[QUOTE=kNicKz]SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was
:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Did people miss this? How can you take this retard seriously :facepalm
Has to still be butthurt from the way wade would rape them the past decade.
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[QUOTE=kNicKz]SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was
:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Did people miss this? How can you take this retard seriously :facepalm
Has to still be butthurt from the way wade would rape them the past decade.
[QUOTE=Pacers4ever]Did people miss this? How can you take this retard seriously :facepalm[/QUOTE]
I responded on the first post, this page. Can't let shit like that slide by, even if it was trolling. But after reading this whole thread, I really don't think that guy is trolling rather it's baffling how much he's disrespecting Wade by think Pete freaking Maravich is in the same breath.
So no, I don't think anybody will take him seriously with some of the comments he made in this thread.
:oldlol:
Insidehoops: Where it's an accepted belief that pistol pete= gilbert arenas
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Pistol Pete? :oldlol: Other than stat-padding, what did he ever accomplished in the playoffs?
He was the original T-Mac; 4 playoff appearances (three 1st round exit when he was a star, 2nd Round exit when he was a benchwarmer)
EDIT: ...the guy has a T-Mac avatar too. LMAO.
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I responded on the first post, this page. Can't let shit like that slide by, even if it was trolling. But after reading this whole thread, I really don't think that guy is trolling rather it's baffling how much he's disrespecting Wade by think Pete freaking Maravich is in the same breath.
So no, I don't think anybody will take him seriously with some of the comments he made in this thread.
:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I think him being knicks fans and the post I've read in the past he's pretty much in general a heat hater, which makes sense if you take that rivalry seriously.
But when hate ****s up your logic into thinking pete > wade then it is time to pop them pills.
[QUOTE=kNicKz]Insidehoops: Where it's an accepted belief that pistol pete= gilbert arenas
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, I disagree with that completely and I brought that up in my post with Swoosh, though he said he's Gilbert Arenas caliber not equal... and that is because Pete was one the best passers ever and it was better than his scoring. Arenas was a true chucker.
But with all that said, Wade > Pistol and it's not close, I hope you were trolling man. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=DMV2]He was the original T-Mac; 4 playoff appearances (three 1st round exit when he was a star, 2nd Round exit when he was a benchwarmer)
EDIT: ...the guy has a T-Mac avatar too. LMAO.[/QUOTE]
I will give McGrady this, he was clearly a better playoff performer than Pistol Pete.
If you took away their bench years, McGrady has that by a mile for what it's worth.
I got D Wade #4 GOAT SG behind MJ, Kobe, and West. I think he has a great shot at passing West for the #3 slot down the road.
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]Hondo was a swing man, played a lot of games at what today would be called the 2. There wasn't really a shooting guard like it's called today, and there wasn't a point guard either. Not by the names. Today those guards would be called combo guards.
Point guard was a name used in college for a long time before anybody started using that in the pros, and it's false to say the name started with Magic Johnson, as I have seen around on boards. People were using that name around the NBA as early as maybe '75 or '77. No question that it really caught on with Magic though, maybe you could say he popularized it.
But anyhow, Havlicek was a swing man by any name of any era. He played a lot of frontcourt and he played a lot of backcourt.
In many ways, today's NBA is based on the John Havlicek model of player, more than any other single player, except maybe the sort of "cult of the next Mike Jordan" that's out there. Not because Havlicek is necessarily a guy the players or the fans respect or emulate or even heard of, but because that's the most effective way to play basketball. And the coaches and GMs all know it and look for that type of player.[/QUOTE]
U make an interesting observation about Hondo. And frankly I agree with u! Hondo at 6'5 was capable of playing AND defending PG to SF. He was also a great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder (for a perimter guy) all in one. Before Hondo, I can't really think of player as well rounded. Even with Big O, I don't think his defense qualifies as great. And even though Big O could play virutally PG-PF, he's known as the original big and dominant PG. Hondo was a SF or swingman so when u break it down like that, he was TRULY the precursor in many ways to guys like MJ, Kobe, Hill, Bron, Pippen etc. I do think Big O, Baylor, Hondo, and Barry were ahead of their time BIG TIME in the 60's and 70's.
