A guy in NZ just live streamed himself shooting up a mosque

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]As usual, Hawker you with your agenda misrepresent others.

I said Muslims can't fight anybody except those who fight/hate them for their religion.

Then I erased this because I don't want that on my record come Day of Judgment since I don't have full context of that particular principle. You people can bash Muslims for "Taqiyyah" and say whatever you want but at the end of the day you have to use your common sense and realize a key principle of the faith is JUSTICE and TRUTH--and I can not speak of things about what I don't know.

---when I wrote that I realized that uhh, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) preached his message peacefully despite being tormented for 13 years in Makkah--where the Quraysh burned them, drawed and quartered Summayah (RA), torturing, heating people up, dragging them in sand with hot coal--- and during those 13 years Muslims didn't even fight back---thus I do not have full knowledge to that previous claim.

But again, I don't expect you to understand, because you have an agenda (i.e. you want to deny Hell and depict Muslims as unjust because it justifies your actions in life). You want to claim "I" have an agenda--well I don't promote myself here, I promote a way of life that submits entirely to God's Will--and that entails sacrificing one's personal agendas for doing what's right.

By the way, in the previous thread you could not properly retort the fact that it is not money that causes crops to grow--rather it is God Almighty who causes the seed to split.[/QUOTE]

I don't have an agenda here - you tried to equate yourself to Christianity which extols the principle of "love thy neighbor" and "forgiveness" which is opposite to that statement.

And I have no idea what thread that was.

[QUOTE=Hawker]I don't have an agenda here - you tried to equate yourself to Christianity which extols the principle of "love thy neighbor" and "forgiveness" which is opposite to that statement.

And I have no idea what thread that was.[/QUOTE]

You responded to my thread about the money and crops. Thanks for the courtesy. It was merely a semantical disagreement.

You inherently have an agenda--whether you choose to admit or not. You want to depict Christianity as good and Islam as being devoid of certain goodness of Christianity, when this only demonstrates your personal ignorance on the beliefs of the faith.

Forgiveness is most definitely a part of Islam. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was stoned by children in the streets until he bled and was given the option to pray for that city's destruction--but he forgave.

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was given the option to massacre the people in Makkah after a long period of warfare between the Muslims and the Quraysh---and he let everybody of unscathed when the Muslims reclaimed Makkah.

That is a superb example of mercy. Being in a position of strength yet not inflicting pain upon others despite having the right to do so. EVen when that group of people, the Quraysh--as previously stated, tortured innocents for following a religion different from their polytheism--including straight up killing a woman and dragging a "slave" through the hot sands and torturing them with rocks (Bilal)

As is loving thy neighbor.
[url]https://www.zakat.org/en/top-11-rights-neighbors-understanding-muslims-duty-neighbors/[/url]

To love good means to be averse to evil. You can't love good and evil at the same time.

The people I was referring to in the post that Muslims are not supposed to love---i.e. the "kuffar" are people without any morals hell-bent on destruction and dragging others alongside that destruction.

I am seeing traces of this kuffar attitude in guys like Objectivity (who refered to Muslims as insects and applauded the killer for slaughtering others), Chewing (who is talking about enslaving people and instead of offering condolences to victims immediately tried to talk about "outdated ideologies"), in TheMan (who resorted to lying about the Fate of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) claiming he's in a lake of fire (he has no such knowledge) and parading images of Spanish men who slaughtered Moors in a bloodthirsty fanatical fashion), coin24 (who resorts to all kinds of tomfoolery), stalker4life (who seized this opportunity to try to flex white man's muscles) and others who think they are better on behalf of their race (the first step to dehumanizing and oppressing others SEE TRAIL OF TEARS and SEE Slavery). Of course, Nick Young and 9erempires as well.

To love and approve of this kind of attitude/behavior is foolish and contrary to goodness, peace, truth, justice, love, faith and all the traits pleasing to God.

