wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

[QUOTE=STATUTORY]no and I don't really care about that. I just thought it was interesting that the way media and fans analyze the game can have impact on how players approach the game.

not shooting the full court heave is an instance of this new mentality I suppose but that's really minor and second order importance.[/QUOTE]
True. I read the article and it was bob mcadoo the former star and one of the current heat assistant coaches who was the guy who put pressure on dwade to aim for 50% so I don't think it is the media specifically but the coaching staff and lockerroom culture they have that emphasizes efficiency.

Honestly the heat play basketball the right way. Unselfish, efficient, and prioritize defense. All of the stars made sacrifices just to play on a winning team and everyone accepts their role. When was the last time we heard someone complain about touches the same way pau and dwight seem to do every other week.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Got all these Kobe stans mad, using their own 'logic' against them. :oldlol:

I was just pointing out the fallacy in the [B][SIZE="7"]'5 rangz' [/SIZE][/B]bullshit. Kobe was the best player on his team for 40% of his championships, he has 2 finals MVPs (and 2010 was questionable IMO). But fans of Bean never take into account that rings are weighted, they're not all worth the same when it comes to player rankings. If Lebron leads his team to another championship, he'd match Kobe in that department.

I brought up Hondo because he has top 10-20 credentials and 8 championships, 3 more than Kobe. But that's not considering Bill Russell's role. It's the same fallacious arguments you dunces use.[/QUOTE]
aaaah sheeit n*gga its dem 5 rangz!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Read my post from above:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8170843&postcount=144[/url]

And no, during the 70's (which was Hondo's best years until he dropped off) the league started to gain much more parity.

I get what your saying about athletic ability, but for the case, Hondo would probably be as athletically comparable to any player in any era (got drafted by the NFL too).[/QUOTE]

I'm just playing Devil's advocate lol. But I wasn't referring to Hondo specifically. I was addressing the "The competition was stiffer when there were less teams." thing.

[QUOTE=STATUTORY]Players are consciously modifying their game to achieve these stats[/QUOTE]

This is hardly some new phenomenon. You're acting like players haven't deliberately set out to achieve some statistical goal before.

[QUOTE=Mr. I'm So Rad]I'm just playing Devil's advocate lol. But I wasn't referring to Hondo specifically. I was addressing the "The competition was stiffer when there were less teams." thing.[/QUOTE]

Oh okay.

I'm playing Devil's advocate here too. I actually don't think the Hondo comparison is that valid but I can see why people think they are similar in terms of career.

[QUOTE=red1]True. I read the article and it was bob mcadoo the former star and one of the current heat assistant coaches who was the guy who put pressure on dwade to aim for 50% so I don't think it is the media specifically but the coaching staff and lockerroom culture they have that emphasizes efficiency.

Honestly the heat play basketball the right way. Unselfish, efficient, and prioritize defense. All of the stars made sacrifices just to play on a winning team and everyone accepts their role. When was the last time we heard someone complain about touches the same way pau and dwight seem to do every other week.[/QUOTE]
shiiit after so many hours this red1 still defending wade n bron like his momma :roll: :roll: :roll:

Lebron already costed his team 1 championship because he cares too much about his stats, how the media viewed him. So why do you guys say it doesn't matter? he's already LOST you 1 ring! :roll:

When your players are so self-conscious.. that's why they're so likely to fail when the pressure is on. that's why lebron fails so much in the clutch, and why he always passes instead of shooting when his team is down, and shoots only when his team is up.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]shiiit after so many hours this red1 still defending wade n bron like his momma :roll: :roll: :roll:

Lebron already costed his team 1 championship because he cares too much about his stats, how the media viewed him. So why do you guys say it doesn't matter? he's already LOST you 1 ring! :roll:

When your players are so self-conscious.. that's why they're so likely to fail when the pressure is on. that's why lebron fails so much in the clutch, and why he always passes instead of shooting when his team is down, and shoots only when his team is up.[/QUOTE]
:no: We are not friends stop following me around and stop trying to get my attention.

Kobe isn't a good example because he takes terrible shots.

FG% is very overrated, though, especially if you set other players up to fail because you'd rather them miss it than you.

The funny thing is, doing that 2 or 3 times a game would be a huge difference in your percentage and nobody would notice. In fact, the guy that you gave the ball to might actually feel you are empowering him by giving him a chance to shine.

-Smak

[QUOTE=red1]:no: We are not friends stop following me around and stop trying to get my attention.[/QUOTE]
except that you're in every single lebron thread defending him like a mad little kid :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Was he ever considered the best player in the world? Even for one season?
How many times was he top 5 in MVP voting?
Did he ever lead the league in scoring in the regular season or playoffs?

Kobe was either the best player or arguably the best player in 2006-2010 and Top 5 in MVP voting 10 times. Hondo on Kobe's level? Is that what you're saying? Just another horrible opinion by a Kobe hater.[/QUOTE]

Hondo was actually top 5 in MVP voting twice.

