The Wilt Chamberlain Offensive Scouting Report Project Thread:

Okay here's what I've got for Left Block:

Left block scoring 87 FGM on film, in this order (this accounts for duplicate footage of the same plays):
*Quick Baseline Spins/Drives (6) 6.9% of Left Block FGM
*Ball fake up and unders (3) 3.4% of Left Block FGM
*Bulldozing Drop steps (5) 5.7% of Left Block FGM
*Inside Step Finger Rolls (3) 3.4% of Left Block FGM
*Clear Path Drop Steps (due to fronted post) (14) 16.1% of Left Block FGM
*Outside Step Finger Rolls (19) 21.8% of Left Block FGM
*Outside Step Jump Hook shot (1) 1.2% of Left Block FGM
*Fall away Jump shots (36) 41.4% of Left Block FGM

Please correct me if my nomenclature/descriptive terms can be improved.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Okay here's what I've got for Left Block:

Left block scoring 87 FGM on film
*Quick Baseline Spins/Drives (6) 6.9% of Left Block FGM
*Ball fake up and unders (3) 3.4% of Left Block FGM
*Bulldozing Drop steps (5) 5.7% of Left Block FGM
*Inside Step Finger Rolls (3) 3.4% of Left Block FGM
*Clear Path Drop Steps due to fronted post (14) 16.1% of Left Block FGM
*Outside Step Finger Roll (19) 21.8% of Left Block FGM
*Outside Step Jump Hook shot (1) 1.2% of Left Block FGM
*Fall away Jump shots (36) 41.4% of Left Block FGM

Please correct me if my nomenclature/descriptive terms can be improved.[/QUOTE]
Hm well the way I figure:

1) Generally when someone leaves the post-up, you'll hear they went baseline or to the middle.

2) Now, I'm not an authority, but can we call a finger roll itself a post move? Or just a shot type? I'd categorize the finger rolls by the move used to get the shot off, and group them in with drop steps or spin moves.

3) Speaking of drop steps and spin moves, how are we drawing the distinction? They look very similar.

4) Also, when you say inside do you mean towards the paint? Or towards the baseline?

Based on my understanding of your categories:

[QUOTE=fpliii]Hm well the way I figure:

1) Generally when someone leaves the post-up, you'll hear they went baseline or to the middle.

2) Now, I'm not an authority, but can we call a finger roll itself a post move? Or just a shot type? I'd categorize the finger rolls by the move used to get the shot off, and group them in with drop steps or spin moves.

3) Speaking of drop steps and spin moves, how are we drawing the distinction? They look very similar.

4) Also, when you say inside do you mean towards the paint? Or towards the baseline?

Based on my understanding of your categories:

• baseline spins
• up and unders (the fake is understood, I don't think you need to say it)
• drop steps to the middle
• (I'd eliminated inside finger rolls and group them into middle drop steps, though maybe those can be combined)
• (I don't quite understand this category "Clear Path Drop Steps due to fronted post", can you elaborate or show a sample?)
• spins/steps to the baseline (I have trouble with this distinction as I said above)
• (I'd group this in with spins to the baseline)
• (I'd separate fadeaways into two categories depending on whether he turns over his left shoulder or right)

Just brainstorming, apologies if this makes little sense.[/QUOTE]

to the baseline or middle is how i was referring to 'inside' or 'outside' - thanks for pointing out the better terminology

a finger roll is just a finishing move not a post move, the post move would be what got Wilt into position to release the finger roll
(so I guess that would be a drop step to the middle... identical move used to get him into position for his 1 jump hook as well). Question though, is it different if he turns to the middle to release a finger roll than it is if he turns toward the middle around his defender but gets himself so close to the basket so as to be able to dunk? Is there a critical difference?

starting at 6:21 i lumped a series of 14 clips together of Wilt being defended by players fronting the post, I take it all of those would count as baseline drop steps?

Maybe watch the left block sequence again and let me know what your suggestions are for a better categorization and organization of the clips? Now's the time for me to make changes, I dont' want to make the video go public until it is ready and easy to understand. I will be able to duplicate the format for the right block.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]to the baseline or middle is how i was referring to 'inside' or 'outside' - thanks for pointing out the better terminology

a finger roll is just a finishing move not a post move, the post move would be what got Wilt into position to release the finger roll
(so I guess that would be a drop step to the middle... identical move used to get him into position for his 1 jump hook as well). [B]Question though, is it different if he turns to the middle to release a finger roll than it is if he turns toward the middle around his defender but gets himself so close to the basket so as to be able to dunk? Is there a critical difference? [/B]

starting at 6:21 i lumped a series of 14 clips together of Wilt being defended by players fronting the post, I take it all of those would count as baseline drop steps?

