphin]Logic has never been Nick Young's strong suit, eh? :roll:[/QUOTE]

seriously. when has nick young ever argued for anything other than the sake of arguing?

after all these years, why would anybody expect his arguments to suddenly make sense? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Nick Young]not really. Thanks for spewing another load of bullshit:applause:[/QUOTE]

Human rights isn't bullshit. Israel going against the Geneva convention and international law isn't bullshit. It's sad to me when ordinary people are in a bad condition because of religious nutjobs and macro-politics. I guess not for everybody.


But I understand. I have argued against the atrocities the Palestinians commit as well as the atrocities Israel commits. Some people have such an ingrained sense of partisanship that they can only recognize when one side does evil, but not the other.

[QUOTE=insidehoops]
2) It was the countries that surround Israel that kept making war against Israel, and lost the wars, and kept losing land. These maps don't mention that.
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War#Allegations_of_military_support_from_the_U.S..2C_UK_and_Soviet_Union[/url]


[url]http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html[/url]

No agenda there

[QUOTE=Nick Young]People taking land from other people has been happening since the beginning of human history. Get used to it.

Why is everyone whining about this? Look at what China has been doing to Tibet since the 1950s. Do you think the remaining Navajo should be given all of Arizona and Utah as a nation of their own? Should the Iroquois that are still alive be given New York? Should Spain give up Catalonia to the Catalans? Should Canada and Alaska be given to the Eskimos? Does Australia belong to the aborigines? New Zealand to the Maoris?

What about Asia? Shouldn't it all belong to Mongolia?

Why are there black people in Brazil? That land belongs to the natives!

Why are there Afrikaans in South Africa? They should be forced back in to Holland![/QUOTE]

This is why people have no respect for you, when people use the time aspect in this matter when they criticize the fact that Israel is occupying land that doesn't belong to them you write nonsense like the stuff above.

But on the other hand, when it fits your agenda you're more than willing to go 2500 years back in history just to make your points valid, in this case justifying the occupation.. How does following text from you in this thread even makes sense when you also write the stuff like above when it doesn't fit agenda? So going back some 50 years back in history to make a case for the Palestinians is way out of line but when defending Israel you're more than willing to go 2500 years back in time a la;

[QUOTE=Nick Young]
[B]2500 years ago the Jews were kicked out of their homeland by the Persians. 2500 years later the Jews go back to their homeland, and the Arab muslims cannot handle it. Before Islam even existed the Jews were in Israel and Jerusalem. While the arabs were just random tribes fighting amongst eachother, living in the desert, the Jews were in Israel, living in Jerusalem.[/B]


[/QUOTE]

Insane Hamas refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel, even if it means Gaza getting badly messed up as a result

That's what happens when a suicidal death cult are X's leaders. They happily volunteer X for suicide.

Oh well.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfmWurRgmMM"][B]Nobody's innocent in this shit[/B][/URL]

[QUOTE=insidehoops]Insane Hamas refuse to stop firing rockets into Israel, even if it means Gaza getting badly messed up as a result

That's what happens when a suicidal death cult are X's leaders. They happily volunteer X for suicide.

Oh well.[/QUOTE]

Amazing how Muslim terrorists are the only ones willing to do suicide bombings. Unless I'm missing out on something. Talk about being brainwashed by their religion.

[QUOTE=Celtics4ever]Amazing how Muslim terrorists are the only ones willing to do suicide bombings. Unless I'm missing out on something. Talk about being brainwashed by their religion.[/QUOTE]

suicide is a mortal sin in the religion though and Jihad(holy struggle) does not simply mean killing people. As for them being brainwashed the same thing could be said about most religious people.

[QUOTE=MMM]suicide is a mortal sin in the religion though and Jihad(holy struggle) does not simply mean killing people. As for them being brainwashed the same thing could be said about most religious people.[/QUOTE]

Convincing people to be proud of killing themselves is a whole new level of brainwashing. Like in America kids want to be astronauts and NFL players when they grow up. These kids want to be suicide bombers. It's crazy.