maybe tim is gay too but is scared to come out. hes scared amaechi outs him in his book, so tim wants to launch a pre-emptive hetero campaign.
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maybe tim is gay too but is scared to come out. hes scared amaechi outs him in his book, so tim wants to launch a pre-emptive hetero campaign.
:oldlol: @ people defending Tim Hardaway. You don't have to agree with the lifestyle to recognize what Tim said was out of line.
[QUOTE=VCDrivesAPorscheToWork]one of my extremely pro liberal feminist friends was talking to me the other day about the virtues of homosexuality.
i did not agree, yet I held civil discourse with her and then I used the "well I'm okay for gays as long as they stay away from me. i don't want them feeling up on me."
then she used the one counterargument that shut me up:
"what makes you think gay man wants you?"[/QUOTE]
pro liberal feminist? what are you a politician? did you ever get laid?
[QUOTE=DatZNasty]What they're keeping gays out of sports? Seems like it'd be difficult since there is no visual stamp of the homosexual.[/QUOTE]
Well the cases are obviously not the same as race and sexual orientation are two different matters. But as traits people are born with that has barely any affect on their game, similarities can be drawn. Like you said, it is easier to distinguish a person of a different race than it is for a homosexual, and we're not instituationalizing the banning of homosexuals from the world of sports, but there is an aura of unacceptance and residing hatred for them in society and in this situation, team sports. Which forces homosexuals to hide the truth because they would probably be ousted from their team as if they were keeping gays out of sports. Not by how they play, but by who they are. There's the comparison I draw.
Tim Hardaway has a right to his opinion and Im assuming he was asked about it..
But he should understand that the tone of his comments does more to hurt him than anything else..
[QUOTE=adamcz]I don't mind you being in a wheelchair as long as you don't wheel your gimp ass around in front of me. Just do it in the privacy of your home.[/QUOTE]
I lol'd. If we still had reputation, I would + you so hard it'd make your teeth rattle.
Stern says Tim Hardaway no longer represents the NBA. Does this take away hi chances at beiing elected to the Hall of Fame.
Also supposedly Tim was goin to be part in All-Star Weekend in Vegas. Until he made his "Hate Gay" remarks. Does anyone know what he was supposed tp participate in.
1. In the USA we do have the right to free speech... and in turn you must except the repurcussions of exercising your rights, good luck finding a job Hardaway you just took yourself out of the publics eye...
2. Using the Bible to reinforce your argument is lame, this is a subject of social acceptance and not one of morals... If you try and turn it into a moralality discussion then your use of the Bible goes against it's own teachings, add to that the fact that the Bible is not the #1 authority on morality...
We are in the year 2007 and I find it astonishing that the venom spewed on this site by some people still exists, but that is your right to spwe it and yours to suffer the repercussions of...
wang4three, well spoken, I have a new respect for you...
[QUOTE]Does anyone know what he was supposed tp participate in.[/QUOTE]
He and the world's nine most intelligent non-human primates were going to have a contest wherein we find out who can succesfully string together four complete sentences the fastest.
[QUOTE=VCDrivesAPorscheToWork]and a note to those who are piously devoted to the Book of Leviticus:
yes according to the Bible is homosexuality and sodomy are both sins and wrong. but God also teaches you not to take thinsg into your own hand and actively persecute others. he teaches that you should be moral and good and that He will take care of the sinners when the Judgment Day comes.
[B]now the Koran on the other hand actively preaches killing all infidels.[/B][/QUOTE]
There's plenty I disagree with in the Qur'an, but this is just silly.
[quote] 5:82. " . . . and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say: 'We are Christians.' That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud."
So the Quran not only does not urge Muslims to commit violence against Christians, it calls them "nearest in love" to the Muslims! The reason given is their piety, their ability to produce holy persons dedicated to God, and their lack of overweening pride.