It wasn't until 10-15 years later minimum that u saw players in that 6'5 to 6'7 range or even taller with that kind of talent more commonly. And even historically, u don't see many players as dominant and versatile as Hondo. Guys took what Hondo did the next level, MJ included. MJ was more similar to Hondo than he ever was to Magic or Bird. It was almost as if MJ took Dr. J's aerial assault, Gervin' scoring skillset, and combined with Hondo's epic all around versatility on both sides of the ball. Even today, Bron in many ways is evolved version in many ways to what Hondo brought to the table.
[QUOTE=bizil]U make an interesting observation about Hondo. And frankly I agree with u! Hondo at 6'5 was capable of playing AND defending PG to SF. He was also a great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder (for a perimter guy) all in one. Before Hondo, I can't really think of player as well rounded. Even with Big O, I don't think he defense qualifies as great. And even though Big O could play virutally PG-PF, he's known as the original big and dominant PG. Hondo was a SF or swingman so when u break it down like that, [B]he was TRULY the precursor in many ways to guys like MJ, Kobe, Hill, Bron, Pippen etc.[/B][/QUOTE] No, wrong... Based on testomony of actual players, what your suggesting doesn't sound like the reality of how things were at all, it sounds like this is nothing but revisionist history. The original medium sized "do it all" basketball player that could play both backcourt or frontcourt, and matchup against guards or forwards always traces back to Elgin Baylor who came into the scene in the late 50's several years before Hondo, and made far far greater impact. Baylor changed the game of basketball forever and revolutionized the impact of what players his size could do. It was not John Havlicek who set the mold for future "complete" players, it was Elgin Baylor.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]No, wrong... Based on testomony of actual players, what your suggesting doesn't sound like the reality of how things were at all, it sounds like this is nothing but revisionist history. The original medium sized "do it all" basketball player that could play both backcourt or frontcourt, and matchup against guards or forwards always traces back to Elgin Baylor who came into the seen in the late 50's several years before Hondo, and made far far greater impact. Baylor changed the game of basketball forever and revolutionized the impact of what players his size could do. It was not John Havlicek who set the mold for future "complete" players, it was Elgin Baylor.[/QUOTE]
All true.
But Hondo is, to me, the prototype or model because of his killer instinct, will to win, utter clutchness and above all.... He was completely missing what Baylor had on the other end of the court - atrocious matador defense.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]No, wrong... Based on testomony of actual players, what your suggesting doesn't sound like the reality of how things were at all, it sounds like this is nothing but revisionist history. The original medium sized "do it all" basketball player that could play both backcourt or frontcourt, and matchup against guards or forwards always traces back to Elgin Baylor who came into the scene in the late 50's several years before Hondo, and made far far greater impact. Baylor changed the game of basketball forever and revolutionized the impact of what players his size could do. It was not John Havlicek who set the mold for future "complete" players, it was Elgin Baylor.[/QUOTE]
Baylor was not a point forward kind of player. And Baylor wasn't a lockdown defender capable of locking down PG-SF. Baylor set the tone for the freak athlete scoring machine. Who also happened to be a good defender, great rebounder, and good passer. That mold of player to me is the blueprint for Dr.J. Or in terms of freak athletic ability and alpha dog scoring ability it also set the tone for MJ, Kobe, Bron, Drexler, Hawkins, etc.
Hondo was more technically sound than Baylor. And Hondo was GREAT at scoring, passing, boards, and defense all in one. I don't think Baylor was GREAT at all four facets, especially on a technical level like Hondo. I'm not saying Baylor wasn't a very good maybe great all around threat. But Hondo could flat out play AND defend PG-SF.