Maybe watch the left block sequence again and let me know what your suggestions are for a better categorization and organization of the clips? Now's the time for me to make changes, I dont' want to make the video go public until it is ready and easy to understand. I will be able to duplicate the format for the right block.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure about that. I think one might be considered the spin move, the other might be a drop step.

6:19 Okay, first play I'd say wasn't a post up. Wilt already got perfect position, so he won the battle beforehand.

6:24 I'm not sure about this. This is actually a very impressive play. Wilt seems to gather and roll baseline right into the defender and finished. It looks like he started with the drop step (when he gathers), though he launched off of two feet. Tough call.

6:26 Much like the first one, Wilt had already beaten his defender at this point I think (not 100% sure). If not, it would be a baseline drop step.

6:30 He already had won position here, but he used a baseline drop step.

6:34 Another drop step.

6:37 I don't think this was a post up, already had position.

6:42 Already had position, probably not a post up.

6:48 Definitely a drop step.

6:57 Already beat the defender, but the move was a drop step.

6:59 Drop step.

7:03 This is another tough play. We can't see his feet, but I think it's a drop step (impressively through, over the defender instead of around).

7:06 Nice baseline drop step.

7:08 Now this one I'm not sure about. There was no step taken as far as I can tell, but maybe I'm wrong. Spin move?

7:12 Can't tell, might also be a spin move.

For the last two, I'm not sure. The way I figure:

1) Drop step means you take a long step, lower center of gravity (rotation near the hip), maybe dribble to gather, and go right up.

2) With the spin move, the rotation is with the upper body instead. It's more of a quick, sweeping motion instead of a deliberate lunge toward the basket.

Again, I'm by no means an authority on this, hope it helps somewhat. I picked up a copy of Pete Newell's playing big, maybe I'll be able to better comment when I've had a chance to read it (though it might be too late then).

BTW I'm home now, do you still need counts on the other sections (it seems you've already figured counted the left block plays)?

[QUOTE=fpliii]I'm not sure about that. I think one might be considered the spin move, the other might be a drop step.

6:19 Okay, first play I'd say wasn't a post up. Wilt already got perfect position, so he won the battle beforehand.

6:24 I'm not sure about this. This is actually a very impressive play. Wilt seems to gather and roll baseline right into the defender and finished. It looks like he started with the drop step (when he gathers), though he launched off of two feet. Tough call.

6:26 Much like the first one, Wilt had already beaten his defender at this point I think (not 100% sure). If not, it would be a baseline drop step.

6:30 He already had won position here, but he used a baseline drop step.

6:34 Another drop step.

6:37 I don't think this was a post up, already had position.

6:42 Already had position, probably not a post up.

6:48 Definitely a drop step.

6:57 Already beat the defender, but the move was a drop step.

6:59 Drop step.

7:03 This is another tough play. We can't see his feet, but I think it's a drop step (impressively through, over the defender instead of around).

7:06 Nice baseline drop step.

7:08 Now this one I'm not sure about. There was no step taken as far as I can tell, but maybe I'm wrong. Spin move?

7:12 Can't tell, might also be a spin move.

For the last two, I'm not sure. The way I figure:

1) Drop step means you take a long step, lower center of gravity (rotation near the hip), maybe dribble to gather, and go right up.

2) With the spin move, the rotation is with the upper body instead. It's more of a quick, sweeping motion instead of a deliberate lunge toward the basket.

Again, I'm by no means an authority on this, hope it helps somewhat. I picked up a copy of Pete Newell's playing big, maybe I'll be able to better comment when I've had a chance to read it (though it might be too late then).

BTW I'm home now, do you still need counts on the other sections (it seems you've already figured counted the left block plays)?[/QUOTE]
thanks for your input, it is appreciated, yes I counted the left block plays if you'd like and have time you can count any of the other sections, watch out for duplicate plays from different camera angles there are a few

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]thanks for your input, it is appreciated, yes I counted the left block plays if you'd like and have time you can count any of the other sections, watch out for duplicate plays from different camera angles there are a few[/QUOTE]
Sure thing.

BTW I think those last two are indeed drop steps after a rewatch.

For "Lobs, Deep catches and Transition scoring" (11:14-15:42) I counted 59. Maybe someone wants to double-check that.