The tendency when reading the Quran is to read a word like "kafir" (infidel) as referring to all non-Muslims. But it is clear from a close study of the way the Quran uses the word that it refers to those who actively oppose and persecute Muslims. The word literally meant "ingrate" in ancient Arabic. So the polytheists ("mushrikun") who tried to wipe out Islam were the main referents of the word "infidel." Christians, as we see above, were mostly in a completely different category. The Christian Ethiopian monarch gave refuge to the Muslims at one point when things got hot in Mecca. The Quran does at one point speak of the "infidels" among the Jews and Christians (2:105: "those who committed kufr/infidelity from among the people of the Book.") But this verse only proves that it did not think they were all infidels, and it is probably referring to specific Jewish and Christian groups who joined with the Meccans in trying to wipe out the early Muslim community. (The Quran calls Jews and Christians "people of the book" because they have a monotheistic scripture).
People often also ask me about this verse:
[5:51] O you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as friends; these are friends of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them.
This is actually not a good translation of the original, which has a very specific context. In the Arabia of Muhammad's time, it was possible for an individual to become an honorary member or "client" of a powerful tribe. But of course, if you did that you would be subordinating yourself politically to that tribe. The word used in Arabic here does not mean "friend." It means "political patron" (wali). What the Quran is trying to do is to discourage stray Muslims from subordinating themselves to Christian or Jewish tribes that might in turn ally with pagan Mecca, or in any case might have interests at odds with those of the general Muslim community.
So the verse actually says:
[5:51] O you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as tribal patrons; these are tribal patrons of one another. Those among you who become clients of these belong with them.
Since the Quran considers Christians nearest in love to Muslims, it obviously does not have an objection to friendship between the two. But apparently now it is some Christians who have that hateful attitude, of no friendship with "infidels."
[url]http://www.juancole.com/2006/03/bigotry-toward-muslims-and-anti-arab.html[/url]
more at [url]http://www.juancole.com/2006/03/peace-and-love-in-quran-list-of.html[/url] (The Qu'ran on Peace)[/quote]
[QUOTE=saKf]He and the world's nine most intelligent non-human primates were going to have a contest wherein we find out who can succesfully string together four complete sentences the fastest.[/QUOTE]
I heard a few of them pulled out after they were told they cannot use the same sentence more than once.
[QUOTE=reppy]There's plenty I disagree with in the Qur'an, but this is just silly.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, reppy.
I'm a Christian, but let's not be ridiculous about Islam.
The people that we hear about (killing people and blowing stuff up) are a hyper-conservative minority.
In fact, we have our own little version of these people right here in the United States.
They're called the Ku Klux Klan.
Islamic extremist is to Islam as KKK is to Christianity.
It doesn't stop there. "Christians" who vandalize abortion clinics, etc.
[QUOTE=saKf]Thank you, reppy.
I'm a Christian, but let's not be ridiculous about Islam.
The people that we hear about (killing people and blowing stuff up) are a hyper-conservative minority.
In fact, we have our own little version of these people right here in the United States.
They're called the Ku Klux Klan.
Islamic extremist is to Islam as KKK is to Christianity.[/QUOTE]
VCDrivesAPorsche has this habit of saying something entirely reasonable, and then following it up with an outrageous comment that he probably only read second hand somewhere.
[QUOTE=reppy]I heard a few of them pulled out after they were told they cannot use the same sentence more than once.[/QUOTE]
It's not like any of them would have been able to repeat the same sentence four times anyway...
[QUOTE=saKf]He and the world's nine most intelligent non-human primates were going to have a contest wherein we find out who can succesfully string together four complete sentences the fastest.[/QUOTE]
are patrick ewing and bobby jackson involved in this as well?
[QUOTE=SRZ66]are patrick ewing and bobby jackson involved in this as well?[/QUOTE]
Non-human primates. So just Ewing.
Hardaway is a fool. "I hate gay people" Who the hell says that on radio?