[URL="http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/10120347/Drone-victims-radicalised-at-mosque"]http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/10120347/Drone-victims-radicalised-at-mosque[/URL]

[QUOTE]The parents of a man killed by a drone in Yemen say he was "radicalised" in Christchurch. But preachers at the city mosque say they are moderates.

Christchurch's Muslim leaders say they are shocked and "disturbed" by claims two men killed in a drone strike in Yemen were introduced to radical Islam at their mosque.

Australian Christopher Havard, 27, and dual New Zealand-Australian national Daryl Jones were killed by a missile fired by a US drone in November.

Australia's ABC news yesterday reported the pair had been on an Australian Federal Police watchlist because of their links to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) terror group.[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting tidbit.

[QUOTE=Hawker]The parents of a man killed by a drone in Yemen say he was "radicalised" in Christchurch. But preachers at the city mosque say they are moderates.

Christchurch's Muslim leaders say they are shocked and "disturbed" by claims two men killed in a drone strike in Yemen were introduced to radical Islam at their mosque.

Australian Christopher Havard, 27, and dual New Zealand-Australian national Daryl Jones were killed by a missile fired by a US drone in November.

Australia's ABC news yesterday reported the pair had been on an Australian Federal Police watchlist because of their links to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) terror group.[/QUOTE]
I am SHOCKED to find that there is gambling going on in this establishment.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]I am SHOCKED to find that there is gambling going on in this establishment.[/QUOTE]
?


not sure what that means

[QUOTE=red1]?


not sure what that means[/QUOTE]

He's mocking the report... in essence, he believes they most certainly know where the man's radical ideas came from, and are just covering their asses.

[QUOTE=Hawker][URL="http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/10120347/Drone-victims-radicalised-at-mosque"]http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/10120347/Drone-victims-radicalised-at-mosque[/URL]

[I]The parents of a man killed by a drone in Yemen say he was "radicalised" in Christchurch. But preachers at the city mosque say they are moderates.

Christchurch's Muslim leaders say they are shocked and "disturbed" by claims two men killed in a drone strike in Yemen were introduced to radical Islam at their mosque.

Australian Christopher Havard, 27, and dual New Zealand-Australian national Daryl Jones were killed by a missile fired by a US drone in November.

Australia's ABC news yesterday reported the pair had been on an Australian Federal Police watchlist because of their links to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) terror group.

[/I]



This is an interesting tidbit.[/QUOTE]

Hmm. I wonder if the gunmen knew this mosque was a hotbed for ISIS. Probably not since he killed women and children indiscriminately as well.

[QUOTE=Long Duck Dong]Hmm. I wonder if the gunmen knew this mosque was a hotbed for ISIS. Probably not since he killed women and children indiscriminately as well.[/QUOTE]

Women breed new terrorists and children grow up to be terrorists...

[QUOTE=Objectivity]Women breed new terrorists and children grow up to be terrorists...[/QUOTE]

For the sake of argument: okay sure, that is valid reasoning. But does it not destroy your ideological standpoint when your answer is to become a terrorist to kill terrorism?

[QUOTE=Prometheus]For the sake of argument: okay sure, that is valid reasoning. But does it not destroy your ideological standpoint when your answer is to become a terrorist to kill terrorism?[/QUOTE]

It is a matter of perspective.
Would it have been justifiable to shoot a bunch of nazis before they came to power?
Islam is the religious equivalent of nazism and people like the christchurch shooter see them as an existential threat to the western civilization.

[QUOTE=Objectivity]It is a matter of perspective.
Would it have been justifiable to shoot a bunch of nazis before they came to power?
Islam is the religious equivalent of nazism and people like the christchurch shooter see them as an existential threat to the western civilization.[/QUOTE]

Can you substantiate the claim that Islam is the religious equivalent of nazism? That seems to be an outlandish statement.

And if it was true... the religion has existed and been running strong for, what, 1400 years now? Shouldn't their version of the holocaust have already happened? Hasn't the time "before they came to power" already passed?