"Offensive Rebound Scoring" (15:44) I got 69. Again, could be off, so maybe someone should check my count.

Excellent, thank you fpliii I may double check the counts at some point when I'm closer to the end but it's helpful to have a preliminary count

I was thinking about using this as a guide:
[url]http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/fundamentals/postplay.html[/url]

[B]Pivots:[/B]

Front Pivot
Inside Pivot
Drop Step
Step Through
Sweep

[B]Shot Types:[/B]

Layup
Jump Shot
Jump Hook

So Wilt's left block finger roll where he crab dribbles his way into the middle would be considered a Drop Step Layup, from the middle (A Crab Dribble from my understanding is a type of drop step), make sense? His 3 Drop Step Layups from the baseline are the same move, he just turned in towards the baseline as opposed to out in the middle. This would mean his Drop Step Dunks fall under the same category, he just got deeper position is the only difference. All his Fall Aways are Front Pivot Jump Shots

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Excellent, thank you fpliii I may double check the counts at some point when I'm closer to the end but it's helpful to have a preliminary count

I was thinking about using this as a guide:
[url]http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/fundamentals/postplay.html[/url]

[B]Pivots:[/B]

Front Pivot
Inside Pivot
Drop Step
Step Through
Sweep

[B]Shot Types:[/B]

Layup
Jump Shot
Jump Hook

So Wilt's left block finger roll where he crab dribbles his way into the middle would be considered a Drop Step Layup (A Crab Dribble from my understanding is a type of drop step), make sense? This would mean his Drop Step Dunks fall under the same category of move, he just got deeper position is the only difference. All his Fall Aways are Front Pivot Jump Shots[/QUOTE]
Makes some sense but I'm not very familiar with the terminology of the pivots to be perfectly honest. This is very interesting though:

[QUOTE]Here's an explanation of some of the pivots:

All pivots start with your back to the basket and you are on the right block. Your feet are described as the pivot foot and the swing foot.

Basic Pivots

DROP STEP - Swing foot steps in a direct line to the front of the rim.

INSIDE PIVOT - Swing foot steps BACKWARD and scribes a 180 degree arc such that when you re-plant the foot you have turned completely and you are facing the basket.

FRONT PIVOT - Swing foot steps FORWARD and scribes a 180 degree arc such that when you re-plant the foot you have turned completely and you are facing the basket.

Counters - Second pivots to counter defense of the basic pivot

STEP THROUGH - After making an inside or front pivot and you are faced up and square to the to the basket, draw an imaginery line from your pivot foot to the front of the rim. Your swing foot "steps through" that line and toward the basket (think of having your legs crossed)

SWEEP - After making any pivot, your swing foot immediately steps on its own side to the basket (if your left foot is the pivot foot, your right foot steps to the right and to the basket). The name actually comes from the ball action being swept through your stance to get it out infront of your swing foot so you can make a long dribble to the basket.[/QUOTE]
My one concern is that the pivots seem to describe footwork specifically, but not necessarily the moves performed. At the moment, a lot of this shit is over my head technically-speaking. If you can understand it though, go for it. If not, you can always work on the other sections and finish the right/left block last.

idk

finished up the right block section last night - lots of missing audio so apologies I'm currently re-organizing a lot of the audio clips and have taken a lot of them out or moved them temporarily

[url]http://youtu.be/EAcmDUtYcb8?t=11m28s[/url]

anyone want to get a preliminary count?

This leaves only the 2 man game section to be finished as far as his NBA footage is concered (backdoor points, P&R, give and go)

*EDIT* I think I counted 69, worth double checking

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]finished up the right block section last night - lots of missing audio so apologies I'm currently re-organizing a lot of the audio clips and have taken a lot of them out or moved them temporarily

[url]http://youtu.be/EAcmDUtYcb8?t=11m28s[/url]

anyone want to get a preliminary count?

This leaves only the 2 man game section to be finished as far as his NBA footage is concered (backdoor points, P&R, give and go)

*EDIT* I think I counted 69, worth double checking[/QUOTE]
:bowdown: :bowdown:

Just giving it a look now. The first few plays are DEFINITE spin moves (I know we weren't sure about some on the left block). I counted 67 plays, I could be wrong though.

That move on Reed is great, and it seems the next couple of plays are similar, so it wasn't a one-time thing.

Nice to see a younger Russell (sans goatee I believe) at one point. That must've been very early footage of Wilt?