[QUOTE=loot]lets see how admirable you'd think it was if matt carroll said the same things about black people, or lebron about white people. all hell would break loose.[/QUOTE]
Homosexuality is a choice. It is not something that you are born with. A person can't do anything about their skin color (well, at least without looking like a jackass). The situations are not comparable.
[QUOTE=BlackMoses]Homosexuality is a choice. It is not something that you are born with. A person can't do anything about their skin color (well, at least without looking like a jackass). The situations are not comparable.[/QUOTE]
Most gays I've ever spoke with said they knew from an early age that there was something different about them.
I mean dude, in 2nd grade I was already fantasizing about women's boobs and receiving oral sex from them. And I have no idea how I even got those ideas. When you're a heterosexual guy, it just comes naturally, I guess.
When you're straight, certain things just seem like a good idea. Like having a girl's mouth on your wiener.
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]Tim Hardaway has a right to his opinion and Im assuming he was asked about it..
But he should understand that the tone of his comments does more to hurt him than anything else..[/QUOTE]
He is entitled to his opinion. But so are racists, and sexists, and xenophobes. It doesnt mean I have to respect the person or their opinion.
If he had said "I would not be comfortable having a gay man on my team and in my locker room", this wouldnt be an issue. He said "I hate gays". Thats the issue. He used an excessively strong word and hes getting backlash. Hes entitled to his opinion and Im entitled to my opinion that he is a giant pile of homophobic sheite.
Reppy, thank you for clarifying the misstatement by VC. People who know so little about a religion are generally the first to make ignorant statements about it.
I don't see what the big deal. If you know that a culture is predominantly heterosexual, why is there a big deal when there isn't total acceptance of homosexuality? I know people should be open minded, but by thinking that sexual preferences that are clearly not in public favor will be approved by the public at large is silly.
[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]
I'd like to think of myself as a tolerant person, but being in the presence of a gay male who is attracted to you is a disgusting experience. I went through that in a previous position a couple of years ago and it was only through exercising rigid self-control that I didn't cave his head in with a baseball bat.
[/QUOTE]
Is it any different that having an unattractive woman (i.e. a person you would never ever falk) slobebring all over you? I really dont think it is, at least in my experience. At least the gay guy will probably buy me some drinks :rockon:
[QUOTE=reppy]Most gays I've ever spoke with said they knew from an early age that there was something different about them.
I mean dude, in 2nd grade I was already fantasizing about women's boobs and receiving oral sex from them. And I have no idea how I even got those ideas. When you're a heterosexual guy, it just comes naturally, I guess.
When you're straight, certain things just seem like a good idea. Like having a girl's mouth on your wiener.[/QUOTE]
Even then, to a large degree most people's sexual life is private. There is nothing private about skin color. Comparing the plight of the gay man to that of the black man is absurd.
[QUOTE=BlackMoses]I don't see what the big deal. If you know that a culture is predominantly heterosexual, why is there a big deal when there isn't total acceptance of homosexuality? I know people should be open minded, but by thinking that sexual preferences that are clearly not in public favor will be approved by the public at large is silly.[/QUOTE]
I think there is both a generational and cultural difference in opinion. Many yankees under 30 dont care if you keep it to yourself. Older generation tends to be a little less tolerant and so do southerners. That being said, I had a friend teaching a 200 level class(about 140 kids) at Texas A&M (a notoriously conservative school) and asked them a question about gay marriage. About a third said it was immoral or against god's wil etc, a third didnt care as long as people kept it to themselves and about a third thought it should be supported and public. I was a little shocked that 2/3 of people in this situation were ok with it.
[QUOTE=HoustonRockets87]Hardaway: ``Well, you know I hate gay people, so I let it be known. I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States. So yeah, I don't like it.''
