Printable View
[QUOTE=fpliii]Was it extra range on his fadeaway from the post, or was it a designed jumpshot?[/QUOTE]
There is college footage of a pure jump shot...
I apologize to cavsFan, but I have this saved and it is faster for me to pull up...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak[/url]
take a look at around the 20-30 second marks...TWO jumpshots.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]There is college footage of a pure jump shot...
I apologize to cavsFan, but I have this saved and it is faster for me to pull up...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak[/url]
take a look at around the 20-30 second marks...TWO jumpshots.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the link. It's up to CavsFTW, obviously.
BTW when did he lose his range? I've heard 63-64 (when he bulked up) and 66-67 (when he stopped shooting the fadeaway).
BTW, did Fatal9 ever post something like that? Nope, he deliberately edited what little footage there was of two partial games in which Chamberlain played (and as CavsFan showed, Wilt was in bad shape in one), and tries to come off as claiming that THAT was Wilt's post moves...
[QUOTE=fpliii]Thanks for the link. It's up to CavsFTW, obviously.
BTW when did he lose his range? I've heard 63-64 (when he bulked up) and 66-67 (when he stopped shooting the fadeaway).[/QUOTE]
Let's just say he became more selective. Hell, there is footage of a 35 year old Wilt hitting 12 foot fadeaway bank shots in the Finals...
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]BTW, did Fatal9 ever post something like that? Nope, he deliberately edited what little footage there was of two partial games in which Chamberlain played (and as CavsFan showed, [B]Wilt was in bad shape in one[/B]), and tries to come off as claiming that THAT was Wilt's post moves...[/QUOTE]
OT - I actually wasn't originally aware of the injury in 67, so when I read the posts originally I though you guys were referencing him getting hurt in G4 of the 64 Finals (the other in the mix, evidently).
From the Oakland Tribune:
[QUOTE]"We've beaten them in Boston Garden" added center Wilt Chamberlain, whose hand was badly bruised and swollen from a collision with the lower edge of the backboard in the second quarter.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Despite his bruised hand, Wilt will be ready to go tomorrow
The '67 season footage I have of him he takes it 2 maybe three times in total despite that season having more coverage than his first couple of seasons... yet nearly all other seasons prior to this he was filmed taking many many fade aways - in fact the overwhelming majority of his career fadeaways captured on film were captured during this time of the least amount of his career being covered. Also, after 67 he is seen taking them as Lazeruss states, but at that point they were still much less frequent than his early seasons - I mean a big percentage based on film. And his fade aways from the right block that he used to release near the high post seem to have all but disappeared.
[QUOTE=fpliii]OT - I actually wasn't originally aware of the injury in 67, so when I read the posts originally I though you guys were referencing him getting hurt in G4 of the 64 Finals (the other in the mix, evidently).
From the Oakland Tribune:
I'm not sure how much it impacted his play, though, so maybe it wasn't a huge deal. He also ripped the flesh off of his hand on some metal in G5, but that's unrelated.
Here are the articles from the Tribune and Globe on the Finals:
[url]http://www61.zippyshare.com/v/91790456/file.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Good stuff. If you really want to check something out...read up on Wilt's '60 EDF's. He was simply awful in game three.
I still think a healthy Wilt takes that rag-tag last place team to a title that season...
I'm adding another category to the video - deep catches, where he's fighting or has fought for deeper position than just his usual left or right block spot
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]
I still think a healthy Wilt...[/QUOTE]
...let me finish that sentence for you....IS OVERRATED.
more proof you don’t understand bball….the guy was winless in game 7's against russell. yet since he can score 50ppg in the regular season, against scrubs, he gets a pass from you and other wilt fans. but again, you are too FAT to realize these things….you don’t have the mental depth that an epic genius such as myself has….
wilt, while great, was a choker in the playoffs. a documented historical fact which is not up for debate.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]...let me finish that sentence for you....IS OVERRATED.
more proof you don
[B]Lazeruss knows/mentions every single injury or minor "issue" that Wilt had, even a broken fingernail, yet "forgets" major injuries for a player like Bird. :oldlol:
Calling someone a post-season choker when your biggest idol is Wilt Chamberlain :lol
Seriously, this dude thinks he's doing something "right" yet just makes everyone hate (or hate more) Wilt. Stop it please.
