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[QUOTE=red1]bosh was putting up numbers but he wasn't really doing shit before lebron AND wade.
I'm pretty sure he's happy being a two-time f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking champion. :roll:[/QUOTE]
Red as an expert on fighting who would win between MJ and LeBron?
These Jordan stans delusional :facepalm
Nah. Should be alright once AD gets that ring on his finger :pimp:
[QUOTE=Turbo Slayer]Nah. Should be alright once AD gets that ring on his finger :pimp:[/QUOTE]
Think about how great AD would have to become to take over this team
Like, by the end of the regular season, imagine that it's AD at the controls - the Lakers were gradually running more and more stuff through him as the season wore on (rather than the plodding Lebron), and it's AD's team by the time the playoffs start - MVP of the league
If the Lakers didn't have so much talent over and above Lebron and AD, I would say the above scenario MUST happen for them to win - Lebron is too slow to dominate with bron-ball anymore, especially since the Spurs (record win in 14'), Warriors (record win in 18'), and now the league (lottery in 19') has figured out bron-ball..
But the Lakers DO have ridiculous talent after AD and Lebron - it's nauseating - so they can still run Bron's shit-ball and win, just like his stacked talent advantages in 12, 13, and 16'..
[QUOTE=3ball]Think about how great AD would have to become to take over this team
Like, by the end of the regular season, imagine that it's AD at the controls - the Lakers were gradually running more and more stuff through him as the season wore on (rather than the plodding Lebron), and it's AD's team by the time the playoffs start - MVP of the league
If the Lakers didn't have so much talent over and above Lebron and AD, I would say the above scenario MUST happen for them to win - Lebron is too slow to dominate with bron-ball anymore, especially since the Spurs (record win in 14'), Warriors (record win in 18'), and now the league (lottery in 19') has figured out bron-ball..
But the Lakers DO have ridiculous talent after AD and Lebron - it's nauseating - so they can still run Bron's shit-ball and win, just like his stacked talent advantages in 12, 13, and 16'..[/QUOTE]
Once a beta, always a beta. Obsessed with Lebron.
HALP!!!!!!! Call 911!!!!!!! We got a case of ''Lebron Sickness'' syndrome. :lol
[QUOTE=Turbo Slayer]Once a beta, always a beta. Obsessed with Lebron.
HALP!!!!!!! Call 911!!!!!!! We got a case of ''Lebron Sickness'' syndrome. :lol[/QUOTE]
I'm giving you the thought processes it takes to predict the future
What you want to do is imagine you're in the future and looking back in hindsight.. :pimp:
I see Dwight talking about god and going on a mini-christian rant after he wins the title this year... We'll see if I'm right...
[QUOTE=RRR3]MJ’s fighting tactics:
Bear hug and lightly slap in the face
Yeah he’d totally knock out a 6’8 260 pound behemoth using that method.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't have to knock him out...
the ***** would drop to the floor voluntarily. :yaohappy:
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Except LeBron wasn't 6-3 155 pounds like Kerr.
We all know about MJ's bottom lip quivering when The Chief didn't put up with his kiddy bullshit.
[I]
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Except LeBron wasn't 6-3 155 pounds like Kerr.
We all know about MJ's bottom lip quivering when The Chief didn't put up with his kiddy bullshit.
[I]
[QUOTE=SpaceJam]Jesus Christ, Rob Parish the absolute ALPHA. This wasn't young MJ either, this was GOAT MJ and Parish told him to sit his ass down and Jordan took it :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
:lol :roll:
[QUOTE=SpaceJam]Jesus Christ, Rob Parish the absolute ALPHA. This wasn't young MJ either, this was GOAT MJ and Parish told him to sit his ass down and Jordan took it :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
MJ did the same thing to Bill Cartwright and Bill said he'd break MJ's legs
MJ just wants to make sure his bigs aren't soft.. it's pretty genius.. Cartwright knew shit was real and to play his best come gametime
[QUOTE=3ball]MJ did the same thing to Bill Cartwright and Bill said he'd break MJ's legs
MJ just wants to make sure his bigs aren't soft.. it's pretty genius and Cartwright knew shit was real and to play his best come gametime[/QUOTE]
Nope.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Except LeBron wasn't 6-3 155 pounds like Kerr.