Real admirable.....There are people that don't like black people. If Lary Bird came out and said "you know I hate black people" that would be really admirable............:rollingeyes:[/QUOTE]
If it was the truth and the majority of players felt that way but were afraid to say it then I think it would be admirable becuz being truthful is always admirable.....The difference between Tim Hardaway and you local catholic priest is you local catholic priest says these things then turns arouns and feels up a little boy.
The difference between Tim Hardaway and GWB is GWB has advisors and a little ear bud withthe voice of someone telling him what to say.
His sentiment is hateful and that is dissappointing and shows his ignorance in this matter but it doesn't make the act of speaking the truth not admirable.
He didn't say go out and violate Gay people...he didn't say he'd exterminate gay people he didn't advocate discrimination against gay people....he said he'd not want him on his team or in the lockeroom....not sure I would want that either.
[QUOTE=KWALI]
He didn't say go out and violate Gay people...he didn't say he'd exterminate gay people he didn't advocate discrimination against gay people....he said he'd not want him on his team or in the lockeroom....not sure I would want that either.[/QUOTE]
nice cheap shot at the catholic church :confusedshrug:
read your quote again. his venom extends beyond the locker room. It shouldnt be in the US or the world? :wtf: He might as well say he would like to see a gay genocide. Its not stated, but its pretty well implied.
[QUOTE=boozehound]I wonder how many of you are ok with two fake lesbos going at it ina club or in a video? Is only male gayness wrong or all gayness? does there have to be penetration?
Wrong based upon....?
There are lots of well documented cases of gay sex in animals species. Some researchers estimate as high as 40% in some species. Are they wrong as well? Did they make a concious decision?
Is it wrong to engage in polygyny or polyandry? Even if its in the bible?
This statement is just as ignorant as me saying that it is wrong to be black or some other category loosely based on biological traits. :no:
If I can be bigoted against someone for being gay and that is publicly accepted, I should also be allowed to be bigoted based on racial classification or any other trait (political persuasion).
Being a christian is wrong, flat out. Against good morals too. WOuld we support this statement as acceptable if it was made against a Muslim player? Religious intolerance?
Being a christian is definitely a choice, but there is soem evidence suggesting that homosexuality is a reslut of both genetics and environment. Not neccesarily conclusive, but little in science is. [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/opinion/17pinker.html?ex=1171688400&en=39239b6beb74c2a1&ei=5070"]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/opinion/17pinker.html?ex=1171688400&en=39239b6beb74c2a1&ei=5070[/URL][/QUOTE]
Intolerance to Muslims has already been exercised in the sporting world reference Chris Jackson circe his Macmoud Rauf days....he was killed in the press for not being all star spangelled bannery......mostly becuz he was following an Islamic teaching.
Strait Men aren't comfortable being in close quarters naked etc with guys they know are gay....It's like asking wome to shower with men...especially women who perceive themselves as desireable....there would need to be a lot more understanding of homosexuality (which there just isn't) and a lot more education on homosexuality..which there won't be...b4 things change...tim was just responding honestly...people chill
[img]http://www.ultimatedisney.com/images/g-i/gr10.jpg[/img]
"I Hate gay people"
*starts sweating*
"I Hate gay people"
*twitches left eye nervously*
*takes deep breath*
"I Hate gay people"
"I Pay... DANG!!!!"
[QUOTE=KWALI]Intolerance to Muslims has already been exercised in the sporting world reference Chris Jackson circe his Macmoud Rauf days....he was killed in the press for not being all star spangelled bannery......mostly becuz he was following an Islamic teaching.
Strait Men aren't comfortable being in close quarters naked etc with guys they know are gay....It's like asking wome to shower with men...especially women who perceive themselves as desireable....there would need to be a lot more understanding of homosexuality (which there just isn't) and a lot more education on homosexuality..which there won't be...b4 things change...tim was just responding honestly...people chill[/QUOTE]
He is entitled to his opinion. But so are racists, and sexists, and xenophobes. It doesnt mean I have to respect the person or their opinion.