Trump Approves.

[QUOTE=Prometheus]Can you substantiate the claim that Islam is the religious equivalent of nazism? That seems to be an outlandish statement.

And if it was true... the religion has existed and been running strong for, what, 1400 years now? Shouldn't their version of the holocaust have already happened? Hasn't the time "before they came to power" already passed?[/QUOTE]


They're spreading across the globe right now, almost every country and city has a slum area full of Muslim inbreds on welfare with 5 kids per family.
There job is to outnumber everyone else.

Just facts.

Call me racist or a hater but whatever. Open your eyes, your own pc cuck governments are allowing it to happen, and we're paying for it :facepalm

[QUOTE=Prometheus]Can you substantiate the claim that Islam is the religious equivalent of nazism? That seems to be an outlandish statement.

And if it was true... the religion has existed and been running strong for, what, 1400 years now? [B]Shouldn't their version of the holocaust have already happened?[/B] Hasn't the time "before they came to power" already passed?[/QUOTE]
Armenian genocide ring a bell? Ethnic cleansing of Greek and Assyrian Christians?

Turkey is currently 98% muslim. That didn’t happen naturally.

[QUOTE=Prometheus]Can you substantiate the claim that Islam is the religious equivalent of nazism? That seems to be an outlandish statement.

And if it was true... the religion has existed and been running strong for, what, 1400 years now? [B]Shouldn't their version of the holocaust have already happened?[/B] Hasn't the time "before they came to power" already passed?[/QUOTE]


:facepalm


Uhh they've been killing others and each other for 1400 years. And if you want to see the striking similarities between Nazism and Islam, just look at some of the laws within Sharia Law.

[QUOTE=Hawker]Right - and you

[QUOTE=coin24]They're spreading across the globe right now, almost every country and city has a slum area full of Muslim inbreds on welfare with 5 kids per family.
There job is to outnumber everyone else.

Just facts.

Call me racist or a hater but whatever. Open your eyes, your own pc cuck governments are allowing it to happen, and we're paying for it :facepalm[/QUOTE]
:lol I'm Muslim and I guarantee I contribute more to society than you ever will.

[QUOTE=lilteapot]:lol I'm Muslim and I guarantee I contribute more to society than you ever will.[/QUOTE]
Ditto.


Canadian government might as well attach suction cups to me the way they milk me. There's a tax on everything.

Guidance counselor in high school told me I was intelligent and told me to go to university. Got a useless undergrad and got slapped with 50k in student debt -got most of it paid off with zero parental support or any support whatsoever. And a HUGE chunk of that 50k was interest because I didn't understand how the loan system works so I defaulted when I couldn't make the payments. Still got that shit handled. That's pure profit for the federal and provincial government.


Ultimately I don't mind the ordeal that's part of being a citizen, you have to pull your own weight. Losers like chewing and coin24 need to stop blaming their problems on foreigners or "muzzies" as that moron chewing likes to say.

Look in the mirror you f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking goof. I'm talking to you chewing. I'm sure you'll find all of your problems right there.

[QUOTE=red1]Ditto.


Canadian government might as well attach suction cups to me the way they milk me. There's a tax on everything.

Guidance counselor in high school told me I was intelligent and told me to go to university. Got a useless undergrad and got slapped with 50k in student debt -got most of it paid off with zero parental support or any support whatsoever. And a HUGE chunk of that 50k was interest because I didn't understand how the loan system works so I defaulted when I couldn't make the payments. Still got that shit handled. That's pure profit for the federal and provincial government.


Ultimately I don't mind the ordeal that's part of being a citizen, you have to pull your own weight. Losers like chewing and coin24 need to stop blaming their problems on foreigners or "muzzies" as that moron chewing likes to say.