I believe peak value wise that Baylor is the better player. And in the evolution of bball was more important. But Hondo in my opinion was MORE of precursor than Baylor was to the swingmen who came later down the road. The responsibilities guys like MJ, Pippen, T Mac, Hill, Kobe, Drexler, Penny, Bron, etc. had on the court were more similar to Hondo type duties and versatility than Baylor type guys like a Dr.J or Hawkins. And Baylor of all intensive purposes was a SF-PF as opposed to a pure swingman like Hondo. Or a guy like MJ who was a SG but played plenty of PG and SF. In terms of technical brilliance and versatility for medium size players, Big O , Barry, and Hondo were more important in my book than Baylor was.
This is all everyone needs to know
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. everyone else
[QUOTE=BlueandGold]This is all everyone needs to know
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. everyone else[/QUOTE]
I think those two are clearly 1-2. After that the debates can begin. I'm inclined to think that West is 3, Wade 4, and Drexler 5. But after that u have guys like AI, Gervin, Pete, Pearl, Ray Ray, Sam Jones, Miller, and Dumars who all have a case for top 10. And don't sleep on the HOF type resumes guys like Vince, Bing, and Richmond put up. Guys like T Mac and David Thompson could have really shook up the ratings if it weren't for injuries or drugs. Both I think were looking like top 5-6 material and each in their own way were redefining the SG spot at the time they were going great.
I'm the biggest wade fan you will ever meet but I'm also an objective bball fan and there's no argument that wade is even in the same ballpark as Kobe
[QUOTE=STATUTORY]I'm the biggest wade fan you will ever meet but I'm also an objective bball fan and there's no argument that wade is even in the same ballpark as Kobe[/QUOTE]
In terms of longevity, no he is not in the same ballpark as kobe. Then again who really is.
[QUOTE=red1]In terms of longevity, no he is not in the same ballpark as kobe. Then again who really is.[/QUOTE]
in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.
And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe
[QUOTE=STATUTORY]in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.
And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe[/QUOTE]
I'm a Wade fan that thinks he's been complete ass for the past 1.5 seasons but in terms of peak and prime Wade DEFINITELY measures up to Kobe. Peak is a toss-up.
[QUOTE=STATUTORY]in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.
And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe[/QUOTE]
Stop saying you're a Wade fan, haha you're clearly not. Fooling no one.
Wade's peak stands up, but obviously not in longevity terms.
[QUOTE=STATUTORY]in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.
And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe[/QUOTE]
Niqqa stop lying. U one of the biggest Bryant fanatics on this shit. Trying to front :oldlol:
[QUOTE=STATUTORY][B]in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.[/B]
And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe[/QUOTE]
Hell no. From 06-11 he was just as good as prime kobe. Kobe is top 10 because of his amazing elite play for a long period of time, not because of his peak play.
Top 25 only because he won FMVP. If he didn't, Top 50. His resume went down after becoming LBJ's sidekick... and then becoming the Heat's 3rd most importantn player this year.
MJ
Kobe
West
Wade
Drexler
[QUOTE=STATUTORY]in term of peak and prime, Wade doesn't measure up either.
[B]And this is coming from a Wade fan who don't even like kobe[/B][/QUOTE]
Maybe if you stop repeating this same bullsh!t somebody would take you seriously. You are one of the biggest Kobetards on this board.
And yeah, in terms of longevity Kobe is better, but Im taking Wade 08/09 season over any of Kobe's.
[quote=LEFT4DEAD]Maybe if you stop repeating this same bullsh!t somebody would take you seriously. You are one of the biggest Kobetards on this board.
And yeah, in terms of longevity Kobe is better, but Im taking Wade 08/09 season over any of Kobe's.[/quote]
You take Wade's season over Kobe's championship years?
There is a reason why Sonic fans lost their team. Not very intelligent to at least go and support their team.
There's a reason when Sonic Gate movie came out and they tried to get former players to say something good about the organization, they declined.
Ray Allen wanted no part of it, Durant said no comment and Westbrook said he's happy at OKC.