If he had said "I would not be comfortable having a gay man on my team and in my locker room", this wouldnt be an issue. He said "I hate gays". Thats the issue. He used an excessively strong word and hes getting backlash. Hes entitled to his opinion and Im entitled to my opinion that he is a giant pile of homophobic sheite.
O and people using same sex acts in animals to legitimize being gay are misinforming people....No animals that mate repeatedly or for life have shown any observed gay tendancies.....the same sex acts are similiar to what happens in prisons right now were men surrounded by and only having access to men will act out sexually on one another...that is not homosexuality...
eg. Elephants live in gender striated groups and only the top BUlls are allowed to mate.....teenage bulls do hump on each other but that is becuz they would not be able to mate with a female...so that same sex act is not a choice to perform sex acts or mate with individuals of the same sex but only a release of tensions for the biologial urge to mate...which is to reproduce...something gay sex doesn't do.
So you can't simply say animals are gay so it's a biological reality it's simply not understood anywhere near that level.
[QUOTE=Tarik One]No different than Karl Malone's remarks about Magic's HIV years ago. I don't see the big deal. He's only echoing many other's opinions. I find it somewhat admirable.[/QUOTE]
what was said about that again? i completely forgot
[QUOTE=boozehound]He is entitled to his opinion. But so are racists, and sexists, and xenophobes. It doesnt mean I have to respect the person or their opinion.
If he had said "I would not be comfortable having a gay man on my team and in my locker room", this wouldnt be an issue. He said "I hate gays". Thats the issue. He used an excessively strong word and hes getting backlash. Hes entitled to his opinion and Im entitled to my opinion that he is a giant pile of homophobic sheite.[/QUOTE]
I already read that post and I didn't respond to it...I am just simply saying I wonder where all of you were defending Rauf when he was getting strung up for being Muslim?
As has already been said Tim Hardaway isn't the most eloquent person and he didn't make a public service announcement he was asked..I actually think the person knew they could ge that type of response from him and that's why they asked him and not a more savy guy...but bet your sticks Grant Hill probably doesn't wanna shower with ******s either.
Not even Tim Hardaway is asking yo0u to respect him or like him either.....he is prejudiced that may not be cool with you but if his sentiments mean you have less respect for him there are A LOT of people you don't respect. like I said GWB...the POPE..
[QUOTE=boozehound]I wonder how many of you are ok with two fake lesbos going at it ina club or in a video? Is only male gayness wrong or all gayness? does there have to be penetration?
Wrong based upon....?
There are lots of well documented cases of gay sex in animals species. Some researchers estimate as high as 40% in some species. Are they wrong as well? Did they make a concious decision?
Is it wrong to engage in polygyny or polyandry? Even if its in the bible?
This statement is just as ignorant as me saying that it is wrong to be black or some other category loosely based on biological traits. :no:
If I can be bigoted against someone for being gay and that is publicly accepted, I should also be allowed to be bigoted based on racial classification or any other trait (political persuasion).
Being a christian is wrong, flat out. Against good morals too. WOuld we support this statement as acceptable if it was made against a Muslim player? Religious intolerance?
Being a christian is definitely a choice, but there is soem evidence suggesting that homosexuality is a reslut of both genetics and environment. Not neccesarily conclusive, but little in science is. [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/opinion/17pinker.html?ex=1171688400&en=39239b6beb74c2a1&ei=5070"]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/opinion/17pinker.html?ex=1171688400&en=39239b6beb74c2a1&ei=5070[/URL][/QUOTE]
Re-read my post. I said homosexuality is wrong. I never said I hated gays. Maybe I left out the fact that Tim Hardaway was being disrespectful. I don't like homosexuality, but I will still give gays and lesbians their respect because they are human beings. Homosexuality as the verb is completely wrong. Sex was ment between a man and a woman. Not a man and man or a woman and a woman.
Like I said I think homosexuality is wrong, but I'm not gunna go outside and start calling gay people f@gs or queers. Gay people are humans that deserve the respect that gay people get.