We all know about MJ's bottom lip quivering when The Chief didn't put up with his kiddy bullshit.
[I]
[QUOTE=Smoke117]Like all bullies, Jordan was essentially a coward when someone actually stepped up to him.[/QUOTE]
:lol
[QUOTE=3ball]MJ did the same thing to Bill Cartwright and Bill said he'd break MJ's legs
MJ just wants to make sure his bigs aren't soft.. it's pretty genius.. Cartwright knew shit was real and to play his best come gametime[/QUOTE]
Too bad MJ turned Cartwright into a spot up shooting scrub.
No wonder Cartwright hated him.
[QUOTE=3ball]MJ did the same thing to Bill Cartwright and Bill said he'd break MJ's legs
MJ just wants to make sure his bigs aren't soft.. it's pretty genius.. Cartwright knew shit was real and to play his best come gametime[/QUOTE]
Oh, Jordan was checking to see if Parish, after TWENTY tears in the league and a HOF career, wasn't soft? GTFO :oldlol:
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Oh, Jordan was checking to see if Parish, after TWENTY tears in the league and a HOF career, wasn't soft? GTFO :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Yeah MJ needed proof that THIS guy wasn’t soft
[url]https://youtu.be/_ow29Ea9hCQ[/url]
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Oh, Jordan was checking to see if Parish, after TWENTY tears in the league and a HOF career, wasn't soft? GTFO :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
It's pretty common knowledge Jordan is a prick and a pretty crummy human being. In 3ball's distorted perception, though, he is the greatest chap since Jesus Christ himself.
[QUOTE=G0ATbe]Hope so. Both transformed from career losers to nba champs.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that what happened to Lebron after teaming up with them?
How many rings for Lebron before Bosh?
[QUOTE=3ball]Isn't that what happened to Lebron after teaming up with them?
How many rings for Lebron before Bosh or Love?[/QUOTE]
How many rings for Jordan before Pippen?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]How many rings for Jordan before Pippen?[/QUOTE]
ether :lol
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]How many rings for Jordan before Pippen?[/QUOTE]
Brutal.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]How many rings for Jordan before Pippen?[/QUOTE]
Bosh/Wade > Pippen
Heck, just Wade > Pippen
.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Oh, Jordan was checking to see if Parish, after TWENTY tears in the league and a HOF career, wasn't soft? GTFO :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
MJ had never played with Parish before
For all he knew, Bird/McHale/DJ were carrying his soft ass
[QUOTE=3ball]Isn't that what happened to Lebron after teaming up with them?
How many rings for Lebron before Bosh?[/QUOTE]
You mean when he had quality players around him he actually won and when he didn't he lost? Well, damn. LeBron wasn't lucky enough enough like MJ to have a top 30 all time player drafted to his team.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]You mean when he had quality players around him he actually won and when he didn't he lost? Well, damn. LeBron wasn't lucky enough enough like MJ to have a top 30 all time player drafted to his team.[/QUOTE]
Mo Williams was just as good as Pippen on offense.
:yaohappy:
He actually implied that. Not joking.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]
You mean when he had quality players around him he actually won and when he didn't he lost? Well, damn. LeBron wasn't lucky enough enough like MJ to have a top 30 all time player drafted to his team
[/QUOTE]
Lebron lost with 27 ppg Wade and 29 ppg Kyrie, while the best Pippen-help that MJ lost with was 19 on 41% in 95' ECSF (baseball year)...
Or 16 on 42% in 90' ECF (migraine)...
MJ simply won with way the f.uck less...
And the best Pippen help that MJ lost with OUTSIDE of the baseball year and migraine debacle is losing with Pippen's 10 ppg in 88' and 89' playoffs... :eek: ..
Lebron is nowhere near MJ and needed far more help to win, because his narrower skillset (ball-domination) results in weaker teams (less ball movement and teammates playing below capacity/spot-up shooters)
[QUOTE=3ball]Lebron lost with 27 ppg Wade and 29 ppg Kyrie, while the best Pippen-help that MJ lost with was 19 on 41% in 95' ECSF (baseball year)...
Or 16 on 42% in 90' ECF (migraine)...
MJ simply won with way the f.uck less...
And the best Pippen help that MJ lost with OUTSIDE of the baseball year and migraine debacle is losing with Pippen's 10 ppg in 88' and 89' playoffs... :eek: ..
Lebron is nowhere near MJ and needed far more help to win, because his narrower skillset (ball-domination) results in weaker teams (less ball movement and teammates playing below capacity/spot-up shooters)[/QUOTE]
Yawn. You are like a child the way you argue. I sometimes wonder if you actually even watched these Bulls series you go on about considering all your talking points revolve around ppg and fg%. Anyone who actually watched the Bulls play knows how big of an impact Pippen was having regardless if he was scoring a lot of points or not. Take 95 for instance, Pippen was a top defensive player in the entire league regardless of position (easily the best defensive player 1-4), but none of that matters apparently. All that matters is he scored 19ppg.
[QUOTE=3ball]..
Lebron is nowhere near MJ and needed far more help to win, because his narrower skillset (ball-domination) results in [B]weaker teams[/B] (less ball movement and teammates playing below capacity/spot-up shooters)[/QUOTE] Weaker teams? Miami had 66 wins. ''Ball domination'' is a myth. Beta.
[QUOTE=RRR3]Mo Williams was just as good as Pippen on offense.
:yaohappy:
He actually implied that. Not joking.[/QUOTE]
[B]I didn't imply shit - I informed you of the historical record that 09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen:[/B]
[I]09' Mo Will RS[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
[I]89' Pippen RS[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp
[I]09' Mo Will ECF[/I]:[COLOR="White"].ni[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
[I]89' Pippen 1st Rd[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat [COLOR="White"]'o[/COLOR] #1 SRS (3 all-stars[SIZE="3"]*[/SIZE])
[I]* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper[/I]
[B]Looks like Lebron had the far better cast but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. :confusedshrug:
Mo was also better than 19' Middleton:[/B]
[I]MO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] WILLIAMS[COLOR="White"]....[/COlor][/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
[I]KHRIS MIDDLETON[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp
[QUOTE=3ball]I didn't imply shit - I informed you of the historical record that 09' Mo was far[B] better than[/B] 89' Pippen
[/QUOTE]
3ball lying once again. Mo Willaims had 13.2 pts, 2.8 TRB, 4.9 ASTS, and worse shooting percentages. Pippen had 16.1 pts, 6.4 TRB, 5.2 ASTS. And better percentages.
Conclusion: Pippen is better career-wise.
[B]Beta.[/B] :lol
[QUOTE=3ball][B]I didn't imply shit - I informed you of the historical record that 09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen:[/B]
[I]09' Mo Will RS[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
[I]89' Pippen RS[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp
[I]09' Mo Will ECF[/I]:[COLOR="White"].ni[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
[I]89' Pippen 1st Rd[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat [COLOR="White"]'o[/COLOR] #1 SRS (3 all-stars[SIZE="3"]*[/SIZE])
[I]* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper[/I]
[B]Looks like Lebron had the far better cast but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. :confusedshrug:
Mo was also better than 19' Middleton:[/B]
[I]MO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] WILLIAMS[COLOR="White"]....[/COlor][/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
[I]KHRIS MIDDLETON[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp[/QUOTE]
Then you bring up dumb shit like this. Who cares about the 89 Bulls or an 89 Pippen? Nobody says he was a star. The fact that you are trying to compare an 89 Pippen to the best Mo Williams shows how much better Pippen was than him when the Bulls were winning championships, though. So good job. That the 89 Cavs underachieved doesn't really say anything in regards to winning with less or more. This is an indictment on the Cavs.
[QUOTE]3ball lying once again. Mo Willaims had 13.2 pts, 2.8 TRB, 4.9 ASTS, and worse shooting percentages. Pippen had 16.1 pts, 6.4 TRB, 5.2 ASTS. And better percentages.
Conclusion: Pippen is better career-wise.
[B]Beta.[/B] :lol[/QUOTE] Ether.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Klay put up 22, 20, and 21 a game on teams that scored 116 to 119ppg. The Heat by 2012 were doing 98.5ppg....as one of the top scoring teams in the league. When they did 102 it was 5th in the league. The slowest pace team in the NBA last year did 105ppg. Obviously in todays league the extra scoring would give Bosh a chance to go from 16-19 to 19-22....playing the exact same way.
Thats what seem to be ignoring here. ALL the bigtime scoring 3rd options were in eras where 110-125ppg wasnt uncommon. Defensive eras never allowed such a thing. In the league the Heat were in(which wasnt great on D itself compared to the era before) a big 3 wouldnt score like that. Ray Allen.....generally considered the least of the big 3? Went from a career high 26ppg all the way to 17 in 2008. Pierce went from 25 to 20. KG 22 to 19. Responsibility, plays run for you, and often minutes reduce on talented teams....
Nobody should be surprised a 3rd option isnt doing huge numbers in leagues that dont have 125ppg teams....nor should we be surprised guys dont do 20ppg in 28 minutes a game like Love. Why would he do superstar numbers in 28-32 minutes as a sidekick or 3rd option when he played 36-39 as the only star to get the numbers before?
I just feel like if some of you didnt muddy your thought process with Lebron you wouldnt think any of this was odd.[/QUOTE]
The point isn't really the ppg but how efficient the offense is overall. Warriors were BETTER than their 73-9 team on offense with KD in 2017 and 2019.
Pierce, Ray and KG took less shots together than when they were on mediocre teams as first options but their efficiency went way up compared to their previous year.
You can talk about volume all your want in terms of 3rd option putting up a certain amount of points but my argument was that Thompson's numbers stayed the same/increased with GS adding a superstar 25-30 ppg scorer, whereas Bosh and Love saw a significant decline in their production.
Lebron's ball-dominant playing style doesn't allow for other players to eat as much. He does well enough with a star guard as a 1st/2nd option but he's never really made any bigs better than they were prior to joining him. We'll see if he's willing to let Davis dominate the ball like he should at his peak.
[QUOTE]3ball lying once again. Mo Willaims had 13.2 pts, 2.8 TRB, 4.9 ASTS, and worse shooting percentages. Pippen had 16.1 pts, 6.4 TRB, 5.2 ASTS. And better percentages.
Conclusion: Pippen is better career-wise.
[B]Beta.[/B] :lol[/QUOTE]
ETHER :roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=ImKobe]
Lebron's ball-dominant playing style doesn't allow for other players to eat as much. He does well enough with a star guard as a 1st/2nd option but he's never really made any bigs better than they were prior to joining him. We'll see if he's willing to let Davis dominate the ball like he should at his peak.[/QUOTE]
Anthony Davis doesn't need to dominate the ball. That's not his game. Sixty two percent of his shots were assisted on this past season and 69% are assisted on for his career. He's not going to dominate the ball for the simple reason that, that isn't his game. Davis is a great star to team up with LeBron for this reason. He's going to get a lot of easy buckets off LeBron's playmaking.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]Anthony Davis doesn't need to dominate the ball. That's not his game. Sixty two percent of his shots were assisted on this past season and 69% are assisted on for his career. He's not going to dominate the ball for the simple reason that, that isn't his game. Davis is a great star to team up with LeBron for this reason. He's going to get a lot of easy buckets off LeBron's playmaking.[/QUOTE]
:applause: nice post. CAn't wait for Lebron alleyoops to AD :bowdown:
[QUOTE=Smoke117]
how big of an impact Pippen was having [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]regardless if he was scoring a lot of points or not.[/COLOR][/B]
[/QUOTE]
MJ and Pippen's excellence as perimeter defenders simply offset their league-worst rim protection, and allowed the Bulls to have the 7th, 4th, and 7th best defenses from 91-93'...
So Pippen wasn't this guy that gave the Bulls the best defense in the league - not even close - him and MJ simply gave the Bulls a good defense to accompany their goat offense (#2 and #5 [U]all-time[/U] team ORtg in 92' and 91')
So you're overrating Pippen's impact... He's Draymond without tomahawk dunks, assuming Dray was 2nd option and getting about 4-5 more ppg... That's what MJ won 6 rings with, and that's why he had to average 4-5 more ppg than everyone in history to do it (woat offensive help)
Btw, you say that it's no biggie that Pippen wasn't a great scorer - so you're saying it's completely reasonable to ask the #1 option to score 4-5 more ppg than everyone in history (10-20 more than his 2nd option for all Finals, aka 1-man show), while still leading his team in assists most playoff runs???? That's doesn't smack of "goat" to you?
[QUOTE=Smoke117]
I sometimes wonder if you actually even watched these Bulls series
[/QUOTE]
You apparently didn't watch back then if you think Pippen was a big factor (bigger than other 2nd options)
I was there at the time, and the Bulls were viewed as a 1-man show
People just forget:
[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=01m32s&v=N6og_pOVi2w[/url]
:facepalm
[QUOTE=Smoke117]
Yawn. You are like a child the way you argue.
[/Quote]
Why, because you can't refute it?
Because Lebron lost with juggernaut help, while MJ only lost with weak help?
I'm making sound arguments with tons of proof... You're whining... That's what's happening here
UPDATE: Akratozile IS BACKKKKK!!!! :eek:
:banana: :dancin :hammertime:
[QUOTE=3ball]
So you're overrating Pippen's impact... He's Draymond without tomahawk dunks[/QUOTE]
buuuullshit. :lol
Scottie Pippen was a top 5 lotto pick in the NBA's golden era.
Draymond green was a second rounder.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]
Then you bring up dumb shit like this. [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]Who cares about the 89 Bulls or an 89 Pippen? [/COLOR][/B]Nobody says he was a star. The fact that you are trying to compare an 89 Pippen to the best Mo Williams shows how much better Pippen was than him when the Bulls were winning championships, though. So good job. That the 09 Cavs underachieved doesn't really say anything in regards to winning with less or more. This is an indictment on the Cavs.
[/QUOTE]
[B]Lebron had the[I][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][/I] #1 SRS team in 2009, but lost to the #4 SRS team
Jordan had the #10 SRS team in 1989, but beat the #1 SRS team..
Heck, MJ pulled a bigger upset than Dwight... :oldlol: [/B]
^^^^^ That's not significant??... MJ fans aren't supposed to bring this up and compare the casts like the big gap between Mo and Pip?... C'mon bruh, you expect me to let you win an argument that you're wrong about?... by NOT bringing up the salient points?... Makes no sense.. why would I do that
The reality is that pre-2011 Lebron had 4 teammates that were superior to 89' Pippen:
[INDENT][I]- all-star Mo
- 2-time all-star Jamison
- steals leader and 22/5/5 first-team defender - 05' Hughes
- 2-time all-star Zydrunas[/I][/INDENT]
Yet MJ won 6 rings and Lebron lost to Dwight in 09', faked an elbow injury during a 2010 meltdown, and then started team-hopping in 11'.
Heck, Lebron had the reigning East all-star center in 06' and 22/5/5 all-defender Hughes - one must assume that MJ would've beaten 89' Detroit with these guys rather than 89' Pip
Ultimately, there's this perception that pre-2011 Lebron was carrying lottery casts to high seeds and the Finals, while MJ was losing with Pip... But in reality, MJ's 85-89' casts are worse than anything Lebron ever had... That's why MJ had to [U]carry[/U] his team to a close series with the 89' champs, while Lebron shoots 35% but still takes the champs 7 in 08'