Sorry to have to post this on this thread with a great video like that posted but just had to.[/B]
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Lazeruss knows/mentions every single injury or minor "issue" that Wilt had, even a broken fingernail, yet "forgets" major injuries for a player like Bird. :oldlol:
Calling someone a post-season choker when your biggest idol is Wilt Chamberlain :lol
Seriously, this dude thinks he's doing something "right" yet just makes everyone hate (or hate more) Wilt. Stop it please.
Sorry to have to post this on this thread with a great video like that posted but just had to.[/B][/QUOTE]
Please take your sorry a$$ elsewhere please. You have proven that you have absolutely no knowledge on the subject of basketball, yet you keep coming back and making a complete fool of yourself. Time to move on...
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Lazeruss knows/mentions every single injury or minor "issue" that Wilt had, even a broken fingernail, yet "forgets" major injuries for a player like Bird. :oldlol:
Calling someone a post-season choker when your biggest idol is Wilt Chamberlain :lol
Seriously, this dude thinks he's doing something "right" yet just makes everyone hate (or hate more) Wilt. Stop it please.
Sorry to have to post this on this thread with a great video like that posted but just had to.[/B][/QUOTE]
what's with this ongoing feud you two have in regards to Larry Bird that I always catch wind of :oldlol:
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]what's with this ongoing feud you two have in regards to Larry Bird that I always catch wind of :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
[B]Nothing really, just that he hates/underrates the hell out of some players in order to prop-up Wilt along the road.
I've always been a fan of Wilt and praised him here long before I had any "feud" with him, always said that he had a top5 peak and have no beef if you rate him top5 all-time but that dude goes to far while posting ignorant shit to underrate/hate on other players such as Bird or Kareem, in order to "prop-up" Wilt, when there's no need for that.[/B]
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Nothing really, just that he hates/underrates the hell out of some players in order to prop-up Wilt along the road.
I've always been a fan of Wilt and praised him here long before I had any "feud" with him, always said that he had a top5 peak and have no beef if you rate him top5 all-time but that dude goes to far while posting ignorant shit to underrate/hate on other players such as Bird or Kareem, in order to "prop-up" Wilt, when there's no need for that.[/B][/QUOTE]
HUH????
I have Kareem at #5 on my all-time list, and Bird at #10. About right where they belong.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]HUH????
I have Kareem at #5 on my all-time list, and Bird at #10. About right where they belong.[/QUOTE]
[B]Yea, where they belong in your ignorant/crazy/biased mind. (Wilt #1 right? please post his case, would love to read that ignorant but funny essay, like you always do, or not, most likely I wouldn't read it lol, I know how it goes, I know the "deal")
Again, most people, or at least knowledgeable people (not people like the writers at SLAM magazine lol), have KAreem in their top3, Bird in their top5 and Wilt out of their top5, plus Bird with a top5 peak/prime and better than Magic's prime/peak. That's how it goes and you know it, that's why you're mad and have 2500 posts all involving Wilt somehow, with your crazy agenda. :lol [/B]
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Yea, where they belong in your ignorant/crazy/biased mind. (Wilt #1 right? please post his case, would love to read that ignorant but funny essay, like you always do, or not, most likely I wouldn't read it lol, I know how it goes, I know the "deal")
Again, most people, or at least knowledgeable people (not people like the writers at SLAM magazine lol), have KAreem in their top3, Bird in their top5 and Wilt out of their top5, plus Bird with a top5 peak/prime and better than Magic's prime/peak. That's how it goes and you know it, that's why you're mad and have 2500 posts all involving Wilt somehow, with your crazy agenda. :lol [/B][/QUOTE]
No they don't and even YOU know it.
Get the hell outta here with that nonsense.
As for Bird-Magic, even the notorious (and idiotic) CELTIC HOMER Bill Simmons has Magic over Bird.