What does 2006-2010 have to do with 2000-2002? I think thats what his point was.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]except that you're in every single lebron thread defending him like a mad little kid :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
You are the one who posts about nothing but lbj. Look at your avatar you clown, lbj is in every thought that your crosses your mind

[QUOTE=guy]Hondo was actually top 5 in MVP voting twice.

What does 2006-2010 have to do with 2000-2002? I think thats what his point was.[/QUOTE]
Dondadda, a poster that is in your kind of group was trying to say Hondo was on Kobe's level all time.

[QUOTE=Doranku]How many playoff series did Jordan win before Pippen came along?[/QUOTE]

That 11/5 in 27 MPG that Pippen provided in that first round was huge :oldlol:

[QUOTE=ripthekik]except that you're in every single lebron thread defending him like a mad little kid :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]

You are by far, the biggest LeBron dick rider on this forum.

By far. Everyone can attest to that.

You even have pauk beat. And that's impossible.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Dondadda, a poster that is in your kind of group was trying to say Hondo was on Kobe's level all time.[/QUOTE]

No, I think he was trying to say just using there resume without context to prop up one player over another is stupid.

[QUOTE=red1]You are the one who posts about nothing but lbj. Look at your avatar you clown, lbj is in every thought that your crosses your mind[/QUOTE]
hmm.. lookat the amount of posts in this thread that you talk about lebron vs me..
seems like you got 30 while i got what.. 3?
all over the forums defending him like he saved your cat off a tree when you were a kid :oldlol:

[QUOTE=guy]That 11/5 in 27 MPG that Pippen provided in that first round was huge :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Well, when he did start he became more vital and played great in the Final game vs Cleveland.

But yeah, Oakley was more important than Pippen in Jordan's first playoff win... and incase anybody didn't know what Jordan did to get out of the first round for the first time:

45.2ppg 5.4 rpg 4.8apg 2.8apg 1.6bog 55.9%fg 91.8%ft (5 games)

[QUOTE=ripthekik]hmm.. lookat the amount of posts in this thread that you talk about lebron vs me..
seems like you got 30 while i got what.. 3?
all over the forums defending him like he saved your cat off a tree when you were a kid :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Hop off lebron's nuts you corny f*gg*t. Stop worshipping the guy like he is more than just a pro athlete.

[QUOTE=ripthekik][B]all over the forums defending[/B][/QUOTE]

There are a lot of different posters who defend a certain player or team. Not a big deal if it's valid and reasonable, really.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]he has 2 finals MVPs (and 2010 was questionable IMO).[/QUOTE]

Retard alert.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Got all these Kobe stans mad, using their own 'logic' against them. :oldlol:

I was just pointing out the fallacy in the '5 rangz' bullshit. Kobe was the best player on his team for 40% of his championships, he has 2 finals MVPs (and 2010 was questionable IMO). But fans of Bean never take into account that rings are weighted, they're not all worth the same when it comes to player rankings. If Lebron leads his team to another championship, he'd match Kobe in that department.

I brought up Hondo because he has top 10-20 credentials and 8 championships, 3 more than Kobe. But that's not considering Bill Russell's role. It's the same fallacious arguments you dunces use.[/QUOTE]
There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]There are a lot of different posters who defend a certain player or not. Not a big deal if it's valid and reasonable, really.[/QUOTE]
Ripthekik is so delusional that he thinks it is more embarrasing to rationally defend a player than it is to be absolutely obsessed with them to the point that he doesnt think or post about anything else. Look at his avatar and then try to take him serious after

[QUOTE=red1]Hop off lebron's nuts you corny f*gg*t. Stop worshipping the guy like he is more than just a pro athlete.[/QUOTE]
exact thing you should tell yourself, and quit acting like a 13 year old trying to look like a bad ass.. you weak sauce :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Money 23]There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.[/QUOTE]

then lebron has 1/2 a ring, considering he had the top 2 SG and top 5 PF, while having the 2 best players in the east injured, hows that logic taste?

[QUOTE=ripthekik]exact thing you should tell yourself, and [B]quit acting like a 13 year old trying to look like a bad ass.. you weak sauce [/B]:oldlol:

then lebron has 1/2 a ring, considering he had the top 2 SG and top 5 PF, while having the 2 best players in the east injured, hows that logic taste?[/QUOTE]
:wtf:

[QUOTE=Mr. NBA]Man ill take Lebron pull up jumper over a defender than UD 20 foot open jumper. Ill take a Kobe fadeaway over a defender than an open 3 from Blake. Some things you give and take. Casual fans dont care about stats. They see W or L. The hardcore fans are the ones that nitpick that stuff which causes debates all over threads. If Kobe bricks a gamewinner over a defender we say bad shot, Lebron would have found a better shot. If Lebron passes a game winner opportunity, we say Kobe will never pass that up. If Kobe hits a gamewinner we go all hail clutchbe. If Lebron hits a gamewinner we say lucky shot.[/QUOTE]
That pretty much summarizes the Kobe trolls and the Lebrontards.