:facepalm
Kobe's peak>>> Wade's peak
Kobe's prime>>> Wade's prime ( although it's close)
Kobe's Longevity>>>Wade's Longevity
I don't even understand why this is a debate. Even D.Wade will tell you Kobe was better than him.
I'd put Wade probably 4th, although it can be argued he's 3rd.
[QUOTE=swag2011]Kobe's peak>>> Wade's peak
Kobe's prime>>> Wade's prime ( although it's close)
Kobe's Longevity>>>Wade's Longevity
I don't even understand why this is a debate. Even D.Wade will tell you Kobe was better than him.
I'd put Wade probably 4th, although it can be argued he's 3rd.[/QUOTE]
Kobe and Wade's peak's are very comparable. Though I agree that Kobe's peak is slightly better, I don't think ">>>" is at all warranted.
Kobe's Peak
28/6/5 on 58% TS with great defense
Wade's Peak
30/5/8 on FG 57% TS with solid defense
[QUOTE=9erempiree]You take Wade's season over Kobe's championship years?
There is a reason why Sonic fans lost their team. Not very intelligent to at least go and support their team.
There's a reason when Sonic Gate movie came out and they tried to get former players to say something good about the organization, they declined.
Ray Allen wanted no part of it, Durant said no comment and Westbrook said he's happy at OKC.
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/wtf+is+that+_093ac81107dfc8fe4901cc7203659446.gif[/IMG]
Kobe by 2001 was a better payer than Wade has ever been.
2003 Kobe shits on any version of Wade.
[QUOTE=STATUTORY]I'm the biggest wade fan you will ever meet but I'm also an objective bball fan and there's no argument that wade is even in the same ballpark as Kobe[/QUOTE]
truth.
Here we go with that peak vs peak argument again.
:facepalm
[QUOTE=DatAsh]Kobe and Wade's peak's are very comparable. Though I agree that Kobe's peak is slightly better, I don't think ">>>" is at all warranted.
Kobe's Peak
28/6/5 on 58% TS with great defense
Wade's Peak
30/5/8 on FG 57% TS with solid defense[/QUOTE]
Not to mention that Wade led his team to a title, just like Kobe, was All NBA 1st team, just like Kobe, and was top 3 in the league, just like Kobe. There is [B]nothing[/B] that separates Wade from Kobe and Lebron as PLAYERS besides them both winning MVP's (where Wade was 3rd in voting right behind them).
[QUOTE=Money 23]George Gervin and Pistol Pete were Gilbert Arenas caliber players.
Amazing volume shooters / scorers, did little else, certainly played no defense and were stat padding losers (Gervin specifically)[/QUOTE]
Pistol was easily a bigger loser than Gervin, and a markedly worse player too. Pistol consistently submarined his team's offensive efficiency, and he's also one of the worst defenders in history.
Calling him a Gilbert Arenas caliber player is being incredibly generous; in his prime, Pistol was sub .500 EVERY SINGLE YEAR OF HIS CAREER aside from 1973, the only year he ever won 40+ games. Pistol was the definition of a ball hogging, cancerous loser. The craziest thing about him, is that his rookie season, he absolutely KILLED the Hawks - their record plummeted from 48 wins to 36, despite the rest team being completely intact from the previous year. There's good evidence that he was a negative impact player.
[QUOTE=che guevara]Pistol was easily a bigger loser than Gervin, and a markedly worse player too. Pistol consistently submarined his team's offensive efficiency, and he's also one of the worst defenders in history.