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Yea, where they belong in your ignorant/crazy/biased mind. (Wilt #1 right? please post his case, would love to read that ignorant but funny essay, like you always do, or not, most likely I wouldn't read it lol, I know how it goes, I know the "deal")
Again, most people, or at least knowledgeable people (not people like the writers at SLAM magazine lol), have KAreem in their top3, Bird in their top5 and Wilt out of their top5, plus Bird with a top5 peak/prime and better than Magic's prime/peak. That's how it goes and you know it, that's why you're mad and have 2500 posts all involving Wilt somehow, with your crazy agenda. :lol [/B][/QUOTE]
Come on now whether you agree or not with the final conclusion Wilt does have a case for GOAT as do several players, Kareem himself wrote that open letter to Pippen stating Wilt's case (and Bill Russell's). Sonny Hill says in interviews almost the same words, both towards Wilt and Russell. Rick Barry thinks Wilt is the GOAT... I mean, these guys aren't exactly ignorant on the subject. Wilt does have a case for being GOAT. In short, because of his dominance... more specifically because of his nearly incomprehensible dominance. He's 1 guy who played over 40 years ago and he's still the #1 name in the NBA record book. He's got a case. Everyone's criteria is different.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]No they don't and even YOU know it.
Get the hell outta here with that nonsense.
As for Bird-Magic, even the notorious (and idiotic) CELTIC HOMER Bill Simmons has Magic over Bird.[/QUOTE]
[B]:oldlol: You're so mad because you know that's how it goes :oldlol:
Maybe as far as careers yea, on the all-time list, 1 spot higher, I always said I can easily "see it" although I got Bird higher on my list, by 1 spot. Even with a better team overall, on average, throughout the years for their careers (playing alongside a top3 goat, while only being the clear cut alpha in his 6th season, Bird was from the get-go), even with more healthy years, even on a weaker conference, even with 2 more rings... most people never rank Bird 2 spots, or more, lower than Magic. That's because Bird had a better peak as an overall player and for the most part was the better player when they were both healthy (considered in those days too)....
Anyways this thread should focus on that great video and Wilt's amazing talent, not this "silly" discussion so I won't post more, why bother....[/B]
[QUOTE=jongib369]He does seem like he knows a LOT, just don't see a reason to leave out information like this when he posts a highlight of Wilt posting up
"The Rivalry (book documenting Wilt and Russell's Rivalry in the 1960's)
"More significantly, the pain in Chamberlain's knees had grown worse with each game. Now the slightest bend in either knee sent an excruciating jolt through the leg, and he was forced to go up and down stairs sideways, to avoid bending his knees. When he arrived for practice on Friday, he could barely walk. D. Lorber examined him and realized that Chamberlain's knee-joint capsules had become inflamed. Lorber instructed Chamberlain to spend the entire day receiving heat treatment on his knees. He thought that if Chamberlain remained inactive, and received heat treatement that day and the next, the inflammation might subside enough for him to at least start on Sunday. Chamberlain spent several hours each day with his knees under an infrared heat lamp, but by Saturday afternoon, when the team was leaving for Boston (IE the game from which those "highlights" are taken), he was still walking stiff-legged."
"Chamberlain's sore knees had hampered his running and jumping throughout the game"
[/QUOTE]
1. fatal
[QUOTE=trueDS]1. fatal
[QUOTE=trueDS]1. fatal’s video was made not from one game, but two: 1967 EDF# 4 and 1964 FINALS# 4. The only full (well, two full halves) games of prime Wilt’s available.
2. That quote from “The Rivalry” says Chamberlain felt pain in the knee, not that he was unable to play. And pain in the playoffs isn’t something unusual for most players. Besides, if he was seriously injured, we would see drop in his production in next game. But that’s not what happened as he scored 29 pts (10/16 FG), grabbed 36 rebounds, assisted 13 times and probably had around 15 blocks just two days after that game 4. So his relatively bad play (he still had triple double and probably 8 blocks) in game 4 wasn’t cause by injury, but was just worse game – what happens to everyone from time to time, even Wilt had several such games during 1967 run, obviously most of them vs defensively great Thurmond in the finals, but also one game vs Royals (very similar to game 4 vs Celtics).
In second game used by fatal Wilt had 27 pts (12/23 FG) and 38 rebounds, so scoring wise it was performance around his series averages and rebounding wise was the best game of that series, so he definitely was healthy and doesn't look much better than in 1967 game.
