Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

[QUOTE=bizil]I have no agenda against Pip at all. I give Pip mad props UNTIL i see people saying Pip is a top 20-25 player of all time. Or that Pip peak value wise Pip was a top 3 SF. At that point I gotta state my opinion.

As far as Hondo and how many points he scored, I know one thing. And that's Hondo had more ALPHA DOG gene than Pip had. No agenda, just facts![/QUOTE]
Math are facts bro. Try applying it. Theres no way Hondo is avg 29 ppg in 90s NBA. He wouldn't be playing 45 min, and he would get as many attempts.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Math are facts bro. Try applying it. Theres no way Hondo is avg 29 ppg in 90s NBA. He wouldn't be playing 45 min, and he would get as many attempts.[/QUOTE]


Even if you take the eras for what they were, Hondo was MORE FEARED in his era than Pip was in his scoring wise. I'm willing to bet cash on that and I'm not a gambling man. That's a fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. And at the same time, if Hondo grew up in the era Pip played in he would enjoy the advantages that the future offers. And let's face it, perimeter players like Big O, Hondo, Barry, and Baylor were ahead of their time in what they brought to the table anyway. Even moreso than many guys today, in the 2000s, 90s or 80s. The things they were showing in the 60's and 70's were big time precursors for things a lot later down the line for midsized players.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Whats garbage about his opinion? He feels having Pippen on his team would give him the best chance of winning. He could be sour grapes since Pippen and the Bulls denied him of.winning two championships. And what does his view on Tim Duncan have to do with anything?[/QUOTE]

When you talked about Malone wanting Pippen on his team, I thought you had watched the interview he had on the Dan Patrick Show, where he stated about he was the best PF of all-time... along with the Pippen comment.

The Duncan comment stems from the fact, that if you feel is opinion is a legit about Pippen, it doesn't feel like he's really telling the truth about his counterparts at the PF position, where he tries to dodge an one on one comparison with Duncan (calling him a center)... so it doesn't feel like he was being all that truthful about Pippen, making his opinion garbage or invalid for a better word, I guess.


I agree with your Hondo assessment.

[QUOTE=Whoah10115] He literally was the 1st option for less than 2 full years. No one has any basis to claim he wasn't a capable or winning 1st option, based on that. Other than Hakeem and MAYBE David Robinson, there wasn't a better player in that two year span. Not Charles, not Karl, not Patrick, not Shaq.[/QUOTE]

Maybe David Robinson? Robinson was putting up 30/11/5 on 51% while also playing better defense than Pippen. David Robinson was a beast in that two year span.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]Maybe David Robinson? Robinson was putting up 30/11/5 on 51% while also playing better defense than Pippen. David Robinson was a beast in that two year span.[/QUOTE]
Robinson was a beast. But Id definately argue their contributions to their teams. The Bulls had to run their offense in order to get quality shots. Pippen ran their offense. I feel that more than makes up the difference in scoring

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Robinson was a beast. But Id definately argue their contributions to their teams. The Bulls had to run their offense in order to get quality shots. Pippen ran their offense. I feel that more than makes up the difference in scoring[/QUOTE]

That depends. You're probably right in saying that removing Pippen would hurt Chicago more than removing Robinson would from San Antonio, but that's not a good gauge of who's actually more valuable; it's more-so a gauge of who's more valuable to their team, which isn't quite as meaningful in my opinion. The Bulls would struggle similarly to how the Cavs struggled without Lebron.

Replacing Pippen with a serviceable playmaker would hurt the Bulls less than replacing the Spurs with a serviceable center. Robinson and Shaq were better than Pippen over that stretch.

Robinson was putting 30/11/5 on 50% while playing some of the best defense the league has ever seen(for any position).

Shaq was putting up 30/12/2 on 60%.

Pippen was a better defender than Shaq, and right up there behind Robinson, but those guys had a huge edge offensively and on the boards than Pippen's game just doesn't make up for.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]That depends. You're probably right in saying that removing Pippen would hurt Chicago more than removing Robinson would from San Antonio, but that's not a good gauge of who's actually more valuable; it's more-so a gauge of who's more valuable to their team, which isn't quite as meaningful in my opinion. [/QUOTE]

I don't understand the distinction you are making, and how value to team is different than value. Could you please elaborate?

[QUOTE=bizil]Even if you take the eras for what they were, Hondo was MORE FEARED in his era than Pip was in his scoring wise. I'm willing to bet cash on that and I'm not a gambling man. That's a fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. And at the same time, if Hondo grew up in the era Pip played in he would enjoy the advantages that the future offers. And let's face it, perimeter players like Big O, Hondo, Barry, and Baylor were ahead of their time in what they brought to the table anyway. Even moreso than many guys today, in the 2000s, 90s or 80s. The things they were showing in the 60's and 70's were big time precursors for things a lot later down the line for midsized players.[/QUOTE]
Id have to disagree Biz. Hondo played half of his career during the ABA. And the ABA took a fair amount of great players. Erving? Hawkins? Gilmore? Barry? Issel? Haywood? All great players. And even with those players playing in another league, the highest Havlicek ever got in MVP voting was fourth. Now where would Pippen had ranked if half of the top 15 players played in another league?

Some of u Pip fans are so sensitive! Many of us NEVER said Pip couldn't be the best player on a title team. But at the same time Pip simply wasn't as dominant taking a game by the throat scoring the rock as many other legendary SF's or swingmen. If you look at the most people's top 10-15 GOAT SF's, Pip is the only one NOT LEGENDARY for dominant scoring:

Bird
Bron
Hondo
Dr. J
Barry
Baylor
Pippen
Nique
Pierce
English
Dantley
King
Melo (soon to be on the list somewhere)
Durant (soon to be on the list somewhere)

There are FACTS not opinions. Pip CAN lead a team to an NBA title, but I feel it would have to be a team like the early 2000s Pistons or the late 90's-2000s Blazer teams that an out of prime Pip was on. Pippen's versatility while being a very good scorer could get the job done. It's just that in most cases give me a Durant or Bernard King over a Pippen. It's like saying Sidney Moncrief is a better player than George Gervin because Moncrief was a better all around player. Which ain't true and MOST people know Gervin was a better player than Moncrief because Iceman was MORE DOMINANT! At one time, Iceman was regarded as the 2nd GOAT SG behind West. And that's over many SG's who were better "all around players".

[QUOTE=Rysio]very underrated. some can argue he was the most important player during 6 championship runs but he will never get the credit.[/QUOTE]
This is true..

Most Important for The Bulls Championship (In order)

1. Pippen
2. PJackson
3. Jordan

Jordan was the best player in those championship but he's not the most important, Pippen and coach Phil were more important.. Jordan cant win without those guys.. He always relied on coach Phil and the triangle offense to excel.. Without those, people would remember him as a Dominique type of player.. Jordan was a system player, product of the triangle offense use by PJackson and company.. This is one of the few things that separate Mike from Kobe.. Unlike Jordan Kobe was not a system player and doesnt rely on one system.. Actually Kobe creates the system for his team to win..

Jordan = system product (Triangle Offense)
Kobe = system creator (Kobe System)

I still wonder why some people here dont consider Kobe as a GOAT candidate when theres already a lot of evidence that will proves Kobe at worst is a top 5 player of all time.. Some people here will rather act like an idiot than accept those facts.. In short Kobe haters..

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Id have to disagree Biz. Hondo played half of his career during the ABA. And the ABA took a fair amount of great players. Erving? Hawkins? Gilmore? Barry? Issel? Haywood? All great players. And even with those players playing in another league, the highest Havlicek ever got in MVP voting was fourth. Now where would Pippen had ranked if half of the top 15 players played in another league?[/QUOTE]

MVP votes can be tricky at times. Shaq and Kobe ONLY have 1 MVP. Steve Nash has 2. Is Nash a better player than Shaq or Kobe, HELL NO! MVP votes, while a great honor, is an opinion. And u could ask most NBA observers and they would tell u Hondo was more feared scoring wise in his era than Pippen was in his. Hell Bron ALREADY has more career points than Pippen! LOL

[QUOTE=DatAsh]That depends. You're probably right in saying that removing Pippen would hurt Chicago more than removing Robinson would from San Antonio, but that's not a good gauge of who's actually more valuable; it's more-so a gauge of who's more valuable to their team, which isn't quite as meaningful in my opinion. The Bulls would struggle similarly to how the Cavs struggled without Lebron.

Replacing Pippen with a serviceable playmaker would hurt the Bulls less than replacing the Spurs with a serviceable center. Robinson and Shaq were better than Pippen over that stretch.

Robinson was putting 30/11/5 on 50% while playing some of the best defense the league has ever seen(for any position).

Shaq was putting up 30/12/2 on 60%.

Pippen was a better defender than Shaq, and right up there behind Robinson, but those guys had a huge edge offensively and on the boards than Pippen's game just doesn't make up for.[/QUOTE]
They were centers whose job was to score, rebound, and defend the paint. Pippens job was score, rebound help defend the paint, run the offense, full court press, trap. He had far more responsibilities than they did. And lets not forget Pippen did put up 22/9/6 on 49% shooting as a SF. Youre making it sound as if he only avg 4-5 boards.

[QUOTE=KOBE143]This is true..

Most Important for The Bulls Championship (In order)

1. Pippen
2. PJackson
3. Jordan

Jordan was the best player in those championship but he's not the most important, Pippen and coach Phil were more important.. Jordan cant win without those guys.. He always relied on coach Phil and the triangle offense to excel.. Without those, people would remember him as a Dominique type of player.. Jordan was a system player, product of the triangle offense use by PJackson and company.. This is one of the few things that separate Mike from Kobe.. Unlike Jordan Kobe was not a system player and doesnt rely on one system.. Actually Kobe creates the system for his team to win..

Jordan = system product (Triangle Offense)
Kobe = system creator (Kobe System)

I still wonder why some people here dont consider Kobe as a GOAT candidate when theres already a lot of evidence that will proves Kobe at worst is a top 5 player of all time.. Some people here will rather act like an idiot than accept those facts.. In short Kobe haters..[/QUOTE]
Please dont come in here with this. Jordans role with the Bulls was huge. And most important. I only feel it can be ARGUED that Pippens role was on Jordans level.

[QUOTE=bizil]MVP votes can be tricky at times. Shaq and Kobe ONLY have 1 MVP. Steve Nash has 2. Is Nash a better player than Shaq or Kobe, HELL NO! MVP votes, while a great honor, is an opinion. And u could ask most NBA observers and they would tell u Hondo was more feared scoring wise in his era than Pippen was in his. Hell Bron ALREADY has more career points than Pippen! LOL[/QUOTE]
Like I stated. At face value one could say Hondo was more feared. But facts are facts. Allow Pippen to play 45 min and give him six extra shot attempts per game and hed be knocking on the 30 ppg door too.


I see your point about MVPs. But again he couldnt win an MVP with a good portion of the top players playing in the ABA.

[QUOTE=KOBE143]This is true..

Most Important for The Bulls Championship (In order)

1. Pippen
2. PJackson
3. Jordan

Jordan was the best player in those championship but he's not the most important, Pippen and coach Phil were more important.. Jordan cant win without those guys.. He always relied on coach Phil and the triangle offense to excel.. Without those, people would remember him as a Dominique type of player.. Jordan was a system player, product of the triangle offense use by PJackson and company.. This is one of the few things that separate Mike from Kobe.. Unlike Jordan Kobe was not a system player and doesnt rely on one system.. Actually Kobe creates the system for his team to win..

Jordan = system product (Triangle Offense)
Kobe = system creator (Kobe System)

I still wonder why some people here dont consider Kobe as a GOAT candidate when theres already a lot of evidence that will proves Kobe at worst is a top 5 player of all time.. Some people here will rather act like an idiot than accept those facts.. In short Kobe haters..[/QUOTE]

U can't just say MJ is a SYSTEM PLAYER! MJ may play BETTER within a system than Kobe, but MJ is the GOAT! NO GOAT is merely a system player. That means u are limited and can only thrive in certain situations individually. Jordan did more creating than Kobe merely by the fact Kobe had Shaq. MJ had to do more for his teams to win than Kobe did in his run with Shaq.

MJ and Dominique are two totally different players. The only thing they have in common is that they are two freak athlete scoring machines. But MJ was also as complete a guard in the all around sense who has ever lived. MJ also had arguably the most complete scoring skillset of all time. I love Nique and he's my favorite player of all time. But before Pip came of age, MJ was averaging 30 pts, 8boards, and 8 assists along with shutdown D on PG, SG, and SF. So MJ was doing Pip duties ALONG with dominating scoring. MJ made life MORE EASIER for Pip than the other way around. Even though Pip made life EASIER for MJ as well. And MJ is the main reason the Bulls dominated. Phil and Scottie were important, but MJ was the MAN!


I frankly think Kobe at his peak is the 2nd best player of all time at least perimeter wise. And GOAT wise, u could say Kobe is in the top five, even though I would go MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, and Magic. So right now I have Kobe number six GOAT wise with a great case to be in the top five. and when it's all said and done, who knows where Kobe will rank.

'97 bulls, you're my guy ... but this Pippen stuff with you is ridiculous. Do you see what your more articulated thoughts, even when you're dead wrong encourage?

[QUOTE=KOBE143]This is true..

Most Important for The Bulls Championship (In order)

1. Pippen
2. PJackson
3. Jordan

Jordan was the best player in those championship but he's not the most important, Pippen and coach Phil were more important.. Jordan cant win without those guys.. He always relied on coach Phil and the triangle offense to excel.. Without those, people would remember him as a Dominique type of player.. Jordan was a system player, product of the triangle offense use by PJackson and company.. This is one of the few things that separate Mike from Kobe.. Unlike Jordan Kobe was not a system player and doesnt rely on one system.. Actually Kobe creates the system for his team to win..

Jordan = system product (Triangle Offense)
Kobe = system creator (Kobe System)

I still wonder why some people here dont consider Kobe as a GOAT candidate when theres already a lot of evidence that will proves Kobe at worst is a top 5 player of all time.. Some people here will rather act like an idiot than accept those facts.. In short Kobe haters..[/QUOTE]
:biggums:

[QUOTE=bizil]U can't just say MJ is a SYSTEM PLAYER! MJ may play BETTER within a system than Kobe, but MJ is the GOAT! NO GOAT is merely a system player. That means u are limited and can only thrive in certain situations individually. Jordan did more creating than Kobe merely by the fact Kobe had Shaq. MJ had to do more for his teams to win than Kobe did in his run with Shaq.

MJ and Dominique are two totally different players. The only thing they have in common is that they are two freak athlete scoring machines. But MJ was also as complete a guard in the all around sense who has ever lived. MJ also had arguably the most complete scoring skillset of all time. I love Nique and he's my favorite player of all time. But before Pip came of age, MJ was averaging 30 pts, 8boards, and 8 assists along with shutdown D on PG, SG, and SF. So MJ was doing Pip duties ALONG with dominating scoring. MJ made life MORE EASIER for Pip than the other way around. Even though Pip made life EASIER for MJ as well. And MJ is the main reason the Bulls dominated. Phil and Scottie were important, but MJ was the MAN!


I frankly think [B]Kobe at his peak is the 2nd best player of all time[/B] at least perimeter wise. And GOAT wise, u could say Kobe is in the top five, even though I would go MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, and Magic. [B]So right now I have Kobe number six GOAT wise with a great case to be in the top five. and when it's all said and done, who knows where Kobe will rank.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
You seems like a knowledgeable and respectable poster.. I agree with some of your post.. I respect your opinion.. :cheers:

[QUOTE=bizil]Some of u Pip fans are so sensitive! Many of us NEVER said Pip couldn't be the best player on a title team. But at the same time Pip simply wasn't as dominant taking a game by the throat scoring the rock as many other legendary SF's or swingmen. If you look at the most people's top 10-15 GOAT SF's, Pip is the only one NOT LEGENDARY for dominant scoring:

Bird
Bron
Hondo
Dr. J
Barry
Baylor
Pippen
Nique
Pierce
English
Dantley
King
Melo (soon to be on the list somewhere)
Durant (soon to be on the list somewhere)

There are FACTS not opinions. Pip CAN lead a team to an NBA title, but I feel it would have to be a team like the early 2000s Pistons or the late 90's-2000s Blazer teams that an out of prime Pip was on. Pippen's versatility while being a very good scorer could get the job done. [B] It's just that in most cases give me a Durant or Bernard King over a Pippen. It's like saying Sidney Moncrief is a better player than George Gervin because Moncrief was a better all around player. Which ain't true and MOST people know Gervin was a better player than Moncrief because Iceman was MORE DOMINANT![/B] At one time, Iceman was regarded as the 2nd GOAT SG behind West. And that's over many SG's who were better "all around players".[/QUOTE]

This is why I don't like the effect media, and ESPN, have had on our views of sports.

Scoring can be dominant, but defense can not be. That's how I interpreted the bolded statement.

Consider this (and note: I am NOT saying Durant is better Pip, NOR am I saying Pip is better than Durant):

Durant's ppg in his best season (so far) is roughly 30-31ppg.
Pippen's best: around 25ppg (difference of 5-6ppg)

Now consider that Pippen is arguably the second best defender OF ALL TIME, while Durant is not even the second best defender on his team,... and you mean to tell me that Pippen's exemplary can't make up a 5-6ppg difference in terms of dominance? Give me a break.

Second note: IF my interpretation was incorrect, then I apologize for assuming I knew what you meant.

[QUOTE=KOBE143]Without those, people would remember him as a Dominique type of player.[/QUOTE]

If he hadn't won, he would have been remembered in much the same way that we remember Wilt Chamberlain.

But because he won, he's on par with both Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell at the same time. He's the best individual player of all time and the most indispensable teammate of all time.

In the late eighties, people wondered when the transition would occur.

Individually, he was already acknowledged as a legend in the making at that point, and with a real team by his side, he conquered both sides of the equation and became the GOAT.

He had a mixture of individual accolades, efficiency, productivity and team success that put him on a plane that only 4 or 5 other players can claim.

And of those 4 or 5, he's at the top.

Jordan has no rings without Pippen. Pippen was the best SF in his day.

Overrated to an extent, especially when people claim he's better than Jordan

[QUOTE=The Iron Fist]Jordan has no rings without Pippen. [/QUOTE]

No one ever won alone. It's a team sport.

[QUOTE=bizil]Some of u Pip fans are so sensitive! Many of us NEVER said Pip couldn't be the best player on a title team. But at the same time Pip simply wasn't as dominant taking a game by the throat scoring the rock as many other legendary SF's or swingmen. If you look at the most people's top 10-15 GOAT SF's, Pip is the only one NOT LEGENDARY for dominant scoring:

Bird
Bron
Hondo
Dr. J
Barry
Baylor
Pippen
Nique
Pierce
English
Dantley
King
Melo (soon to be on the list somewhere)
Durant (soon to be on the list somewhere)

There are FACTS not opinions. Pip CAN lead a team to an NBA title, but I feel it would have to be a team like the early 2000s Pistons or the late 90's-2000s Blazer teams that an out of prime Pip was on. Pippen's versatility while being a very good scorer could get the job done. It's just that in most cases give me a Durant or Bernard King over a Pippen. It's like saying Sidney Moncrief is a better player than George Gervin because Moncrief was a better all around player. Which ain't true and MOST people know Gervin was a better player than Moncrief because Iceman was MORE DOMINANT! At one time, Iceman was regarded as the 2nd GOAT SG behind West. And that's over many SG's who were better "all around players".[/QUOTE]

The problem with these arguments is that we don't really know how good Pippen could have been scoring wise because he was never in a system that was geared to his strengths as a scorer. He's probably one of the five greatest open court players ever, but the triangle offense was a half court offense. It's why I've said that if put him on those Blazer teams with Drexler he would have scored a lot more and his assist would have been much higher as really, he's a natural PG like whoah said.

Still though what he did in 94 and 95 is impressive because he was good enough to be an efficient first option in an offense that wasn't geared to his game as a scorer at all. That is why his scoring didn't really go up very high in 94 and 95 even though Jordan was gone. It was more the fact that he played in the triangle offense then anything else as to why he didn't score more points. The difference between him and those list of sf's is they played in offensive systems that were geared to their strengths as scorers and getting them in their sweet spots.

He had an unselfish nature though and was a natural PG...the only real natural PG of that size since Magic. If he was given to keys to dominant the ball as a true PG his great play making and natural inclination to get others involved would have made his assist sky rocket passed what they were in his his career in the triangle offense.

Underrated by Jordan stans.
Overrated by Jordan haters.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]That depends. You're probably right in saying that removing Pippen would hurt Chicago more than removing Robinson would from San Antonio, but that's not a good gauge of who's actually more valuable; it's more-so a gauge of who's more valuable to their team, which isn't quite as meaningful in my opinion. The Bulls would struggle similarly to how the Cavs struggled without Lebron.[/QUOTE]

Huh? I agree with what you're saying about value but removing Robinson definitely would've hurt the Spurs more then removing Pippen. He was literally the Minnesota KG of that era. The Robinson pre-Duncan Spurs were not the deep well disciplined team they were after Duncan got there.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]The problem with these arguments is that we don't really know how good Pippen could have been scoring wise because he was never in a system that was geared to his strengths as a scorer. He's probably one of the five greatest open court players ever, but the triangle offense was a half court offense. It's why I've said that if put him on those Blazer teams with Drexler he would have scored a lot more and his assist would have been much higher as really, he's a natural PG like whoah said.

He had an unselfish nature though and was a natural PG...the only real natural PG of that size since Magic. If he was given to keys to dominant the ball as a true PG his great play making and natural inclination to get others involved would have made his assist sky rocket passed what they were in his his career in the triangle offense.[/QUOTE]

You don't really need to see players in a certain system to assess how great of a scorer or passer they were. There stats might be different, but its not hard to assess.

Pippen's PG abilities are so grossly overrated around here. People make it seem like he would be Chris Paul or Steve Nash or something along those lines.

[QUOTE=hitmanyr2k]Eh, the[B] Bulls aren't even in the Finals without Pippen's play[/B]. With the Bulls down 0-2 in the ECF and the Knicks looking for the knockout punch in Game 3 Jordan didn't exactly have a stellar shooting game but his team picked it up...Pippen in particular. Same goes for the closeout Game 6 against the Knicks where Jordan couldn't hit the broad side of a barn while Pippen was hitting the daggers down the stretch to send the Knicks home. That's why you have two stars on the team. One to pick up the slack when the other is struggling.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="4"]Facts about 1993 ECF btw Knicks vs Bulls:[/SIZE]

[U]Fact # 1[/U]: [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]severely sprain right wrist (shooting hand) of GOAT[/COLOR] had [U][I]54 pts[/I][/U] in leveling the series 2-2.[/B]

[U]Fact # 2:[/U] [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]still sprain right wrist (shooting hand) of GOAT[/COLOR] had [I][U]30 pts triple double (29 pts to be exact)[/U][/I], his career's most imp triple double that gave bulls 3-2 lead ON THE ROAD !![/B]

Funny thing about "dumb revisionists" is If Pippen performs even slightly better than his usual "above average" self, he is considered the one who won the series.

But

Despite MJ severely spraining his RIGHT shooting hand Wrist in previous CAVS series in ECSF, he is expected to SHOOT like GOAT & his 54 pts performance, his career's best TRIPLE DOUBLE are all overlooked.

Just to show how much these 'retarded revisionist' want Pippen to NOT look like MJ's eternal sidekick & look more like ALL-TIME GREAT

[QUOTE=DatAsh]Maybe David Robinson? Robinson was putting up 30/11/5 on 51% while also playing better defense than Pippen. David Robinson was a beast in that two year span.[/QUOTE]


I think Pippen had a great claim to the MVP and DPOTY in 1994. I think he was the DPOTY in 1995. He was a better player, overall, in 1994. And Robinson was a better overall player in 1995 than he was in 1994. But I'd take Pippen's 93/94 season ahead of any of those 4 seasons. In the playoffs, Robinson didn't do anything to separate himself. He was incredible, and I even lean towards him being the better of the two over that span, but I'm not sure...and Robinson was one of my absolute favorite players of all-time.

Also, Pippen had a better defensive season than Robinson did, in either of those seasons.

[QUOTE=bizil]Bottom line is Durant IS AN ALPHA DOG SCORER! He's also a team player who plays within the flow of the game too! U can be both. But KD's assassin mentality and epic scoring skills DICTATES he's an alpha dog scorer clearly! He frankly has a a GREAT CHANCE to be the premier alpha dog scoring machine the SF HAS EVER SEEN! And that's saying a lot when u got Bird, Nique, King, Dr. J, Barry, English, Dantley, and Baylor in that realm too.

U can want it bad, be a very skilled player, and be a 20 PPG. That DOESN'T mean u are an alpha dog scorer. A guy like Durant or Melo is in another galaxy on LIGHT SPEED HAN SOLO style than Pippen in that realm. And a point forward kind of guy like Bron has the foot on the gas EVERY SEASON to be a threat for a scoring title putting up 27-30 a night. So even point forwards who would prefer to pass first have more alpha dog gene than Pip EVER HAD! These are FACTS NOT OPINIONS! If Pip was perceived as an alpha dog, then he would rate in the top 15-20 GOAT. He was too revolutionary and accomplished for that not too happen. U give Barkley six rings and he's the GOAT PF and in the top 10 GOAT!!! A guy like Barkley is simply on another level or two than Pippen. Pip came of age when the SF's like Bird, Nique, King, English, Dantley, Aguirre, etc. were out of the league or tailend prime. Pip came of age when the SF spot wasn't the premier position depth wise in the L. When Bird was at his peak, the SF spot was the deepest position in the L in terms of cream of the crop talent![/QUOTE]



I don't really agree. Pippen was a scorer, even if it wasn't his first instinct. 22PPG is legit scoring, and he wasn't being fed those points or running in an offense where he was the beneficiary. He's been at around that average before and, outside of those two years, he did all of this behind the greatest scorer of all-time, without any PG but himself.