[QUOTE=Money 23]There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.[/QUOTE]:facepalm Looks like you are just joking but still.

[QUOTE=red1]Ripthekik is so delusional that he thinks it is more embarrasing to rationally defend a player than it is to be absolutely obsessed with them to the point that he doesnt think or post about anything else. Look at his avatar and then try to take him serious after[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've also thought it's weird that many posters on ISH are passive-aggressive towards each other on a near obsessive level. Same way they obsess a player too.

Just ignore list people like this. It's really not worth the time.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]
then lebron has 1/2 a ring, considering he had the top 2 SG and top 5 PF, while having the 2 best players in the east injured, hows that logic taste?[/QUOTE]
Nah LeBron gets a full ring. Don't get me wrong, he was a ****** for what he did in 2010 playoffs, joining a fellow elite superstar in a separate franchise, and no showing in an NBA Finals.

But he more than earned his ring last season. Regardless of injury (it's apart of the sport) ... if that's the case Kobe's 2009 doesn't count. KG was out, Celtics were defending champs, were better than the Lakers ... especially in 2009 with an improved Rondo before KG's injury. 2010 doesn't count either, Perk's injury before game 7.

See?

LeBron dominated last playoffs, with sporadic brilliance from Wade (due to injury) and Bosh who missed the vast majority of the playoffs. LeBron's straight punch in the mouth to the Celtics in response to KG and Pierce's bullying IN Boston was more impressive of a performance than anything Kobe has ever done in the playoffs.

Entire rep on the line, team facing elimination, back against the wall, nation wanting him to fail and he DEMOLISHED them by himself. No help.

We're not taking away rings from Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Magic, Kareem due to stacked and talented rosters. We're just weighing the rings differently given an individual player's worth to a team.

You're the man = FULL RING value
You're the beta / sidekick = 1/2 a ring value

That way we don't get knuckle heads claiming Horry > LeBron, or Pippen > LeBron / Wade

[QUOTE=Bandito]:facepalm Looks like you are just joking but still.[/QUOTE]
Kind of but not really ... read above.

Ripthekik, it makes sense. Your statements don't. Take a time out kid, clear your head, and stop wearing the LeBron hate goggles. It makes you as crazy as Knoe Itawl.

I gave Bron much deserved crap in 2010 and 2011. It was deserved. In 2012? Hell no, he proved me wrong. He hit rock bottom and turned it around, and looked in the mirror and improved himself.

Why hasn't he won your respect yet? You come across as more obsessed with Bron than even his craziest fans (pauk) ... you refuse to talk about anything else.

It's frightening.

[QUOTE=Money 23]Nah LeBron gets a full ring. Don't get me wrong, he was a ****** for what he did in 2010 playoffs, joining a fellow elite superstar in a separate franchise, and no showing in an NBA Finals.

But he more than earned his ring last season. Regardless of injury (it's apart of the sport) ... if that's the case Kobe's 2009 doesn't count. KG was out, Celtics were defending champs, were better than the Lakers ... especially in 2009 with an improved Rondo before KG's injury. 2010 doesn't count either, Perk's injury before game 7.

See?

LeBron dominated last playoffs, with sporadic brilliance from Wade (due to injury) and Bosh who missed the vast majority of the playoffs. LeBron's straight punch in the mouth to the Celtics in response to KG and Pierce's bullying IN Boston was more impressive of a performance than anything Kobe has ever done in the playoffs.

Entire rep on the line, team facing elimination, back against the wall, nation wanting him to fail and he DEMOLISHED them by himself. No help.

We're not taking away rings from Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Magic, Kareem due to stacked and talented rosters. We're just weighing the rings differently given an individual player's worth to a team.

You're the man = FULL RING value
You're the beta / sidekick = 1/2 a ring value

That way we don't get knuckle heads claiming Horry > LeBron, or Pippen > LeBron / Wade


Kind of but not really ... read above.

Ripthekik, it makes sense. Your statements don't. Take a time out kid, clear your head, and stop wearing the LeBron hate goggles. It makes you as crazy as Knoe Itawl.

I gave Bron much deserved crap in 2010 and 2011. It was deserved. In 2012? Hell no, he proved me wrong. He hit rock bottom and turned it around, and looked in the mirror and improved himself.

Why hasn't he won your respect yet? You come across as more obsessed with Bron than even his craziest fans (pauk) ... you refuse to talk about anything else.