BTW those Bullets jerseys. :bowdown:

EDIT: Also worth noting that Wilt saw a lot more doubles on the right block, I guess opponents felt they needed help on the finger roll off of his right shoulder (at least a few were blind shots it seems, though it's hard to tell).

[QUOTE=fpliii]:bowdown: :bowdown:

Just giving it a look now. The first few plays are DEFINITE spin moves (I know we weren't sure about some on the left block). I counted 67 plays, I could be wrong though.

That move on Reed is great, and it seems the next couple of plays are similar, so it wasn't a one-time thing.

Nice to see a younger Russell (sans goatee I believe) at one point. That must've been very early footage of Wilt?

BTW those Bullets jerseys. :bowdown:

EDIT: Also worth noting that Wilt saw a lot more doubles on the right block, I guess opponents felt they needed help on the finger roll off of his right shoulder (at least a few were blind shots it seems, though it's hard to tell).[/QUOTE]
I'll use your 67, thanks

We are currently right at about 2% of his known career field goals made, if (I'm totally guessing here) we have about 60 or so '2 person game' buckets, than we might be looking at 2.4% of Wilt's career NBA field goals captured on film.

[QUOTE=fpliii]:bowdown: :bowdown:

Just giving it a look now. The first few plays are DEFINITE spin moves (I know we weren't sure about some on the left block). I counted 67 plays, I could be wrong though.

That move on Reed is great, and it seems the next couple of plays are similar, so it wasn't a one-time thing.

Nice to see a younger Russell (sans goatee I believe) at one point. That must've been very early footage of Wilt?

BTW those Bullets jerseys. :bowdown:

EDIT: Also worth noting that Wilt saw a lot more doubles on the right block, I guess opponents felt they needed help on the finger roll off of his right shoulder (at least a few were blind shots it seems, though it's hard to tell).[/QUOTE]

Just wanted to say that you're a great contributor to this board and your passion is awesome.

[QUOTE=millwad]Just wanted to say that you're a great contributor to this board and your passion is awesome.[/QUOTE]
:cheers:

Finished a rough draft of everything (NBA scoring only), video is 35 minutes long, rendering now will be uploaded by some time tomorrow

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Finished a rough draft of everything (NBA scoring only), video is 35 minutes long, rendering now will be uploaded by some time tomorrow[/QUOTE]
:bowdown:

I guarantee you the video will not be finished uploading and rendering for another 3 or 4 hours but it is uploading as we speak and I've got a final count of approximately 335 field goals, or 2.36% of his NBA career field goals

Another way of looking that is, we have approximately 28 games worth of his baskets captured on film. Check back on this thread tomorrow and the video should be finished uploading and ready to analyze.

It's up.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Busy at work today but I'll watch when I get home.

Watched up to 19:50 during my break, I'll try to catch the rest later. Good shit. Watching the video gives you an idea of how Wilt looked to score, and what his different moves/shots were.

bump

[QUOTE=jlip]It's up.

:applause: :applause: :applause:[/QUOTE]


Where's the link? :coleman:

[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]Where's the link? :coleman:[/QUOTE]
OP

:bowdown:

Excellent!

And, as a sidenote, the background commentaries are as brilliant as the footage.

I would still suggest adding Wilt's college scoring footage, at least his 10-15 ft shots, to this mix. Why? Because, there is just only a tiny fraction of Chamberlain's early NBA footage available, and I am convinced that his 60-63 NBA offense was much more similar to his college offense. And again, we have respected opinions claiming that Wilt came into the league with a very good outside game (which would somewhat explain his lower overall efficiency, and also his ability to score more.)

I realize that there is a TON of work that goes into these productions, but perhaps at some point, you can give us around a 30 minute mix of his all-around dominance, including college footage (with his shooting, shot-blocking, and running the floor.) And again, if you could add in those sensational commentaries, I suspect that it would be yet another mix that might go viral.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[B]Just checked some of the video, great stuff yet again :applause: [/B]

Wow. :applause:

Great work CavsFTW, keep it up.

[QUOTE=Demitri98]Wow. :applause:

Great work CavsFTW, keep it up.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for checking it out :cheers:

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Thanks for checking it out :cheers:[/QUOTE]
OT - Were you able to find much color footage of Oscar from his Cinci days for your mix? Though I guess it's not a huge deal since he was perhaps still in his prime when he first went to Milwaukee (albeit the tail end, someone can correct me if I'm wrong), since from my understanding he didn't have a devastating injury.