Calling him a Gilbert Arenas caliber player is being incredibly generous; in his prime, Pistol was sub .500 EVERY SINGLE YEAR OF HIS CAREER aside from 1973, the only year he ever won 40+ games. Pistol was the definition of a ball hogging, cancerous loser. The craziest thing about him, is that his rookie season, he absolutely KILLED the Hawks - their record plummeted from 48 wins to 36, despite the rest team being completely intact from the previous year. There's good evidence that he was a negative impact player.[/QUOTE]
his teammates on the hawks hated him because he was earning much more money than them despite still being a rookie
[QUOTE=Young X]Not to mention that Wade led his team to a title, just like Kobe, was All NBA 1st team, just like Kobe, and was top 3 in the league, just like Kobe. There is [B]nothing[/B] that separates Wade from Kobe and Lebron as PLAYERS besides them both winning MVP's (where Wade was 3rd in voting right behind them).[/QUOTE]
That's essentially the point.
I don't think there is a whole lot of distinction between all these guys, apart from Kobe's 5 championships and LeBron's 3 MVP awards.
In terms of statistical, on court peak performance and play ... Wade's best is absolutely comparable with Kobe's and even LeBron's best.
The difference is marginal at best, and can be argued either way, I suppose. Insecure Kobe kids take it too far. Saying "Kobe's 2003 shits on ANY version of Wade" ... absolutely false.
They make it sound like the difference between Kobe and Wade, is as great as the difference between MJ and Reggie Miller. It really is a close race between them in terms of peak play, and prime play.
Kobe has the longevity, the MVP award, 1 more Finals MVP and 3 more rings. Thus, he gets the nod on the pyramid.
[quote=che guevera]Pistol was easily a bigger loser than Gervin, and a markedly worse player too. Pistol consistently submarined his team's offensive efficiency, and he's also one of the worst defenders in history.
Calling him a Gilbert Arenas caliber player is being incredibly generous; in his prime, Pistol was sub .500 EVERY SINGLE YEAR OF HIS CAREER aside from 1973, the only year he ever won 40+ games. Pistol was the definition of a ball hogging, cancerous loser. The craziest thing about him, is that his rookie season, he absolutely KILLED the Hawks - their record plummeted from 48 wins to 36, despite the rest team being completely intact from the previous year. There's good evidence that he was a negative impact player.[/quote]
I know, good post with more elaboration than I had time to go into. What I meant is their games might be slightly different, but all (Arenas, Maravich, Gervin) were entertaining volume scoring LOSERS in their true essence. Who rarely impacted the game in areas more than scoring.
Don't get me wrong, Pistol had passing skills, pre-cursor flair that the mainstream didn't pick up on until Magic Johnson, but he NEVER made teammates truly better.
The point I was making went right over people's heads.
Not only is Wade's game better than both Pistol and Iceman (possibly the two coolest NBA nicknames of all-time) but Wade is a fact proven winner. Saying those two are better than Wade is BEYOND ridiculous.
I've got him ranked 4th all-time SG.
Can't put him above West because of West's longevity and his elite play at SG. Jordan, Kobe, and West were considered #1 at their position for much of their careers. Arguably all 3 had a loooong stretch of being the top SG in the NBA or landing on the All-NBA 1st Team.
I can't say the same for Wade.
[QUOTE=Money 23]I know, good post with more elaboration than I had time to go into. What I meant is their games might be slightly different, but all (Arenas, Maravich, Gervin) were entertaining volume scoring LOSERS in their true essence. Who rarely impacted the game in areas more than scoring.
Don't get me wrong, Pistol had passing skills, pre-cursor flair that the mainstream didn't pick up on until Magic Johnson, but he NEVER made teammates truly better.
The point I was making went right over people's heads.[/QUOTE]
My only grip with that is Pistol was a better passer than his scoring. Yes, I've heard he was very individualistic, much like what I've read about Wilt. I think a better comparison with Pete would have been Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis.
[QUOTE=KenneBell]I've got him ranked 4th all-time SG.
Can't put him above West because of West's longevity and his elite play at SG. Jordan, Kobe, and West were considered #1 at their position for much of their careers. Arguably all 3 had a loooong stretch of being the top SG in the NBA or landing on the All-NBA 1st Team.
I can't say the same for Wade.[/QUOTE]
Well said.
Wade sitting around #4...