It's frightening.[/QUOTE]
Nope, because you all continue to underestimate Wade and Bosh's values. Just because Wade didn't put up 06 numbers every game, doesn't mean he's become just another #2 role player. He's not, he can turn it up to 06 level in a moment's notice, and that's the benefit Lebron gets. Lebron has the benefit of being able to disappear for a quarter because Wade will take over - and people will even give Bron the benefit of the doubt such as he's being a good teammate. If he was by himself? that's when the choke comes in. Lebron has the help of 2 franchise numbers, and that's something the numbers don't show.

Lebron has yet to prove he can lead his own team to a ring without so much help, so no, he does not have my respect, and he did not win a full ring in your terms. Kobe did it with just Pau (if you think Bynum was worth anything, then you're probably a dumbass and argument ends here), Dirk did it almost by himself, Wade 06 did it by himself.

Bron is not on the level of those guys above.

[QUOTE=Money 23]There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

Go watch some Space Jam

[QUOTE=Money 23]There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.[/QUOTE]
good stuff

I'm the least bit a Kobe fan but he is shooting 47% this year, one of his best years ever in terms of efficiency.

Just sayin.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]:facepalm

Go watch some Space Jam[/QUOTE]
I would say go watch *insert Kobe Bryant movie* in an effort for a witty comeback, but then I realize he never crossed the threshold of being popular enough an icon to have been on the silver screen

So instead I say go listen to some atrocious Kobe rap with Tyra Banks

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl_WkTiH6-Q[/url]

I know I saw Kobe in the movie "Be Cool", but I think that was just a cameo.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]Nope, because you all continue to underestimate Wade and Bosh's values.[/QUOTE]

What is Bosh's main value as a franchise player ?

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I know I saw Kobe in the movie "Be Cool", but I think that was just a cameo.[/QUOTE]
Always trying to drop facts, not in regards to the actual conversation.

And no, he was on an episode of Moesha and an episode of a 90's saturday morning tv show called "Hang Time" about HS kids playing for their team.

No movies, no "Be Cool" with John Travolta. Stop always trying to school people, dude.

Especially when your facts are wrong.

[QUOTE=Money 23]Always trying to drop facts, not in regards to the actual conversation.

And no, he was on an episode of Moesha and an episode of a 90's saturday morning tv show called "Hang Time" about HS kids playing for their team.

No movies, no "Be Cool" with John Travolta. Stop always trying to school people, dude.

Especially when your facts are wrong.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377471/trivia[/url]

[QUOTE]The scenes at the NBA game with John Travolta and Uma Thurman were filmed at the Staples Center during a game between the [B]Lakers and the Sacramento Kings on 26 February 2004[/B]. Although the film depicts the Lakers winning the game, they lost 101-103. [/QUOTE]

I remembered that scene in particular because I believe Travolta also said something in regards to Karl Malone and Shaq, but they didn't have any lines. Kobe's "cameo" was him coming off the bench ready to check into the game.

I wasn't trying to school you, man, I was just saying I remembered that scene because of the movie reference.

You can watch the whole movie if you want:

[url]http://www.tubeplus.me/player/60438/Be_Cool/[/url]

I don't know what time that scene comes at since I don't own the movie.

And to regards to your actual conversation, Deuce always puts that comeback line off "watch Space Jam". Yeah, it's stupid when it first came out and still stupid when you say it for the 100/1000th time.

If it's about LeBron's "value" in that playoff run that ripthekik is talking about the value of Wade and Bosh.... what really is there to say than LeBron just particular took over and Wade and Bosh were banged up and didn't have the bursts? I've see kblaze and yourself shater his every point and I would have said the same.

I just skimmed through the movie and it's @ the 1 hour 2 minute mark. He's in 4 scenes:

-Walking to the scorers table.
-Taking a jump shot.
-Contesting a shot on the other end.
-Making a layup.

I guess the Malone and Shaq scene didn't happen or it was in another movie.

[QUOTE=STATUTORY][URL="http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/"]http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/[/URL]

Can you imagine an AI or Kobe saying that in the early 2000s before the Hollingerfication of the sport?

This is why we need to look at these .500% fg season stats with suspicion. Players are consciously modifying their game to achieve these stats, perhaps to the detriment of the team, because that's the purvey by which players are judged now.

it highlights a difference in perspective between the old school and new school players. Back in the early 2000s in the most offensively depressed era in all of NBA, it was just about being able to put up points and that's the lingering sentiment of a player like Kobe which is almost quaint in the efficiency obsessed era of today.

If kobe entered the league in 2006 I have no doubt he would be a .500+ scorer as well because his mentality would be completely different.[/QUOTE]

Wow. There are a lot of idiots on this board but this has to be one of the stupidest posts I've read.

How exactly can shooting efficiency hurt your chances of winning a basketball game?
Isn't the goal of basketball to score more points than your opponent, and scoring more points per possession one of the surest ways to achieve that goal?