Hardaway has alot to learn and Im sure hes gonna get ragged on for awhile but if gay players would become a normal thing in the NBA...would they share the same locker room?
It would be interesting to see how that would work... Imagine Jordan turning to Pippen after taking off his shorts and noticing that Pippen has a bone. It wouldnt be right...
...then again Ive never used co-ed bathrooms or locker rooms.....
[QUOTE=305Baller]Hardaway has alot to learn and Im sure hes gonna get ragged on for awhile but if gay players would become a normal thing in the NBA...would they share the same locker room?
It would be interesting to see how that would work... Imagine Jordan turning to Pippen after taking off his shorts and noticing that Pippen has a bone. It wouldnt be right...
...then again Ive never used co-ed bathrooms or locker rooms.....[/QUOTE]
It would be like the guys and the girl's changing room/bathrooms. Instead it would be guys and gays.
[quote=saKf]Thank you, reppy.
I'm a Christian, but let's not be ridiculous about Islam.
The people that we hear about (killing people and blowing stuff up) are a hyper-conservative minority.
In fact, we have our own little version of these people right here in the United States.
They're called the Ku Klux Klan.
Islamic extremist is to Islam as KKK is to Christianity.
It doesn't stop there. "Christians" who vandalize abortion clinics, etc.[/quote]
yeah but do kkk's commit terrorist acts?
[QUOTE=mhsbasketball]yeah but do kkk's commit terrorist acts?[/QUOTE] yes they do...
Dont forget the oklahoma city bombings. That was not islamic-related.
That aint right..
"A day after former Heat guard Tim Hardaway expressed his disgust over gay players competing in the NBA, Heat coach Pat Riley offered a rebuke, as well as perspective.
Riley offered his comments on Hardaway's stance on the Hank Goldberg Show on 560-WQAM.
"It would not be tolerated in our organization," Riley said Thursday.
A day earlier, on 790 The Ticket, Hardaway said, "I hate gay people. I let it be known, I don't like gay people. I don't like to be around gay people.
"Yeah, I'm homophobic. I don't like it."
Hardaway's comments came a week after retired center John Amaechi became the first active or former NBA player to publicly acknowledge he was gay.
Against that backdrop, Riley, who is spending the All-Star break at his Los Angeles-area home, was asked to comment on his radio segment.
"Yes, I was shocked by some of the words that he used," Riley said. "It's a tough subject to talk about if you're not really thinking about it a lot. It's one-sided. But I was a little bit shocked by some of the words that he used.
"But I do know that Tim's a good spirit and I'm sure now wished he could take all of that back. And I hope he's not severely judged by his spewing of some of those words. That kind of thinking can't be tolerated. It just can't."
Riley coached Hardaway for six seasons with the Heat. The team had been expected to eventually retire Hardaway's No. 10 jersey, a possibility that now could be in doubt.
During his interview a day earlier, Hardaway said he would have been asked to be traded had a teammate acknowledged he was gay.
"Well, I don't think he really meant that," Riley said. "He said it. But I think if the situation ever were to occur, with a team, I think it would be dealt with, dealt with like anything else.
"And I don't think any player would just sort of walk away from a contract or whatever. And in those situations, like it is in business, like it is in schools, like it is in society, that has to be dealt with from a leadership standpoint, from a corporate standpoint, and it just simply would not be tolerated."
Riley said he had yet to speak to Hardaway, but planned to do so. Hardaway does not have a working relationship with the Heat, although he frequently attends home games and is acknowledged on the overhead video screens.
"Some of our best friends are gay…," Riley said. "And I do think we live in a society now, and a time, when we have to understand that this is what is life…
"I think we as a country have realized it, our problem has always been something to do with discrimination or bigotry and judgments, and we've got to get that absolutely out of our psyche and the old patterns and the old things that we've lived by, they've changed."
Riley for president.