Bottom line is these two full halves are the only non-edited, full game material of prime Wilt in the playoffs so it’s the best what we have to analyze if we want to reasonably discuss about Chamberlain. It’s much better than edited highlights of only made shots.[/QUOTE]
Nah, it isn't, it's pretty much crap. Wilt wasn't attacking the basket in either game. I'm going through every basket he's made in his entire known career on film right now and I'm showing the entire extended play, setting up in the post, being fed, etc not just a highlight of his finish or move. The '64 and '67 games don't show but an inconsequentially small fraction of how Wilt not only scored, but knew how to play in the post.
How many pick and rolls do you see in those two games? How many lobs were thrown? How many fast breaks did Wilt start? How many fast breaks did Wilt finish? How many give and go plays were run? How much was Wilt in the high post? How many moves from the left side did he perform, how about right? How many baseline spins did he attempt?
I've got dozens upon dozens of clips of Wilt executing textbook examples of entirely different categories of plays than what he's seen attempting in those games.
Also, you can't dismiss that quote about G4 1967. Doing so just shows you wish to ignore evidence. There's no evidence that supports he was physically fine that game. He was productive statistically? Great. That's got nothing to do with how he moves around on the floor barely able to bend his knees. The video fatal made was to show, or rather, poke fun at Wilts movements around the floor. Because Fatal9 quite openly does not respect or like Wilt Chamberlain's game. He thinks he knows more than he actually does, he's seen probably 1/16th of the footage I've seen if he's lucky. He's uninformed about Wilt. Fatal probably thinks that's the way Wilt always moved, it isn't, that's how Wilt moved that game, with badly inflamed knees and shinsplints. That footage will not show you a glimpse of the Wilt you wish to see.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Not sure if you are seriously defending Fatal's BLATANT mis-representation here, or not.
First of all, Wilt was badly hampered by injury in the one half of that game in '67. [/quote]
He felt pain, but it's doubtfull he was seriously injured because two days later he played great game. No serious injury is healed in TWO DAYS.
[quote]
And, BTW, it was his WORST in that series.[/quote]
Bad games happens from time to time - doesn't mean it was caused by injury. Wilt had similar bad games that year vs Cinny (once) and in the finals vs Thurmond (many times).
[quote]Secondly, Fatal DELIBERATELY left out HALF of Chamberlain's MAKES in those games. [/quote]
He focused only on POST UPS, so that's why he didn't include other types of shots.
[quote]As far as anything really meaningful, if you can dig up just one of Chamberlain's 271 40 point games, I suspect that we would have a far more meaningful representation of his scoring skills.[/quote]
We don't really need to dig it up, because Wilt's playoffs drop off in efficiency is pretty clear. In regular season he stat padded vs weak competition (he was GOAT offensive rebounder so scored a lot that way), but there's much less easy baskets in playoffs and that's why Wilt's scoring limitations were exposed in the playoffs.
[quote]
Incidently, we do have much of his 42 point All-Star game (17-23 from the field too), and he looked FAR better than in those edited clips by Fatal.[/QUOTE]
On postups he looked as bad as in fatal's video. Besides that ASG game was clearly above his normal efficiency that year: 73.9 FG% in ASG vs 50.6% in regular and 46.7% in playoffs. So Wilt looked much better in that game than usually.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]
I've got dozens upon dozens of clips of Wilt executing textbook examples of entirely different categories of plays than what he's seen attempting in those games.[/quote]
But you don't know how often he used that different play types and how efficient he was! Really, how many of his shots do you have? 1-2% (including misses) of his whole career? 5%? No more I think. And probably affected by "highlight bias", because it's more likely someone have kept Wilt's better, more unique plays, than bad or the ones he often used. (That's why it's so important to analyze game based on full games/halves/quarters, not some edited highlights.)
[quote]
Also, you can't dismiss that quote about G4 1967. Doing so just shows you wish to ignore evidence. There's no evidence that supports he was physically fine that game. He was productive statistically? Great. That's got nothing to do with how he moves around on the floor barely able to bend his knees. [/quote]
1. So explain why two days later he played so great game? No serious injury is healed in two days...
2. fatal's video has also other game and Wilt looks the same on post ups.