Look in the mirror you f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking goof. I'm talking to you chewing. I'm sure you'll find all of your problems right there.[/QUOTE]


Primitive death cult religion will never be the mainstream in modernized countries. Sorry, pal. Plenty of Muslim reformers agree with me. Why subjugate your women? Why follow a violent ideology such as Sharia? No thanks. Ya'll may walk the streets of London and Toronto and feel modernized, but your brains are still back in the stone age.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Primitive death cult religion will never be the mainstream in modernized countries. Sorry, pal. Plenty of Muslim reformers agree with me. Why subjugate your women? Why follow a violent ideology such as Sharia? No thanks.[/QUOTE]
You do realize that there is such a thing as a secular/moderate muslim?

Live and let live - I don't see any muslims storming churches and synagogues handing out the Quran trying to convert people.

We've had this discussion before - no one is trying to convert you. You're just repeating the same bullshit talking points that have been beaten to death in the last 20 years.

This is a free country so you're more than welcome to keep spouting your irrational views. Live and let live - do what you like. I'll keep putting you in your place though if you don't mind. I have no problem smacking a moron around. Consider it tough love.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Primitive death cult religion will never be the mainstream in modernized countries. Sorry, pal. Plenty of Muslim reformers agree with me. Why subjugate your women? Why follow a violent ideology such as Sharia? No thanks. [B]Ya'll may walk the streets of London and Toronto and feel modernized, but your brains are still back in the stone age.[/B][/QUOTE]
Edited your post to add this one sentence. :roll:


Serious question. How many muslims have you interacted with in person in the last year? Exchanging at least a few sentences?


If anyone is running outdated archaic hardware it's probably the close-minded bitter mental midget who spends his time slandering and speaking poorly about people he knows nothing about.


Just saying.

[QUOTE=red1]You do realize that there is such a thing as a secular/moderate muslim?

Live and let live - I don't see any muslims storming churches and synagogues handing out the Quran trying to convert people.

We've had this discussion before - no one is trying to convert you. You're just repeating the same bullshit talking points that have been beaten to death in the last 20 years.

This is a free country so you're more than welcome to keep spouting your irrational views. Live and let live - do what you like. I'll keep putting you in your place though if you don't mind. I have no problem smacking a moron around. Consider it tough love.[/QUOTE]


Moderate Muslims are a myth. That's a Muslim that hates Radical Islam, but still has a negative view towards the West, Israel, forces his wife to wear a hijab, and decries Islamophobia at every turn.

Secular Reformist Muslims I can get behind.

[QUOTE=red1]Edited your post to add this one sentence. :roll:


Serious question. How many muslims have you interacted with in person in the last year? Exchanging at least a few sentences?


If anyone is running outdated archaic hardware it's probably the close-minded bitter mental midget who spends his time slandering and speaking poorly about people he knows nothing about.


Just saying.[/QUOTE]


I don't go out seeking Muslims. I have nothing in common with them. Meeting and speaking to one of them will not change my mind. You've chosen to follow a religion with such a bloody history at its inception, that I question how anyone can follow that religion today. You read about the violence, the beheadings, you read about Aisha becoming his bride at age 9, and then you still decide that this is a religion you want to follow? Good lord.

I mean, let's talk about the word and the meaning of the word, "Caliphate". Do the Jews or Christians have such a word like this? I think not.


Why are there 193 Jewish Nobel laureates, and only 12 Muslim ones?

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing][B]Moderate Muslims are a myth.[/B] That's a Muslim that hates Radical Islam, but still has a negative view towards the West, Israel, forces his wife to wear a hijab, and decries Islamophobia at every turn.

Secular Reformist Muslims I can get behind.[/QUOTE]
No it's not. You're just making shit up as you go along. There are a ton of muslims who love and contribute to their country in the west. Yeah there are a ton of ignorant people who complain but that goes for everyone coming from every angle in modern society including you.

Regardless, no on will ever impose Sharia law on you. Relax buddy. English common law is doing the job just fine.

If you can get behind secular muslims then you're fine. Just stop generalizing so much.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]I don't go out seeking Muslims. I have nothing in common with them. Meeting and speaking to one of them will not change my mind. You've chosen to follow a religion with such a bloody history at its inception, that I question how anyone can follow that religion today. You read about the violence, the beheadings, you read about Aisha becoming his bride at age 9, and then you still decide that this is a religion you want to follow? Good lord.

I mean, let's talk about the word and the meaning of the word, "Caliphate". Do the Jews or Christians have such a word like this? I think not.


Why are there 193 Jewish Nobel laureates, and only 12 Muslim ones?[/QUOTE]
This post is the exact reason why you always get slapped around in these discussions. It's because you literally know nothing about the subject that you keep speaking about.

Your logic is extremely poor as well. If we're going to label muslims bloodthirsty and equate ISIS with the average muslim then that same argument can be turned on it's head when you look at the countless civilians around the world that the US military kills on a yearly basis. Are you personally responsible for the 100k+ innocent civilians that were killed in the Iraq war? Of course not.

Islam is not about violence. No matter what your fake media keeps telling you. That's just not what the religion is about. Period.

Funny how your side - the blaming foreigners for all of their problems side - is now the one decrying and complaining about fake news. Muslims spent years saying that the news constantly showed only one side - now Trump and his supporters Mr. Muslim ban himself and his merry band of xenophobes are making the same complaint about the media. The comedy writes itself. :roll:

[QUOTE=red1]This post is the exact reason why you always get slapped around in these discussions. It's because you literally know nothing about the subject that you keep speaking about.

Your logic is extremely poor as well. If we're going to label muslims bloodthirsty and equate ISIS with the average muslim then that same argument can be turned on it's head when you look at the countless civilians around the world that the US military kills on a yearly basis. Are you personally responsible for the 100k+ innocent civilians that were killed in the Iraq war? Of course not.

Islam is not about violence. No matter what your fake media keeps telling you. That's just not what the religion is about. Period.

Funny how your side - the blaming foreigners for all of their problems side - is now the one decrying and complaining about fake news. Muslims spent years saying that the news constantly showed only one side - now Trump and his supporters Mr. Muslim ban himself and his merry band of xenophobes are making the same complaint about the media. The comedy writes itself. :roll:[/QUOTE]


What have I said about Islam that's incorrect?


And don't be one of those people that point to something else as some type of deflection or equivalency. The US Military is not a "Christian Army" or any nonsense like that.

And who's blaming foreigners? Again, you're moving the goal posts. Let's focus on Islam and its stranglehold on those in the Middle East. Why is their Sharia Law in the first place?

Pat, be nice bro...these Muslims here aren't the problem.

Save your poison for the wackos within Islam, which clearly is not the majority.

Act Christian and accept them as brothers and defend yourself against the Islamists who would murder other Muslims as well as non Muslims. Those should be your target, not your ISH brethren.

:cheers:

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing][B]What have I said about Islam that's incorrect?[/B]


And don't be one of those people that point to something else as some type of deflection or equivalency. The US Military is not a "Christian Army" or any nonsense like that.

And who's blaming foreigners? Again, you're moving the goal posts. Let's focus on Islam and its stranglehold on those in the Middle East. Why is their Sharia Law in the first place?[/QUOTE]
Really? Ok.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing][B]Moderate Muslims are a myth. That's a Muslim that hates Radical Islam, but still has a negative view towards the West, Israel, forces his wife to wear a hijab, and decries Islamophobia at every turn. [/B] [/QUOTE]

Whole paragraph is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing][B]I don't go out seeking Muslims. I have nothing in common with them. Meeting and speaking to one of them will not change my mind. You've chosen to follow a religion with such a bloody history at its inception, that I question how anyone can follow that religion today. You read about the violence, the beheadings, you read about Aisha becoming his bride at age 9, and then you still decide that this is a religion you want to follow? Good lord.[/B][/QUOTE]
Your entire view is based on false information. You have nothing in common with muslims? Is that all there is to 1.8 billion people? Just violent beheaders?

[QUOTE=TheMan][B]Pat, be nice bro...these Muslims here aren't the problem.[/B]

Save your poison for the wackos within Islam, which clearly is not the majority.

Act Christian and accept them as brothers and defend yourself against the Islamists who would murder other Muslims as well as non Muslims. Those should be your target, not your ISH brethren.

:cheers:[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the gesture but we don't need chewing to be nice. Nice doesn't achieve anything.

We need him to be rational and decent. Need that from all human beings.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]And don't be one of those people that point to something else as some type of deflection or equivalency. The US Military is not a "Christian Army" or any nonsense like that.

And who's blaming foreigners? Again, you're moving the goal posts. Let's focus on Islam and its stranglehold on those in the Middle East. Why is their Sharia Law in the first place?[/QUOTE]
You're not a very logical person. What does Christianity have to do with the core point? You said how can someone support a religion with blood in it's history. That same logic applies to everything - are you also responsible for the blood on others' hands?

And you certainly do blame foreigners. Muzzies this muzzies that blah blah blah. What are you even trying to say.

[QUOTE=red1]Really? Ok.



Whole paragraph is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.


Your entire view is based on false information. You have nothing in common with muslims? Is that all there is to 1.8 billion people? Just violent beheaders?[/QUOTE]


LOL I think I know more about Islam than you do. What am I wrong about? The beheadings? Let's ask the Jews of Banu Qurayza about that (verses 33:26-27 and 33:9-10).

Am I wrong about the violence? Here are 101 Military campaigns directly tied to Muhammad himself. ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad[/url])


So again, what am I incorrect about when it comes to Islam?


And answer my question though, why does Sharia Law exist?

[QUOTE=TheMan]Pat, be nice bro...these Muslims here aren't the problem.

Save your poison for the wackos within Islam, which clearly is not the majority.

Act Christian and accept them as brothers and defend yourself against the Islamists who would murder other Muslims as well as non Muslims. Those should be your target, not your ISH brethren.

:cheers:[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-overview-1.png[/IMG]

:confusedshrug:

I think there's definite legitimate cultural and political questions to be asked about these individuals countries who support this - and whether or not the values of these countries translate to the immigrants that come to western countries. This looks like a clear majority to me considering the population of places like Indonesia and Malaysia.

Dudes, can you stop generalizing people regarding their religions, races or anything? It is disgusting...

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]LOL I think I know more about Islam than you do. What am I wrong about? The beheadings? Let's ask the Jews of Banu Qurayza about that (verses 33:26-27 and 33:9-10).

Am I wrong about the violence? Here are 101 Military campaigns directly tied to Muhammad himself. ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad[/url])


So again, what am I incorrect about when it comes to Islam?


And answer my question though, why does Sharia Law exist?[/QUOTE]
How many times do I have to tell you. It's like talking to a brick wall. You can dig up passages from the quran all day long. Can probably find verses in the bible as well.

That doesn't mean that modern muslims - especially muslims in western countries - are violent or bloodthirsty. Which is [B]exactly[/B] the image you're trying to paint. And that is factually wrong.

Implying that modern muslims in western countries are violent or bloodthirsty [B]is wrong[/B].

You straight up admit that you don't interact with or know any muslims. You literally said that. Perhaps you should refrain from having such a strong opinion with such an admitted lack of knowledge? That's what an intelligent person would do.

France, a majority Christian nation, getting sh!t on within their own borders

541 anti-Semitic acts
101 anti-Muslim acts
1063 anti-Christian acts

[url]https://international.la-croix.com/news/the-worrying-return-of-anti-semitism/9450#[/url]

Anyone want to guess what these figures will look like in 20 years?

[QUOTE=Hawker][IMG]http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-overview-1.png[/IMG]

:confusedshrug:

I think there's definite legitimate cultural and political questions to be asked about these individuals countries who support this - and whether or not the values of these countries translate to the immigrants that come to western countries. This looks like a clear majority to me considering the population of places like Indonesia and Malaysia.[/QUOTE]
It would never happen. You would get pushback from muslims in western countries as well. I know that because I am one of them.

A country's laws should be secular with the freedom to practice religion. The united states constitution got that right.

[QUOTE=red1]It would never happen. You would get pushback from muslims in western countries as well. I know that because I am one of them.

A country's laws should be secular with the freedom to practice religion. The united states constitution got that right.[/QUOTE]

Right - it's just hard to believe the trope of "majority of muslims are ok" when you know, clearly that isn't correct. If that's how those countries want to operate, fine, but western countries should be free to criticize those countries' government without fear of being called "racist" or "islamophobic." US military should leave them alone as well.

I don't deny there are cultural muslims in western countries that don't really practice islam that are cool but one of the weirdest things to me is that even the everyday muslim has this weird obsession with Palestine and Israel even though they've never even been there. It's like they are all united in that. Even the ones that don't even really practice.

I think it's kinda like Ilhan Omar - she brings up some legit points about Israel (making US policy that is more geared towards Israel than US) but quickly gets claimed as anti-semitic. She may actually be anti-semitic herself but a couple of her points were legit. Legitimate cultural/religious criticism shouldn't be deemed as untouchable or islamophobic which currently happens amongst the current dominant leftist culture.

Just an example that would rub people the wrong way - there was this indonesian guy that worked with us in the field and operated a piece of equipment that is pretty critical to real time operations. We tried contacting him on the radio while an operation was going on since there was an issue and he wasn't responding so we thought there was something wrong with him. A guy jumped on the piece of equipment and saw he was praying on top of the equipment and was completely abdicating his responsibility almost resulting in a failure. When asked, he said, "I have to pray. It's my religion." A failure like that would indict everyone on the crew and would be really, really difficult to explain to the customer. And then if you discipline the guy? You run the risk of being criticized of being discriminatory. So nothing happens.

That's the kind of stuff that's going to rub people the wrong way - sure they will follow the law but there are certain cultural expectations of the country you're in and people of that country expect it to be followed. The country isn't set up for 5 prayers a day like Indonesia is and when you go to Australia, well you have to accept that. I've done the same as an american going to another country. To be fair - that never happened again with him but people never forgot it.

[QUOTE=Hawker]Right - it's just hard to believe the trope of "majority of muslims are ok" when you know, clearly that isn't correct. If that's how those countries want to operate, fine, but western countries should be free to criticize those countries' government without fear of being called "racist" or "islamophobic." US military should leave them alone as well.

I don't deny there are cultural muslims in western countries that don't really practice islam that are cool but one of the weirdest things to me is that even the everyday muslim has this weird obsession with Palestine and Israel even though they've never even been there. It's like they are all united in that. Even the ones that don't even really practice.

I think it's kinda like Ilhan Omar - she brings up some legit points about Israel (making US policy that is more geared towards Israel than US) but quickly gets claimed as anti-semitic. She may actually be anti-semitic herself but a couple of her points were legit. Legitimate cultural/religious criticism shouldn't be deemed as untouchable or islamophobic which currently happens amongst the current dominant leftist culture.

Just an example that would rub people the wrong way - there was this indonesian guy that worked with us in the field and operated a piece of equipment that is pretty critical to real time operations. We tried contacting him on the radio while an operation was going on since there was an issue and he wasn't responding so we thought there was something wrong with him. A guy jumped on the piece of equipment and saw he was praying on top of the equipment and was completely abdicating his responsibility almost resulting in a failure. When asked, he said, "I have to pray. It's my religion." A failure like that would indict everyone on the crew and would be really, really difficult to explain to the customer. And then if you discipline the guy? You run the risk of being criticized of being discriminatory. So nothing happens.

That's the kind of stuff that's going to rub people the wrong way - sure they will follow the law but there are certain cultural expectations of the country you're in and people of that country expect it to be followed. The country isn't set up for 5 prayers a day like Indonesia is and when you go to Australia, well you have to accept that. I've done the same as an american going to another country. To be fair - that never happened again with him but people never forgot it.[/QUOTE]
My argument with chewing has nothing to do with criticizing muslim countries. Muslim countries deserve criticism. It has everything to do with criticizing all muslims in western countries saying [B]all muslims [/B]are bloodthirsty all muslims are this, all muslims are that, blah blah blah. I hear that a lot and it's not accurate so I correct it when I see it.

The criticism of Ilhan Omar is a joke and anyone with a brain can see that. Who knows she may very well be antisemitic I don't know. Nothing she said warranted the reaction she got. It's just the nature of the game, everything is fair game in the political arena and every tweet is potential ammo to be used. The right gets smeared for being racist so they just used the same play in reverse and the democrats being the p[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ssies that they are started scrambling in their usual backpedaling pandering manner.

Religious beliefs are never an excuse for incompetence. The guy in your example made a critical mistake. He should've made it clear in advance if he was going to pray and should have done it a better way. That applies tenfold if his absence on the job would affect other people. Good for him that he learned from his mistake. Your team had every right to be annoyed by that coworker and I'm sure you have several muslim coworkers who did not pray on top equipment. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Primitive death cult religion will never be the mainstream in modernized countries. Sorry, pal. Plenty of Muslim reformers agree with me. Why subjugate your women? Why follow a violent ideology such as Sharia? No thanks. Ya'll may walk the streets of London and Toronto and feel modernized, but your brains are still back in the stone age.[/QUOTE]

We subjugate women because there's a dress code for both genders?

That's an indictment on you more than anything, that you reduce a woman to what she wears instead of who she is.

[QUOTE=red1]My argument with chewing has nothing to do with criticizing muslim countries. Muslim countries deserve criticism. It has everything to do with criticizing all muslims in western countries saying [B]all muslims [/B]are bloodthirsty all muslims are this, all muslims are that, blah blah blah. I hear that a lot and it's not accurate so I correct it when I see it.

[B]The criticism of Ilhan Omar is a joke and anyone with a brain can see that. Who knows she may very well be antisemitic I don't know.[/B] Nothing she said warranted the reaction she got. It's just the nature of the game, everything is fair game in the political arena and every tweet is potential ammo to be used. The right gets smeared for being racist so they just used the same play in reverse and the democrats being the p[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ssies that they are started scrambling in their usual backpedaling pandering manner.

Religious beliefs are never an excuse for incompetence. The guy in your example made a critical mistake. He should've made it clear in advance if he was going to pray and should have done it a better way. That applies tenfold if his absence on the job would affect other people. Good for him that he learned from his mistake. Your team had every right to be annoyed by that coworker and I'm sure you have several muslim coworkers who did not pray on top equipment. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]


:lol

Does she have to come out and verbally say she hates Jews and wishes they were all dead? How about Linda Sarsour? Oh boy she's a beauty. Crazy how that Radical Islamist is allowed to cozy up to leaders like Omar and Tlaib.

[QUOTE=lilteapot]We subjugate women because there's a dress code for both genders?

That's an indictment on you more than anything, that you reduce a woman to what she wears instead of who she is.[/QUOTE]


Incorrect and deceitful. I am reducing women to having the freedoms to do as they please. Like vote, drive a car, and not wear a hijab because her husband demands it. Which is actually placing women on equal footing with men. Something the Feminists on the Left seem to always ignore when discussing how women are treated in the Arab world.

If a woman, married or not, wants to wear a bikini or jeans or let her hair loose, she should have every right to.

How do the rape laws work in Sharia? A woman has to have three male witnesses that witnessed the rape in order for her to even bring her attacker to justice? Seems fair enough.