Larry Bird vs. Magic Johnson - Complete Career Head-to-Head Stats

[QUOTE=dankok8]Kind of agree with KevinNYC that Bird should have gotten the '81 Finals MVP. He was fighting peak Moses virtually even on the boards (15.3 vs 16.3) and led both teams in assists (7.0) and steals (2.3) by a large margin.

[U]Series Stats[/U]

Bird: 15.3 ppg, 15.3 rpg, 7.0 apg, 2.3 spg, 0.5 bpg on 41.9 %FG/46.0 %TS
Maxwell: 17.7 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.2 spg, 1.0 bpg on 56.8 %FG/61.1 %TS

[U]Stats in Wins[/U]

Bird: 16.0 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 8.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg on 43.8 %FG/46.5 %TS
Maxwell: 19.0 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 0.3 spg, 1.3 bpg on 57.7 %FG/62.5 %TS

But let's break it down game-by-game shall we?

Game 1 [B] Bird: 18/21/9 on 52.9%[/B] Maxwell: 10/9/5 on 33.3%

Game 2 [B]Bird: 19/21/3 on 44.4%[/B] Maxwell: 6/4/2 on 37.5%

Game 3 Bird: 8/13/10 on 27.3% [B]Maxwell: 19/10/0 on 56.3%[/B]

Game 4 Bird: 8/12/7 on 27.3% [B]Maxwell: 24/14/1 on 64.3%[/B]

Game 5 Bird: 12/12/8 on 31.3% [B]Maxwell: 28/15/3 on 76.9%[/B]

Game 6 [B]Bird: 26/13/5 on 55.0%[/B] Maxwell: 19/5/6 on 63.6%

Looking at the overall statline Bird easily bests Maxwell in Game 1, 2, and 6. Even in Game 3 the gap isn't big considering Larry's all-around play with 10 assists and 5 steals. And he only took 11 shots after all. The only Boston win where Maxwell was clearly better is in Game 5 and it was a pivotal game.

Ultimately it's not a travesty or anything. Cedric deserved it but Bird could have easily gotten it and deserved it as well. [B]Bird probably slightly more if you ask me..[/B].[/QUOTE]

Of course. If we were to ask YOU.

BTW, the voting was 6-1 for Maxwell in that Finals.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]In their first four years in the league together, almost every media outlet had the two rated about even...except in the MVP balloting. And again, the reason for that? Magic's reputation for supposedly getting Westhead fired (and I debunked that myth here a while back), and two, KAJ taking votes from Magic. And, you could add Magic's injury in 80-81, which set him back, as well.

In any case, I just spent about five minutes googling Magic, and came up with these three. Take them anyway you want, but at that time, the two were considered near equals...

[url]http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2013/04/wayback-machine-part-viii-1982-complete.html[/url]




[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/09/sports/magic-johnson-learns-lesson.html[/url]




[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1004649/1/index.htm[/url]



And virtually no one had Bird higher from 86-87 on.

But I have never been a fan of opinions or quotes because you can find them until the cows come home.

What we do KNOW, however, that in their post-season play from '80 thru '84, Magic was CLEARLY the better player. And, even in the middle of Bird's MVP "three-peat", Magic was the better post-season player, and clearly better in their H2H Finals. Again, Bird was the FIFTH best player on the floor in the '85 Finals, and was not even the best player on his own team.

And from '87 on, Magic just blew Bird away.

In terms of career, H2H's, rings, post-season play, you name it...Magic was the better of the two.[/QUOTE]

Nowhere in those quotes does anyone say Magic > Bird. In one of the posts they say Magic is either the [U]best all-around player[/U] or #1 A. to Bird. Pippen was considered the best all-around player in the 90's. Was he better than Jordan?

Sorry but those posts aren't any kind of evidence.

[QUOTE]Of course. If we were to ask YOU.

BTW, the voting was 6-1 for Maxwell in that Finals.
[/QUOTE]

Maxwell getting it isn't a travesty by any means but Bird could have won it too. He had great impact overall.

[QUOTE=dankok8]Nowhere in those quotes does anyone say Magic > Bird. In one of the posts they say Magic is either the [U]best all-around player[/U] or #1 A. to Bird. Pippen was considered the best all-around player in the 90's. Was he better than Jordan?

Sorry but those posts aren't any kind of evidence.



Maxwell getting it isn't a travesty by any means but Bird could have won it too. He had great impact overall.[/QUOTE]

Again...a perspective from a supposed "Magic" fan...

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Again...a perspective from a supposed "Magic" fan...[/QUOTE]

Just because I love Magic doesn't mean I have to hate or underrate Bird.

Incidently, for the clowns who somehow believe that Magic was not a capable scorer...

how about this stretch from his 86-87 season...

31
34
25
17 (oh wait...35 minutes, 9 FGAs, and 18 assists)
34
38
46
30
28
4 (29 minutes, 4 FGAs, 18 assists, in a 140-104 win)
32
26
20
25
38
26
31
26
42
19
29
25

Take away those two games in which he obviously didn't even try...

and in those 20 games...

30.5 ppg, (and BTW, he averaged 11 apg in those 20 games, as well.)

[B][COLOR="Green"]1979-80 to 1985-86 Bird > Magic[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]1986-87 to 1991-92 Magic > Bird[/COLOR][/B]

[QUOTE=dankok8]Just because I love Magic doesn't mean I have to hate or underrate Bird.[/QUOTE]

Well, just so you know, even Bill Simmons, who is unabashedly a CELTIC HOMER and BIRD LOVER, (and yes, a complete idiot) has Magic ranked higher than Larry.

That should really tell you something...

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B][COLOR="Green"]1979-80 to 1985-86 Bird > Magic[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]1986-87 to 1991-92 Magic > Bird[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

Not if you include post-season play. Then it swings dramatically into Magic's favor, even in the '80 to '86 seasons...

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Incidently, for the clowns who somehow believe that Magic was not a capable scorer...

how about this stretch from his 86-87 season...

31
34
25
17 (oh wait...35 minutes, 9 FGAs, and 18 assists)
34
38
46
30
28
4 (29 minutes, 4 FGAs, 18 assists, in a 140-104 win)
32
26
20
25
38
26
31
26
42
19
29
25

Take away those two games in which he obviously didn't even try...

and in those 20 games...

30.5 ppg, (and BTW, he averaged 11 apg in those 20 games, as well.)[/QUOTE]

86-87 Magic was MILES BETTER as a half-court scorer than young Magic though. We know 87-90 Magic could light it up almost on Bird level. We're talking about 80-86 Magic here in this thread.

Plus there is rebounding and defense where Bird has a major edge and you seem to completely disregard it.

[QUOTE=dankok8]86-87 Magic was MILES BETTER as a half-court scorer than young Magic though. We know 87-90 Magic could light it up almost on Bird level. We're talking about 80-86 Magic here in this thread.

Plus there is rebounding and defense where Bird has a major edge and you seem to completely disregard it.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm....

The OP says Bird vs Magic...COMPLETE H2H's.

And again, factor in their post-season play...and the scorecard changes dramatically...

Bird in '81 (and barely), '84 (again, Magic was one blown Worthy pass away from winning yet another ring), and a solid "win" in '86.

The rest of their careers?

Magic in '80, '82, '83, '85, '87, '88, '89, '90, and '91...and nearly all of them were pretty solid "wins."

And we KNOW that a YOUNG Magic was capable of 40+ point games, as well. Hell, he not only had a Finals game of 42, and in his ROOKIE season, but even coming back from an injury in '81 (and rusty...as the playoffs would prove)...games of 41 and 33...and earlier in that very limited same season...three more of 30+.

Instead of shot-jacking and ball-hogging, though, Magic concentrated on making his team's better. He certainly proved he could score 30 ppg had he been tasked to do so.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Well, just so you know, even Bill Simmons, who is unabashedly a CELTIC HOMER and BIRD LOVER, (and yes, a complete idiot) has Magic ranked higher than Larry.

That should really tell you something...[/QUOTE]

Magic and Bird race was proclaimed by them, themselves by rings and the media gobbled that up. So when Bird evened up the race it was pretty much even. However, once the Celtics got the second pick in 86 Peter Vescey was sure that Bird had won the battle and coined Larry Bird, "Larry Legend." When Magic was ahead, the whole time before '86 nobody said anything. Then Len Bias died and Magic won again the next year with a team that made all teams before or after look selfish. It was the best team work any team ever exhibited and it wasn't close. The crowning of Magic never happened even when he went three up on Bird (college as well) that I could recall.

The media didn't want to crown Magic. I just don't think Jordan would have been crowned after his second ring if Bird had won the Magic battle. There were other things in play that I don't think people would understand now.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Magic and Bird race was proclaimed by them, themselves by rings and the media gobbled that up. So when Bird evened up the race it was pretty much even. However, once the Celtics got the second pick in 86 Peter Vescey was sure that Bird had won the battle and coined Larry Bird, "Larry Legend." When Magic was ahead, the whole time before '86 nobody said anything. Then Len Bias died and Magic won again the next year with a team that made all teams before or after look selfish. It was the best team work any team ever exhibited and it wasn't close. The crowning of Magic never happened even when he went three up on Bird (college as well) that I could recall.

The media didn't want to crown Magic. I just don't think Jordan would have been crowned after his second ring if Bird had won the Magic battle. There were other things in play that I don't think people would understand now.[/QUOTE]

I vividly recall the almost daily articles which had the two almost evenly divided in the early 80's. Again, Magic's injury in '81, and his coach's subsequent firing really hurt him in the public perception. But, I think the consensus was that the two were basically even, until Bird had his "three-peat" MVPs.

After that, even Bird, himself, conceded that Magic was the better player. And the Bird fans love to mention his injuries, but it was clearly evident, even in the 87-88, which was arguably Bird's greatest season, that Magic was already ranked ahead of him. And then when Bird folded his tent against the Pistons in the playoffs, and Magic dominated that same Piston team in the Finals...well, Bird was a dot in Magic's rear-view mirror from that point on.

If anything...it was CLOSE between '80 and '86, and after that, a runaway for Magic.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Not if you include post-season play. Then it swings dramatically into Magic's favor, even in the '80 to '86 seasons...[/QUOTE]

[B]Not When Kareem is the Best Player & Captain in the Lakers 79-85.

Lets Not Forget McHale Was a Sixthman 80-85.[/B]

[QUOTE=dankok8]86-87 Magic was MILES BETTER as a half-court scorer than young Magic though. We know 87-90 Magic could light it up almost on Bird level. We're talking about 80-86 Magic here in this thread.

Plus there is rebounding and defense where Bird has a major edge and you seem to completely disregard it.[/QUOTE]

Rebounding was just a matter of where they were on the court. Magic was a better offensive rebounder the first four years. Bird was the better defensive rebounder because PF's back then stayed around the basket and few were skilled scorers.

Lets give Bird defense*. Magic's edge on control of the game equaled that out.

Magic was the better passer. Was more efficient. And was more consistent.


[SIZE="1"][I]*Bird got 2nd team all defense one year over Cedric Maxwell who guarded his man very well, and then in '84 Bird took McHales spot on the second team - remind you McHale guarded Bird's counterpart very well as did Maxwell before him. Not unlike some of Kobe's horrific choices to all defensive teams decades later, Bird had them and it was disrespectful to Maxwell and McHale.[/I][/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Not When Kareem is the Best Player & Captain in the Lakers 79-85.

Lets Not Forget McHale Was a Sixthman 80-85.[/B][/QUOTE]

Kareem was arguably LA's best player in '80 (and, again, when he was out in game six of the Finals, Magic put up a 42-15-7 game.)

He was their best player in '81, when Magic missed 45 games.

But, from that point on, it was ALL Magic. And, again, take a look at their career games in which they played without the other. Magic had a FAR better record without Kareem, than the other way around.

And while Kareem was still an exceptional offensive player from '82-'86 (and of course, much of it was because of MAGIC BTW), we KNOW that Magic was certainly capable of having scored much more in those seasons.

And, don't forget, the REAL LEADER of those '80's Lakers teams was MAGIC. From DAY ONE.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]However, once the Celtics got the second pick in 86 Peter Vescey was sure that Bird had won the battle and coined Larry Bird, "Larry Legend." [/QUOTE]

That was as late as 1986? That surprises me.

Supposedly, Vescey also came up with Air Jordan.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Kareem was arguably LA's best player in '80 (and, again, when he was out in game six of the Finals, Magic put up a 42-15-7 game.)

He was their best player in '81, when Magic missed 45 games.

But, from that point on, it was [B][U]ALL Magic[/U][/B] :no: . And, again, take a look at their career games in which they played without the other. Magic had a FAR better record without Kareem, than the other way around.

And while Kareem was still an exceptional offensive player from '82-'86 (and of course, much of it was because of MAGIC BTW), we KNOW that Magic was certainly capable of having scored much more in those seasons.

And, don't forget, the REAL LEADER of those '80's Lakers teams was MAGIC. From DAY ONE.[/QUOTE]

[B]:no: Why Wasn

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Not When Kareem is the Best Player & Captain in the Lakers 79-85.

Lets Not Forget McHale Was a Sixthman [B]80-85[/B].[/B][/QUOTE]
You haven't been reading the post... Magic was the franchise player on the team (management gave it to him, the coaches and players knew it. Only people in denial couldn't see it). Magic had total control of the team and was the decision maker and coach on the floor. If you think it was Kareem's team you never seen them play. The team missed Magic more than it missed Kareem as seen by their record without one of the players. Magic could fill in for Kareem and add to Kareem's role at the most important of times.

From '81 on McHale was getting 29 minutes per game sharing duties with Maxwell guarding Bird's man. In two of the three finals in the time period you mentioned '85 and '81, two out of the three finals Bird wasn't their best player - one was a sixth man and the other never had a shot at an allstar selection if 10 forwards caught a bad flu.

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]That was as late as 1986? That surprises me.

Supposedly, Vescey also came up with Air Jordan.[/QUOTE]

No Vescey was in his prime when Jordan got drafted. His every other day post columns were probably synchronized with Jordan but he was around for awhile before that.

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]:no: Why Wasn

[B]Nobody is saying that Magic wasn

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]:no: Why Wasn

[QUOTE=Pointguard]No Vescey was in his prime when Jordan got drafted. His every other day post columns were probably synchronized with Jordan but he was around for awhile before that.[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean Vescey. Given how automatically you think of the nickname Larry Legend when you think of Bird these days, I was surprised it wasn't thought of until 1996.

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B][COLOR="Green"]1979-80 to 1985-86 Bird > Magic[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]1986-87 to 1991-92 Magic > Bird[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

More like...

80 Magic > Bird
81 Bird > Magic
82 Magic > Bird
83-86 Bird > Magic
87 Magic > Bird
88 Bird > Magic
89-91 Magic > Bird

They're tied as players, but Magic has a bit more in the way of accolades. He was also elite from year one to year twelve. Bird's skill was always elite, but his body wasn't past 32.

I think some of you in this discussion is trying [B]way too hard[/B] to convince others that you are right, although you seem to forget that these debates are always subjective, [B]there is no final answer[/B]. You can talk all you want, but your opinion won't be more worth than anyone else's. If someone says Bird is a better player than Magic, you simply have to accept that opinion, especially since the general consensus is that it is relatively close between the two players anyway.

I for one have Magic over Bird career wise, but I find Bird's peak to be the most impressive out of the two for sure. The fact that he managed to win three straight MVPs while Magic was also in his prime speaks volumes of his play.

Look at those head 2 head finals numbers:applause:

Magic was not Lakers leader/main man/best player till 87 so it's not fair to compare Magic to Boston's go to guy.

Jlauber spreading his disease everywhere... :facepalm

Btw good job on making everybody hate Wilt. :applause:

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]:no: Why Wasn

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Bird was considered the greater player from '84 thru '86.

Magic was hurt in the MVP voting by two things. One, Kareem was taking votes from him, and two, his 80-81 regular season.

But, if you include post-season play, Magic was easily the better the player from '80 thru '83.

And then in the '85 Finals, Bird was the only the FIFTH best player on the floor in that series, and wasn't even the best player on his own team.

The reality was, Magic was a considerably better post-season player, outplayed Bird in their post-season series, and overall, had a greater career. Plain-and-simple.[/QUOTE]

The one thing where you are clearly wrong is Magic being the better player from 80 thru 83. Magic won the fmvp his first year due to one really all-time great game but kareem was and should have been the mvp.

Bird was by almost all measure the better player from 80 to 87. MVP votes ROY votes public perception all favored Bird and it wasn't even close.

When you are a all time great and you get drafted by a team with a all time great center, you should have a great career. Even when KAJ got older and it became Magic's team, he could still give you dominate moments in games and series that made a hugh impact.

[QUOTE=navy]Why do people say Bird was better than Magic?[/QUOTE]

Because they watched them both play.

[QUOTE=colts19]The one thing where you are clearly wrong is Magic being the better player from 80 thru 83. Magic won the fmvp his first year due to one really all-time great game but kareem was and should have been the mvp.

Bird was by almost all measure the better player from 80 to 87. MVP votes ROY votes public perception all favored Bird and it wasn't even close.

When you are a all time great and you get drafted by a team with a all time great center, you should have a great career. Even when KAJ got older and it became Magic's team, he could still give you dominate moments in games and series that made a hugh impact.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely NOT true. Not even close.

From '80 thru '83, Magic was CLEARLY the better POST-SEASON player. Bird repeatedly CHOKED in those post-seasons, while Magic was LEADING his team to THREE Finals, TWO titles, and TWO FMVPs. Oh, and he could carry a team to a clinching game win without Kareem, too.

I have said that Bird's PEAK was from '84-'86. Arguably a top-5 peak. However, Magic's PEAK, from '87 thru '89, was, worst case, VERY close. In fact, Magic outplayed Bird in the '85 Finals, while in Magic's Peak, he wiped the floor with Bird in '87.

Then, Bird's PRIME was from '84-'88. Magic's was from '85-'90. Now, Magic starts to pull away here. Even in MVPs, but Magic held a 4-3 edge in Finals, and a 3-2 edge in rings. And he was, quite simply, the better player.

Then, go to extended primes. Bird from '82-'88, while Magic's was from '85-'91. Magic just continues to pull away in every category at that point. Finally...CAREERs. Magic's '80-'91 just blows away Bird's '80-'92. Plain-and-simple. Magic was MUCH better in Bird's early career, than Bird was in Magic's later career.

Better H2H, better in post-season, better career.

Magic > Bird.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Absolutely NOT true. Not even close.

From '80 thru '83, Magic was CLEARLY the better POST-SEASON player. Bird repeatedly CHOKED in those post-seasons, while Magic was LEADING his team to THREE Finals, TWO titles, and TWO FMVPs. Oh, and he could carry a team to a clinching game win without Kareem, too.

I have said that Bird's PEAK was from '84-'86. Arguably a top-5 peak. However, Magic's PEAK, from '87 thru '89, was, worst case, VERY close. In fact, Magic outplayed Bird in the '85 Finals, while in Magic's Peak, he wiped the floor with Bird in '87.

Then, Bird's PRIME was from '84-'88. Magic's was from '85-'90. Now, Magic starts to pull away here. Even in MVPs, but Magic held a 4-3 edge in Finals, and a 3-2 edge in rings. And he was, quite simply, the better player.

Then, go to extended primes. Bird from '82-'88, while Magic's was from '85-'91. Magic just continues to pull away in every category at that point. Finally...CAREERs. Magic's '80-'91 just blows away Bird's '80-'92. Plain-and-simple. Magic was MUCH better in Bird's early career, than Bird was in Magic's later career.

Better H2H, better in post-season, better career.

Magic > Bird.[/QUOTE]

Magic had the better career, I agree. It was due to injuries to Bird. Once again you can have your opinion. The fact is at the time the clear consensus was that bird was the better player. ROY 63 to 3, MVP votes the first seven years Bird by a solar system.

[QUOTE=colts19]Magic had the better career, I agree. It was due to injuries to Bird. Once again you can have your opinion. The fact is at the time the clear consensus was that bird was the better player. ROY 63 to 3, MVP votes the first seven years Bird by a solar system.[/QUOTE]

Both great players. And, I do respect your opinions.

:cheers:

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Absolutely NOT true. Not even close.

From '80 thru '83, Magic was CLEARLY the better POST-SEASON player. Bird repeatedly CHOKED in those post-seasons, while Magic was LEADING his team to THREE Finals, TWO titles, and TWO FMVPs. Oh, and he could carry a team to a clinching game win without Kareem, too.

I have said that Bird's PEAK was from '84-'86. Arguably a top-5 peak. However, Magic's PEAK, from '87 thru '89, was, worst case, VERY close. In fact, Magic outplayed Bird in the '85 Finals, while in Magic's Peak, he wiped the floor with Bird in '87.

Then, Bird's PRIME was from '84-'88. Magic's was from '85-'90. Now, Magic starts to pull away here. Even in MVPs, but Magic held a 4-3 edge in Finals, and a 3-2 edge in rings. And he was, quite simply, the better player.

Then, go to extended primes. Bird from '82-'88, while Magic's was from '85-'91. Magic just continues to pull away in every category at that point. Finally...CAREERs. Magic's '80-'91 just blows away Bird's '80-'92. Plain-and-simple. Magic was MUCH better in Bird's early career, than Bird was in Magic's later career.

Better H2H, better in post-season, better career.

Magic > Bird.[/QUOTE]

Laz, I just can't take you seriously as being unbiased in this argument if you maintain that "Bird repeatedly choked" in the post-season between '80 and '83.

The fact remains that the Celtics simply do not win the '81 title without Larry Bird, who carried them through the Philly series and came up big when it mattered most against Houston in the Finals.

This is documented in print, on video, and by those who were there to witness it.

So Chris bosh is better than pre-magic kareem yet bran was credited for the rings coz he made bosh a scrub while kareem a superstar again. LOL at these stat nerds. The fact is, kareem is contemplating retirement until Magic came to save his overrated ass. The only time kareem has the argument for being the man is his first ring in lakers. But we all knew that pure pgs can prolong the careers of scorers. JUst ask malone. And since kareems stats before magic is not anymore man-worthy then clearly its magics team from the get go.

[QUOTE=colts19]Magic had the better career, I agree. It was due to injuries to Bird. Once again you can have your opinion. The fact is at the time the clear consensus was that bird was the better player. ROY 63 to 3, MVP votes the first seven years Bird by a solar system.[/QUOTE]Bird is 3 years older than Magic, of course he was better earlier on. Magic didn't hit his prime until the late 80's when he was 27+ like most players. The only years where both of their primes collided were '87 and '88 and Magic won a ring in both seasons with an MVP in the former (and beating Bird's team in the finals while outplaying him significantly).

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]I think it's pretty clear, that while both the 80's Lakers, and Celtics were stacked ... that overall Bird was working with less individual star talent. Also, he faced much tougher competition in his own conference. IMO he's the tougher, better basketball player.

Bird is even more versatile defensively across eras. Today he'd be a stretch PF. Who would Magic be able to guard?

Great playmaker, quarterback and passer while being ball dominant. Bird had great assist numbers considering he was playing out of the post, or on the wing.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I'm a Magic fan, but I've always considered Bird more skillfull, and an overall BETTER basketball player. Hands down. Magic, suffice to say, took advantage of Bird's injuries (as he should have) and never looked back.

In a vacuum, they're about equal in the impact department, but Bird's intangibles i.e. his clutch play and skills give him the clear edge.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Agreed. I'm a Magic fan, but I've always considered Bird more skillfull, and an overall BETTER basketball player. Hands down. Magic, suffice to say, took advantage of Bird's injuries (as he should have) and never looked back.

In a vacuum, they're about equal in the impact department, but Bird's intangibles i.e. his clutch play and skills give him the clear edge.[/QUOTE]
:cheers:

Skills? Clutch play?

Magic was a better playoff performer, he was more versatile because of his ballhandling/speed/size combo that allowed him to play more roles/positions. He was a bigger matchup problem due to said versatility. He was more efficient. He could make an impact on D when needed, and even led the league in steals. Bird's got him in shooting but Magic was more efficient from the field, and could score in other ways(he could attack the paint in a way Bird couldn't).