[QUOTE=trueDS]He felt pain, but it's doubtfull he was seriously injured because two days later he played great game. No serious injury is healed in TWO DAYS.
Bad games happens from time to time - doesn't mean it was caused by injury. Wilt had similar bad games that year vs Cinny (once) and in the finals vs Thurmond (many times).
He focused only on POST UPS, so that's why he didn't include other types of shots.
We don't really need to dig it up, because Wilt's playoffs drop off in efficiency is pretty clear. In regular season he stat padded vs weak competition (he was GOAT offensive rebounder so scored a lot that way), but there's much less easy baskets in playoffs and that's why Wilt's scoring limitations were exposed in the playoffs.
On postups he looked as bad as in fatal's video. Besides that ASG game was clearly above his normal efficiency that year: 73.9 FG% in ASG vs 50.6% in regular and 46.7% in playoffs. So Wilt looked much better in that game than usually.[/QUOTE]
Yep, there is probably a total of 2% of Wilt's NBA footage available, and in none of them, was he anywhere near at his best.
As for post-season domination...
In his "scoring" prime, covering 52 games, he averaged 32.8 ppg, 26.7 rpg, and shot .505, in post-seasons that shot about .425. And 30 of those games were against Russell and the greatest dynasty in NBA history.
Hell, in his first 67 playoff games, he averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 (in post-season in which the league shot about .428)...and 35 of those games were against Russell, and six more against Thurmond.
Give me a list of the players who have put up a 30-27-5 .515 (and outshooting the league average by 9%) series (with 8 bpg). In fact, give me the list of NBA players who had one playoff GAME with those numbers. Oh, and make sure that they were facing a HOFer too.
[QUOTE=trueDS]He felt pain, but it's doubtfull he was seriously injured because two days later he played great game. No serious injury is healed in TWO DAYS.
Bad games happens from time to time - doesn't mean it was caused by injury. Wilt had similar bad games that year vs Cinny (once) and in the finals vs Thurmond (many times).
He focused only on POST UPS, so that's why he didn't include other types of shots.
We don't really need to dig it up, because Wilt's playoffs drop off in efficiency is pretty clear. In regular season he stat padded vs weak competition (he was GOAT offensive rebounder so scored a lot that way), but there's much less easy baskets in playoffs and that's why Wilt's scoring limitations were exposed in the playoffs.
On postups he looked as bad as in fatal's video. Besides that ASG game was clearly above his normal efficiency that year: 73.9 FG% in ASG vs 50.6% in regular and 46.7% in playoffs. So Wilt looked much better in that game than usually.[/QUOTE]
Yeah looks like you're going to get exposed for being one of fatals loyal Wilt jesters when my complete offensive game break down for Wilt is finished. Because currently it seems the only things you believe about Wilt is what Fatal9 showed you or told you, how cute :oldlol:
It is laughable how little can be determined from those two game halves let alone how misleading that 2nd one is due to Wilt having limited mobility in his legs.
Oh wait you dismissed that, for god knows why, maybe cause Fatal didn't tell you about it :oldlol:
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Yeah looks like you're going to get exposed for being one of fatals loyal Wilt jesters when my complete offensive game break down for Wilt is finished. Because currently it seems the only things you believe about Wilt is what Fatal9 showed you or told you, how cute :oldlol:
It is laughable how little can be determined from those two game halves let alone how misleading that 2nd one is due to Wilt having limited mobility in his legs.
Oh wait you dismissed that, for god knows why, maybe cause Fatal didn't tell you about it :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
These RealGM posters are clowns.
Nothing but an anti-Wilt agenda.
[QUOTE]We don't really need to dig it up, because Wilt's playoffs drop off in efficiency is pretty clear. In regular season he stat padded vs weak competition (he was GOAT offensive rebounder so scored a lot that way), but there's much less easy baskets in playoffs and that's why Wilt's scoring limitations were exposed in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]
Russell couldn't do anything with a prime Chamberlain in the post-season.
Wilt had post-season series against him of...
30.5 ppg on a .500 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .402.)
33.6 ppg on a .468 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .411.) Oh, and BTW, in Wilt's 10 regular season H2H's with Russell, he averaged 39.7 ppg on a .471 FG%. Not really much of a drop off...especially when post-season scoring and shooting dropped dramatically overall.
29.2 ppg on a .517 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .420.)
30.1 ppg on a .555 FG% (in a seven game series, in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .429.) BTW, in his regular season H2H's with Russell that year, he averaged 25.3 ppg on a .473 FG%.
28.0 ppg on a .509% (in a post-season NBA that shot .440.) Oh, and in their nine regular season H2H's... 28.3 ppg on a .527 FG%.
[QUOTE=trueDS]But you don't know how often he used that different play types and how efficient he was! Really, how many of his shots do you have? 1-2% (including misses) of his whole career? 5%? [B]No more I think. And probably affected by "highlight bias", because it's more likely someone have kept Wilt's better, more unique plays, than bad or the ones he often used.[/B] (That's why it's so important to analyze game based on full games/halves/quarters, not some edited highlights.)
[B]1. So explain why two days later he played so great game? No serious injury is healed in two days...[/B]
2. fatal's video has also other game and Wilt looks the same on post ups.[/QUOTE]
Negative, there are no Wilt highlights from his time. Winek made films on the LEAGUE, not on Wilt. The league back then was not about individualism it was about teams. There are short clips of his teams captured by Winek. This is no highlight bias towards him, most of his games were never filmed, Winek would capture maybe a few key sequences from some all star games, or the last game of the season, or perhaps a mid season game if the documentary is a half way point of the season, or a few playoff clips if it's a playoff documentary. None of the focus was on Wilt, so much as it was his teams and other teams around the league.
Irrelevant anyways - a great deal of my footage of Wilt comes from games. And guys like Phila have made shot charts of all of Wilt's games/game halves available. If you want to get into numbers, you see what he has to offer. I'm about showing what Wilt could do. And I'm telling you, the '64 and '67 clips Fatal9 presented of Wilt will lead you to nothing but a pure BS conclusion. His 'post up' videos of Wilt drawn from a pitiful 2 game halves (one being of Wilt greatly immobilized by leg injuries) are more misleading than any 'highlight' of Wilt ever could be.
And who says his injury was healed simply because he had a great game :biggums:
MJ dropped 40 with the flu, was he cured during the game? Wilt clinched 1972 Finals with a 24pt 29reb game... with a broken bone in his hand and a sprained wrist... must it have been totally healed all along? Perhaps just a myth? I didn't know you had to be totally healthy to have a great game I learned something new today :applause:
:hammerhead:
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]
In his "scoring" prime, covering 52 games, he averaged 32.8 ppg, 26.7 rpg, and shot .505, in post-seasons that shot about .425. And 30 of those games were against Russell and the greatest dynasty in NBA history.
Hell, in his first 67 playoff games, he averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 (in post-season in which the league shot about .428)...and 35 of those games were against Russell, and six more against Thurmond.
Give me a list of the players who have put up a 30-27-5 .515 (and outshooting the league average by 9%) series (with 8 bpg). In fact, give me the list of NBA players who had one playoff GAME with those numbers. Oh, and make sure that they were facing a HOFer too.[/QUOTE]
1. No need to bring rebounds (Wilt was arguably GOAT rebounder and no one is arguing with that) or assists, because we discuss only about SCORING ABILITIES.
2. I'm talking about his drop off in scoring efficiency in playoffs, so it really doesn't matter how many players averaged as much points as Wilt (besides his numbers are inflated by crazy 60s pace), but how different were his playoffs averages in comparison to his regular season PPG, FG% and TS%.
During, as you called is "his scoring prime", his playoffs and regular season scoring stats are:
[code]
60-66 PPG MPG FG% TS%
PO 32,8 47,5 50,5 52,0
RS 39,6 47,0 51,1 52,9
[/code]
So he was slightly worse efficiency wise, but much worse volume wise.
BTW, not only pace affectes his numbers, but also minutes - he would not have played so many minutes in any other era, so if we want to compare him with stars from different eras, good thing to do is give per 36 numbers. And in this case his PPG in playoffs per 36 was 24.9 with around +2/+3 TS% above league average. Very good results, but definitely not "unstoppable scorer".
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]
And who says his injury was healed simply because he had a great game [/QUOTE]
It's basic logic: if he had serious injury in G4 and it affected his game, it would have been seen in results: as well in G4, as in game two days later. But nothing is seen, he played ok in one game and great in another, ergo no serious injury.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]These RealGM posters are clowns.
Nothing but an anti-Wilt agenda.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Yeah looks like you're going to get exposed for being one of fatals loyal Wilt jesters when my complete offensive game break down for Wilt is finished. Because currently it seems the only things you believe about Wilt is what Fatal9 showed you or told you, how cute :oldlol:
It is laughable how little can be determined from those two game halves let alone how misleading that 2nd one is due to Wilt having limited mobility in his legs.
Oh wait you dismissed that, for god knows why, maybe cause Fatal didn't tell you about it :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Good job guys, lack of reasonable arguments, so lets use personal attacks (only people who are wrong "discuss" that way). Learn how to discuss first, because with that attitude you do more harm to Wilt than good.
[QUOTE=trueDS]It's basic logic: if he had serious injury in G4 and it affected his game, it would have been seen in results: as well in G4, as in game two days later. But nothing is seen, he played ok in one game and great in another, ergo no serious injury.
Good job guys, lack of reasonable arguments, so lets use personal attacks (only people who are wrong "discuss" that way). Learn how to discuss first, because with that attitude you do more harm to Wilt than good.[/QUOTE]
'Lack of reasonable arguments' says the guy who totally dismisses a detailed description of Wilt being crippled from the knees down the day before and the day of G4 of 1967 Finals :oldlol:
And this is ISH, not realgm if you're being a total idiot, you're going to get called out for being an idiot.
You're being an idiot right now. Know why? You are denying Wilt's injury and it's described effect on his mobility in regards to the aforementioned game due to him having... a good game 2 days later? And because you don't find it 'logical' his injury is not true or a non-factor?
I'm sorry but your logic in this case, should be re-titled as your IMAGINATION, because that's all it is. It is a fact that he was injured, and playing on greatly reduced mobility from the knees down because of it. If you're logic doesn't compute you need a new logic board. Because great players are capable of playing great games through injury, that doesn't mean their mobility isn't being greatly effected, how about Jerry West's dead leg in the 1969 finals, where he visibly hobbles around reduced to shooting and incapable of driving, or the same for Isiah Thomas' dominant game on 1 leg where he's limping all over the place... great games, by great players, playing through injury. Wilt played through inflamed knees and shinsplints. Deny it some more why don't you, you're going to build your reputation up real nice around here ignoring facts in place of you're own personal 'logic'.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]
You're being an idiot right now. Know why? You are denying Wilt's injury and it's described effect on his mobility in regards to the aforementioned game due to him having... a good game 2 days later? And because you don't find it 'logical' his injury is not true or a non-factor? [/QUOTE]
You still don't understand, do you? Look, you guys criticize fatal's video, because he used game, during which Wilt was bothered by pain. Ok, lets leave question about how serious that injury really was. The point is - fatal used also other game (from 1964), when Wilt's was definitely healthy and his postups moves look exactly the same as in 1967 game or 1962 ASG or any other Wilt's game available for that matter. For instance check out first shot (1967 game) from fatal's video and compare it to shot from 1:45 mark (1964 game) - the same move, his mobility looks EXACTLY THE SAME in 1964 as in 1967.
[QUOTE=trueDS]You still don't understand, do you? Look, you guys criticize fatal's video, because he used game, during which Wilt was bothered by pain. Ok, lets leave question about how serious that injury really was. The point is - fatal used also other game (from 1964), when Wilt's was definitely healthy and his postups moves look exactly the same as in 1967 game or 1962 ASG or any other Wilt's game available for that matter. For instance check out first shot (1967 game) from fatal's video and compare it to shot from 1:45 mark (1964 game) - the same move, his mobility looks EXACTLY THE SAME in 1964 as in 1967.[/QUOTE]
No, his drop step capability is greatly diminished in the '67 game. Why the hell do you think he's taking little baby steps with his fade away and finger roll? That is not his normal footwork by any means. He can't dig in and push off with his normal drop steps. The very first step in the '64 game is far larger and more deliberate than any of his attempted drop steps in the '67 game. If you don't see this you're blind. Also he showed 2 rushed shots as if those are somehow a reflection of Wilt's normal post moves in the '64 game. In a game half where Wilt only posted up like 5 or 6 times, showing 2 crummy rushed shots along with another game half where Wilt is completely immobilized from his normal range of motion is going to skew the perception quite a bit no?