[QUOTE=fpliii]OT - Were you able to find much color footage of Oscar from his Cinci days for your mix? Though I guess it's not a huge deal since he was perhaps still in his prime when he first went to Milwaukee (albeit the tail end, someone can correct me if I'm wrong), since from my understanding he didn't have a devastating injury.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it matters whether or not it's early or later career footage of him when it comes to assessing his game, like Wilt he's going to use the same moves and think the same way regardless of how old he is, that said, I have plenty of both

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]I don't think it matters whether or not it's early or later career footage of him when it comes to assessing his game, like Wilt he's going to use the same moves and think the same way regardless of how old he is, that said, I have plenty of both[/QUOTE]
:cheers:

Adding all the High School, NCAA, and Globetrotter baskets to a 2nd version of this video that will encompasses all his known field goals on film.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Adding all the High School, NCAA, and Globetrotter baskets to a 2nd version of this video that will encompasses all his known field goals on film.[/QUOTE]

Excellent. His college footage was certainly more representative of his early NBA career. As I have said several times, those that actually saw Chamberlain in the early 60's, have claimed that he had a good outside game.

[QUOTE] Carl Braun said, "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense]. With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's. He hit on all those jumpers."
"[B]Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant.[/B] He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman. A View from the Bench. P.70
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Adding all the High School, NCAA, and Globetrotter baskets to a 2nd version of this video that will encompasses all his known field goals on film.[/QUOTE]
:cheers:

Just another suggestion.

Maybe a a "mixed bag" of solid Chamberlain highlights, but in sections. Say, a section with Chamberlain's blocks (or defense in general); then another section with his great passing; then a section with his dominating inside post game; and finally a section devoted to his all-around offensive skills, including that college footage.

And perhaps, a section involving his play against the other "greats", like Russell, Bellamy, Thurmond, Kareem, Reed, Lanier, and even Gilmore.

You could still make it around a 30 minute video, but reduce some of the more duplicated efforts.

how about one of Iceman Gervin or Havlicek or Moses Malone or (good luck finding anything at all) Dan Issel or Mel Daniels?
How about one of another all-time great, Earl the Pearl? Or my all-time favorite player Walt Frazier? Or even of them together, the famed and ever-glorious Rolls Royce Backcourt?

Better still how about a montage of those Knicks, who rampaged over the league from '69 to '74, going to 4 straight Finals and winning two?

Willis "The Captain" Reed - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Walt "Clyde" Frazier - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Earl "the Pearl" Monroe - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Dave "Diamond Dave" Debusschere - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Jerry Lucas - Top 50, Hall of Fame
Dollar Bill Bradley - Hall of Fame
Red Holzman, coach - Top 10 Coach, Hall of Fame

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Okay so after I added all the Overbrook, Kutchers, Kansas, and Globetrotter footage several new moves are added to Wilt's repertoire that did not show up in the NBA footage, and a LOT more relative volume of deep catches and transition baskets were added... if the final composition is any indication of how Wilt played during his scoring years in the NBA than holy shit. His shots and spins came from either shoulder on his jump shot and spin moves when he was younger given the addition of the footage of him, and on the right block he even shot from the baseline just as he did from the left block which the limited amount of NBA footage did not reveal. And he also did face up jump shots with free throw line extended range. The addition of this footage now matches the descriptions of what others who watched Wilt play had mentioned, they said my NBA mix lacked the versatility of his shooting ability from his younger NBA years - so he must have been using those types of shots in his first few NBA seasons.

Expect to see this up some time tomorrow. 45 minutes in length, long yes but then again so are the best Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal mixes that I've watched on Youtube.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Okay so after I added all the Overbrook, Kutchers, Kansas, and Globetrotter footage several new moves are added to Wilt's repertoire that did not show up in the NBA footage, and a LOT more relative volume of deep catches and transition baskets were added... if the final composition is any indication of how Wilt played during his scoring years in the NBA than holy shit. His shots and spins came from either shoulder on his jump shot and spin moves when he was younger given the addition of the footage of him, and on the right block he even shot from the baseline just as he did from the left block which the limited amount of NBA footage did not reveal. And he also did face up jump shots with free throw line extended range. The addition of this footage now matches the descriptions of what others who watched Wilt play had mentioned, they said my NBA mix lacked the versatility of his shooting ability from his younger NBA years - so he must have been using those types of shots in his first few NBA seasons.

Expect to see this up some time tomorrow. 45 minutes in length, long yes but then again so are the best Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal mixes that I've watched on Youtube.[/QUOTE]
:applause: