Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen's as a leader

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Jordan also would say Pippen was the best player on the team. It is funny how MJ fans invoke Pippen quotes on MJ but ignore the opposite. Magic? MJ is the one who compared Pippen to Magic and Bird--and it was done in a private interview if I recall correctly, not a public statement to pump up Pippen.

juju, maybe I confused you with another MJ stan.



He was a shell of himself after the 98' back injury-which came on top of various other injuries in the preceding year, i.e. foot, neck. He was 33 with the mileage of a 35-36 year old when you count his deep playoff runs and his 2 Olympics.

Why do MJ fans dwell on one year in Houston and ignore four years in Portland? He did not fit in Houston's offense where they made him a spot up shooter a la Bosh in Miami. That did not suit his game. He did in fact lead a team to Game 7 of the WCF--and that team probably came within minutes of a ring.

MJ fans say the Wizards years should not even be spoken of. So why dwell on Houston?[/QUOTE]
I'm not a MJ Stan first of all. I just think Mj is the Goat. Ask your friend 97 bulls who defends Pippen with him when it's not a agenda to downgrade MJ. I defend Pippen all the time, just not against someone like you who clearly has a agenda to downgrade MJ. Like I said before They were Co captains and one was a second fiddle. All facts. You don't like Facts or context. Just like the other thread when you making it seem 88 Pippen wasn't a role player and I had to constantly call you out for you to admit it.:lol Mj1984-98 best player on the Bulls Fact:applause:

I don't have an "agenda." I have various biases. We all do.

[QUOTE]I'm not a MJ Stan[/QUOTE]

:coleman:

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Jordan also would say Pippen was the best player on the team. It is funny how MJ fans invoke Pippen quotes on MJ but ignore the opposite. Magic? MJ is the one who compared Pippen to Magic and Bird--and it was done in a private interview if I recall correctly, not a public statement to pump up Pippen.

juju, maybe I confused you with another MJ stan.



He was a shell of himself after the 98' back injury-which came on top of various other injuries in the preceding year, i.e. foot, neck. He was 33 with the mileage of a 35-36 year old when you count his deep playoff runs and his 2 Olympics.

Why do MJ fans dwell on one year in Houston and ignore four years in Portland? He did not fit in Houston's offense where they made him a spot up shooter a la Bosh in Miami. That did not suit his game. He did in fact lead a team to Game 7 of the WCF--and that team probably came within minutes of a ring.

MJ fans say the Wizards years should not even be spoken of. So why dwell on Houston?[/QUOTE]

You act like Pippen played 5000 years ago. I saw Pippen play. I watched that Rockets season.

He wasn't ineffective because he was hurt, he was ineffective because he couldn't get his game to fit in with that team. That's all there is to it.

The difference between the Wizards years is Jordan was legit 40 years old. A 34/35 year old Jordan still wins the title in place of Pippen on those Rockets and Blazers teams, 33 year old Jordan there isn't even a doubt.

Not to mention the 98-99 season had a very extended off-season of like 6 months. There was plenty of time to recover and recuperate.

I would've in fact liked to have seen Jordan go play elsewhere for a year too in 98-99, I think he could've won another title in say New York or somewhere else. That would've been better than the Wizards stint which I wasn't personally a fan of, but really that's his life and he owed no one anything, if he wanted to play a couple of years before his legs completely gave out just for his own enjoyment, it's not for a fan to say you should or shouldn't.

Stop with the "why do Jordan fans ..." nonsense, just because someone doesn't agree with every point, make a counter point or stop hiding behind that sad agenda.

I've said many times Pippen was a great player. But the Bulls were Jordan's team. And he was the best player on every Bulls championship team by a long shot. Kinda comes with the territory of being the GOAT.

You're telling me 99' Pippen had the same athletic ability 98' Pippen had? Even 98' Pippen had declined a bit. Pippen peaked from 1994-1996 and then gradually declined in subsequent years. After the 98' injury he simply couldn't perform at an elite level anymore (at least not on a consistent basis). In 99' and 00' he was still a good player, especially on defense. After that he declined further in 2001-2003 where he was a role player and in his final year, 2004, he was useless and only played about 20 games.

Saying 99' Pippen was 33 and the same as prime Pippen is like saying 32 year old Wade this year was comparable to prime Wade. They did not get the luxury of declining gradually due to various injuries. Amare, unfortunately, is another example of this. He became a role player at age 30.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]I'm stating three clear examples, one being incredibly egregious.[/QUOTE]
Three examples of a stellar 18 year career. How many times did he come through?

[QUOTE]And 33 is not an "old man". A 33-year-old Jordan would win the title with that Rockets team with not much fuss. So would a 33-year-old Bryant most likely.[/QUOTE]
When I say old man I mean mileage on his body. Jordan had took a two year hiatus from basketball. So his 33 wasnt like Pippens. Think about Pippens career and the games hes played. From 90 to 98.

1990
Lost game seven in eastern conference final seven games

1991
Won NBA Finals then went to play in the Olympics. Remeber how Jordan hemmed and hawed about having to play with the dreamteam because he wanted to rest?

1992
Won NBA Finals

1993
Won NBA Finals

1994
Lost in the semis that went seven games

1995
lost in the semis that went six games

1996
Won NBA Finals then went to play in the Olympics

1997
Won NBA finals then rehabbed an injured foot

1998
Won NBA Finals then had surgery on his back again.


1999
At 33 plays 40 min and every game of the season

2000
Loses in the conference final in seven games.


[QUOTE]So I disagree. He played every game for the Rockets and led them in minutes too. [/QUOTE]
But he had a lot of miles on that body. And his minutes shouldve decreased. 40 min for any 33 year old is insane.

[QUOTE]Pippen himself has many times Michael was their leader and the greatest to ever play, etc. etc. etc. so why even try to manufacture a debate here? There really isn't one.[/QUOTE]
Michael Jordan called the 96 Bulls Pippens team. They were co leaders.

[QUOTE]"Michael's our leader, so we feed off that, and he showed why tonight by taking his game to another level. That's what he does." is pretty much like the standard sound bite you'd get from Scottie on any given night after the game.[/QUOTE]
Very true.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]You're telling me 99' Pippen had the same athletic ability 98' Pippen had? Even 98' Pippen had declined a bit. Pippen peaked from 1994-1996 and then gradually declined in subsequent years. After the 98' injury he simply couldn't perform at an elite level anymore (at least not on a consistent basis). In 99' and 00' he was still a good player, especially on defense. After that he declined further in 2001-2003 where he was a role player and in his final year, 2004, he was useless and only played about 20 games.

Saying 99' Pippen was 33 and the same as prime Pippen is like saying 32 year old Wade this year was comparable to prime Wade. They did not get the luxury of declining gradually due to various injuries. Amare, unfortunately, is another example of this. He became a role player at age 30.[/QUOTE]

Pippen played every game for the Rockets that season, and led the team in minutes played.

No player at age 33 is exactly the same as they would be in year's prior. Not even Jordan, he had lost a bit of athleticism by that age too.

But 33 isn't exactly time to ship a player off the retirement home either. Pippen played for several more years after that and he was still able to get up and throw down some pretty nice dunks that year, it's hardly like he was hobbling up and down the court in a wheelchair.

His ability to fit in with the Rockets and the in-fighting with Barkley remains though, if he was the tremendous leader who was easily able to fit into any role, one should ask why he couldn't do a little bit better there with two other HOF players.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]Pippen played every game for the Rockets that season, and led the team in minutes played.

No player at age 33 is exactly the same as they would be in year's prior. Not even Jordan, he had lost a bit of athleticism by that age too.

But 33 isn't exactly time to ship a player off the retirement home either. Pippen played for several more years after that and he was still able to get up and throw down some pretty nice dunks that year, it's hardly like he was hobbling up and down the court in a wheelchair.

His ability to fit in with the Rockets and the in-fighting with Barkley remains though, if he was the tremendous leader who was easily able to fit into any role, one should ask why he couldn't do a little bit better there with two other HOF players.[/QUOTE]
Because those hall of famers were old too. I believe I asked you this before. If you feel Pippen should've been winning leading teams to championships even at 33/34, then you must feel the same about Larry Bird in the early 90s.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]
Phil probably figured Scottie would have another migraine if the play was drawn up for him, instead he had the worst case of PMS in recorded History.

Dat Leadership.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:

You are taking the opposite position that you did on Wade. 33 versus 32 is a gradual decline absent an external factor like an injury. Wade at 33 should be similar to Wade at the end of last season. He clearly is no longer prime Wade. Pippen had a back injury at the end of the 98' season. That explains the drop-off in athleticism.

Here is a good thread on the 99' Rockets. [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187444[/url]

They did go from 41-41 to a 51 win pace with Pippen, despite losing Drexler and Kevin Willis (Hakeem did miss half of 98' but they were only 26-21 when he played).

[QUOTE]His ability to fit in with the Rockets and the in-fighting with Barkley remains though, if he was the tremendous leader who was easily able to fit into any role, one should ask why he couldn't do a little bit better there with two other HOF players.[/QUOTE]

It was because Barkley showed up to start the season 20 pounds overweight and Pippen called him out for it. If MJ did the same thing he would have been praised for it. He also wasn't the leader in Houston. He joined a team where there were established veterans. That was a different scenario than him being an incumbent in Chicago or joined a team with younger players in Portland.

If he was a tremendous leader who could fit anywhere why couldn't MJ in Washington? Or early in his career in Chicago? Why couldn't he impose his will on his teammates then? If what happened in Houston was repeated in Portland it would be important but that was one year in a 17 year career.

[QUOTE=Barstool]It was more the system and the fact that they were way past their primes. [B]Pippen was given practically no opportunities to best exploit his skills and talents offensively that one season on the Rockets. It wasn't an ego thing at all. Not only that, but he was used to being the leader and controlling everything and he really wasn't allowed to be a leader on the Rockets. He was much happier on the Blazers even if he wasn't scoring because he was able to assert himself more and he was obviously the team leader.[/B] I mean if you thought the "jail blazers" were combustible during that time...just think what they would have been without Scottie Pippen. I Saw almost every Blazer game he played with them and he had this incredibly calming effect on the entire team when he was in there and usually he was playing pg running the offense because Damon Stoudamire was absolutely useless as a pg.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240042[/url]

[QUOTE]Pippen played for several more years after that and he was still able to get up and throw down some pretty nice dunks that year, it's hardly like he was hobbling up and down the court in a wheelchair. [/QUOTE]

Yeah but he didn't have the same quickness, for example, which reduced his ability on defense. There really is no one who brings up Houston outside of people here with a certain "agenda." What happened there is pretty straightforward. Look at the threads on ISH that discussed the issue.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]
[B]Easy to be Mr. Likeable and the Nice Guy when you don't have to [I]actually[/I] lead.[/B] A valuable lesson Mr. Pippen learned when he was asked to be that guy. But he said, 'thanks but no thanks'.

[IMG]http://solecollector.com/media/u/images/Listt%205.jpg[/IMG]

And the second 3-peat is History.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:

BINGO

DonDadda ... he's on FIRE

[QUOTE]It was because Barkley showed up to start the season 20 pounds overweight and Pippen called him out for it. If MJ did the same thing he would have been praised for it.[/QUOTE]
And it's this exact double standard that drives me insane. And the Jordan brigade dont care about talking out of both sides of theor mouth.

Jordan never won a playoffs series without Pippen.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Because those hall of famers were old too. I believe I asked you this before. If you feel Pippen should've been winning leading teams to championships even at 33/34, then you must feel the same about Larry Bird in the early 90s.[/QUOTE]

That is what they do with Pippen. They take a few of the worst aspects of a 17 year record. At least, though, in those cases we are dealing with facts versus mythology. In 2000 he had a good bounce back year, was all-star caliber and a top player at his position and was the leader of the second best team in the league. By 2001 he was 35 and a role player whose primary value came from leadership and defensive versatility but Pippen in 2000 was a good player, although no longer an elite player like prime Pippen.

[QUOTE]And it's this exact double standard that drives me insane. And the Jordan brigade dont care about talking out of both sides of theor mouth.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. And the brigade consists of a dozen or so people. There are only a handful of Pippen fans to contest their numerous assertions. It was a lot better when we had Fatal9 and ShaqAttack3234 in the mix to call out some of the myths being promoted about Pippen.

They keep bringing up what Pippen did without Jordan but then complain when we look at what Mike did without Pippen. I have no problem with Pip's record post-Chicago, or in 94' and 95'. 2000 was a very enjoyable run.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]And it's this exact double standard that drives me insane. And the Jordan brigade dont care about talking out of both sides of theor mouth.[/QUOTE]

Except that MJ would've got results, instead of bickering and tearing the team apart.

So what exactly is being argued here? They both were leaders of the team, but did it in different ways. It's weird/stupid seeing all these Bulls fans sling shit at each other.

[QUOTE=Lebron23]Jordan never won a playoffs series without Pippen.[/QUOTE]
He won in '88 with a rookie, super raw, role player Scottie Pippen.

LeBron never won a ring without D. Wade, Chris Bosh, and Mike Miller.

[QUOTE][QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]He won in '88 with a rookie, super raw, role player Scottie Pippen.

LeBron never won a ring without D. Wade, Chris Bosh, and Mike Miller.[/QUOTE]

LeBron made it to the Finals with scrubs, was in the ECF another time and was operating with 60% and the ECSF as a floor in Cleveland since he turned 21. [U][I]No player in history did more, for so long, with less than LeBron in Cleveland from 2006-2010[/I][/U]. :bowdown: A lot of other legends would be struggling to get to 0.500 and then get bounced in the first round with those teams.

[QUOTE]It's weird seeing all these Bulls fans sling shit at each other.[/QUOTE]

A lot of these MJ fans are not Bulls fans these days. They stopped in 98'. TheMan is a legit Bulls fan. Samuri is too--but he hates Pippen, Rose and Noah--basically every Bulls legend outside of MJ--and believes the Bulls were not robbed in 94' by Hollins. If I recall correctly he also has said MJ was indeed suspended for gambling. So an odd Bulls fan, albeit still a fan post-1998.

[QUOTE=Warfan]So what exactly is being argued here? They both were leaders of the team, but did it in different ways. It's weird/stupid seeing all these Bulls fans sling shit at each other.[/QUOTE]
Pippen was second in command. Always was. RR arguing an entire summer long, excessive volume posting rant, smear campaign of the greatest of all-time ... a resentment over Jordan. Just like Pippen himself. Hell, RR probably is Pippen.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]
LeBron made it to the Finals with scrubs[/quote]
In a scrub eastern conference, with MAJOR help from Boobie Gibson carrying massive unexpected weight in the conference finals.

In '88, Pippen WAS a scrub. Just started to blossom in '89, wasn't a legit all star caliber player until 1990.

Samuri, who else achieved what LeBron did? "Scrub" East? The Pistons were a very good team from 2004-2008. ECF every year. The second best record in the league in 2008. The East also had Orlando, Boston, in addition to Detroit as contenders during that period.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Pippen was second in command. Always was. RR arguing an entire summer long, excessive volume posting rant, smear campaign of the greatest of all-time ... a resentment over Jordan. Just like Pippen himself. Hell, RR probably is Pippen.[/QUOTE]

I am only refuting claims made by the fleet of Jordan mythologists.

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/x1imfc.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Samuri is too--but he hates Pippen, Rose and Noah--basically every Bulls legend outside of MJ[/QUOTE]
LMAO ... what? Throwing shade at me now too, the way you do Big Mike?

I don't hate Pippen. Don't love him either. Underrated in life, overrated on ISH. Especially by people with agendas: you, '97 bulls, LeBird, etc.

I am a HUGE fan of Rose. Constantly have defended him, even though I've grown tired of his softness. Have never liked Noah since college, and in no way do I have to like him cause he plays for the Bulls. Hinrich is one of my all-time favorite Bulls.

Meanwhile, you're a guy who isn't even from Chicago, lives in what ... Delaware? Hates Jordan, not only our franchises greatest player but the best of all-time. And sucks off Pippen, the guy who essentially along with Krause ended the dynasty prematurely due to selfishness. Leaving Chicago high, and dry.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Pippen was second in command. Always was. RR arguing an entire summer long, excessive volume posting rant, smear campaign of the greatest of all-time ... a resentment over Jordan. Just like Pippen himself. Hell, RR probably is Pippen.[/QUOTE]

:lol
I just don't see the point of this back and forth BS. I see no reason why a Bulls fan should prop up or tear down either of them over the other. But i guess y'all can do whatever you want

LJ made it to the finals because of scrub ass eastern conference. Boonies Gibson had to go nuts one game for them to win. Mj made it to the second round against the eventual champs the Pistons and took one game from them. LeBron got that ass swept.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Samuri, who else achieved what LeBron did?[/quote]It's not nearly as impressive in context. The east was horrendous. Boobie shot them into the Finals, then he laid an egg in the Finals performance wise ... got swept being guarded by old AF Bruce Bowen.

MJ's '88 - '90 >>> LeBron's 2007

[quote=Roundball_Rock]I am only refuting claims made by the fleet of Jordan mythologists.[/QUOTE]
So we're supposed to feel ashamed that MJ was so great he had built in mythological like aspects to his career? No wonder he's GOAT. Why on earth would any of this bother a "Bulls fan" ...

Seriously though, what's the point of all the Pippen propaganda all summer? Also, it's spelled SamuRAI

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]LMAO ... what? Throwing shade at me now too, the way you do Big Mike?

I don't hate Pippen. Don't love him either. Underrated in life, overrated on ISH. Especially by people with agendas: you, '97 bulls, LeBird, etc.

I am a HUGE fan of Rose. Constantly have defended him, even though I've grown tired of his softness. Have never liked Noah since college, and in no way do I have to like him cause he plays for the Bulls. Hinrich is one of my all-time favorite Bulls.

Meanwhile, you're a guy who isn't even from Chicago, lives in what ... Delaware? Hates Jordan, not only our franchises greatest player but the best of all-time. And sucks off Pippen, the guy who essentially along with Krause ended the dynasty prematurely due to selfishness. Leaving Chicago high, and dry.[/QUOTE]
I can say 97 bulls is a Bulls fan who just want Pippen to get his tho. Round is trolling/making thread s he knows will get a response. I never seen 97 bulls start the war like round does.

[QUOTE=Warfan]:lol
I just don't see the point of this back and forth BS. I see no reason why a Bulls fan should prop up or tear down either of them over the other. But i guess y'all can do whatever you want[/QUOTE]
I'm not tearing down Pippen? We're all responding to Roundball's obvious agenda. And that dude ADMITS he hates Jordan.

I don't dislike Pippen at all. He is what he is ... what I've always claimed. I take nothing away from him. He's the 2nd in command of a dynasty. A guy who finally got mentally tough, and skilled enough to supplement the greatest player of all-time. Then they ran rough shot over the league.

OP literally making the case that Pippen was THE LEADER of the Bulls. No one with a brain, or whoever played for Chicago, certainly not against them in the 90s would make that asinine claim.

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]I'm not tearing down Pippen? We're all responding to Roundball's obvious agenda. And that dude ADMITS he hates Jordan.

I don't dislike Pippen at all. He is what he is ... what I've always claimed. I take nothing away from him. He's the 2nd in command of a dynasty. A guy who finally got mentally tough, and skilled enough to supplement the greatest player of all-time. Then they ran rough shot over the league.

OP literally making the case that Pippen was THE LEADER of the Bulls. No one with a brain, or whoever played for Chicago, certainly not against them in the 90s would make that asinine claim.

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I don't hate Pippen at all. I just responding to round nonsense.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Pippen was second in command. Always was. RR arguing an entire summer long, excessive volume posting rant, smear campaign of the greatest of all-time ... [B]a resentment over Jordan. Just like Pippen himself. [/B]Hell, RR probably is Pippen.[/QUOTE]

BTW what resentment towards Jordan by Pippen are you referring to? They are still friends.

[IMG]http://www.trendingplayers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/pippen-jordan.jpeg[/IMG]

[QUOTE]Especially by people with agendas: you, '97 bulls, LeBird, etc. [/QUOTE]

We have biases. We don't have "agendas."

[QUOTE]Pippen, the guy who essentially along with Krause ended the dynasty prematurely due to selfishness. Leaving Chicago high, and dry.[/QUOTE]

You are blaming Pippen for Krause breaking up the team? Jordan was the reigning MVP--the GOAT leader, GOAT player, GOAT at everything. He could have stayed too but decided to retire.

[QUOTE]Meanwhile, you're a guy who isn't even from Chicago, lives in what ... Delaware? [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I grew up and have, outside of 4 years in north NJ, always lived in the Philly area. Which is why some of the conspiracy theories are funny. I am not from California or Ohio. I became a Bulls fan because the Sixers were trash when I started watching and the Bulls were on national television so often they became almost a second home team. I root for the Eagles in football. Yet you all spent years claiming I was a closet Kobe stan/Lakers fan; now you say I am a closet LeBron stan. :oldlol:

[QUOTE]LJ made it to the finals because of scrub ass eastern conference. [/QUOTE]

Detroit was a legitimate contender from 2004-2008. Besides, we are not talking about just one year but really the entire 2006-2010 period. LeBron had the Cavs consistently competitive despite playing with scrubs. I am not aware of anyone else who had a team at such a high level for so long with so little:

2006: 50 wins, ECSF
2007: 50 wins, Finals
2008: 50 win pace with him (0-7 without him), ECSF
2009: 66 wins, ECF
2010: 63 wins, ECSF

The 2006 and 2008-2010 losses came against the reigning or eventual East champ every year.

[QUOTE]So we're supposed to feel ashamed that MJ was so great he had built in mythological like aspects to his career?[/QUOTE]

That isn't what people are referring to when people speak of Jordan mythology and Jordan mythologists. People are not talking about his GOAT-caliber resume but some of the ridiculous claims made about him: he won by himself, he would never do things he actually did, how he >>>>> any other player in history, how he would put up crazy numbers in today's game, etc.

[QUOTE]I can say 97 bulls is a Bulls fan who just want Pippen to get his tho. Round is trolling/making thread s he knows will get a response. [/QUOTE]

My 90's Bulls threads rarely come out the blue. If you look at my threads you'll see often the seeds were planted in some MJ or Pippen thread that occurred prior to that thread. The thread is a refutation of some of what MJ stans said in that thread. For example, this thread is the result of MJ stans saying Pip was a poor leader.

How am I a troll? I have never been banned or suspended in 5 years like Samurai and OldSchool/Loki. Just because I say things MJ fans don't like does not=trolling.

[QUOTE]And that dude ADMITS he hates Jordan. [/QUOTE]

I don't hate MJ. I have him as my co-GOAT. When I joined ISH I was DEFENDING Mike and even making a few pro-MJ threads. What I do is refute the claims of MJ stans and I did turn anti-MJ as a result of MJ stans' posts. I don't hate him, though. He was instrumental in giving us rings and legendary teams like the 72-10 team.

[QUOTE]OP literally making the case that Pippen was THE LEADER of the Bulls. No one with a brain, or whoever played for Chicago, certainly not against them in the 90s would make that asinine claim.[/QUOTE]

What I did was post quotes from Phil Jackson and his close friend Charley Rosen. Take it up with them. :confusedshrug: In this thread, as I have elsewhere, I have said MJ had an important leadership role on the Bulls, which is true.

So underrated, one of my fav ever and was close to being a perfect SF.

[QUOTE=scandisk_]good thing Pip is leaps and bounds better than LBJ as a leader. GO PIP![/QUOTE]

Why does everything about lebron have to be so negative? Just because Jordan and Pippen were much better leaders doesn't mean Bron isn't a good player. Not everyone got to see Jordan/Pippen and for some of them, Bron (while not as good of a leader) is all these kids have.

[QUOTE=AintNoSunshine]So underrated, one of my fav ever and was close to being a perfect SF.[/QUOTE]
He was close, only thing missing was volume scoring. Basically the greatest Beta ever. It worked cause he knew he was a true sidekick, 2nd in command too.

He was the template for this guy basically ...

LeBron:
50% Pippen
20% Penny
20% Magic
10% Jordan

[QUOTE=juju151111]I can say 97 bulls is a Bulls fan who just want Pippen to get his tho. Round is trolling/making thread s he knows will get a response. I never seen 97 bulls start the war like round does.[/QUOTE]


Co-sign.

97 bulls is a Bulls fan through and through. He will defend is dude Pip, just like any MJ fan will defend MJ. I got no problem with that as 1) he doesn't rip MJ to prop Scottie, 2) Pip is my dude, too, so I'm not gonna trash him to defend MJ, 3) and we're both true Bulls fans.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]He was close, only thing missing was volume scoring. Basically the greatest Beta ever. It worked cause he knew he was a true sidekick, 2nd in command too.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

See, this is what I am talking about. The MJ stan brigade will make comments like that "true sidekick," "greatest beta ever" so Pippen fans naturally will refute it. It is funny, MJ fans like some of the people above will swear they are not anti-Pippen yet they never call out their fellow MJ stans for such statements. Why should we be forced to unilaterally disarm in face of non-stop propaganda from a dozen posters?

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]I'm not tearing down Pippen? We're all responding to Roundball's obvious agenda. And that dude ADMITS he hates Jordan.

I don't dislike Pippen at all. He is what he is ... what I've always claimed. I take nothing away from him. He's the 2nd in command of a dynasty. A guy who finally got mentally tough, and skilled enough to supplement the greatest player of all-time. Then they ran rough shot over the league.

OP literally making the case that Pippen was THE LEADER of the Bulls. No one with a brain, or whoever played for Chicago, certainly not against them in the 90s would make that asinine claim.

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]


Word. :cheers:

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]:rolleyes:

See, this is what I am talking about. The MJ stan brigade will make comments like that "true sidekick," "greatest beta ever" so Pippen fans naturally will refute it. It is funny, MJ fans like some of the people above will swear they are not anti-Pippen yet they never call out their fellow MJ stans for such statements. Why should we be forced to unilaterally disarm in face of non-stop propaganda from a dozen posters?[/QUOTE]
You ignore mayhem retarded ass all the time and other posters.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]:rolleyes:

See, this is what I am talking about. The MJ stan brigade will make comments like that "true sidekick," "greatest beta ever" so Pippen fans naturally will refute it. It is funny, MJ fans like some of the people above will swear they are not anti-Pippen yet they never call out their fellow MJ stans for such statements. Why should we be forced to unilaterally disarm in face of non-stop propaganda from a dozen posters?[/QUOTE]
What did he say that's false? He was a sidekick.

[QUOTE]MJ was captain
Pippen was lieutenant[/QUOTE]

This isn't the police or military. This is a basketball team where no player has authority over other co-workers. He wasn't Mike's deputy or Mike's assistant.

[QUOTE=Phil Jackson]

Everybody says Michael [Jordan] was a great leader. He led by example, by rebuke, by harsh words.[B] Scottie’s leadership was equally dominant[/B], but [his was] a leadership of patting on the back, of support.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]:rolleyes:

See, this is what I am talking about.[/quote]
What did I say that was false though? None of that was a shot at Pippen. He was a sidekick, that's what he'll always be known as ... hell it's referenced all the time in pop culture.

Their basketball relationship was harmonious because of the organic basketball hierarchy on that team. Their dual leadership tactics working in conjunction whipped average role players into championship material.

MJ being alpha, demanding, callous and strict. Pippen being beta, gooey, emotional and nice to help build the fragile teammates back up.

Pip's game meshed with Jordan's. MJ helped mold him anyway, so much so that MJ felt he was "playing with his twin out there" thus the dobermans. Are you seriously insinuating Pippen was an alpha? Or a co leader of the Bulls?

MJ was captain
Pippen was lieutenant

Don't even try arguing otherwise.

What do MJ stans think about Derek Fisher's leadership role on the Lakers? Fisher-Kobe was a similar dynamic to Pippen-Jordan, with the exception of Fisher not serving as the "quarterback of the defense" (Phil Jackson's words...) like Pippen did.

my question is, how can a so-called "leader" go 1-9 in the playoffs without his so-called "beta sidekick", but the so-called "beta sidekick" can 15+ wins without the so-called "leader"?

not like "sidekick" pippen had amazing talent to work either. :confusedshrug:

truth is, jordan is a top 3 perimeter player of all time, but basketball is about winning- and jordan was honestly just another TMac when it pertained to playoff basketball.