Also let's take a second to realize... that's like 8-10 total post ups, in a 2 minute span.. half of which aren't an accurate representation of what Wilt was capable of to begin with?
And you're judging his post up skills on this?
Really? And you think Fatal9 was being an honest guy showing this?
:oldlol:
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW] The very first step in the '64 game is far larger and more deliberate than any of his attempted drop steps in the '67 game. If you don't see this you're blind.[/QUOTE]
You know I could tell the same: "if you don't see that mobility in first move (1967 game) and the one from 1:45 mark (1964 game) is the same, then you are blind"? Where such discussion will lead us? But anyway, thank you, I wasn't sure before, but now I'm that you are not interested in real discussion about Wilt, you just want to show that he was unstoppable scorer (or whatever you believe), no matter what reality really was. Good luck with that.
[QUOTE=trueDS]You know I could tell the same: "if you don't see that mobility in first move (1967 game) and the one from 1:45 mark (1964 game) is the same, then you are blind"? Where such discussion will lead us? But anyway, thank you, I wasn't sure before, but now I'm that you are not interested in real discussion about Wilt, you just want to show that he was unstoppable scorer (or whatever you believe), no matter what reality really was. Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]
trueDS the expert on Wilt, thinks Wilt wasn't an unstoppable scorer thanks to Fatal9's 2 minute video of Wilt posting up on injured legs and rushed shots :applause: :roll:
This is classic, you actually tried to come here and try to stick up for that egregiously misleading video and dismiss facts about Wilt being injured for one of those games, boy aren't you quite the expert on Wilt's scoring capabilities from all that Wilt footage Fatal9 provided you with :oldlol:
[QUOTE=trueDS]You know I could tell the same: "if you don't see that mobility in first move (1967 game) and the one from 1:45 mark (1964 game) is the same, then you are blind"? Where such discussion will lead us? But anyway, thank you, I wasn't sure before, but now I'm that you are not interested in real discussion about Wilt, you just want to show that he was unstoppable scorer (or whatever you believe), no matter what reality really was. Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]
Just curious, have you seen the Kansas NCAA tournament highlights of Wilt Cavs put together? Wilt looks really good on there in all phases of the game for a center.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8JuK2dVky0[/url]
[QUOTE=Marchesk]Just curious, have you seen the Kansas NCAA tournament highlights of Wilt Cavs put together? Wilt looks really good on there in all phases of the game for a center.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8JuK2dVky0[/url][/QUOTE]
Yes, I have seen it and it's perfect example of Wilt's skills: great athlete, rebounder, shot blocker, pretty good passer, nice movement off the ball, limited as scorer - no postup game, mostly finished in transition, after ORB or after quick catch and shot fadeaway. And keep in mind he played vs weak competition here, If I'm not mistaken he made 53 shots on that video and only 3 of them were against black defenders (but still weaker and shorter than Chamberlain).
Well, I as well might share more info from that video. He made 53 shots (so 19.3% of his all made shots during that season! That's pretty significant sample) - 50.9% of them were transition, cuts and after offensive rebounds; postups (most of them vs short North Carolina defenders), fadeaways and other plays (3 total): 49.1%
I don't know how many he missed, but we know what his totals were during that season and we could assume he made around 75% of his attempts around the basket (so transition, cut and ORB plays) - in fact it was probably even higher (for example in Dippers/Phila sample he made 82.4% of his at rim shots).
So assuming 50.9% of his attempts during season in NCAA were transition, cut and orb plays and he made 75% of them, that means he was 140/408 on postups and fadeaways, so only 34.3%... yeah, very bad, but that's what we would expect from so weak shooter (look at his FT%) and postup player. (and BTW, in Dippers/Phila sample he was 30% from midrange.) And probably in reality he was even worse from postups and fadeaways, because I think he was better at rim finisher than 75%, especially in NCAA, where back then almost no one could compete with him.
Weak era. Stop promoting your channel here.
Fun video. I appreciate the share.